Rago's Staff: Rubbish or not? I say it is compard to....

I personally say that Rago's staff statistics are rubbish compared to (for instance) my fire wand and focus item.

Both of which can be attained from collectors with identical stats, but mine happen to be the greens version.

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Rago's staff stats:

Energy +10
Fire damage: 11-22 (req. 9 Fire Magic)
Halves casting time of Fire Magic spells (Chance: 20%)
Halves skill recharge of spells (Chance: 20%)
Energy +5
Enchantments last 20% longer

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My combination of Golden Boar Scepter and Tarlok's Flagon:

Golden Boar Scepter

Fire damage* 11-22 (Requires 9 Fire Magic)
Halves skill recharge of fire magic spells (Chance: 20%)
Energy +5 (while Health is above 50%)

Tarlok's Flagon

Energy +12 (req. 9 Energy Storage)
Energy +15
Energy regeneration -1
Health +30

Combined result

Fire damage 11-22 (Req 9 fire magic)
Halves skill recharge of fire magic (chance: 20%)
Energy (+27)-(+32)
Energy regen -1
Health +30

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You loose:

Halves casting time of Fire Magic spells (Chance: 20%)
Enchantments last 20% longer

Something I feel isnt hugely important if you use the right spells.

And have to endure:

Energy regen -1

Again, not hugely important if you have energy management.

You gain alot of energy and extra health which Is just a good thing

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Now im not un-experienced as an elemental having got him through all 3 campaigns with KOABD and being at 2 million experience.

I know that doesnt say much, but it does show ive been around a while and i have experiemented with different builds and weapons.

I feel the extra energy and health is a given.

I currently have my energy up to 112+ and hp at 515.

Which is quite impressive for an elemental. Something I wouldnt be able to do if I was using Rago's. Yes the -1 regen can be annoying at times, but its not crippling. And you hardly notice faster recharge and casting times.

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I make this thread just to find opinions, because I was in one of the major capitals and saw a character spamming WTB Ragos for 60k.

I took it upon myself to wisp that person to offer advice and said its not worth it.

The responce from them was to spend 10 minutes spamming me with "noob".

I didnt respond except to tell him why I thought what I did and that I was just offering advice.

He continued.

He then continued to spam WTB in that city for ages.

Now this same person made the brag that he supposedly had 5 million experience, in between the noob spamming. I find it strange that a 5 million experienced player would choose a nice skin over blatenly improved stats.

An elemental is dependant on energy more then anything, and more health goes a long way.

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My conclusion is that alot of players choose to play as elementals and dont put any thought into it and go for the supposedly best weapon they know of.

They dont think elementals take alot of work and are just dmg dealers and thick.

So they want something to look nice with.

So opinions please?

Which combination would you choose?

I do admit the staff has a nice skin... but so does my green combination. So skin isnt a huge agruement if youre being constructive about it.

Ideas?

Before talking about rubish, what kind of build are you running?

PvP? PvE? If so what, echo nuker? SF spammer? Something else?

20% enchant is nice for dual attunements.
+30? energy but -1 pip? A bit flaky on e-management. As SF spammer you shouldn't have problems unless your enchants get stripped. But loss of 1 pip will hurt you much more than those 30 energy.

Dual, triple, quad nuker? Mostly waste of skills. You'll need a bip here anyway, but where would you ever need so many nukes? Even echo is mostly unneeded.

For a SF/MS spammer, even for DoA, I usually run around 70-75 energy, some points in earth for wards, combined with GoLE and I have yet to run out of energy, even with reduced gain from GG due to running only 14 or 15 fire and without any help from BiP.

The greatest mistake too many make is thinking that large energy pool will solve all problems with eles. E-management > large pool.

But that said, I don't know what kind of build you're running. If it's exhaustion heavy, or you have a dedicated BiP on you, then it'll obviously work. But other than that, it's somewhat of an unjustified claim, since an item doesn't define build, it's the other way round.

Energy regen -1 is absolute crap for general use, keeping it out all the time is just screweing your energy.
Ragos isnt perfect, but its good for certain builds, the enchanting mod is really useful for attunes, if you want the best gear for a fire nuker take 20/20 wand and 20/20 offhand as your default kit that way you will get a lot more damage out, have a 20% enchanting item like ragos to switch to while using attunes then have a high HP/AL set to change to when your under attack.

Most of the value of Rago's Staff is due to its rarity, pure and simple.

