Firstly I just want to say I play mutiple classes and each have their strong points. But unfortunately the Assasin class doesn't seem to have enough desireability for people to welcome them into groups and pvp.
My assasin has max luxon armor and all upgrades w/o sacrifising health and I have been playing him for 6 months so i know the class.
To me the class "can" get better armor thru stances n enchantments etc.. but still comes up short when it comes to how attractive they are to game situations.
I feel that we should pool together ideas to see what can be done to improve the way people treat other players who choose to play an assasin.
My first suggestions comming from a EQ background would be these.
1) An Invisibility Stance. In EQ a Rouge ( Assasin ) Has a ability that makes them invisible and increases their movement rate by 50%.
- Doesn't need to be that much of a movement rate for GW, but a Stance of +25 movement rate and invisibility for 30 seconds with a 60 second recast would be very helpful and would make other players pick up a Sin simply for their stealtyness.
2) If Sins kill for money why not give them an ability to steal money from foes they kill ?
3) An Elite ability could be - Shadow Double
- Assasin uses the arts of shadow magic to summon a double of him/herself.
cast 5 seconds
power cost 25
recast 180 seconds
Assasins and group desirablity.
Valin Tin
Thomas.knbk
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Originally Posted by Valin Tin
1) An Invisibility Stance. In EQ a Rouge ( Assasin ) Has a ability that makes them invisible and increases their movement rate by 50%.
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Sins aren't useless at all. All classes have the problem of not being able to get groups in PvP.
Series
The only problem with the assassin is PvE. An assassin is based on the concept of being able to target an individual, eliminate him effectively, and then shrink into the shadows until a new victim is selected. In PvE, with a ton of monsters, this doesn't work as well and makes them undesirable.
shardfenix
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Valin Tin
1) An Invisibility Stance. In EQ a Rouge ( Assasin ) Has a ability that makes them invisible and increases their movement rate by 50%.
- Doesn't need to be that much of a movement rate for GW, but a Stance of +25 movement rate and invisibility for 30 seconds with a 60 second recast would be very helpful and would make other players pick up a Sin simply for their stealtyness. 2) If Sins kill for money why not give them an ability to steal money from foes they kill ? 3) An Elite ability could be - Shadow Double - Assasin uses the arts of shadow magic to summon a double of him/herself. cast 5 seconds power cost 25 recast 180 seconds |
Stemnin
#1 - WoW (rogue)
#2 - Hitman (assassin for hire)
#3 - Diablo 2 (wasn't there a skill to make a copy of yourself, if i'm mistaken, then good ole' Holodukes, Duke Nukem 3D)
I would hate to be anything but a sin if these skills were in the game.
#2 - Hitman (assassin for hire)
#3 - Diablo 2 (wasn't there a skill to make a copy of yourself, if i'm mistaken, then good ole' Holodukes, Duke Nukem 3D)
I would hate to be anything but a sin if these skills were in the game.
TABellis
/signed for Copy Self skill, I like that whole idea.
I like this idea. Remember that as the last post said they do have the shadow/type of invisibilty already, the only thing is that it doesn't really act as if the target can't see you. I would say they revamp or make a new skill that makes it more like they can not see you. Also Shadow Form is, in my opinion and I believe what this is exactly supposed to be, but I feel they need to make this a bit better so that you don't loose so much life, or, no life at all, I would rather see it eat your energy rather than your life.
With this though, I would actually like to seem them make a lessor form of this skill out of Shadow's refuge, giving you a 50-75% change to evade attacks (acting as if you can not be seen) and and 50-75% chance for spells against you fail, no longer giving you any health regen, or health when it ends. They can adjust heart of shadows so the recast time is more like 5-10, instead of 15.
I like this idea. Remember that as the last post said they do have the shadow/type of invisibilty already, the only thing is that it doesn't really act as if the target can't see you. I would say they revamp or make a new skill that makes it more like they can not see you. Also Shadow Form is, in my opinion and I believe what this is exactly supposed to be, but I feel they need to make this a bit better so that you don't loose so much life, or, no life at all, I would rather see it eat your energy rather than your life.
