I don't like spending time to investigate, but I love understanding the lore of guildwars. For those dedicated, does anyone know the connection between Abanddon and Mursaat?
For example, why is the bridge at Abaddon's mouth the same as the bridge in Abaddon's Gate? What's the significance of the bridge? What is it made of?
Do mursaat serve Abaddon in one way or another? zomg! I want to know, but I am soo confused.
Abaddon and Mursaat
griffinz
alarico511
well it is remain unanswer (i think) about murssat and Abbadone bit all ik now is Murssat is not in white robe and they are no god(ha beat that mantle, get ur levle 15 warrior here so i can pwned them again and again)
mrgoat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by alarico511
well it is remain unanswer (i think) about murssat and Abbadone bit all ik now is Murssat is not in white robe and they are no god(ha beat that mantle, get ur levle 15 warrior here so i can pwned them again and again)
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I think the Mursaat are actually enemies of Abbadon, as they were working to prevent the flameseeker prophecies, which ultimately released the Titans upon Tyria. The mursaat worked to keep the door of komalie closed, with the titans sealed off, and we know now that the titans are servants of abbadon.
I think it's safe to say they knew about abbadon, but not serve him. If anything, they were opposed to him.
As far as I know, there's no extra lore around regarding the Mursaat and the Seers than the tiny, tiny bit that shows up in Prophecies.
Tide to Go
Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffinz
I don't like spending time to investigate, but I love understanding the lore of guildwars. For those dedicated, does anyone know the connection between Abanddon and Mursaat?
For example, why is the bridge at Abaddon's mouth the same as the bridge in Abaddon's Gate? What's the significance of the bridge? What is it made of? Do mursaat serve Abaddon in one way or another? zomg! I want to know, but I am soo confused. |
Corpselooter
SPOILERS
No. The Mursaat worked to prevent the release of the titans, Vizier Khilbron, being the undead lich and a follower of Abbadon, manipulated the players into releasing the Titans to destroy the Mursaat. The Titans were created by Abbadon (Foundry of failed creations), To help Vizier Khilbron to destroy the Mursaat. So ultimately, the Mursaat were actually good (read: preventing the release of the titans), and were the enemies of Abbadon.
No. The Mursaat worked to prevent the release of the titans, Vizier Khilbron, being the undead lich and a follower of Abbadon, manipulated the players into releasing the Titans to destroy the Mursaat. The Titans were created by Abbadon (Foundry of failed creations), To help Vizier Khilbron to destroy the Mursaat. So ultimately, the Mursaat were actually good (read: preventing the release of the titans), and were the enemies of Abbadon.
Guildmaster Cain
Yup, on above post.
But preventing the Titans from being unleashed, meant for them enslaving all mankind and sacrificing innocents with at the bloodstones. On the other hand, these innocents might have been 'tainted' by Abbaddon already and thus could not be saved.
And what about Glint???
She was a Oracle for the gods, which probably includes Abaddon as well. But failing to notice the Players about the true evil, doesn't that align her at the side of evil?
But preventing the Titans from being unleashed, meant for them enslaving all mankind and sacrificing innocents with at the bloodstones. On the other hand, these innocents might have been 'tainted' by Abbaddon already and thus could not be saved.
And what about Glint???
She was a Oracle for the gods, which probably includes Abaddon as well. But failing to notice the Players about the true evil, doesn't that align her at the side of evil?
griffinz
But what about the 'spirit like' bridge? Anyone can explain anything about that?
Let's see... the mursaat are good, since they tried to prevent the gate from opening. As for glint, she had to hide the truth from the players, because the players have to destroy vizier khibron as a part of the prophecy.
and she is not evil because after titans are unleashed she's the one to give quests to eliminate them.
Let's see... the mursaat are good, since they tried to prevent the gate from opening. As for glint, she had to hide the truth from the players, because the players have to destroy vizier khibron as a part of the prophecy.
and she is not evil because after titans are unleashed she's the one to give quests to eliminate them.
Andrew_
Well, here's my little $0.02 worth on the Mursaat and some of the lore we don't fully know.
*SPOILERS*
It has often been mentioned how similar the Mursaat look like the Enchanted fighters controlled by the Forgotten, so this my theory on the possible link.
It has been discussed that the Mursaat's objective was actually good, even though how (killing the Chosen) they tried to achieve their goal (keep the door of Komalie closed and prevent the Prophecy being fulfilled) wasn't altogether peaceful. I think of them as fanatics for whom the end justifies the means no matter what.
If that assumption is correct, then it stands that the Forgotten and the Mursaat have a common goal (keep Abaddon and his followers in the realm of Torment). I think it is entirely possible that the Forgotten created or were given control of (by the Gods? Glint?) the enchanted and Mursaat before (or for the purpose to fight in) the great war between the Margonites and the forgotten. As we know, the Margonites were eventually defeated (not before turning the Crystal Sea into a desert) and the Forgotten were left in charge of guarding the Mouth of Torment and the Crystal Desert (place of ascension).
