List Of Skills That Should Be Changed - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

31 Dec 2006 at 02:24 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Searing Flame need Exhaustion. Mindburn however doesn't.

Wheee, let's give everything exhaustion! Eles are way overpowered to begin with, they can spam exhuastion spells forever because of energy storage!

*end sarcasm*

Guardian of the Light

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Radicals Against Tyrants

W/

31 Dec 2006 at 02:35 - 42

*bets 50K that Searing Flames will be nerfed*

This damage is too insane esp with 2 or more Searing Flames eles.

I've had a lot of fun with that skill but it's time for it to go to the nerf pile.

A simple nerf would probably reducing the burning time to 1...3 so that you can't get as much damage off without reappling Burning

Gregslot

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Me/

31 Dec 2006 at 02:39 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

For god sake leave Searing Flames alone.

Elementals finally have a decent skill that doesnt cause exhaustion, cost a huge amount of energy or take for ever to recharge and everyone wants to nerf it.

The sheer fact you would want to add exhaustion to ANY skill, shows you have no idea what your on about. Exhaustion is the bain of any and all elementals and should be removed completely from the game.

What have you got against elementals that you want to change two decent spells and make them worse?

Dijjin Haste is one the few running skills that an elememental has that doesnt have stupid side effects. If you look at other professions who have running skills, they dont have to endure side effects to using theirs. So why should elementals?

And offering of blood is the one of the few if only energy boosting skills which necros have, so why increase its energy demand when necros are limited to energy as it is? Its a necessary skill if you demand it.

Im really not understanding these nerfs you want. You should have put some explanation into your OP.

Of course you want to leave it alone, you are an elementalist ¬¬

And wait for the next skill balance to complain about something, good lord.
Searing Flames is overpowered and it IS getting nerfed, get used to it, dont even try to reply complaining, it is and thats the end of it. ¬¬

Ken Dei

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

W/Mo

31 Dec 2006 at 03:48 - 44

General Commentary: Anyone who doesn't believe in balencing for PvE and ALL forms of PvP really shouldn't say anything.

Elitist garbage like AB doesn't matter, or Fort Aspenwood doesn't matter, doesn't fly. They're pvp styles. They might not be YOUR pvp style, but they're somebody's and those somebody's bought the game just like you, they deserved balenced skills just as much.

If you have an issue with that fact, cram it.

kKagari

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

31 Dec 2006 at 06:09 - 45

you know guys, you dont really need a specific class to 'counter' SF. all it takes is a couple arrow keys, and not group up in one *** pile.

and before people start quoting me on this and saying how you cant always seperate in a good game of pvp, well really, theres heaps of other things you can cry about too...

Curse You

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

South Pole

The Magus Order

N/Mo

31 Dec 2006 at 06:53 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

Of course you want to leave it alone, you are an elementalist ¬¬

And wait for the next skill balance to complain about something, good lord.
Searing Flames is overpowered and it IS getting nerfed, get used to it, dont even try to reply complaining, it is and thats the end of it. ¬¬

And you are sure of this because...?

Searing Flames is not overpowered. Not anymore than IWAY, Touch Rangers, Rampaging Thumpers (I haven't seen anyone complaing about them recently).

There is at least one good damage dealing elite for each strand of Elemental magic.

Invoke Lightning
Sandstorm
Searing Flames
Shatterstone

Now why haven't I seen any complaints about the other ones?

witly

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Dec 2006

31 Dec 2006 at 16:26 - 47

As far as it concern searing flames, at start I was saying the same thing - they have to change it. Until I made a PvP elementalist. SF can run your energy down too fast. It dont hurt Spirits - as they cant burn, plus it dont hurt people that have fast removing skills of conditions on them, and classes like rangers and warriors that has good regen skills and high armor against eles. I dont believe it should be changed. Its fine. And I see a great balance in professions and skills in PvP game with the coming of NF.