Device value = intrinsic value + lust factor

The intrinsic value of Rago's Staff is probably about 10k, given what it would take to get the collector's staff and mod it properly. The rest of the value is due to the difficulty in attaining the staff.

I have killed Rago at least 500 times, and his staff has dropped for me exactly twice. This is about what you would expect, given a 2% green drop rate and the fact that Rago can drop one of three different items. In fact, I think I've only seen it drop about 10 time amongst all of the people in all of the groups I've been in.

Rago's staff was also the first green fire staff, and at one time was worth north of 160k. This was back in the day when a perfect staff was very difficult to come by (and perfect mods were also very rare). If you have 2 mill exp, then you probably fondly remember those times.

Rago's is, and always will be, worth more than just the intrinsic value of the weapon due to it's rarity and the bragging rights associated with it. In fact, I would hazard that Rago's would command at least 25% more than an identical nightfalls green that would be more easily farmed.

Well I find my collectors fire staff (good skin) with 20/20, energy+5 and armor+5, is close to ragos and a fraction of the price.

Its staggering that even when I post an non-aggressive post, which was purely asking opinions, someone will still resort to saying "your talking rubbish" in such a direct manor.

My build varies actually. Mostly its nuker, but at times it varies and not in any particular way.

Depends if I need to protect against being nocked over, interupted, turn fire dmg into cold dmg, protect my team with wards, cast degen etc etc etc.

I dont put alot of faith in pre-determined builds. I tend to use what ever I feel works, and its usually a combination.

Eitherway, I can honestly say, from my experience, that the huge energy pool is an advantage and I dont feel any huge impacts from loosing 1 point in regen.

Which goes for all builds ive ever used.

But I also getting at the fact that people seem to have this inate reaction of "what are you on about, you noob, saying Rago's staff is crap, noob noob noob", when you even dare insult it.

Which is kind of what you just did. Even if it was unintentional.

Im sure Rago's staff does help some elemental builds, but I <b>personally</b> dont see the advantage it has over what I use accross the board.

I personally find mine better, and I was just asking why others/some seem so defensive or arrogant when you try to share that view.

it also depends on the skin.

I'll reiterate what others have said too. If you have energy management, +15 -1 is completely useless to you. Go for +AL or 20% hsr/hct or something

Actually, in his post he was just referring to the title of your post, which is "Rago's Staff: Rubbish or Not?". I doubt that he considered your argument rubbish, and found his argument well-considered and insightful.

So while I agree that people tend to flame quickly around here, I don't think that was Antheus' intent.

Meh. Ragos Staff = best staff skin in the game.

I'll take 20% enchants over any one hander combos. It is the best mod in the game. also, -1 regen weps are just plain riduculous. There only use is weapon swapping where you can swap to a +30 hp -2 regen set if you need a quick boost in energy for an emergency.

And since your bragging you think your an experienced elementalist and think your right... Im at 2 million exp on my elly and havent even started nightfall yet. Oh and am rank 6. If someone wants to buy a ragos staff for 60k then let them. I have all the tyrian elly greens, most of them farmed including ragos staff, 15k canthan armour, and am now saving for a tripple white dye mix on each piece because it looks nice.

I think less then 10% of the 'experienced' players that play elem would prefer a -1 energy regen over a ragos staff.

And, erm, yep if you dont have a use for 20% enchant mods at 2 mill exp on an elly, then just what are you playing? Ever used attunements? Ether prodigy? Ether renewal solo earth build? <--- last one demands a 20% enchant mod and its the best PVE elly build going if you solo farm.

Edit - Oh and antheus's post wasnt flaming. Neither is this.

4 pips > 3 pips.

I'd take the staff.

Your probably right, in which case I apologise to him/her and yourself.

Must be this time of year making me grouchy :P

From thread title:

Rago's Staff: Rubbish or not? I say it is compard to....

My response:

Before talking about rubish, what kind of build are you running?

Nothing in GW is absolute. The rest of my post was making assertions towards general elementalist issues, and my experiences.

Unfortunately, your post was much more direct than mine, that was merely trying to get some justification for your claims, rather than simply "Rago's staff is rubish" in 500 words. The reason for this was, that despite a very long post, there was nothing to justify your statement. Why is it better. -1 energy regen is a huge sacrifice that in is generally frowned upon for everything, with possible exception of monk under pressure who does need +30 energy, or MM who uses it to even out the spike energy gains. Even in those cases, sacrificing -1 energy regen is used only for short periods of times, under very risky strategies.