Now we know of another portal into the Realm of Torment, the mouth of the volcano in the ROF (aka Abaddon's Mouth). Now it was the Mursaat who were guarding that, right? trying to keep titans and all hell so-to-speak within the realm. I think that after the great war, the Forgotten sent their "servants" the Mursaat to guard this location. Over the centuries, the mursaat (a 'higher' form of the enchanted, self-aware etc.) began to gain independance from their masters (the forgotten) and realising their own inmense power, lorded over other races (such as the Krytans), though never forgetting their purpose (to keep the Door of Komalie closed at ANY cost).
As for the seers, perhaps they and the mursaat were once the same, but the Seers developed a higher consciousness and rebelled against there orders to "kill to keep the door closed". or perhaps they actually wanted the door opened (hence helping the players overcome the Mursaat). I'm almost certain the Seers knew what was behind that door, maybe they were even servants of Abaddon?
*END SPOILERS*
So there, if anyone wants to add, or correct me >< feel free
_
*SPOILERS*
It has often been mentioned how similar the Mursaat look like the Enchanted fighters controlled by the Forgotten, so this my theory on the possible link.
It has been discussed that the Mursaat's objective was actually good, even though how (killing the Chosen) they tried to achieve their goal (keep the door of Komalie closed and prevent the Prophecy being fulfilled) wasn't altogether peaceful. I think of them as fanatics for whom the end justifies the means no matter what.
If that assumption is correct, then it stands that the Forgotten and the Mursaat have a common goal (keep Abaddon and his followers in the realm of Torment). I think it is entirely possible that the Forgotten created or were given control of (by the Gods? Glint?) the enchanted and Mursaat before (or for the purpose to fight in) the great war between the Margonites and the forgotten. As we know, the Margonites were eventually defeated (not before turning the Crystal Sea into a desert) and the Forgotten were left in charge of guarding the Mouth of Torment and the Crystal Desert (place of ascension).
Now we know of another portal into the Realm of Torment, the mouth of the volcano in the ROF (aka Abaddon's Mouth). Now it was the Mursaat who were guarding that, right? trying to keep titans and all hell so-to-speak within the realm. I think that after the great war, the Forgotten sent their "servants" the Mursaat to guard this location. Over the centuries, the mursaat (a 'higher' form of the enchanted, self-aware etc.) began to gain independance from their masters (the forgotten) and realising their own inmense power, lorded over other races (such as the Krytans), though never forgetting their purpose (to keep the Door of Komalie closed at ANY cost).
As for the seers, perhaps they and the mursaat were once the same, but the Seers developed a higher consciousness and rebelled against there orders to "kill to keep the door closed". or perhaps they actually wanted the door opened (hence helping the players overcome the Mursaat). I'm almost certain the Seers knew what was behind that door, maybe they were even servants of Abaddon?
*END SPOILERS*
So there, if anyone wants to add, or correct me >< feel free
_
Feme Assassin
Nah i dont think seers were servants of abaddon.Seers are not the same as mursaat they are different races and seer helped us to destroy the mursaats because the seers are in a war with the mursaat.
Also the mursaat were sacrificing the chosens because they knew that the chosen would open the door so they were trying to kill them all.
Also the mursaat were sacrificing the chosens because they knew that the chosen would open the door so they were trying to kill them all.
Andrew_
Yes. i know those facts, but why would the Mursaat want to keep the door closed? to keep Abaddon's forces trapped in the realm of Torment naturally. And yes, the Seers were fighting against the Mursaat, but then who were the Mursaat fighting? the Mursaat were fighting those trying to achieve Abaddon's will (us, even though we were tricked into doing it by the Vizier). So logically we can assume that the Seers were not opposed to Abaddon (as they helped bring about the fall of the Guardians of the Door of Komalie, the Mursaat). They could of course be an unrelated 3rd party, though that seems unlikely to me. Don't forget, it has been mentioned before, that the physical appearance of the Seers highly resembles that of the Mursaat.
griffinz
That makes great sense. I agree with Andrew..
however, the 'spiritual' bridge at the end of Abaddon's mouth and in the mission Abaddon's Gate is still not explained. I think that is one of the most important mystery i would like to know. If they are working against abaddon why would their structures be in the realm of torment (Abaddon's Gate)?
however, the 'spiritual' bridge at the end of Abaddon's mouth and in the mission Abaddon's Gate is still not explained. I think that is one of the most important mystery i would like to know. If they are working against abaddon why would their structures be in the realm of torment (Abaddon's Gate)?
Andrew_
hmm, good point. possibly the spirit-bridge in Torment was dragged down there when Abaddon fell/was banished (like the Temple of the 6 gods)? or maybe it was put by the door of komalie before the Mursaat got there (meaning it wasn't their structure at all, just something they kinda took over). Either way, it really is flashy and impressive to look at. Sure i made some "oooh's" and "ahhh's" first time i saw it
arcanemacabre
My view on the situation:
*spoilers*
WARNING, cantains information that is entirely made up by me, but based on some facts...