But reading that post, i remind a new Elite Skill of Necro that is really catastrophic. "Spoil Victor" .. For 30 seconds, if the enemy attack or use a spell again an enemy with less health, he takes about 105 damage. With 10 energy, 1sec casting time, and 10 recharge time, it can make useless 3 enemies at the same time! It overcomes the "Backfire" of mesmer, as it work like "Backfire" and "Empathy" together, for almost triple time, making huge amounts of damage that can not be avoided.

This mean that for 30 seconds you cannot kill anyone-you can only die doing some damage! Because if enemy has one point less than you, you take 105 damage, and enemy will take about 50dmg more or less with a decent skill. Plus the enemy will do to you about 50dmg with other decent skills. I'd say, or reduce the time that it last (30seconds without attacking is too much!, do it 15 seconds max), or increase its recharge time to 20 seconds, or make it do damage for 1-3max hits and then this hex to end (300dmg is enough i think :P)

Poison Ivy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Toronto

Hopping

Mo/A

31 Dec 2006 at 16:54 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

Not to hijack, but incase the devs actually read this.

Caltrops: Change to a Skill.
It doesn't require magic to throw pointy thingies under your enemies feet...why is this a spell? For that matter, why do I have to stop moving to perform it? Open the little pocket, grab pointy thingies, throw pointy thingies behind me. Huzzah, I don't lose my last 20 hp because I had to stop and cast a spell. (Sorry this has always bothered me.)

>.>
<.<

Same matter for Throw Dirt, who the hell actually needs any experince in anything to grab a fistfull of dirt and throw it, yet it has a 45 second recharge and costs 5 energy.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

31 Dec 2006 at 17:11 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

There is at least one good damage dealing elite for each strand of Elemental magic.

Invoke Lightning
Sandstorm
Searing Flames
Shatterstone

Now why haven't I seen any complaints about the other ones?

Because the other ones are far less popular then SF.

witly

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Dec 2006

31 Dec 2006 at 17:28 - 50

Calctrops: .. They are a spell, because you create them at that time with magic. Thus you need 1 second to summon them at the enemy and his adjacments enemies feets (I never had prob with that).

Throw Dirt: ...With that though, anyone can blind the others.. Just pick up a fist of dirt and throw it to enemy to blind it. This is a skill and with some magic anyone can take a fist of dirst and convert it in such way thus to be enough to blind many adjacment enemies together. Thus its require magic, and some time to recharge that skill (that use magic). Also blinding a melee unit for about 10-15 second make it completely useless. Smaller recharge time (30seconds f.e), would give great power to rangers - every 15 seconds to blind the same enemy - its not normal. Look what air eles do... Concequtively blinds... To do the same and the Rangers? It is too much I think. I believe 5 energy is ok. The smaller energy need. And dont forget that these skills blinds all adjacment foes, not only one target as ele's air skill.

Moa Bird Cultist

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Hastings (UK) / Latham (USA)

Freedom Fanatical Scots [FFS]

E/W

31 Dec 2006 at 17:47 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

And you are sure of this because...?

Searing Flames is not overpowered. Not anymore than IWAY, Touch Rangers, Rampaging Thumpers (I haven't seen anyone complaing about them recently).

There is at least one good damage dealing elite for each strand of Elemental magic.

Invoke Lightning
Sandstorm
Searing Flames
Shatterstone

Now why haven't I seen any complaints about the other ones?

Of the 4 of these, I can offer my expertisse on 3 of them.

I'm going to say this very simply. None of them are uber. Sandstorm has a 2 second cast time - it's interrupt food; Shatterstone is a Hex Spell and therefore vulnerable to hex removal; Searing Flames is 15 energy and spammable. People who say thats nothing for an ele because of energy storage are wrong. Likewise, fire attunement and glowing gaze isnt perfect either, as that only covers the regen for SF, leaving no management skills for the other 5 skills in their skill bar. Oh sure, you can spec in inspiration as well, but that reduces your ability to effectively use other elementalist attributes, not to mention in PvP, it removes the option for taking heal party etc.