With this though, I would actually like to seem them make a lessor form of this skill out of Shadow's refuge, giving you a 50-75% change to evade attacks (acting as if you can not be seen) and and 50-75% chance for spells against you fail, no longer giving you any health regen, or health when it ends. They can adjust heart of shadows so the recast time is more like 5-10, instead of 15.
Faer
G-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g-gaaaaaaame breakerrrrrrrrrrrr.
Anyone who doesn't see the potential power of an Assassin (limited mostly by the player at the keys) by this point seriously needs to play something simpler. Like, Mario Teaches Typing, or something.
Anyone who doesn't see the potential power of an Assassin (limited mostly by the player at the keys) by this point seriously needs to play something simpler. Like, Mario Teaches Typing, or something.
Hyper Cutter
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Originally Posted by Series
The only problem with the assassin is PvE. An assassin is based on the concept of being able to target an individual, eliminate him effectively, and then shrink into the shadows until a new victim is selected. In PvE, with a ton of monsters, this doesn't work as well and makes them undesirable.
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chicks boy
/signed
I like your'e idea. I thought sins were ninjas? But they are white boy ninjas. but with the help of you're suggestion, sins will be cooler and MIGHT get into groups with that Duplication Copy skill
So what if it isnt reality? Look a wammo using mending! That isn't real either! If wammos uses mending why cant sins use duplicate?
I like your'e idea. I thought sins were ninjas? But they are white boy ninjas. but with the help of you're suggestion, sins will be cooler and MIGHT get into groups with that Duplication Copy skill
So what if it isnt reality? Look a wammo using mending! That isn't real either! If wammos uses mending why cant sins use duplicate?
Series
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Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter
Why they put sins in the same chapter as huge mobs and Afflicted Soul Explosion, I'll never know...
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??Ripskin
I like the mug.. lol.. If that happened I'd just run outside and steal money from people in combat over and over.
/signed lol
/signed lol
HawkofStorms
/notsigned
Sigh, this has been argued to death before. The balanced version of your first suggestion is Shadow Form.
Sigh, this has been argued to death before. The balanced version of your first suggestion is Shadow Form.
Akhilleus
there is no problem with the assassin skillbar; only the people who dont know how to use it.
Queenie
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Originally Posted by Akhilleus
there is no problem with the assassin skillbar; only the people who dont know how to use it.
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Perynne
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Originally Posted by Akhilleus
there is no problem with the assassin skillbar; only the people who dont know how to use it.
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And hey, the class name is assassin, not ninja. I hope to see more assassin oriented skills in the future, rather than more cheap Naruto-copies.
Toutatis
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Originally Posted by Ahkilleus
there is no problem with the assassin skillbar; only the people who dont know how to use it
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Darkobra
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Originally Posted by Queen Christie
Agreed. And its the same with dervishes...everyone say they suck. Personally, I, think they're absolutely rockin'
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Faer
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Originally Posted by Darkobra
A Grenth dervish is the bane of monks in PVP.
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Ever.
freekedoutfish
I have to agree that Sins just arent apealing when you are making a team.
From experience they can do alot of dmg in a short time, but they die too quick to be of any use.
But the suggestion about allowing them to steal money from enemies;
/not signed
Why would anyone allow them to that? thats what drops are for.
Would this gold be shared or would it be completely for the Sin?
Im assume you mean a skill would be created to let them steal the money from foes?
If thats the case, Anet wouldnt do it. They go on about disliking farming and this skill would be in essence, a dedicated farming skill.
If you mean that Sin's would have some inate ability to take gold from a creature 100% of the time, then this makes gold drops redundant.
Sin's would become the farming profession. People would only play them to go out and gain quaranteed gold.
Sorry
/notsigned on that suggestion about stealing gold
/signed on making some improvements though
From experience they can do alot of dmg in a short time, but they die too quick to be of any use.
But the suggestion about allowing them to steal money from enemies;
/not signed
Why would anyone allow them to that? thats what drops are for.
Would this gold be shared or would it be completely for the Sin?
Im assume you mean a skill would be created to let them steal the money from foes?
If thats the case, Anet wouldnt do it. They go on about disliking farming and this skill would be in essence, a dedicated farming skill.
If you mean that Sin's would have some inate ability to take gold from a creature 100% of the time, then this makes gold drops redundant.