The Mursaat are actually decendants of the same race that also spawned Margonites and Seers. They are all 'creatures of the Mists', and all at one time (perhaps before their split into different races, perhaps after) followers of Abbaddon.
Consider this, Abbaddon wasn't always all bad. He was the God of Secrets, right? Perhaps obtaining arcane knowledge over long periods of time simply made him more powerful than all the other gods, remember, knowledge is power. In time, he became a bit big-headed.
At this point, the other five gods determined him to be a threat, and truly evil. This caused a potential major split in viewpoints between the three groups. The Margonites became hardcore followers of Abbaddon, supporting him even though the other gods shunned him. The Seers step away, choosing no sides and ultimately retreating into obscurity (only later to be almost entirely destroyed by Mursaat).
This leaves the Mursaat, possibly with some kind of crusade to 'replace' Abbaddon and his followers, as well as the five gods, to be as gods themselves. They were known to not only seal away Abbaddon's minions, but also to declare themselves "Unseen Gods", to be worshipped instead of the other five. This means they were against all the gods, so that they could rule all.
At some point, the Seers possibly rose up against the Mursaat, maybe to try and stifle their conquest, and died in the process. Meanwhile, the Margonites are stuck in the Realm of Torment with Abbaddon, unable to affect either the Mursaat or the Seers. It's possible that the Seers' primary goal was the destruction of the Mursaat, not realizing that it may end up causing bigger problems.
*spoilers*
WARNING, cantains information that is entirely made up by me, but based on some facts...
The Mursaat are actually decendants of the same race that also spawned Margonites and Seers. They are all 'creatures of the Mists', and all at one time (perhaps before their split into different races, perhaps after) followers of Abbaddon.
Consider this, Abbaddon wasn't always all bad. He was the God of Secrets, right? Perhaps obtaining arcane knowledge over long periods of time simply made him more powerful than all the other gods, remember, knowledge is power. In time, he became a bit big-headed.
At this point, the other five gods determined him to be a threat, and truly evil. This caused a potential major split in viewpoints between the three groups. The Margonites became hardcore followers of Abbaddon, supporting him even though the other gods shunned him. The Seers step away, choosing no sides and ultimately retreating into obscurity (only later to be almost entirely destroyed by Mursaat).
This leaves the Mursaat, possibly with some kind of crusade to 'replace' Abbaddon and his followers, as well as the five gods, to be as gods themselves. They were known to not only seal away Abbaddon's minions, but also to declare themselves "Unseen Gods", to be worshipped instead of the other five. This means they were against all the gods, so that they could rule all.
At some point, the Seers possibly rose up against the Mursaat, maybe to try and stifle their conquest, and died in the process. Meanwhile, the Margonites are stuck in the Realm of Torment with Abbaddon, unable to affect either the Mursaat or the Seers. It's possible that the Seers' primary goal was the destruction of the Mursaat, not realizing that it may end up causing bigger problems.
Shai
The 'spirit bridges' are simply souls being moved to power/feed things.
NinjaKai
@arcanemacabre: Are you a conspiracy theorist by chance? Just curious. And its the White Mantle that called the Mursaat there unseen gods, not the other way around.
As far as the spirit bridges go. Considering the place is called Abaddons mouth it suggests that some part of Abaddon seeped through there. Considering the islands are now volcano striken, i'd guess Abaddon tried a little escape a couple centuries ago. As for the Mursaat, they are most probably against Abaddon, since they went to the extent of preventing the titans release into the mortal world. Considering the Flame Seeker Prophecies never actually said what the outcome would be, there are obviously those who (Mursaat) that don't want to take that chance that something so powerful and evil is released.
As far as the spirit bridges go. Considering the place is called Abaddons mouth it suggests that some part of Abaddon seeped through there. Considering the islands are now volcano striken, i'd guess Abaddon tried a little escape a couple centuries ago. As for the Mursaat, they are most probably against Abaddon, since they went to the extent of preventing the titans release into the mortal world. Considering the Flame Seeker Prophecies never actually said what the outcome would be, there are obviously those who (Mursaat) that don't want to take that chance that something so powerful and evil is released.
Andrew_
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Originally Posted by NinjaKai
And its the White Mantle that called the Mursaat there unseen gods, not the other way around.
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NinjaKai
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Andrew_
I agree with that statement, I don't think the Mursaat made themselves out to be gods, I think that when Saul D'Alessio assumed that they were gods, they simply took advantage of that and exploited the Krytans in order to fulfil their own goals. Remember that Saul found the Mursaat, the Mursaat never went out looking for followers. Also, I doubt Mursaat had much to do with Abaddon after his fall (with the exception of fighting him) as none were corrupted by Abaddon's taint (ie. no Mursaat are to be found in the realm of torment).
