The Cult Of Barrage

Blkout

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth`
Happens to me nearly every time my ranger joins a group. It's hard for me to believe that you are that fortunate.

But then again, it's possible everyone just assumes you are a Barrage ranger. What other elite is there to use? lol -_- I'll be honest, I bet I can count on ONE HAND how many times I've seen a party even ask if anyone is using Barrage. I don't think it has anything to do with people assuming Rangers are using Barrage. I think most people want other skills from a Ranger such as poison or interrupts. I just don't see the big deal about Barrage, most people could care less one way or the other if you use it. I use it above all other Ranger Elite's but I wouldn't say it's my most valuable skill. My two interrupts are my most valuable skills and they aren't elites at all.

I think some people just like to see people using other skills rather than the popular and effective skills. People may call them cookie cutter builds, but they became popular because they work., Plain and simple.

Blkout

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riotgear
People like Barrage because they figure the "total damage" they're inflicting is through the roof. Except with the new AI, it's generally more important to be able to hammer strays going after your squishies than be able to shoot the garbage lining up around the tank. If things are actually cooperating and lined up around the tank, you don't need barrage, you need a paragon with Blazing Finale. :P I love my Paragon, but I certainly wouldn't say Blazing Finale is better than Barrage.

Blkout

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

[QUOTE=Bloodied Blade] Quote:
Originally Posted by KazeMitsui
i totally agree with you barrage... i was so excited when i first got to cap it from that dude after that mission. Everyone was telling me how great it was and all that saying it was the skill to have and nothing else but i found out... That i rarely ever use that skill the only time i use it was when i farm trolls oh so long ago... but yea i too use Burning Arrow and it helps so much more than barrage.. I just dont really see why people always want B/P cause to me its like a meh NO... but yea here is a screenie and tell me if im still a noob ranger...

take in mind i rarely ever solo cause i only farmed trolls for like 5 skill points... so i could cap elites for title

*snip out pic*

But but but you don't have mending from your monk secondary!

jk there... but ya, I have to agree with some of the above posters. I found barrage rather underwhelming after I first got it. I've tried B/P, got immensely bored of it very fast... I really love Poison Arrow though, and Concussion Shot tends to stay on my bar as well if I know there's going to be a lot of monks in the area (it slaughters the Dolyak Masters in THK...hit their Life Attunement with it and down they go).

I think the main problem is all the misinformation about barrage being such a good skill. It really isn't very good when you notice that you can't use a prep with it (meaning that you usually have to bring Favorable Winds, which makes your faster arrow boost easy to end with a stray fireball). If you could use a preparation with it, then it would be overpowered...without a prep, it's boring. I've had Read the Wind since pre-sear, and frankly it's my favorite prep (I hate missing...and I like fast arrow hits). Stop using Flatbows and Longbows and your arrows won't miss. You don't need a skill to make your arrows hit their target, you need a different type of bow. A Recurve bow rarely misses and is THE bow to have for interrupts as well.

Sheikh Al Stranghi

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

Army of Masks [AoM]

R/

I find Burning arrow + apply poison+ epidemic to work better than barrage in many parts of PvE. Of course then you lose the hard res you get with /mo, but whatever.


Theres more to being a ranger than pressing 1.

Darkpower Alchemist

Darkpower Alchemist

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

NYC

The Circle Of Nine[NINE]

E/N

Long Bows are the prefered bows of PvE, however,recurves/composites have an apparently lower arch in flight,and thus are less likely to be dodged during straffing.

However, longbows are still the preference due to their range given to the shooter. We are "Rangers" afterall,so the name of the game is "Range".

Once again,I will tell everyone that I like Barrage, but I do not condone it being a be all/end all skill of Rangers. Recurve type bows have less range and lower arch while shooting, so that may make the use of Barrage better against running opponents, but that same bow will also work just as well when combating single opponents.

Still an all, don't bring Barrage to fight Shiro.

RTSFirebat

RTSFirebat

The Humanoid Typhoon

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

While I agree that trying to use Barrage against Shiro is kind of pointless, I don't see why many people here seem to not like the skill.