Sin's would become the farming profession. People would only play them to go out and gain quaranteed gold.
Sorry
/notsigned on that suggestion about stealing gold
/signed on making some improvements though
lyra_song
/not signed
Are you kidding?
My sin is only a baby (lvl 15) and she can do two sets of combos for massive damage and poof right out.
Sins are nasty nasty vs the right targets.
If you're a sin and you can't get a group either:
A) Join a nice guild thatll accept the class you wanna play
B) Learn how to play a Sin properly.
Are you kidding?
My sin is only a baby (lvl 15) and she can do two sets of combos for massive damage and poof right out.
Sins are nasty nasty vs the right targets.
If you're a sin and you can't get a group either:
A) Join a nice guild thatll accept the class you wanna play
B) Learn how to play a Sin properly.
Helcaraxe
learning how to play your class will not allow you to get a PuG any easier. I've played a mesmer through all 3 campaigns now, and I'm amazed at how many times I am simply refused in PuGs. And when I ask why I always get the same answer "mesmers suck". I actually had one group leader invite me to the group, just to tell me that mesmers sucked and then booted me.
So stop whining assassins... before you, the mesmers had it tough... so grow some balls and learn to play with henchies.
So stop whining assassins... before you, the mesmers had it tough... so grow some balls and learn to play with henchies.
Sniper Corps
OH, i wanted to make a clone skill so bad.
Clone[Elite] 25 Energy, 5 second cast, 120 Recharge
You create 10...15 Clones of yourselves (Dont pass me no lag crap, MM's in AvA before the update would smash through this count) They have your skillbar but deal 0 Dmg in their attacks. They also only last 10...20 seconds. The worse that could do is Confuse people a lot. But the way its set, a assassin team set with this would have to be able to kill quick or they die, and invsting so much into shadow arts for this would make it a good Back up skill. Dunno the logistics yet.
Clone[Elite] 25 Energy, 5 second cast, 120 Recharge
You create 10...15 Clones of yourselves (Dont pass me no lag crap, MM's in AvA before the update would smash through this count) They have your skillbar but deal 0 Dmg in their attacks. They also only last 10...20 seconds. The worse that could do is Confuse people a lot. But the way its set, a assassin team set with this would have to be able to kill quick or they die, and invsting so much into shadow arts for this would make it a good Back up skill. Dunno the logistics yet.
Akhilleus
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Originally Posted by Sniper Corps
OH, i wanted to make a clone skill so bad.
Clone[Elite] 25 Energy, 5 second cast, 120 Recharge You create 10...15 Clones of yourselves (Dont pass me no lag crap, MM's in AvA before the update would smash through this count) They have your skillbar but deal 0 Dmg in their attacks. They also only last 10...20 seconds. The worse that could do is Confuse people a lot. But the way its set, a assassin team set with this would have to be able to kill quick or they die, and invsting so much into shadow arts for this would make it a good Back up skill. Dunno the logistics yet. |
Curse You
/notsigned
*logs on to level 20 Assassin*
*types in /deaths*
*You have died 18 times*
I have nearly completed factions (I stopped because Nightfall came out), and yet I have managed to keep my death count low. I've had little trouble finding a group, and I have specifically tailored my build to work in PvE (Death Blossom ftw).
I don't see any need to buff the assassin class. It's just that people need to learn how to use them.
*logs on to level 20 Assassin*
*types in /deaths*
*You have died 18 times*
I have nearly completed factions (I stopped because Nightfall came out), and yet I have managed to keep my death count low. I've had little trouble finding a group, and I have specifically tailored my build to work in PvE (Death Blossom ftw).
I don't see any need to buff the assassin class. It's just that people need to learn how to use them.
FelixCarter
STEELING TEH MONIEZ?! OMFG I FARM LIEK DAT! ^_^;;;
I'd only think about agreeing to that if:
1. Gold was split between the party.
2. Amount of gold acquired would depend on party size.
3. Stealing gold could not target a human player.
BUT... I don't agree to it anyways. Sowwie.
*Logs on to SinX and types /deaths*
*Number counts 220*
MUWAHAHAHA! I IS UBAR N00B! HEAL PLZ! BUFF PLZ! Wow I've died a lot.