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Maria Moon
the mursaat not only killed the chosen to power the "blockade" at kamalie but also because the chosen were predicted to be their downfall, and also the mursaat were not out to save the world they were out to save themselves and if saving the world was part of saving them selves then that was like a cherry on top,
i read some thoughts of the chosen actually being "tainted" by abbadon and thats why the mursaat would kill them, but, that would mean the our characters are 'tainted' as they are after all chosen as said at the sanctum cay mission and also that is why our characters ascended as only chosen could.
i u must also remember that concerning the bridge, tha alot of the structures in the realm of torment are alike to the real world conter parts, the realm of torment is after all a realm witch has "abbadons version" of areas in elona and so on just like kormirs says when u first arrive there.
Spoiler
the seers could not have exactly been working for abbadon as u must remember in the last mission of prophecies, hell's precipice the bonus is to destroy the titan leaders and the bonus is given to u by a seer.
i will not even speak about glint cause as shown in many other threads her actions are very questionable at times, and she often "hides" information uneccesarily.
if i sounded rude at any time plz forgive me i dont ever mean to,
and that was my 2 cents worth
i read some thoughts of the chosen actually being "tainted" by abbadon and thats why the mursaat would kill them, but, that would mean the our characters are 'tainted' as they are after all chosen as said at the sanctum cay mission and also that is why our characters ascended as only chosen could.
i u must also remember that concerning the bridge, tha alot of the structures in the realm of torment are alike to the real world conter parts, the realm of torment is after all a realm witch has "abbadons version" of areas in elona and so on just like kormirs says when u first arrive there.
Spoiler
the seers could not have exactly been working for abbadon as u must remember in the last mission of prophecies, hell's precipice the bonus is to destroy the titan leaders and the bonus is given to u by a seer.
i will not even speak about glint cause as shown in many other threads her actions are very questionable at times, and she often "hides" information uneccesarily.
if i sounded rude at any time plz forgive me i dont ever mean to,
and that was my 2 cents worth
griffinz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
My view on the situation:
*spoilers* WARNING, cantains information that is entirely made up by me, but based on some facts... The Mursaat are actually decendants of the same race that also spawned Margonites and Seers. They are all 'creatures of the Mists', and all at one time (perhaps before their split into different races, perhaps after) followers of Abbaddon. Consider this, Abbaddon wasn't always all bad. He was the God of Secrets, right? Perhaps obtaining arcane knowledge over long periods of time simply made him more powerful than all the other gods, remember, knowledge is power. In time, he became a bit big-headed. At this point, the other five gods determined him to be a threat, and truly evil. This caused a potential major split in viewpoints between the three groups. The Margonites became hardcore followers of Abbaddon, supporting him even though the other gods shunned him. The Seers step away, choosing no sides and ultimately retreating into obscurity (only later to be almost entirely destroyed by Mursaat). This leaves the Mursaat, possibly with some kind of crusade to 'replace' Abbaddon and his followers, as well as the five gods, to be as gods themselves. They were known to not only seal away Abbaddon's minions, but also to declare themselves "Unseen Gods", to be worshipped instead of the other five. This means they were against all the gods, so that they could rule all. At some point, the Seers possibly rose up against the Mursaat, maybe to try and stifle their conquest, and died in the process. Meanwhile, the Margonites are stuck in the Realm of Torment with Abbaddon, unable to affect either the Mursaat or the Seers. It's possible that the Seers' primary goal was the destruction of the Mursaat, not realizing that it may end up causing bigger problems. |
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by NinjaKai
@arcanemacabre: Are you a conspiracy theorist by chance? Just curious. And its the White Mantle that called the Mursaat there unseen gods, not the other way around.
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You could really look at the Mursaat vs Titans in two different lights: Were they keeping the Titans at bay because they knew the Titans were destructive and would "end the world of men"? Or... is it because they themselves could not control/destroy the Titans and could end up being the only thing that could stop them?
Remember Villany of Galrath? Galrath was a White Mantle Knight who was trying to "break-in" to the floating castle down in Kessex. It is my belief that that is where Khilbron "lived", and housed the Scepter after he acquired it. This would also imply that the White Mantle knew about the scepter and what it was for, and implies even further that the Mursaat were trying to get their hands on it.
Now, why would the Mursaat be trying to get the Scepter? Surely they couldn't destroy it, not even Glint could destroy it, only re-locate it. This means they were probably planning on using it themselves. If they could control Abbaddon's minions, they would surely be as Gods themselves.
Oh, and yes, I am a bit of a conspiracy theorist, hehe.
Andrew_
Quote:
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
Ahh, but they never corrected them! They certainly perpetuated the ruse. Yes, Saul did find them, not the other way around, but that doesn't mean they didn't set themselves out to be found. How else were they planning on suckering in the chosen?