Here's the typical build I tend to run when I'm with Guildies:

Barrage
Distracting Shot
Savage Shot or Lightbringer's Gaze
Throw Dirt
Whirling Defence
Troll Unguent
Conjure Flame
Res Signet/Sunspear Res Signet

I use a Short Bow and a Recurve Bow for this build. First use Conjure Flame, followed up by Barrage and using interrupts when need be. Throw dirt helps stops those pesky warriors and dervish's who get back the front line.

I spend ages getting the skill attibutes right for this.

Anyways I'm happy with the build, means I can do a lot of things, namely damage against a number of targets, interrupting, self-healing and defence.

While Barrge is what I use the most, I do agree that other elites are also good.

Posion arrow for example is one of my fav skills to use in PvP.

Blkout

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheikh Al Stranghi
I find Burning arrow + apply poison+ epidemic to work better than barrage in many parts of PvE. Of course then you lose the hard res you get with /mo, but whatever.


Theres more to being a ranger than pressing 1. Of course there is, but carrying Barrage doesn't mean you only get to use one skill. My skill bar includes Barrage but it also has 7 other skills that I use regularly as well.

Not really sure what you meant by that statement. I've never seen a Barrage ranger only carrying one skill.

Maria The Princess

Maria The Princess

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Aequitas Deis

i use barrage when playing with pugs and when i just want to finish the mission to get it out of my way


but, ya tell me about it......

when beating the mission where u defeat the 2 very bad guys (no spoilers ) i equiped BHA. we had 2 rangers in the team, the other one was a B/P with JI. (i like JI but why the pet?...) anyhow of curse i was picking the ele or the monk that the party didnt get to yet and land a BHA on him. should i even say that the poor thing couldnt get a single spell out? BHA is not only bosses shut down, its CASTERS shut down. a Cleric which your team cant get yet cuz of the swarm of dervishes and wariors runing around makes it harder. dazing and shooting the guy makes it so much easier to the team. same goes for those painful air spikers which stand far from the party damage, but somehow manage to spike non stop.

less spike=less to heal= happy monk and less DP

i was kicked out of a PUG on the final mission to beat last boss in NF (will not spoil the story ) cuz i wasnt runing barrage but i was runing.... poison arrow and interrupts!

how did i dare????

llsektorll

llsektorll

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Toronto, Canada

R/

eh barrage works good in early missions.... later in the game like in torment i find broadhead arrow to just own

Lykan

Lykan

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

StP

R/

I just don't use barrage, not only because its always what people expect you to be running, but its just so damn boring.

rick1027

rick1027

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/R

as for using barrage for everything i never felt it was needed nice in certain places vizunah for one but against shiro i think there better elites to take. i always loved poison arrow myself and haven't tried the burning yet because i haven't used my ranger much yet since nightfall came out and i do remember a time when ranger seemed to be a good addition no matter his build in any mission til we got so many barrage users but this apply to every cookie cutter build as for group members. my only problem is it seems ranger have to many good elites and not enough time and places to use them all but i try

Jeff Highwind

Jeff Highwind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Grenth's Rejects [GR]

R/Mo

I used to run barrage until I got tired of spamming skills. It's a neat skill don't get me wrong, it's just that unless there are mobs the skill is kinda pale in comparison to other skills like say Prepared Shot.

Oh, I think the new Must Have elite will most likely be Burning Arrow. 5s of Burning at 16 marks is great for Caster Hate, plus it's by far the highest damaging arrow attack yet.

Shadis

Shadis

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2006

It really irks me that people "hate" Barrage simply because it's a popular skill. It's effective against Mobs, it's kinda fun to use, and it opens up a lot of other slots that more intricate combinations would otherwise require.

What is the problem with Barrage? Do you people hate it just to be different and special? Seriously, it's a solid skill that no one should complain about someone having on their bar in general PvE.

Maria The Princess

Maria The Princess

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Aequitas Deis

we dont hate barrage, we just know that theres other elites that are way better

yes for easy pve all you need to do is spam it (boring?)

but for more advanced PVE (no, not ToPK or B/P FOW groups) its just not effective anymore. the thing is that its effective when theres 5 rangers spaming barrage, but when theres only 2....?

ya it adds damage to the total, but an interrupter who focuses on the monk, ele or the dervish, with BHA instead of barrage would speed things up way more

Kaida the Heartless

Kaida the Heartless

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_jos
When using Broad Head, you have to think (dazing a warrior or ranger is a wasted shot).

Omg, use broadhead arrow on warriors to stop them from casting mending. Duh. You can't kill a warrior if he is able to cast his mending!