Oh, and exhaustion on a spammable skill? Frankly, I think the people saying stuff like that have never experienced exhaustion for themselves. Exhaustion on Searing Flames would make it the de facto worst skill in the game, full stop.

And yes, I'm an ele, so of course I'm gonna stand up for my classes skills, but I'll have you know that I use Sandstorm.

Just a little edit. As has been stated, SF is fine in itself. If there is a problem, it is that the energy gain from glowing gaze perhaps needs to be toned down a bit. Say, maximum of +8 and make the top tier of energy gain available at 15 fire magic, (As in make the increase narrower.) - this is so people dont need to buy an overpriced superior rune to get the best out of the skill.

I guess that wasnt very clear tho, so I'll do a quick chart type thing.

--Glowing Gaze--

Fire Magic---1--2--3--4--5--6--7--8--9--10--11--12--13--14--15--16
Energy Gain--1--1--2--2--3--3--4--4--5--5---6----6---7---7---8---8
Damage- Inconsequential, leave as is

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

31 Dec 2006 at 18:08 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Because the other ones are far less popular then SF.

I was thinking more because a team of 4 Shatterstone Eles do absolutely nothing to a target other than cancel there own hex out.
A team of Sandstorm Eles are interrupt bait and your target isn't dumb enough to stand and attack inside its massive AoE...
A team of Invoke Lightning Eles do have there strengths... but they're still interrupt bait.

Theres nothing wrong with Searing Flames itself, its just the fact they made it too powerful if used with other Searing Flames eles. If you brought along 4 Fire Eles and only 1 ran Searing Flames, barely anybody would give a crap. All they can do is reduce its damage/burn duration without completely destroying the skill.

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

31 Dec 2006 at 18:17 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

Of course you want to leave it alone, you are an elementalist ¬¬

And wait for the next skill balance to complain about something, good lord.
Searing Flames is overpowered and it IS getting nerfed, get used to it, dont even try to reply complaining, it is and thats the end of it. ¬¬

Its only over powered if you come up against its in PvP and you havent had the sense to bring an anti-casting spell.

SF is a elite spell which actually lives up the title of elite.

It offers great recharge time and low energy cost. Unlike every other elite skill ingame which is no better then its normal counterpart.

Stop winging about it and just re-think your party and skills when you play PvP.

And its not that impressive a skill. It soon drains your energy if you continually use it. Once an elemental looses all their energy by spamming it, you can wipe the floor with them.

BTW, yes I am an elemental. If your NOT, then Id say i have more idea what im talking about then you.

Gustin

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

R/

31 Dec 2006 at 22:14 - 54

SF is fine. I maybe played SF in HA for a week and I got extremely bored with it. Sure it's easy to use but there's flaws in it as well. And any good ranger can drop a Concussion Shot on an ele to daze them and just sit there and interrupt everything they've got.

Blinding Surge on the other hand...is absolutely rediculous. 5 energy, 3/4 cast time, 4 second recharge, damage + blind (and sometimes AoE blinding). An air ele can constantly keep a number of melee attackers completely useless with no problems. I'd say leave SF alone and go after BS. Something like maybe more engery, 1 second cast time and sure, leave the 4 second recharge. That way it gets spammed till they have no energy anyways.

Redfeather1975

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Apartment#306

Rhedd Asylum

Me/

31 Dec 2006 at 22:55 - 55

As it has already been pointed out SF on it's own isn't a problem, it's that it wasn't testing thoroughly enough to see what it can do when multiple elementalists are running SF builds.
From my mesmers point of veiw, 1 SF elementalist has it's counters, it's doable. But a group of SFs I don't know of any mesmer skill that can stop that. Only having a group designed to counter that particular group could I see it being no problem, but that leaves an imbalance in that you don't want to force people into bringing a whole group to counter one thing.
It's a tricky pickle!

If they tweaked SF, it would only be to lower how effective it currently is when used in tandom by multiple eles.
I always wanted a skill added that increased ele damage if the target is being hit with all 4 elements. It would be useable by a single 9,9,9,9 build or it would be very cool used by a group of eles, each specializing in 1 of the four elements! They could name that skill Tetra Magic! Inspired from the good old Final Fantasy skill.