You could really look at the Mursaat vs Titans in two different lights: Were they keeping the Titans at bay because they knew the Titans were destructive and would "end the world of men"? Or... is it because they themselves could not control/destroy the Titans and could end up being the only thing that could stop them? Remember Villany of Galrath? Galrath was a White Mantle Knight who was trying to "break-in" to the floating castle down in Kessex. It is my belief that that is where Khilbron "lived", and housed the Scepter after he acquired it. This would also imply that the White Mantle knew about the scepter and what it was for, and implies even further that the Mursaat were trying to get their hands on it. Now, why would the Mursaat be trying to get the Scepter? Surely they couldn't destroy it, not even Glint could destroy it, only re-locate it. This means they were probably planning on using it themselves. If they could control Abbaddon's minions, they would surely be as Gods themselves. Oh, and yes, I am a bit of a conspiracy theorist, hehe. |
Very nice theory, though you forget that the mantle actually did hold the Scepter at one point (we stole it from them remember?) and they were actually guarding it. So there goes your theory that it was in Kessex peak (sorry to bust it, it was really good)
Though I do agree, maybe the Mursaat wanted to harness the titans, and were guarding the door so that no one else could it open it until they themselves had the Scepter. hmm...
just made me think... now (after fall of Abaddon) they actually have a chance to take control of the titans, as the mindless automatons the titans (not the titan generals) were, they only obeyed the weilder of the scepter. though i am sure that Abaddon could overrule the one weilding it. but now that he is out of the picture... maybe the Mursaat wil try get the scepter?
This theory completely contradict my old one btw.. :P we can't be right all the time can we?
Hand of Ruin
Well, as far as abaddon's mouth is concerned, I don't believe that place is directly influenced by abaddon, but rather may be some relic from his reign as a member of the six gods. The titans are sealed in there and roam freely, and no longer serve abaddon, but were probably a creation of his. (Hence the presence of titans in the ROT)
This is why the scepter could control them, because they no longer had any real will to serve.
The Mursaat are unconnected to abaddon, and really serve their own ends. They simply knew the titans were a huge threat, and wanted to keep them safely sealed away. The Lich wanted to use the Titans to fuel his conquests, so naturally this put him in conflict with the Mursaat and the white mantle.
That's how I see things anyways.
This is why the scepter could control them, because they no longer had any real will to serve.
The Mursaat are unconnected to abaddon, and really serve their own ends. They simply knew the titans were a huge threat, and wanted to keep them safely sealed away. The Lich wanted to use the Titans to fuel his conquests, so naturally this put him in conflict with the Mursaat and the white mantle.
That's how I see things anyways.
arcanemacabre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Andrew_
Very nice theory, though you forget that the mantle actually did hold the Scepter at one point (we stole it from them remember?) and they were actually guarding it. So there goes your theory that it was in Kessex peak (sorry to bust it, it was really good)
Though I do agree, maybe the Mursaat wanted to harness the titans, and were guarding the door so that no one else could it open it until they themselves had the Scepter. hmm... |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Andrew_
just made me think... now (after fall of Abaddon) they actually have a chance to take control of the titans, as the mindless automatons the titans (not the titan generals) were, they only obeyed the weilder of the scepter. though i am sure that Abaddon could overrule the one weilding it. but now that he is out of the picture... maybe the Mursaat wil try get the scepter?
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Of course, if Abbaddon controlled both the Lich and the Titans, why would the Lich need the scepter in the first place? That has me stumped... Maybe the Titans are simply "tools of the gods", avenging angels of sorts, and the only way to force their hands would be to either have the Scepter of Orr, since it's origin is in Arah, city of the gods, or to be a God.
scrinner
Abaddon was sealed and doesnt have direct influence in the real world, thats why the lich required the staff and btw.. do remember that the mursaat are now extinct due to the titans being unleashed.
Maria Moon
SPOILER
well i think i go for the sid ethat is saying that abbadon once had power of the titans, but now does not, that is afterall why the sceptor of orr is so important, along with its twin the staff of mists, which in a quest u have to "rescue" it before the margonnites manage to optain it so as to use it for there own uses, could this possibly be a plan to take control of the titans?
and as for ( i mention her yet again) she has done her little job, helped fufill the prophecy and is now busy lying around in some little cave with 100's of forgotten doing her bidding and with the scepter of orr nice and cosy in here little cave,..while the rest of the world is in chaos, ( sorry just really have issues with glint lazy old dragon) but i suppose its not her problem shes done wat she was meant to do in the first place i suppose. it would just have helped alot if espcially in night fall if glint had intervined(sp) but o well that if for another place another thread sorry just really had to say that.
but just to get the topic back ons its tracks, did anyone really ever answer the main question of why the 1 bridge places a 'supposed part of importance" in and why it looks the same with both prophecies and night fall?
well i think i go for the sid ethat is saying that abbadon once had power of the titans, but now does not, that is afterall why the sceptor of orr is so important, along with its twin the staff of mists, which in a quest u have to "rescue" it before the margonnites manage to optain it so as to use it for there own uses, could this possibly be a plan to take control of the titans?