Anyhoo... I think SinXs are fine the way they are. They kill. They kill quite efficiently, too. Hell. My Monk sucks when pitted solo against one. Having my health above 90% when around a SinX means certain death. Plus, I love my little SinX to death the way she is.
I'd only think about agreeing to that if:
1. Gold was split between the party.
2. Amount of gold acquired would depend on party size.
3. Stealing gold could not target a human player.
BUT... I don't agree to it anyways.
Sowwie.*Logs on to SinX and types /deaths*
*Number counts 220*
MUWAHAHAHA! I IS UBAR N00B! HEAL PLZ! BUFF PLZ! Wow I've died a lot.
Anyhoo... I think SinXs are fine the way they are. They kill. They kill quite efficiently, too. Hell. My Monk sucks when pitted solo against one. Having my health above 90% when around a SinX means certain death. Plus, I love my little SinX to death the way she is.
Valin Tin
All good suggestions. My main focus is to get enough people to get on board to help the class, b/c the skill bar is in fact up to the player but the desireability just isn't there.
The Sin profeesion is the single most difficult and risky of them all. I use a build that give a lot of durability. But still, the class put its head on the chopping block always.
Domain of Anguish......dont get me started. The zone is challenging for even the best of guild groups. The entire game is strucktured around ranged combat with the only 3 classes to be close are Wars, Sins, and Dervs.
Sin, we all know that they get spiked almost way too often.
Wars, well they got the armor and the support skills for superior HP ( not a complaint)
Dervs, their main thing is effects of enchantments cast, and enchantments removed.
I don't think that the class was designed for a mass amount of foes. The assasin is best one on one or in groups of assasins where they can spike.
In no situation in the game does the class hold prefference over another. People will allways take a derv over a Sin in my opinion.
This is not a rant of an inexperienced player. I have played my sin faithfully for 8 months (roughtly) and would like to see the class more desireable by other online players.
The Sin profeesion is the single most difficult and risky of them all. I use a build that give a lot of durability. But still, the class put its head on the chopping block always.
Domain of Anguish......dont get me started. The zone is challenging for even the best of guild groups. The entire game is strucktured around ranged combat with the only 3 classes to be close are Wars, Sins, and Dervs.
Sin, we all know that they get spiked almost way too often.
Wars, well they got the armor and the support skills for superior HP ( not a complaint)
Dervs, their main thing is effects of enchantments cast, and enchantments removed.
I don't think that the class was designed for a mass amount of foes. The assasin is best one on one or in groups of assasins where they can spike.
In no situation in the game does the class hold prefference over another. People will allways take a derv over a Sin in my opinion.
This is not a rant of an inexperienced player. I have played my sin faithfully for 8 months (roughtly) and would like to see the class more desireable by other online players.
Tact
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
/not signed
Are you kidding? My sin is only a baby (lvl 15) and she can do two sets of combos for massive damage and poof right out. Sins are nasty nasty vs the right targets. If you're a sin and you can't get a group either: A) Join a nice guild thatll accept the class you wanna play B) Learn how to play a Sin properly. |
Therefore, /not signed
Cow Tale
right now in factions theres hardley anyone, so people let just about anything into the groups =)
legion_rat
whats funny is I have never had a problem getting a group with my sin. As A/R I out kill the warriors most times and out last them as well (gods bless crit barrage) but i can hold my own with daggers as well. the main problem you see with any proff is NO ONE seems to want to self heal anymore. I hate playing my monk and have thought about deleting him because of this. Some retard runs into a pile of 10 or more afflicted (ghial run) and when i cant keep him alive I suck as a monk. I agree with several of the other posters its not just the sins who have problems with grouping. Solution: Henches. I did all but the last few factions missions with just henches. You may not get expert but they are all pretty much doable.
~the Rat~
~the Rat~
Strider77
BahamutKaiser
The ideas are overpowered, and Stealing doesn't belong in a PvP game, but beyond that, the general idea isn't bad.
I want them to improve teleporting, but a combination of invisibility with some skills and movement abilities would increase the surprise factor and offer a level of stealth, and the duplicate image would do the same.