So I was only trying to expect some really hard evidence, possibly with numbers, that would justify such drastic decision.

Are you playing with heroes/henchies, with PUGs or guild groups. Which areas are you running, which builds? How's your pace, do you have a BiP with you or Paragon battery? Do you prefer exhaustion, high-energy or spammable spells? How do you manage energy? How do you handle enchant stripping, interrupts?

All of these are cruicial to justify such insane sacrifice for perhaps the most energy intesive class.

Rago's is not ultimate for eles. Nothing is. But with the general perception of what an elementalist must be in PvE PUGs, it proves to be optimal. It nicely emphasizes on all required bonuses, while having no conditional requirements.

Rago's is versatile, which is perhaps the most important point. -1 energy regen, without knowing what kind of other e-management you run is simply too drastic. Just like with all classes, managing the energy wins over large pool every single time. How do you solve this in your setups? This is the most important question here.

As an example of such little detail that matter. SF lasts 7 seconds. First one does no damage, but puts burning. Next one, following GG will cause damage. Third one will fire just the very moment after burning ends. So without a maximized recharge/casting bonus, you will be doing 1 AoE hit less. And that can be as much as 300-600 damage total. And that is a big deal.

do what you want... if you like using a worse set up, then do it.

As a primary ele with almost 4 million XP, Ragos is great for some fire builds (enchant specific), and maybe not the best for others. I tend to switch btwn weaps all the time during PVE play depending on what I am doing. After more than a year of playing I finally just bought a Rago Staff for 60k - and I already had the collector staff modded to the same stats for the last 9 months or so. I looked at this purchase as a treat that I have worked hard to earn given the extreme difficulty in farming this specific item and getting it to drop (farming bores me anyway). I like the weapon combo you use as well tho... might be useful in a few situations, so I think I will give it a try sometime

-1 nrgy regen sux, and 20% enchant for ele owns for dual attunes, and others enchants u might be using, plus the skin is nice to

People talking about the Rago' staff skin, you can go to the desolation and farm there. The monsters drop the staff with the same skin as Rago's staff. I think it is called "jeweled Staff." It was fire Req, wish i took a screen shot to show you all. I have gotten it a few times but never gold or even close to perfect.

20/20 Wand + 20/20 Focus > Anything

That's the general jist for Elementalists.

Now you can get a 20/20/20/20 staff. Upside: one of those 20's is to all spells. Downside: you lose out on 2 energy. You can figure out from there which is better

You dont say. You get them in Fow too, however, I have done fow hundreds of times and never even had a blue jeweled staff.

Jeveled staffs are the rarest staff in the game, at least for decent stats, not just the skin.

where are the collecters versions of that? Or, how much would it cost to get the same setup? Ive been trying to buy inscriptions to make those stats on some stuff i have lol.

Shield and Spear ftw.

A wand or weapon plus an offhand is always superior to staff, the only exceptions being the inherent 20% hsr of all skills mod of a staff and a +20 energy staff. Unless you need those two things specifically, a wand or weapon and offhand combo is going to be better than a staff. And weapons are still better than wands for most uses with their conditionless +5 energy and +hp or enchant mods. Crazy, but that's how it is.

While being able to ping your 112 energy may give you some satisfaction, I truly think you are sacrificing something major(1 pip of energy return). I too had an ele with well over 2 mil, but the Ragos set up, at the time, was/were the best thing going. The extra 12-14 energy is in no way even close to being worth the -1 regen, and the 30 extra hitpoints, come on. The times 30 HP would have made a difference? I think I can safely say , zero.
And to be totally truthful, I didnt attain the Ragos full set because of the way it looks, or becasue I can ping it, something I NEVER do(its cheesy unless someone asks), I bought the full set for 100k because it was the best setup for a fire ele.

While this may be true for most casters, Ele's benefit more from faster cast times/recharges than more energy. That said, IMO, the new staff layout (with the ability to add Adept and Memory upgrades) is by far better. Like I said, you lose 2 energy for the ability to have half recharge 20% on all spells. You really need that 2 energy that bad, get an attunement rune.

Well ive obviously named the weapons and their stats which I use. Look up the collectors who give those weapons on guildwiki.net. Its how I found them originally.

As for armor + runes + insignias:

This is using my end game primevil Elonian armor with insignias (60k + materials).