and as for ( i mention her yet again) she has done her little job, helped fufill the prophecy and is now busy lying around in some little cave with 100's of forgotten doing her bidding and with the scepter of orr nice and cosy in here little cave,..while the rest of the world is in chaos, ( sorry just really have issues with glint lazy old dragon) but i suppose its not her problem shes done wat she was meant to do in the first place i suppose. it would just have helped alot if espcially in night fall if glint had intervined(sp) but o well that if for another place another thread sorry just really had to say that.
but just to get the topic back ons its tracks, did anyone really ever answer the main question of why the 1 bridge places a 'supposed part of importance" in and why it looks the same with both prophecies and night fall?
griffinz
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Maria Moon
SPOILER
but just to get the topic back ons its tracks, did anyone really ever answer the main question of why the 1 bridge places a 'supposed part of importance" in and why it looks the same with both prophecies and night fall? |
Okay summing part of this up, I think it is safe to say that the Mursaat were not 'good', even though they fought against the titans. They are their own race, and they FEARED the titans, because they know that Titans will be their doom. Remember when you do Defend Droknor's Forge Quest? In mineral springs, you see Mursaat corpses everywhere! They knew about the Flameseeker Prophecies, and part of it is probabaly about their own destruction, not by the 'chosen', but by the Titans. They probabaly knew that the chosen would unleash the Titans against them.
But the question is: Do the Mursaat know about Abaddon? Or do they only know about the Flameseeker Propheces?
The Scepter of Orr... uhmm, *SPOILER*, well concerning the scepter of Orr, remember the undead lich is vizier khibron, tainted by the Demon "Terick", as shown by a quest in the Realm of Torment. Why did Terick make the vizier evil?because Abaddon wished to bring destruction to Orr, just as how he ordered the Titans to taint the Charr into destroying ascalon.
These are facts, I got them from wiki.
Following that story, Charr destroyed Ascalon, Khibron destroyed Orr? What about Kryta??? They can't do it, it is protected by the white mantle and the mursaat. and now it all goes back to the flameseeker prophecies. The Vizier manipulated the players to unleash the titans on the mursaat. That way Abaddon can destroy Tyria.
Andrew_
*SPOILERS*
All this is very interesting, but again, we find it leading back to the Flameseeker Prophecies, and invariably Glint herself. now what was foretold exactly? we know it mentioned Ascalon being decimated by charr, Rurik dying, the lich and the chosen freeing the titans, and the Lich being killed by the chosen. so here's my little guess as to the words of Glint, some 800 years ago, ahem:
"During the days of war, a greater threat will come, fire-worshippers from the north. They will rend and tear the land til it is naught but dust, but will eventually be halted in Orr, with magic from the tormented realm itself, and defeated by the unseen ones in Kryta. The Chosen will be led by one of royal blood. His courage and bravery will be matched only by his self-sacrifice, to let the chosen pass through the gate of frost into the lands of Kryta. All this time the chosen will come ever closer to ascension, in the place where margonites once blasphemed the true god's names. The flameseeker will aid them, and they shall not know of his true aims.
The chosen will rise up with their dwarven brothers, and come down upon the unseen ones and their followers like cleansing fire from the heavens. Only then will the door be opened, the door that will release the abominations from torment, controlled by the Scepter of Orr. Though the flameseeker will not revel in victory for long, as the Chosen will exact a swift revenge, and send him to his master's domain, never to enter the mortal realm again"
That's all specualtion on my part, but someone posted earlier that the titans were IN the volcano, that is not correct. the PORTAL to the domain of anguish (where the titans come from) was in the volcano. i think that Glint told parts of the prophecy to some of the people concerned, just enough to make them fulfil their role. ie. the Lich didn't know of his defeat, he only knew up to the part where the door was opened. i think the Mursaat didn't know the part where they were defeated too. either way, I would like to know the exact prophecy.
All this is very interesting, but again, we find it leading back to the Flameseeker Prophecies, and invariably Glint herself. now what was foretold exactly? we know it mentioned Ascalon being decimated by charr, Rurik dying, the lich and the chosen freeing the titans, and the Lich being killed by the chosen. so here's my little guess as to the words of Glint, some 800 years ago, ahem:
"During the days of war, a greater threat will come, fire-worshippers from the north. They will rend and tear the land til it is naught but dust, but will eventually be halted in Orr, with magic from the tormented realm itself, and defeated by the unseen ones in Kryta. The Chosen will be led by one of royal blood. His courage and bravery will be matched only by his self-sacrifice, to let the chosen pass through the gate of frost into the lands of Kryta. All this time the chosen will come ever closer to ascension, in the place where margonites once blasphemed the true god's names. The flameseeker will aid them, and they shall not know of his true aims.
