Reward Fissure Armor for skill over time played

I know this has been brought up before but I've never seen any dev feedback about this so I thought it's time to bring it up again in hopes they might keep it in mind and hopefully do something about it.

Here is what Anet says about Guild Wars:

Clearly, all the current ways of acquiring Fissure armor are fundamentally opposed to this statement. There is no reason that it needs to be that way.

Very simple way to implement "Reward Fissure Armor for skill over time played":

A player who beats all of the UW quests gets a "voucher item" from an NPC at the end.

A player who beats all of the Fissure quests gets a "voucher item" from an NPC at the end.

These two "voucher items" can then be exchanged for a full set of Fissure armor for the player who holds them. You can even customize the "voucher items" if need be so they can't be traded and the Forgemaster will only accept voucher items from the characters they are customized for.

This would reward Fissure Armor for skill over time played as per Guild Wars' mandate and have the added benefits of stopping people from doing illegal things on eBAY, and encouraging parties to play the UW and FoW normally as intended - which they don't do now because currently there is no point in doing so.

Those who want to farm for their Fissure armor could still have the option to do so, so there would be no reason for them to complain.

and then ppl start farming voucher items to make money and again: time>skill

fow armor is for the pve players and farmers, not for everyone. and its not a reward, it gives exactly thesame stats as 1.5k armor

not signed...
if anet put these vouchers in the game then i wreckon it would be too easy to get a set of full fow.

what you could do is the mallyx quest in the domain of anguish and then sell the set of gems for 200k+ at the moment... that would be like getting 1 piece of fow armor.. and the quest does take a lot of skill...

Actually, since the voucher items would be customized and the Forgemaster would only accept vouchers from the characters they are customized for, selling the vouchers would not make any money because no one would buy them since they would be totally useless to the buyer.

Yeah it gives the same stats as 1.5k armor - but what's the point of saying that? I don't see how that has any bearing on this suggestion.

Fissure armor is cosmetic. It's no better mechanically than the4 armor you can buy at Drok's or Kaineng center. Since having a rare skin is a prestige thing, and not a necessity or an advantage, FoW armor should be left alone as a gold sink and a vanity item. However, would it be bad it the quests in UW gave a few ectos as a reward, while the quests in FoW gave out a few shards? It wouldn't stop people from simply farming them, but would give people another option for getting their armor. Nothing extravagant, maybe add 3 ectos or shards as a reward for each quest. Ecto prices would drop, then stabilize as people realized that farming might still be faster, but people who don't WANT to duo or solo can actually get shards/ectos without having to buy them.

Just pointing out one thing...

Wouldn't be able to be used if its not the one customized for you.

---

Honestly, all this is, is a gold sink.

Your average player goes through the game, beats it. They might farm a little, redo particularlly fun stuff, etc. But they (going with casual being average) are not interested in the size of their bank account in leu of their gameplay.

There are other players, whom prioritize their time with trying to amass wealth through trading, farming, or what not. Others "grind" because they believe it shows their dedication/skill, or whatever reason they may choose to do it.

Both types of person will amass a significant amount of resources. ANet wants a place for this to go, as well as a "reward / status symbol" for such persons. Hence the extremely rediculous costs. Hence, it's a gold sink.

While I might sympathize with you, don't get into the habit of thinking it necissary. You don't NEED FoW armor.

Show your skill > time by showing your skill. Leave the grinders their toys.

the answer on:

I don't think it's fair that only farming "exploiters" - I say that not with any malice or bad intention behind the word, but simply because the game is not "intended" to be played by 2 men killing a specific set of monsters - should be able to acquire Fissure armor. I'm not saying what farming "exploiters" are doing is wrong, merely that they should not be put up on a pedestal above all other players as the only ones capable of acquiring Fissure armor. As is currently the case.

Just because it's a vanity item does not equate to it meaning that only farming "exploiters" should be able to get it. I have no idea how that common co-relation in the minds of so many players came into existance, but it's a bad co-relation that should not be respected.

Just because it is a vanity item that does not mean Guild Wars needs to forsake it's "Reward for skill over time played" theme in regards to acquiring it.

if everyone could get it would u still want it? guess not. The armor IS made for the farmers that want to grind for that special prestige armor. If fow armor was another 1.5k armor would u still like it? All this fuss is just cuz some ppl cant get this kinda armor but thats a good thing, cuz fow is meant to be special

FoW armor would be a lot more special if it could be acquired based on skill.

Which the suggestion in the original post would do.

Everyone would not be able to get it with the suggestion in the original post. Everyone would not be capable of beating all of the FoW quests and all of the UW quests. That's some hard some stuff for the "average player" and many of them will never accomplish that. Those that do would be justly rewarded with Fissure armor.