Here we go just for fun!
Mark of the Tetra. [Elite] Non-Attribute spell
25e, 1s cast, 30 second recharge
Target is hexed with the Mark of the Tetra for 30 seconds. If target is struck with elemental damage, that damage has an added +20% armour penetration. Mark of Tetra ends prematurely if target is hit with the same element twice within four elemental hits.

Here's another one!
Casting Streak Non-Attribute spell
10e, 1s cast, 30 second recharge
For 10 seconds you are enchanted with Casting Streak. Each spell cast while under the effects of Casting Streak lowers your casting time by a cumulative 10%. When Casting Streak ends you suffer exhaustion.

The Hand Of Death

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cavalon

The Last Pirates (SaVY)

N/

31 Dec 2006 at 23:28 - 56

Lengthening the recharge on SF will not really do anything unless the recharge is greater than 7 seconds, which makes it pretty much a sucky skill. Although SF is bound for a nerf, the only thing that will make it an actual nerf is if the area of effect is reduced to adjacent instead of near by foes.

rong626

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2006

hell

Woot

P/W

02 Jan 2007 at 07:52 - 57

i guess we will have to wait and see how Anet will nerf searing flames

Not A Fifty Five

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Creating guild

Mo/

02 Jan 2007 at 08:50 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

General Commentary: Anyone who doesn't believe in balencing for PvE and ALL forms of PvP really shouldn't say anything.

Elitist garbage like AB doesn't matter, or Fort Aspenwood doesn't matter, doesn't fly. They're pvp styles. They might not be YOUR pvp style, but they're somebody's and those somebody's bought the game just like you, they deserved balenced skills just as much.

If you have an issue with that fact, cram it.

Sorry, AB isn't pvp, its going to a cap site and killing NPCs. If someone says something works good in AB and RA but nothing else, it basically sucks.

As for searing flames. I say reduce the fire duration to like immolate.

aron searle

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/

02 Jan 2007 at 09:23 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five

Sorry, AB isn't pvp,

Then some of those npcs are pretty realistic at acting like people and being rude

Quote:

its going to a cap site and killing NPCs.

Remind me, what does a guild lord do?

kKagari

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

02 Jan 2007 at 12:26 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by aron searle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not A Fifty Five
Sorry, AB isn't pvp,

Then some of those npcs are pretty realistic at acting like people and being rude

Quote:
its going to a cap site and killing NPCs.

Remind me, what does a guild lord do?

LOL

but seriously, just because some certain pvp might not be your flavor doesnt really constitute the fact its not player vs player

BahamutKaiser

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Heightened state of mind.

P/W

02 Jan 2007 at 21:05 - 61

Elementist doesn't include a variety of support and healing magics, so pretending that having powerful Ritualist nukes has any comparison is broken.

A vast sum of Elementist skills are overpriced in energy, recast and even casting time, making them unacceptable in most situations, the weakness of Elementist spells is so great that Elementist as a class suffers. And you actually think that the nuking class in the game shouldn't have the most powerful nukes? WTF are you smoking? Obviously a class which lacks armor, healing, fast casting, and interruption earns a greater share of damage, it is balance.

Yes I would complain if Rit had a stronger nuke than Ele, obviously Elementist is a nuke class and Rit is a support class, what kind of idiotic question is that?

shardfenix

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Il Power Overwhelming Il [HaX]

02 Jan 2007 at 21:52 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by rong626

Searing Flames
Increase Energy Cost
OR
Casues Exhaustion
OR
Reduce Burning Time
OR
Increase Skill Recharge

You seem like a newbie to pvp, so instead of insulting you like I do for everybody else, I will tell you why those are bad ideas.

It is obvious by looking at SF that Anet wanted it to be spammable. Increasing the cost or giving it exhaustion contradicts that fact, so those are bad nerf options.