I find Poison Arrow to be more attractive than barrage, regardless of my situation. I mean, now that barbed arrows can be added with it, 7 degeneration across a team is too sexy to pass up, imo!

Sofonisba

Sofonisba

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Tucson, AZ

The Black Hand Gang [BHG] and The Black Helm Gang [BHeG]

Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
I think one of the largest cause of people blindly choosing skills and not knowing if they will work in a mission or not is because they simply don't ask or search around to find out what they will encounter. Part of this may be the fear of being called a noob or being kicked from a group just because they found that it's your first time, but part of it is likely just laziness (since Gwiki has info and advice on almost every mission in GW). I agreed with most of your post, but on this section I must comment.

The first time I went through the game, I didn't read anything ahead of time. (Well, that's not true, I did look up where to find the dervish Acolytes for capping...) I had NO idea where I was going or what I was going to see or who I was going to fight. It was most certainly not laziness, it was... a sense of adventure?

Barrage is a great skill overall. It can work in almost any situation, and if it turns out not to be the most efficient skill to take for a particular mission? Well, I'll remember that for next time; meantime, I still have 7 other slots to contribute to the group with. In this game, having/not having one single skill on your bar does not make or break you.

Arangja

Arangja

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

Namibia, Africa

SCARS MEADOWS [SMS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
We can't let the new blood flounder into idiodicy and become the butt end of bad jokes like the W/Mos that use mending. Help me stop this Cult from festering and becoming the thing of frustration that it is building up to be.
Well here is my opinion on this whole matter. I started a ranger as my 1st ever char and had nobody to help me when I started, so I did each and every quest and mission available to get all the skills and to try them out. That is how I learned what to use and how to use it including diffetrent bows for different situations.

But too often I see young players asking to get run everywhere, and always relying on guildies to get them through missions, if its your 1st character or if you are learning to play a character, well then PLAY the character dont always expect free rides and runs everywhere, doesnt matter if u have a lvl20 Warrior or whatever profesion, the playing styles are different.

The only way we can stop this is if the rangers actually play ther rangers and learn what skills and bows work best in what situations.

Quote: Erm. We probably don't have the same experience of the game. As said before, I find the use of barrage vs Shiro or Abaddon ridiculous. But truely, I *had* big aggroes in Elona, making barrage very effective (so effective most of the time I replaced my MM by an order to maximise the damage of barrage). But I also noticed it depends on the hench/heroes you're take. I never suceeded in making the sole Devona properly tank Hekets for example. With Koss alone, they focus on him and stay packed.

Darkpower Alchemist

Darkpower Alchemist

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

NYC

The Circle Of Nine[NINE]

E/N

I kept Olias as an MM in most cases. Devona was always my 2nd warrior, Koss being first. If you build your minions, and have 2 warriors, barrage seems very unnecessary.

Not useless, but not as needed as in Cantha. I even used Favorable Winds in a build with minions and 3 rangers were we tore through the countryside. However, barrage isn't needed to do these things.

But back to the point of my thread. It's the barrage happy new rangers that don't use any other skill that I want to inform. Their are more skills that are useful than barrage.

rick1027

rick1027

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist
But back to the point of my thread. It's the barrage happy new rangers that don't use any other skill that I want to inform. Their are more skills that are useful than barrage. so very true they get there mindset on one skill or set of skills and dont think then like a lots of other chars and wonder why they arent that good. always thought many wammo and assassin had tendency to do this

speshul k 1207

speshul k 1207

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2006

VA, USA

Real Eyes Realize Real Lies [Tree]

R/

I have actually not gotten Barrage for my ranger yet, and it has gotten me kicked from numerous groups. I have become an excellent interrupter, which is an invaluable skill, but because I don't have Barrage I'm supposedly a useless noob? Imho, the real noobs are the ones that have fallen victim to the Barrage-a-mania that has swept over GW of late.