The chosen will rise up with their dwarven brothers, and come down upon the unseen ones and their followers like cleansing fire from the heavens. Only then will the door be opened, the door that will release the abominations from torment, controlled by the Scepter of Orr. Though the flameseeker will not revel in victory for long, as the Chosen will exact a swift revenge, and send him to his master's domain, never to enter the mortal realm again"
That's all specualtion on my part, but someone posted earlier that the titans were IN the volcano, that is not correct. the PORTAL to the domain of anguish (where the titans come from) was in the volcano. i think that Glint told parts of the prophecy to some of the people concerned, just enough to make them fulfil their role. ie. the Lich didn't know of his defeat, he only knew up to the part where the door was opened. i think the Mursaat didn't know the part where they were defeated too. either way, I would like to know the exact prophecy.
griffinz
I like how you interpret the Flameseeker Prophecies. It makes great sense, although, it'd be better if there's something there for us to guess at. 
You sort of concluded our discussion What's our next question concerning Mursaat and Abaddon?
Let's see, The Foundry of Failed Foundations... how does that relate to Komalie again?
You sort of concluded our discussion
What's our next question concerning Mursaat and Abaddon?Let's see, The Foundry of Failed Foundations... how does that relate to Komalie again?
Feme Assassin
ok i will try to answer some questions
margonites worshiped all the 6 gods including abaddon they travelled by ship in crystal desert by the time it was still a sea and they tried to achieve ascension they failed and they turned to abaddon they hated the other gods and started destroying their temples
seers are seers no more information except that they are in a war with mursaats
mursaats they are in war with seers and they were trying to keep the komali door closed cause they were afraid of the titans or they wwanted to save the whole world so the gods would be gratefull to them
abaddon couldnt control the world from his domain so he managed through a spirit that we can find in realm of torment(i cant remember its name)
to control the vizier and with the scepter of orr realease the titans so they could destroy the world or even open a door to the torment so he could escape
someone said that mursaat wantd the scepter ok lets say they wanted it but in my opinion to destroy it so no one could control the titans and not use it against the world or god themselves
margonites worshiped all the 6 gods including abaddon they travelled by ship in crystal desert by the time it was still a sea and they tried to achieve ascension they failed and they turned to abaddon they hated the other gods and started destroying their temples
seers are seers no more information except that they are in a war with mursaats
mursaats they are in war with seers and they were trying to keep the komali door closed cause they were afraid of the titans or they wwanted to save the whole world so the gods would be gratefull to them
abaddon couldnt control the world from his domain so he managed through a spirit that we can find in realm of torment(i cant remember its name)
to control the vizier and with the scepter of orr realease the titans so they could destroy the world or even open a door to the torment so he could escape
someone said that mursaat wantd the scepter ok lets say they wanted it but in my opinion to destroy it so no one could control the titans and not use it against the world or god themselves
Feme Assassin
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Originally Posted by griffinz
I like how you interpret the Flameseeker Prophecies. It makes great sense, although, it'd be better if there's something there for us to guess at.
You sort of concluded our discussion What's our next question concerning Mursaat and Abaddon?Let's see, The Foundry of Failed Foundations... how does that relate to Komalie again? |
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Feme Assassin
maybe komalie its another exit from foundry
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Originally Posted by Aurus Trevess(SPOILER)
Inside the Foundry is the Door of Komalie... a passage into the realm of the living. Countless Titans wander these halls. They are sick, twisted creatures formed from tormented souls.
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.I suspect Andrew's view of the Prophecies are probably what Glint saw, but not what was actually put out. The real Prophecies are probably hidden deep within layers of riddles, mostly up to the interpretation of the reader. Consider: the Lich seemed pretty certain he was going to win, even though, according to Glint, the Prophecies weren't complete until after the Lich was destroyed. It could be that he simply thought he'd be able to defy the finishing of the Prophecies while following the rest, but I suspect the Prophecies are actually written in such a way as to imply that the Lich had at least a good chance of winning.
Heck, the Prophecies may actually have been intended as a subtle trap to catch anyone seeking to release the Titans. Write the Prophecies (at least the start therof) in vague enough terms that any would-be Titan-controller would assume that it speaks of them, then make the rest a convincing formula of how to release them - one that actually works in order to avoid the megalomaniac from evading the trap but doing his or her own research, but which makes sure said megalomaniac follows a path that Glint can counter rather than finding their own path that she can't.
Some Guru Named Kai
Since the Door of Komalie (portal to the titans and possibly Realm of Torment) was title "Abaddon's Mouth" as a mission. The answer for the bridge could simply be, Abaddon saw the bridge design the Mursaat used and really liked it, therefore, paying a few Mursaat contractors to build one for him. d=
As for the Margonites, they only worshipped 1 god, "the fallen god" I think we all know that's Abaddon. (Reference from page 24 from the Nightfall manuscript)
As for the Margonites, they only worshipped 1 god, "the fallen god" I think we all know that's Abaddon.
(Reference from page 24 from the Nightfall manuscript)
kopacha
One Thing:
The Lich is a follower of Abaddon.
The Mursaat wanted to stop the Lich because of the Flameseeker Prophecy.