This would fundimentally be doing exactly what Anet did with DoA in NighFall.

Adding a reward which can only be attained by completing the elite missions.

Something which I dont agree with, as it alienates those who dont like hour long missions and quests, or dont have the time to do them.

You would then have people with quests in their lists which they cant complete and thats somewhat annoying.

You would also then have the same situation as you do NF, where people are complaining they cant get a certain reward (Razah in that case) because they HAVE TO complete the elite missions to get them.







(I do agree with the way Obsideon armor is attained though, as you dont need to complete the whole FoW or UW to get it. And I have nothing against the elite missions and hard work.)

Hell no! i torn my ass off to get a single fow set and u want to get it with completing couple of quests ... no!

freekedoutfish:

They could always add the option in without changing anything about the current way to get FoW armor.

Then players have a choice of how to get it:

1. Skill.

or

2. Farming "exploiting" grind.

Hence I don't see why there would be a need to worry about the stuff listed in your post since the current option would still be available.

Time Wise: 3 Weeks of Farming Ecto's > One night of doing all the quests.

I don't think so bud. You maybe get a nice green, but that's it.

Do you have any idea how much that annoy every player who has spent months farming and saving for FoW armor, only to be told that now you have a choice and you can just complete FoW and UW to get it instead.

No one in their right mind would choose to still farm for rare materials, when they can just complete the quests and get tokens.

It would remove the need for Ecto and Shards and remove an important trading material from the game.

We'd end up with more rich playes running around because their wouldnt be anything to spend their money on.

Then chances are, that these tokens would start being traded, but at rediculious prices

Prices which would be out of reach of most players, and again the armor would be unattainable to most.

But this still allienates those who dont want to spend hours, or dont have the time to complete FoW and UW to get the armor.

I know I dont have a spare 4 or 5 hours to do the entire thing in a day.

The way it is, is fine.

At the moment, you can just save up, buy the materials, enter the FoW, do one or two quests and find the armor trader and get your armor crafted.

It may still take a long time to buy or find the materials, but atleast you can take your time doing it.

If you want to award it to players with supposed "skill". Then they should be able to obtain it easily already.

/burnspetition

It wouldn't alienate anyone because there is a choice of how to get it.

The current system is what alienates players. It alienates all players who don't use farming "exploits" from being able to get Fissure armor. And that's not right.

The materials are buyable from the merchant. Expensive maybe, but thats just a case of saving up and being patient.

So to say the armor is unattainable as it is, is wrong because you dont need to farm them.

And once you have the materials, (whether it takes a long time or not) the armor crafter isnt that hard to reach.

The OP'rs idea, is the exact same issue we have with NF and forcing people to do the entire DoA elite missions just to get a relatively useless Ritualist Hero which you cant use because the games over.

Id personally rather save up the materials and gold, and then do one nice run into the FoW for my armor. If I ever choose to.




I know the OP suggested giving a choice, but again thats a pointless idea. It would just frustrate those who have spent month or longer, saving up for the armor.

And it would extremely unfair on those who dont have the time to do the whole of FoW, and need to spend months saving materials up.




And this would incourage leaching. You would end up with players who just stand back and let the others complete the FoW, while they either watch or pretend to be doing stuff. Then they reap the rewards in the form of a token.

The OP'rs idea doesnt show skill at all, just cos you can complete the FoW.

But the current system shows dedication, whether it be buying all the materials or buy farming.





How ever I do think there should be some-kind of reward at the end for doing it. In the form of rare green weapons perhaps or special items, or a title.

lol this is the wha,t the third person not to realize that the tokens would be customized.? Also, for those saying itd be too easy, one could always just change it to needing multiple tokens

"Taking a long time" is a gross understatement. Saying "practically forever" would be far more accurate. Besides, many people don't like having to engage in trade spam migraines, I know I sure don't. Hence farming other stuff in hopes of trade spamming it all away one by one, and praying you don't give yourself an ulcer or brain tumor from all the migraines that having to become a hardcore trade spammer for years will give you - is not a viable solution.

Comparing this suggestion to DoA makes no sense whatsoever. All this suggestion would be doing is adding a way to get Fissure armor based on skill. Those who do not have the time to do it that way would not have to, hence they have no reasonable grounds to complain about it.

Its blatenly unfair on those who have, in the past, actually saved up for and then bought and/or farmed the materials.

The OPers idea of tokens would make it alot easier to achieve and you would see alot more people in FoW armor and it would become devalued.

It just doesnt make sense to turn the way we purchase armor on its head.

Why should the way we get one set of armor be any different to another?