Sir Mad

Sir Mad

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Moe's Pub

Pigs Can Fly [Pigs]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by speshul k 1207
I have actually not gotten Barrage for my ranger yet, and it has gotten me kicked from numerous groups. I have become an excellent interrupter, which is an invaluable skill, but because I don't have Barrage I'm supposedly a useless noob? Imho, the real noobs are the ones that have fallen victim to the Barrage-a-mania that has swept over GW of late. Believe it or not but in many places interrupters are not needed. I mean: an interrupt is always a bonus nomatter where and I always pack one when I play my ranger. But having a pure interrupter, ie: having a prty member who won't do anything else is most of the time a waste. And if you're not a pure interrupter but carry one or 2 interrupts with other offensive skills when, again, interrupting is a bonus but is not needed, then sorry but you have to suffer the comparison with what other classes can do. A warrior will often outdamage you for example, AND will tank, AND has a better armor (I hate warriors, but this is a fact). Why would they pick a ranger then? With barrage, rangers have the opportunity to do something a warrior can't (to that extent): physical, spammable AoE. In many places (I'm not saying everywhere, probably even not the majority), barrage is the best attack. Asking a ranger to bring barrage to kill Shiro or Abaddon is stupid. But refusing to use it because it's a "noob" skill where it's efficient is as well.

Another reason why PuGs often prefer barragers to another type of ranger is because they know barrage builds are efficient, easy to use. Sorry to say that but half of the rangers who weren't using barrage I partied with had awfull builds. Inseatd of someone spamming Power Shot every 6 secs, I'd rather have someone spamming barrage every 2 secs. When you make a PuG, you don't know who you're going to play with. You don't know if your teammates have a decent build or not. If you know the dude uses barrage, you know he won't be completely inefficient (except, again, in some missions / places where it's completely useless).

XvArchonvX

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Mad
Believe it or not but in many places interrupters are not needed. I mean: an interrupt is always a bonus nomatter where and I always pack one when I play my ranger. But having a pure interrupter, ie: having a prty member who won't do anything else is most of the time a waste. And if you're not a pure interrupter but carry one or 2 interrupts with other offensive skills when, again, interrupting is a bonus but is not needed, then sorry but you have to suffer the comparison with what other classes can do. A warrior will often outdamage you for example, AND will tank, AND has a better armor (I hate warriors, but this is a fact). Why would they pick a ranger then? With barrage, rangers have the opportunity to do something a warrior can't (to that extent): physical, spammable AoE. In many places (I'm not saying everywhere, probably even not the majority), barrage is the best attack. Asking a ranger to bring barrage to kill Shiro or Abaddon is stupid. But refusing to use it because it's a "noob" skill where it's efficient is as well.

Another reason why PuGs often prefer barragers to another type of ranger is because they know barrage builds are efficient, easy to use. Sorry to say that but half of the rangers who weren't using barrage I partied with had awfull builds. Inseatd of someone spamming Power Shot every 6 secs, I'd rather have someone spamming barrage every 2 secs. When you make a PuG, you don't know who you're going to play with. You don't know if your teammates have a decent build or not. If you know the dude uses barrage, you know he won't be completely inefficient (except, again, in some missions / places where it's completely useless). qft.

Interupters can take tremendous pressure off a team in certain areas, such as high damage ele enemy areas, but do next to nothing in most others. This is all the more reason for players to get used to running multiple builds, because what works in one area is crap in another.

Also I agree that having a ranger in a PuG bring barrage is a relatively safe bet most of the time because many people in PuGs will often bring skill sets so bad it will make your head hurt just trying to comprehend such bad choices.

Maria The Princess

Maria The Princess

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Aequitas Deis

ranger is the most versatile class! why dont people use it

twicky_kid

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quite Vulgar [FUN]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Mad
Believe it or not but in many places interrupters are not needed. I mean: an interrupt is always a bonus nomatter where and I always pack one when I play my ranger. But having a pure interrupter, ie: having a prty member who won't do anything else is most of the time a waste. And if you're not a pure interrupter but carry one or 2 interrupts with other offensive skills when, again, interrupting is a bonus but is not needed, then sorry but you have to suffer the comparison with what other classes can do. A warrior will often outdamage you for example, AND will tank, AND has a better armor (I hate warriors, but this is a fact). Why would they pick a ranger then? With barrage, rangers have the opportunity to do something a warrior can't (to that extent): physical, spammable AoE. In many places (I'm not saying everywhere, probably even not the majority), barrage is the best attack. Asking a ranger to bring barrage to kill Shiro or Abaddon is stupid. But refusing to use it because it's a "noob" skill where it's efficient is as well. Interrupters are not a waste at all. Interrupted means less dmg taken by your party. Less dmg taken means more energy for your monks. I have a hero interrupter with magebane shot, d shot, and savage. I have noticed when I do not bring him my party takes more dmg overall.