Sooo... All I can say is that the Mursaat if followers of Abaddon wouldn't give opposition to the Lich. But they did which can make thing of 2 things:
1. The Mursaat are exiled Margonites.
2. The Margonites are corrupted Mursaat.
This is just my opinion, tho. I can only state this clearly:
Mursaat and Margonites look pretty much the same.
Jade Armours are like miniatures of Abaddon.
Everything just makes me want to ask more questions...
This might not reach ANet's ears, but... Why not make a Elite Mission in Tyria to finish the Mursaat's demise as it was stated in the Flameseeker Prophecies...
Pretty Please with a Cherry on Top
The Lich is a follower of Abaddon.
The Mursaat wanted to stop the Lich because of the Flameseeker Prophecy.
Sooo... All I can say is that the Mursaat if followers of Abaddon wouldn't give opposition to the Lich. But they did which can make thing of 2 things:
1. The Mursaat are exiled Margonites.
2. The Margonites are corrupted Mursaat.
This is just my opinion, tho. I can only state this clearly:
Mursaat and Margonites look pretty much the same.
Jade Armours are like miniatures of Abaddon.
Everything just makes me want to ask more questions...
This might not reach ANet's ears, but... Why not make a Elite Mission in Tyria to finish the Mursaat's demise as it was stated in the Flameseeker Prophecies...
Pretty Please with a Cherry on Top
Lord-UWR
Why Do You All Spell It Abbaddon?
Its Abaddon, With One "b" Not Two!!! Lol
Its Abaddon, With One "b" Not Two!!! Lol
gilgameshx
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Originally Posted by Lord-UWR
Why Do You All Spell It Abbaddon?
Its Abaddon, With One "d" Not Two!!! Lol |
Back to the subject, I think the Mursaat were once followers of Abaddon or the unnamed god that Abaddon destroyed or supplanted as mentioned from Apostate (The Margonite quest in Gate of Fear). And/or the Titans were probably replacements for the Mursaat instead and maybe that's why the Mursaat sealed the Door of Komalie.
The Mursaat don't have fins like the Margonites do. It's strange that we don't see one Mursaat in the Realm of Torment.
Feme Assassin
come on guys why mursaats and seers and margonites must be from the same race they are totaly different races.Someone will say hey mursaat and seers have 4 hands and they float over the ground and then i will say to him hey man and dwarves have 2 hands and they both walk on the ground that makes them come from the same race?
Its completely pointless mursaat seers and margonites are from different races end of story
Its completely pointless mursaat seers and margonites are from different races end of story
Sophitia Leafblade
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Originally Posted by Feme Assassin
come on guys why mursaats and seers and margonites must be from the same race they are totaly different races.Someone will say hey mursaat and seers have 4 hands and they float over the ground and then i will say to him hey man and dwarves have 2 hands and they both walk on the ground that makes them come from the same race?
Its completely pointless mursaat seers and margonites are from different races end of story |
A snow wolf and a normal Wolf are near identical, yes there not the same race but they Evoled from that same gene pool, Why cant Mursaat and Margonites therefore originate from a common Ancestor? However Ignoring this possible explanation due to the following:
And it Appears that Margonites are Created by Abaddon, they are not a natural creature, As seen by Varesh becoming a Margonite So presumably this explains why The Margonite on the Ship that was being hunted by the Forgotten is called 'First of the margonites' Evidently this was the 1st person/creature to be turned into a margonite. it is then possible the Mursaat looking Margonites were once infact Mursaats that were transformed by Abaddon.
Feme Assassin
Ok snow wolf and the normal one may be from the same gene pool.And mursaat and margonites may be from the same pool too you got a point there.
But no way seers are from the same gene pool as mursaat and maybe margonites were mursaats and abaddon transformed them into the things they are now
But no way seers are from the same gene pool as mursaat and maybe margonites were mursaats and abaddon transformed them into the things they are now
Sophitia Leafblade
Not that i diagree to them not being seperate species (because i think Seers are a seperate species) but there are still possiblitys that they could be:
Eg Perhaps they could be Ascended Mursaat that have sided with the 5 Gods of Tryia, The Complete opposite of the margonites.
They could be a different sexs. For all we know the Mursaat could be Females of the species and the Seers the males of the species, alot of species have differing appearences for males and females.
They could be the gw version of having different Ethnicitys of the same species.
Eg Perhaps they could be Ascended Mursaat that have sided with the 5 Gods of Tryia, The Complete opposite of the margonites.
They could be a different sexs. For all we know the Mursaat could be Females of the species and the Seers the males of the species, alot of species have differing appearences for males and females.
They could be the gw version of having different Ethnicitys of the same species.
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade
They could be a different sexs. For all we know the Mursaat could be Females of the species and the Seers the males of the species, alot of species have differing appearences for males and females.
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Originally Posted by Avon from Blake's 7, possibly slightly misquoted
"You can have war between empires and war between planets, but if you have war between the sexes, eventually you run out of people"
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