Tokens to buy one set, while every other set is bought using materials and money? or choose how to purchase it?

Their are countless other 15k armors in the game if people dont want to grind or save up for Obsideon armor.

Obsideon armor is intended to be hard to get, either through farming or saving up.

If we introduced Tokens, then attaining the armor would be no more difficult then completing one of the campaigns and buying end-game armor.

And this is exactly the same as the DoA and Razah thing. Because people are AGAIN complaining about having to actually grind for things and work for them.

Except Razah I agree about, and this I dont.

Im not saying the FoW isnt hard and we shouldnt recieve a reward for completing it.

But it should be in the form of a weapon or perhaps some form of lesser FoW armor which doesnt have Ecto or Shards in it.

But the whole idea of "buying armor with tokens" is intended for hero armor, not our armor.

If we start changing that now, then next we know, Anet will let us buy all armor with tokens.

I still fail to see how farming is an "exploit."

It is now very stupid to even try doing most 2 man farm builds, as they will take much loner than it is worth.

However, the trapping build for UW is far from an exploit. It's using an ability given to rangers to your advantage. It just so happens that if you put up EW and QZ 3 or more rangers can place a huge number of traps in one area.

Farming is far from an exploit, it's more of a challenge. The challenge? To come up with a build that can kill enemies with as few allies as possible, as well as properly executing the build.

So I don't really see why we need to change how you get Obsidian Armour (that's its real name), since it's intended as a gold sink and basically a "waste" of time.

New service thread.

We gonna complete FoW and UW for you.

for only 200k you will have the fissure armor yay!

you want just a easy way to get a FoW

Gw is a game who reward skill over time played. its intended if you have more skill then another player you will be a better player.

unless you think a FoW possesor is a better player ...

/not signed

FOW does not = skill ...

why did you even think it does ?

What is skill?

Farming UW 24/7 for one month is not skill. It's a foolproof, guaranteed way to earn it in sweat.

How about doing some trades, some chest runs, running some people through droks, playing the resource market, ...

Yes, it's about skill. But it takes time to learn skill. Just like you cannot go into GvG on first day of playing and expect to win. Yet, you can play GvG for score, and over time, you will get enough.

Now, consider this. If it were truly grind based, you'd need to grind for 450 hours. No less, possibly a bit more. And still, I can go into DoA, do a few foundry runs, and sell the gems for well over 100k each (only need 10-12 of them to cover new FoW set). I also open a few chests and pick up a gloom shield or two. And voila - skill earns me a new set of FoW. And such opportunities keep showing up.

Yes, skill > time.

Of course, this complaint isn't really about skill, it's about the fact that it takes effort. Completing quests is grind. There is no, and absolutely no way to get FoW, rather than grind the same quests over and over. That - is grind.

And just like everything, skill can, in absense of limited time, be replaced by time. In GvG, it cannot be. Once you're in the match, the opponent is coming after you in 7.5 seconds to mow you down. There, you cannot substitute the two.

So if you truly want skill over time, add a 1-per-year timed group quest, that will choose the 10 best of the best to obtain the FoW. That - is true gameplay skill.

This is just like old saying: A million monkeys hitting keys on a typewriter will, given enough time, write complete works of Shakespeare. Are they skilled? Was Shakespeare unskilled? Does literature reward time > skill? No. Shakespeare was skilled because he did all of that in a lifetime. Monkeys will take an eternity to do the same.

So yes, FoW is about skill. But not about button mashing skill, but about the skill to acomplish something in minimum ammount of time, with farming being the absolutely worst possible way. But at least there is a way for even "unskilled" to acomplish that. Limiting it to skill only would mean, that most wouldn't get it. Ever.

Just look at DoA. That place is about skill. Or is it? Many would like to make you believe it's not. Then why don't they complete it?

Ok Sherlock, you forgot about one of the "skills" you mentioned


-eBay-

FoW is for the people who really want to grind. It's not required to win the game and doesn't give any advantages either.

/notsigned

FoW requires skill and loads of time (except for the ebayers), Its for those who spend allot of time trading, farming or for those who are really lucky with some drops. Giving people vouchers when completing UW or FoW (not much skill required to do that) is in one word ridiculous.

/100%notsigned

Obviously doing all the quests just once for a complete set would make it FAR too easy.

I agree with the OP's principle, though. There should be more reward for questing and less for farming. Pretty much all high-end content relased prior to Factions has this problem - Glint quests, SF, FoW, and UW are all full of quests that everyone ignores because the rewards are terrible.

A-net has done a much better job recently, but I don't hold out much hope for them changing the old stuff.

I don't think it does - that's the problem.