But those are totaly new additions which I don't foresee, they made this class already, and my best suggestion is to improve the use of exsisting skills. It is rather disappointing that nearly everything the omitted from my Shinobi idea for Assassin is exactly what it needs to be interesting and enjoyable, yet Anet cannot even submit to making it feasibly functional for general use.
As many say, if your a talented player you can do just as well with Assassin, with only a few useful builds, in the right situation. But the reality of it is, if it is harder to use, highly situational, and limited in options, it is a weaker class, which has to be compensated with advanced talent to compare, that is an obvious imbalance.
I also noticed the sincere Irony of introducing a poorly armored melee unit with enemies that deal explosive damage upon death, an obvious failure. An attemp to firmly nail their position as a surprise assault leader which is ment to escape readily from harm, only burdening it with a stacked skill list with little to no room for variation and extra functions. Compared to classes which utilize higher armor levels and proficient attributes with alternative skills, their survival is a joke, and obviously, being good at killing enemies is not very outstanding when your even worse at surviving.
Assassin lacks some fundimental and neccessary functions to participate equally in general parties, whether they defend it or not, it isn't accepted because it doesn't meet enough interests to include, and unless improved, will continue to be rejected. It is a problem which will continue being introduced until it is fixed, making lame defenses and denials of their weakness will not satisfy players no matter how they are delivered.
Fix It.
I want them to improve teleporting, but a combination of invisibility with some skills and movement abilities would increase the surprise factor and offer a level of stealth, and the duplicate image would do the same.
But those are totaly new additions which I don't foresee, they made this class already, and my best suggestion is to improve the use of exsisting skills. It is rather disappointing that nearly everything the omitted from my Shinobi idea for Assassin is exactly what it needs to be interesting and enjoyable, yet Anet cannot even submit to making it feasibly functional for general use.
As many say, if your a talented player you can do just as well with Assassin, with only a few useful builds, in the right situation. But the reality of it is, if it is harder to use, highly situational, and limited in options, it is a weaker class, which has to be compensated with advanced talent to compare, that is an obvious imbalance.
I also noticed the sincere Irony of introducing a poorly armored melee unit with enemies that deal explosive damage upon death, an obvious failure. An attemp to firmly nail their position as a surprise assault leader which is ment to escape readily from harm, only burdening it with a stacked skill list with little to no room for variation and extra functions. Compared to classes which utilize higher armor levels and proficient attributes with alternative skills, their survival is a joke, and obviously, being good at killing enemies is not very outstanding when your even worse at surviving.
Assassin lacks some fundimental and neccessary functions to participate equally in general parties, whether they defend it or not, it isn't accepted because it doesn't meet enough interests to include, and unless improved, will continue to be rejected. It is a problem which will continue being introduced until it is fixed, making lame defenses and denials of their weakness will not satisfy players no matter how they are delivered.
Fix It.
stamenflicker
I was in favor of making changes to assn prior to NF. But they did improve the class in my opinion. The primary draw backs were blind and block/evade. With the addition of the Paragon (skills like GftE, and the new Rit skill that keeps you from being blinded, and feigned neutrality-- the assn is a near unstoppable machine now when he's set up right.
Unfortunately, most people still won't pick them up. I don't know what to say about that other than get in a PvE guild.
Consider stacking 2 paragons alternating go for the eyes with all your "if critical" enhancements. You will be a machine.
Unfortunately, most people still won't pick them up. I don't know what to say about that other than get in a PvE guild.
Consider stacking 2 paragons alternating go for the eyes with all your "if critical" enhancements. You will be a machine.
MrTumnus
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#3 - Diablo 2 (wasn't there a skill to make a copy of yourself, if i'm mistaken, then good ole' Holodukes, Duke Nukem 3D) I would hate to be anything but a sin if these skills were in the game. |
In the expansion, the assassins could get a shadow warrior to fight by their side.
Venus was her name
the problem with PvE is that all the classes have massive potential but bad players ruin the name of the classes anet have released in factions and nightfall.
somebody reletivly unskilled at the game will play an assasin becuase it looks cool, and tbh i wouldnt advise a newer player to play assasin..lol (ive played every class to lvl 20+ and i find sin hard so what would a newer player be like?)
assasins are capable of absolutly immense amounts of damage, and although weak defensivly a good player can use the shadow steps for what they were intended.
the nature of a sin means a group only has space for one of them...this is entirely becuase of sins being played wrong and the fact 99% of pug monks are complete morons.