Btw, wars do not have the best armor in the game. Wars have the best armor vs physical dmg. Majority of dmg in the game is elemental or armor ignoring. Rangers really have the best armor. Any of the +10 def inscriptions will = 80 armor vs physical which is the same amount of armor a war has vs elemental.

The only reason people accept barrage is because it does not trigger the monsters to run like aoe spells do. Barrage and SS filled the void of the aoe ele.

Its much better to kill 1 target quickly repeatedly than to kill the entire group at the same time. If you kill a target he is no longer dealing dmg or healing. Killing with aoe takes more time which means you take more dmg.

Well99

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Nix Guild (NG)

N/E

I completed all 3 games using Barrage most of the time.Yes with Shiro went to poison and have use Broadhead depending on the mission.You use the skill which works for you.After GWP I did Factions with mostly hench and NF strickly Hero/Hench.I also always keep at least 1 interrupt skill.
Bottom line is you use what will get you there.Doesnt matter if it is Barrage or SV..) What ever works for you.

rick1027

rick1027

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/R

my biggest thought on barrage and why you get the people who want to use it all the time is because of where you got it. in prophecies it was one of the later good elites and you already learned how to effectively play a ranger well by the time you got to iron mines but in nightfall and factions you dont spend as much time learning your other skills thus they use barrage as a crutch instead of learning to play rangers as well as they did. goes with in prophecies why i always let rangers into groups in later missions and did extremely well with them then in factions that tendency got less and less since then.

Captain Arne Is PRO

Captain Arne Is PRO

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

We can't let the new blood flounder into idiodicy and become the butt end of bad jokes like the W/Mos that use mending. Help me stop this Cult from festering and becoming the thing of frustration that it is building up to be.
















OH NOES! PROTECT DA YOUNG RANGERS FROM BAD SPELLING AND USING A SPAMMABLE +17 DAMAGE MULTI-[OR SINGLE]-TARGET SKILL!

Thallandor

Thallandor

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Singapore

Seers of Serpents [SoS]

R/

I agree that Barrage is over-rated, while bringing my ranger through NF i hardly used barrage at all and instead experimented with burning arrow and other condition builds which worked wonders in NF and was fun to play as well.

In the OP case, perhaps if they like spamming arrows so much they could have at least brought quickshot with high expertise with a Zealous Shortbow with someone bring broadhead arrow. That at least would perhaps had made things more fun and maybe even kill shiro lol.

I dont like educating others ingame other than fellow guildies, whats the point, you usually end up with responses like: "STFU i am rank 3 u noob!" *continues to flash bambi and ragequits*

/sigh.

Well99

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Nix Guild (NG)

N/E

LOL I also use Troll Unguent all the time to.Is that a bad thing?Dont really need it most of time.Love seeing all those 5s pop on the screen.
So if you can beat quest and missions using Barrage then you shouldn't use it because your not using your other skills?
Someone may titter at you?May compare you to Wammo?That would probably cause me undo stress.I'd have to sell my comp,change my name and move to Germany.Ein Snitzel mit pomme frittes bitter.

A_Muppet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Just to add-I find when I'm not a beast master, I use Melandru's Arrows, Practiced Stance (With Read the wind or choknig gas or somesuch) or Broad Head Arrow for my elite.

I mean, Barrage is a cute all round attack, and there's obvious reasons to like it-it costs sod all with even a 'mere' 9 expertise (2 or 3 energy) and +17 damage when Power Shot does something like 26 for double, it may not be mega powerful, but you can keep using it.

But for a nasty damage spike against enchanted foes (which is every elementalist, monk and dervish, not to mention many warriors), nothing beats Melandru's Arrows with dual shot when you have a 14/13 WS/M build I find.

I usually play beastmaster though, and for that I wuv Ferocious strike. ^.^

Sir Mad

Sir Mad

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Moe's Pub

Pigs Can Fly [Pigs]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Interrupters are not a waste at all. Interrupted means less dmg taken by your party. Less dmg taken means more energy for your monks. I have a hero interrupter with magebane shot, d shot, and savage. I have noticed when I do not bring him my party takes more dmg overall.