This suggestion aims to fix that problem by giving an option for FoW to be acquired based on skill, as there should be based on Guild Wars' stated theme that all current ways of FoW acquisition needlessly violate.

Sounds like someone doesn't want to farm

FoW armor=Grind armor, nothing more. Yes, it looks very nice, but you can kill me as easily as any other player if you have the right skills. A person wearing a set of 1.5k scars will last just as long as I will.

I don't have a 5 hour streak to do something. I did, however, have lots of little segments of time in which I could farm.

No. You do not have FoW armor, you do not understand the grind it takes to get a set, let alone a piece. And then you must get to the forgemaster, which is hard enough. Anet will NOT change this, because FoW armor will become an "everybody gets one at the end" item, like the endgame greens. And we know how common THOSE are.

Like the idea of rewarding skill - don't like the execution. Like many before me have said, FoW armour is rewarding those with the dedication to acquire it. So, whereas I like the idea of rewarding skill - e.g. end game greens (which we have ) I don't like the idea of de-valuing the dedication needed for FoW.

/notsigned, sorry.

hi all
/signed

But give me back my ectos, shards and time that i spend on getting my fow armour...

I like the idea of people having to save up to buy it. But, I don't think the forge master quest is hard enough to justify it as being "elite" armor. The only thing that's hard about getting the FoW armor is getting the materials.

Hell, you can even make it to the Forge Master with 2 real players and a party full of Heroes now pretty easily (I've done it while farming shards/chests).

Personally, I don't think the FoW armor looks cool enough (on any profession) to justify spending so much time trying to acquire it, but that's just my opinion. I'd much rather just beat NF and get Primeval armor for all my characters before worrying about Obsidian.

FoW armor is, in most cases, no longer the most attractive armor. I'll never understand why people still want that trash, but to each his own.

FYI: PvE needs 0 skill for regular content (I'll let people bitch about player skill and "elite" areas somewhere else), so you can throw out that quote. Anet has taken the normal way about doing PvE: give idiots something to grind away their life on. Let them be happy knowing they spent countless hours neglecting important things to grind FoW armor; stop rocking their boat!

Like others, the concept is ok, but it isn't very fair to people who have this armor... I don't and I doubt I will ever play enough PvE to get this armor... but for those who do, they deserve the money sink I suppose. MAYBE give your reward to unlock an all new type of armor that people can't get with gold and stuff? A special armor for people who beat a series of cross-continent quests which makes them travel throughout the entire world of Guild Wars and do all sorts of things. It would be almost like a mini-campaign, taking players from Tyria to Elona to Cantha to the Underworld to DoA to etc, spanning the ENTIRE GAME, with the reward of a special, unique, one of a kind elite armor. THAT would be cool IMO, and a DEFINITE reward of skill.

I spent a full year playing before I had saved enough cash/ectos/shards to buy my FOW armor.

It was not about farming, if you think it takes no skill to battle in FOW or UW and get the drops then youve got some extreme build id like to know about.

Now im not talking about 55ing or solo rits, I took 8 people down into each so many times I can't even guess a number. With your idea I'd have had the armor after our 4th or 5th trip.....

FOW armor was meant to be a LONG term goal for players. It was never intended to create farming. There will always be people that find and abuse exploites in the game, this would change nothing.

I could see a guild getting together and draging an afk player through the quests to get his voucher and charging him 100k.

So much for your skill based armor.....

*mutters to self*Why is it that people must constantly diss FoW armor because they don't have it... bah*/endmutter*

and to Kamikazechicken: Don't effing touch my boat :P

FoW and Underworld are not hard enough to warrant that kind of quest reward, as a few people have said. Sure, they were hard at the beginning, but now you can basically solo them, just as The Deep is now being soloed by countless W/E. Eventually, i'm sure that DoA will become easy, because someone will come up with a concrete method of beating it.

Obsidian Armor is a vanity armor. it is a money sink. it is a LONG TERM goal.

It's not a reward, if anything, its a friggin curse.

/notsigned

That's pretty extreme don't ya think, having to play for a year to get the best set of armor (in terms of looks)?

Plus what about players who want Fissure armor for more than one character, they are supposed to play for 2 or 3 years just to get it? Also very extreme. Especially for a game that is not supposed to be about grind.

As far as Guilds dragging AFK players through the game to get the voucher, yes that would surely happen. That's not a reason enough to discredit the suggestion though. Because all aspects of the game can be abused in similiar ways, as you said. On the whole, it's still a good idea regardless of possible ways to abuse it. Ways to abuse the suggestion should not be a determining factor in implementing it or not, otherwise nothing would ever get implemented and there would be no game to play.