/not signed
sins have some of the most dmg capability in the game
somebody reletivly unskilled at the game will play an assasin becuase it looks cool, and tbh i wouldnt advise a newer player to play assasin..lol (ive played every class to lvl 20+ and i find sin hard so what would a newer player be like?)
assasins are capable of absolutly immense amounts of damage, and although weak defensivly a good player can use the shadow steps for what they were intended.
the nature of a sin means a group only has space for one of them...this is entirely becuase of sins being played wrong and the fact 99% of pug monks are complete morons.
/not signed
sins have some of the most dmg capability in the game
LicensedLuny
/not signed for any of the above
I'm sorry you're having trouble finding groups, but honestly, some people playing sins are absolutely awesome and I'm glad to some of them as friends and on teams with me. Some people playing sins are absolutely horrible. The same can be said of every other profession in this game. Sins did get a bad rap in Factions, since they were so very popular and so often very poorly played. Dervish are having the same problem now, I think. And warriors continue to have the problem to this day.
And I see all sorts of balance issues with the proposed skill changes.
Oh, and Valin ... you're spelling assassin wrong.
Cheers,
Luny
I'm sorry you're having trouble finding groups, but honestly, some people playing sins are absolutely awesome and I'm glad to some of them as friends and on teams with me. Some people playing sins are absolutely horrible. The same can be said of every other profession in this game. Sins did get a bad rap in Factions, since they were so very popular and so often very poorly played. Dervish are having the same problem now, I think. And warriors continue to have the problem to this day.
And I see all sorts of balance issues with the proposed skill changes.
Oh, and Valin ... you're spelling assassin wrong.
Cheers,
Luny
Strider77
This idea isnt needed because
#1- Shadow form
#2- If you cant get into a decent group and/or guild with your assassin, then you havent been playing them right. Not saying go and throw horns of the ox+falling spider build onto your bar, come up with a new build which is not hard, and spread it like propoganda so people will complain about this one, much like the horns of the ox build.
#1- Shadow form
#2- If you cant get into a decent group and/or guild with your assassin, then you havent been playing them right. Not saying go and throw horns of the ox+falling spider build onto your bar, come up with a new build which is not hard, and spread it like propoganda so people will complain about this one, much like the horns of the ox build.
Shadow
I'd be funny to see a swarm of the exact same assassin coming at you.
Strider77
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Originally Posted by Shadow
I'd be funny to see a swarm of the exact same assassin coming at you.
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Deleet
The skills aren't the problem, the players are..
djbartek
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deleet
The skills aren't the problem, the players are..
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Right now I can say that at least 1/2(if not more) Assassin skills are unused due to the fact that either they just suck or ppl have so limited space on Assassins skillbar that they prefer to take Siphon Speed or Expose Defenses.
This skills include: all Critical Strikes Enchantments, Lead attacks, some dual attacks(Exhausting Assault, Nine Tail Strike), basicly whole Deadly Arts(with exceptions of SS and ED), some from Shadow Arts(Shadow Form-too risky to use, Shadow Shroud, Beguiling Haze) and almost all shadowsteps.
The only elites worth using (that I have seen used) are: Dark Apostacy(pre-Nightfall), Moebius Strike, Shadow Prison. And that's all. Right now Assassins can do one thing good:deal massive ammounts of damage. Thay have almost no versatility, thanks to their weak defensive spells(I don't say we should be able to tank, but for God's sake, the only defensive spell worth taking now is Feigned Neutrality!) , ridiculously long recharge time on shadowsteps, and elites which mostly aren't too good(Flashing Blades, Seeping Wound, Locust's Fury, Wastrel's Collapse and so on). These things combined cause that warriors with Shadow Prison are better spikers and are stealing Assassin's job in GvG.
I fully agree with Bahamut Kaiser. I don't know when AN will make some big skill changes again, but we can only hope that they will sit atlast more on Assassin and make some major changes to skills, giving us so much needed versatility.