Btw, wars do not have the best armor in the game. Wars have the best armor vs physical dmg. Majority of dmg in the game is elemental or armor ignoring. Rangers really have the best armor. Any of the +10 def inscriptions will = 80 armor vs physical which is the same amount of armor a war has vs elemental.

The only reason people accept barrage is because it does not trigger the monsters to run like aoe spells do. Barrage and SS filled the void of the aoe ele.

Its much better to kill 1 target quickly repeatedly than to kill the entire group at the same time. If you kill a target he is no longer dealing dmg or healing. Killing with aoe takes more time which means you take more dmg.
Originally Posted by Blkout
Stop using Flatbows and Longbows and your arrows won't miss. You don't need a skill to make your arrows hit their target, you need a different type of bow. A Recurve bow rarely misses and is THE bow to have for interrupts as well. I regularly still use my flat/longbow but if I do I have "Reading the Winds" on my skillbar, flatbows are awesome because of their refire rate so if u use Read the Winds with it, it never misses because ark is droped down to Recurve ratio and you got the fastest refire rate possible.

Just to finish off, don't get me wrong barrage is a great skill, but in NF I hardly ever used it. I mainly used Poison Arrow, BHA or a combo of Burning Arrow + apply poison, throw barbed arrow in there too and you have 3 degens in 1 go, nothing like having an enemy with 10degen on him

Well thats all from me

Wolydarg

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

I Excentrix I [PuNK]

R/

I've gotten through shiverpeaks and on, factions, and nightfall with barrage on my bar. Against shiro, I didn't have to do anything, I got into groups simply because people needed people to generate damage for sword of storms. PvE is too easy (excluding Doa, finally a fun zone). Just be good with interrupts and you automatically become a valuable asset to the group.

Sophitia Leafblade

Sophitia Leafblade

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Dragon Slayer Guild [DSG]

R/

I dont understand the big hate for barrage, ok so there are plenty of other good elites (well there are now anyways) Barrage may be most effective when used on groups, but due its lost cost, low recharge and increased damage its a great skill to do continious good damage to a target be it single or not single. In phrophecies Barrage was questionably (since im sure others will disagree) the best elite skill Rangers had. There are now alot more good skills, but barrage is still one of the better elites that rangers have. Ok so perhaps using it on Shiro isnt the best use of an Elite but there arnt many ranger elites good Vs him especially if hes already poisened or bleeding (which could be applied by te other members in the team). He cant be interupted either so the best elite to use is a spiking Elite, which Barrage is (although there are better spike skills, it still is one.)

Sophitia Leafblade

Sophitia Leafblade

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Dragon Slayer Guild [DSG]

R/

-opps dual post, soz-

unienaule

unienaule

I dunt even get "Retired"

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

Assuming you have a decent aggroer who can bunch people up well in PvE, we will take a look at using Orders (which I do all the time on Olias) along with Barrage.
Against 4 targets, with a vampiric bow, you do 17*4+5*4+17*4 armor ignoring damage/lifesteal, for a total of 156 damage per Barrage, and that's not counting weapon damage, which would average around 12-14 depending on your level 24 target's class.
Against 6 targers, which, granted, don't usually all stay alive that long, you deal 17*6+5*6+17*6 damage/lifesteal, which adds up to 234 damage per Barrage. Toss in a Winnowing and Favorable Winds and that's an extra 10-60 damage on 1-6 targets. Barrage is really powerful because it multiplies every effect you put on it. Against just one guy it's crappy mainly because it becomes a low energy power shot that you can't use a prep with.

Darkpower Alchemist

Darkpower Alchemist

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

NYC

The Circle Of Nine[NINE]

E/N

And that is my point.Unien has hit the nail on the head perfectly. Barrage,under special circumstances,is an awesome skill,and worth its elite spot in those situations.

But not for general all purpose use.

It's not a skill to use in Elona for almost the entire game while there. The only time I had Barrage was in my fights to get the Avatars while going for my skill hunter title. And honestly,I put it on a hero ranger. Margrid is a Barrage/Trapper, with WD, while I keep mostly to BA+ AP+Savage+Screaming. If I take Jin, making for a 3 ranger squad, then Jin and I would run similar builds and Margrid covers with Barrage in heavy aggro situations.