(Prices as shown at time I wrote)

Flame's eye:
Fire magic+1 (built in)
superiour vigor rune (health+50). (28,000g)

Robes:
radiant insignia (health+15) (400g)
rune of recovery. (100g)

Gloves:
Supiour energy storage rune (energy storage+3, -75 hp) (100g)

Legs:
radiant insignia (health+10) (400g)
rune of restoration. (100g)

Boots:
radiant insignia (health+5) (400g)
rune of purity or minor rune of fire (+1). (100g each)

Skill points (at this moment)

Energy storage - 15 points (20)
Fire magic - 13 points (20)
Inspiration - 3 points (3)


Result

Health = 515
Energy = 108 -112

Meteor shower is up to 105 now.
Elemental attunement is up to 55 seconds.
Aura of restoration is up to 400%.

No doubt someone will look at that and critise it. But I hope that helps with what you asked.

My other armors have supriour fire in them.



Having read most of those posts, if I ever get gold fo 60k I might invest in Rago's staff to try it out.

You're an ele. You already have a massive energy pool, definitely large enough for any opening volley of spells. By the time the extra 15 energy would matter, the extra energy regen you have on the staff would have gained you 15 energy. +energy -regen weapons should be used as emergency energy pools, NOT primary weapon sets. It's just inefficient.
Not to mention, as far as energy management is concerned, the 20% longer enchants definitely helps an ele with an attunement or two. 12 more seconds on an enchant lets you get in another spell or two before you have to spend more energy reapplying them.

To each his own, but I've always been a staff man myself. *shrug*

I have though about this issue as well with the new items/inscription system in Nightfall as to maximize energy pool and find some interesting things to note.
___________________________________________

Highest energy possible from a staff without penalty:

10(innate) +5(staff head) +5(prefix) = +20en.

Highest energy possible from a wand+offhand without penalty:

12(focus innate) + +5^50(wand) = +17en.
___________________________________________

Highest energy possible from a staff with penalty:

10(innate) +5(staff head) +15/-1(prefix) = +30en -1 en pip.

Highest energy possible from a wand+offhand with penalty:

12(focus innate)+15/-1(focus prefix) + +5^50(wand) = +32en -1 en pip.

or

12(focus innate)+15/-1(focus prefix) + +15/-1(wand) = +42en -2 en pip.
___________________________________________

Its a trade off for elementalist in extreme cases when their en is drained to resort to switching for more energy.

However, a larger energy pool even with penatly is very useful for a Death necro when dealing with minons with high stats in Soul Reaping(switching to high en set in combat summoning and return to normal set for maintance and en regen) and of course not forgetting our touch rangers.

I saw this and my reaction was this:

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I also mainly play an ele and have similar experience as the op, my current setup is a collectors fire wand, 20% HCT +5energy^50 and the kindlerock (20% HSR 20% +1 fire magic). I use the kindlerock only as a subsitute for my preferred 20% HSR +30hp offhand which I have been yet to find (although i havent actively looked since before nf). I dont really see the beauty in rago's staff's skin.

I do always carry a galigords staff around with me (which I think has close to perfect stats for a earth ele).

I really wish people wuold stop going "go look on wiki!" everywhere i turn... ouit of the near hundred times ive been on i have yet to have wiki contain what i need and stay online long enough so that i can find it...

Just a comment on this.

Running at 14 fire for more energy is a poor tradeoff.

The reason for this is reduced damage. Consider this. MS loses 14 damage on each hit compared to 16 fire, 3 hits total comes out to 42 damage per each mob.

Now, assuming you were to run minor vs. sup energy storage, that makes a difference of 6 points at the expense of 75 health.

Granted, you have a large energy pool, but is it put to good use?

Extra 6 points of energy don't allow you to use any spell that would fill the missing damage. Even worse, when used with Searing Flames and Glowing Gaze, you lose 2 points of energy return.

Consider this (single fire attunement, 16 fire):
- Searing flames - 15 + 6
- Glowing gaze -5 + 10 + 2
- Net: -2

Same situation but 14 fire brings in net return of -15+6-5+8 = -4 energy

Assuming that's all you're spamming, you'll usually go with something like SF,GG,SF,SF,GG,SF,SF. Total time is aproximately 10 seconds.

During this time you lost net of -31 energy. During this time you also gained 13 energy from regen, leaving you at -18 energy.