However, Heavy aggro situations in Elona are not as deadly or happen as often as they happen in Cantha, thus making Barrage not very useful there.
A factions Ranger will use Barrage throughout the continent,except when he gets to Shiro....

Anyway,I was in HA the other day, and ran into a Barrage Ranger. That wasn't bad, but Burning,bleeding and Poison from 2 rangers took him down fast. My point for bringing that up is that if he/she was using a more focused skill, he might have had a better chance than shooting 6 arrows that hit 1 guy.

Like I said, it wasn't bad to have there, but I wouldn't bring it with me,imho.

Sir Mad

Sir Mad

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Moe's Pub

Pigs Can Fly [Pigs]

R/

Quote:
And that is my point.Unien has hit the nail on the head perfectly. Barrage,under special circumstances,is an awesome skill,and worth its elite spot in those situations.

But not for general all purpose use.

It's not a skill to use in Elona for almost the entire game while there. The only time I had Barrage was in my fights to get the Avatars while going for my skill hunter title. And honestly,I put it on a hero ranger. Margrid is a Barrage/Trapper, with WD, while I keep mostly to BA+ AP+Savage+Screaming. If I take Jin, making for a 3 ranger squad, then Jin and I would run similar builds and Margrid covers with Barrage in heavy aggro situations.

However, Heavy aggro situations in Elona are not as deadly or happen as often as they happen in Cantha, thus making Barrage not very useful there.
I never said interrupts are useless. I said 1/ in most of the areas a pure interrupter (a player with only interrupt skills, PS/CG for exmple) is a waste of a slot in the team, and 2/ (since most of the rangers have at least one interrupt in their build) an occasional interrupt is a nice addition, but most of the time it's not needed, as in "it makes it a bit easier but it wouldn't have been a pain without".

Concretely, as we're talking about PvE, what do you interrupt when you go with the sole Savage Shot? Monks spells, ele spells, eventually, troll (when the ranger don't use WD or LR) and heal sig, or you just spam it for a mini-spike. When you use it on a monk, you're likely to catch something despite the short casting time of most of the spells because they spam it. It also means non-instant interrupts of other professions are almost as likely to catch something (I'm refering to knockdowns, or attacks like disrupting chop or dirupting dagger). In the case of ele spells, most of the time they'll use either spammable spells like Stone Daggers (in this case, some comments than for monks spells) or a combinaison of fast casted spells and some devastating spells, that takes ages to cast, and therefore can also be interrupted by a melee class. Yes, rangers are better at that. But no, most of the time, they're not needed - notice the [i] tag - I just mean the mission/quest/whatever won't be harder without them. Again, interrupts are a nice addition to a team, but other classes have other skills that would also benefit the team.

These 2 paragraphs just mean if you go as a PURE interrupter then you gotta show how the team will be better with you than, for example, with an additional damage dealer (after all, often, offense is the best defense), an additional prot or a warder or a rit, etc, who can protect your team against all the attacks of the foes when an interrupter generally shuts down only one foe at a time. I'd bring a CG ranger over all those in Gates of Pain for example, or a BHA ranger to kill the Drought. I wouldn't in most of the other missions.

It also means that if you go as a damage dealer with one interrupt, the interrupt you carry being NOT necessary for your team, you gotta show what you can do better than another class for the team. And you generally can with Barrage. Take off the AoE from Barrage builds, and comapre the DPS of a warrior on a single target and the ranger's. Often the warrior will outdamge him. Or will do as well, with a better armor (and on a side note warriors in PvE rarely bring a hammer so they don't have 80 AL vs elemental attacks but at least 96). And again, I think I'm everything but biaised as I truely hate warriors - that's not my thing. I went through all NF with my ranger with at most one warrior, and most of the time 3 rangers (me + 2 heroes), but that was not a PuG made of random people with random builds - there was a team build.

EDIT - Don't think I'm bashing rangers - I play a ranger since the beta, I have 3 of them at the moment, and this is my favourite class. But you gotta know what rangers can do, and what they can't. And I actually find really sad people throw away a skill that often give a nice advantage in PvE compared to other classes because it's a popular skill, and because some players can't use any other build. I mean... MM is a popular build for necromancers. But does the fact every PuG expect the necro to be a MM make the build inefficient? No. It's sad you can hardly PuG with another build as a necro but still the build is effective.

speshul k 1207

speshul k 1207

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2006

VA, USA

Real Eyes Realize Real Lies [Tree]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Mad
I never said interrupts are useless. I said 1/ in most of the areas a pure interrupter (a player with only interrupt skills, PS/CG for exmple) is a waste of a slot in the team, and 2/ (since most of the rangers have at least one interrupt in their build) an occasional interrupt is a nice addition, but most of the time it's not needed, as in "it makes it a bit easier but it wouldn't have been a pain without".