Comparing this to the high energy setup, the casting will leave you at -35. Reduced regen during this time will return additional 10 energy, leaving you at -25 energy.

But at the same time, due to reduced fire magic, you also did 14 less damage for each target hit by SF and 6 less damage from GG.

This does apply only to the ever popular SF spam, but it goes to show that energy isn't really the king, but it all comes down to how you use it. If you throw in a glyph of lesser energy, then in case of 4 regen, the net energy loss after the cycle comes down to -3, which, combined with casting time of GoLE leaves you at full energy.

Meteor storm doesn't fit well into this calculation, since it's too slow and requires the echo/glyph which makes it somewhat gimmicky. Not useless, just a little overused, especially these days, when better alternatives exist.

While I'm not criticizing your build or setup, I'm merely trying to demonstrate that ele is not all about energy pool. This is also the reason why under certain situations, SF is considered overpowered. It gives essentially 100% return on energy while dealing almost same damage as MS minus the KD, but with burning.

This is also why 20/20 mods make for such good choice these days. Eles, as long as they don't get countered with enchant removal or e-denial, simply don't run out of energy, even when running at laughably small energy pools.

I would use 15/-1 30/-2 sets for exhaustion management, or possibly in certain e-denial conditions. But I'll still consider them sub-par in normal situations, since, at least as far as fire magic goes, there are currently adequate e-management options for energy pool not to be a problem.

I love my ele. I've made myself a staff exactly the same as Rago's, just because I feel that the 20% enchanting really helps with my elemental attunement, so that's what I think would be best for me. Now your set up is great, BUT I don't like the idea of having only 3 energy regen. It just seems a little harsh unless you have a constant blood ritual on you.

axe/sword/spear [if needing enchants or armor] / wand + offhand > staff.

staffs [staves?] worthless compared to sword / offhand possibilities.

Again, yes, if (and only if) energy is the primary issue. For just about every caster, that is the cream setup. For Ele, energy is not a big issue. Casting and Recharge speeds are the big issue, therefore the staff is (IMO) the best option.

Over all 3 chapters using both attunements I have no energy issues 80-90% of the time. Only interupts and strips really matter in such a case with the added bonus of being able to turn down energy storage (60+).

Definately think that 60k for an "Insightful Rago Staff of Enchanting" is a bit high. After all u can replicate in Factions from collectors easily, but if u like the skin then....

Keep forgetting to switch back to E/N to use Soul Reaping again (HCT in last skill update I think).

20% longer enchants makes Ether Prodigy better. Anything that makes it better is good.

I use Rago's as my general weapon. I purchased it the week before factions, it cost about 40k or so then. The only complaint I have is that I customized it so I can't trade it around for my other characters to use (and who cares about +20% in staff damage). Do not really know why I did it - mostly just figured I would never have a reason to sell so why not?

One of these days I will purchase a wand/offhand that has the 20/20/20/20 mods on them but I do not find my motivation to do so very high.

But since I tend to run an enchant heavy build Rago's is quite nice. It's exactly what I would get (well, now in Nightfall I would exchange the 15>50 for +5>50) anyway and I like the skin. For a non-enchant build it is at least 90% as good and I do not have to waste storage space. I also use a Galigords staff for an ele earth farmer (same stats, just earth).

no MATTER WHAT.

Faster Regen > Larger NRG Pool.

As for teh build, I'd rather have a +20 energy staff if you wanted the most you could get from a +4 energy regen. Btw, I think a superior energy storage is HORRID if you compare its gains/losses. Here's what you get:

+9 Energy (YAY!)

Here's what you lose:

-75 Hp (And remember that -hp items makes DP more drastic). This is not worth it, I'd take a sup fire. And for the items, the 20/20's are sometimes actually pretty good. Considering the enormous amounts of nukers who use echo MS, that long cast could be cut short by a huge amount. I'd take the staff ^^

Edit: I forgot that with a half cut recharge time, you could even cast meteor shower twice in 60 seconds rather then once in 60.

There's absolutely no point in wielding a -1 energy regen unless you run out of energy or are being targetted by an energy denial mesmer. Learn to switch weapons to suit the situation or don't bother with high energy set.

@ the guy bragging about only 2 mil exp: You really have no idea how many people are laughing at you right now because you think that means something. If you want to make an argument, make one based on the situation and factors that influence it. Making yourself out to be something high and mighty to justify an argument is quite foolish.