Concretely, as we're talking about PvE, what do you interrupt when you go with the sole Savage Shot? Monks spells, ele spells, eventually, troll (when the ranger don't use WD or LR) and heal sig, or you just spam it for a mini-spike. When you use it on a monk, you're likely to catch something despite the short casting time of most of the spells because they spam it. It also means non-instant interrupts of other professions are almost as likely to catch something (I'm refering to knockdowns, or attacks like disrupting chop or dirupting dagger). In the case of ele spells, most of the time they'll use either spammable spells like Stone Daggers (in this case, some comments than for monks spells) or a combinaison of fast casted spells and some devastating spells, that takes ages to cast, and therefore can also be interrupted by a melee class. Yes, rangers are better at that. But no, most of the time, they're not needed - notice the [i] tag - I just mean the mission/quest/whatever won't be harder without them. Again, interrupts are a nice addition to a team, but other classes have other skills that would also benefit the team.

These 2 paragraphs just mean if you go as a PURE interrupter then you gotta show how the team will be better with you than, for example, with an additional damage dealer (after all, often, offense is the best defense), an additional prot or a warder or a rit, etc, who can protect your team against all the attacks of the foes when an interrupter generally shuts down only one foe at a time. I'd bring a CG ranger over all those in Gates of Pain for example, or a BHA ranger to kill the Drought. I wouldn't in most of the other missions.

It also means that if you go as a damage dealer with one interrupt, the interrupt you carry being NOT necessary for your team, you gotta show what you can do better than another class for the team. And you generally can with Barrage. Take off the AoE from Barrage builds, and comapre the DPS of a warrior on a single target and the ranger's. Often the warrior will outdamge him. Or will do as well, with a better armor (and on a side note warriors in PvE rarely bring a hammer so they don't have 80 AL vs elemental attacks but at least 96). And again, I think I'm everything but biaised as I truely hate warriors - that's not my thing. I went through all NF with my ranger with at most one warrior, and most of the time 3 rangers (me + 2 heroes), but that was not a PuG made of random people with random builds - there was a team build.

EDIT - Don't think I'm bashing rangers - I play a ranger since the beta, I have 3 of them at the moment, and this is my favourite class. But you gotta know what rangers can do, and what they can't. And I actually find really sad people throw away a skill that often give a nice advantage in PvE compared to other classes because it's a popular skill, and because some players can't use any other build. I mean... MM is a popular build for necromancers. But does the fact every PuG expect the necro to be a MM make the build inefficient? No. It's sad you can hardly PuG with another build as a necro but still the build is effective. I wasn't talking about being a pure interrupter, I realize that that would be completely idiotic, but the fact that I've become good at it is often disregarded by those who are under the "spell" of the B/P build. I'm not going to say it's an unviable build, because it's obviously effective, but a BHA with interrupts is as well.

Maria The Princess

Maria The Princess

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Aequitas Deis

today in DOA im making a trapper group for Veil

Me: "Veil GLF more trappers"
Bob: "please take me in im an experienced trapper"
*inviting Bob*
Bob: "my equiped skills are Barrage, trap 1, trap 2, trap 3 ,pet, pet rez, trall enguent, rebirth"
Me: "why barrage and pet? please take spike trap and drop pet for X spirit and X trap"
Bob: "but i like shooting alot of arrows and the MM needs my pet for minions"

i swear its true

please stop using barrage for EVERY mission there

daky

daky

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

R/

It wasn't until the introduction of tombs that barrage became a true problem. It seems that people think "Gee barrage does wonders to these mobs. It must work great everywhere else also!"

In my experience barrage is good in two places. Tombs and FoW (If you have a good stance tank) Otherwise your right, I would rather stick to a single target.

Sadly I have been kicked from groups for NOT using barrage. I usually laugh and know if I was kicked by some one who thought barrage was the god of all elites. Then I'm surly not missing out on a good group.