As per the other 2 options, you're not looking at the problem of SF. It isn't the burning or the damage. I can solo a SF ele with almost any build and kill it quite quickly. SF is only good in groups, where either they have multiple SFers or you have multiple people balled up waiting to die.

The best way to nerf SF is to decrease the area it affects.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rong626

Storm Dijin Haste
Increase The Amount Of Energy Lost While Moving(losing 1 energy each time is nothing)

SDH is fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rong626

Offering Of Blood
Increase Energy Cost(if so,decrease sac health)
OR
Increase Skill Recharge

Offering of blood sucks. It already got nerfed, it doesnt need another one.

Retribution X

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Check behind you again.

N/

02 Jan 2007 at 23:15 - 63

My opinion on SF,

Reduce Energy cost to 5 energy, Make cast time 2 seconds.

Simple, Easier to spam, and Interruptable.

Amity and Truth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

W/N

02 Jan 2007 at 23:40 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retribution X

My opinion on SF,
Reduce Energy cost to 5 energy, Make cast time 2 seconds.
Simple, Easier to spam, and Interruptable.

And pretty much gone from any form of PVP for the time being.

JMUN23

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2005

Knights of Avalia

E/Mo

02 Jan 2007 at 23:50 - 65

To all the people in favor of nerfing SF and Storm Dijinn's Haste:

Let's look at the overall aspects of Elementalist (mages) versus Warriors. First, I believe it's in the handbook that Elementalists are supposed to dish out the most damage, but who really does in PvP? It's the Warriors. Then let's look at any other game. Mages dominate PvP in most other RPG games. So why should SF be changed when it's one of the only mass damage spells that doesn't cause rediculous side effects? I'm guessing since you're not competent enough to overcome an SF build they should just nerf it all together to make it on easier on you. I suppose Elementalists should just run around echoing Meteor Shower like they do in PvE. Would you all prefer that? Really now, can we not change Elementalists back into flag runners?

As for Storm Dijinn's Haste, why should this be changed exactly? Warriors and Rangers don't have to be set of fire or lose energy when they run. Warriors don't even need that much energy so why are you asking to take more energy away from a class that needs it? Oh well. Your mind probably can't comprehend my explaination so I'm going to end this now and not waste anymore of my time.

Gregslot

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Me/

02 Jan 2007 at 23:50 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Its only over powered if you come up against its in PvP and you havent had the sense to bring an anti-casting spell.

SF is a elite spell which actually lives up the title of elite.

It offers great recharge time and low energy cost. Unlike every other elite skill ingame which is no better then its normal counterpart.

Stop winging about it and just re-think your party and skills when you play PvP.

And its not that impressive a skill. It soon drains your energy if you continually use it. Once an elemental looses all their energy by spamming it, you can wipe the floor with them.

BTW, yes I am an elemental. If your NOT, then Id say i have more idea what im talking about then you.

Yes, i am an Elementalist. I do play a lot with my elementalist, but i also play a lot with my other charcters.
Yes, it is A Elite skill. But compared to the others, its just freaking powerful, the gap between Glimmering Mark (a bad ele elite) and Searing Flames (the best elite, in my point of view) its just huge. If you put into a balance compared to the other ele elites, it will allways be havier at SF's side, this is called balance, one skill weights more then another.

I think Sandstorm its a little overpowering, 10 secs its too much compared to the other earth skills (taking into consideration that the others aoe skills lasts 5 secs).
Invoke Lighting its good, just that.
Shatterstone its also good, but its bad because it easily removable.

In my point of view, Searing Flames was supposed to be spammable, but it wasnt supposed to deal soo much dmg, they should reduce the aditional dmg to Immolate's level

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

03 Jan 2007 at 09:29 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

Yes, i am an Elementalist. I do play a lot with my elementalist, but i also play a lot with my other charcters.
Yes, it is A Elite skill. But compared to the others, its just freaking powerful, the gap between Glimmering Mark (a bad ele elite) and Searing Flames (the best elite, in my point of view) its just huge. If you put into a balance compared to the other ele elites, it will allways be havier at SF's side, this is called balance, one skill weights more then another.

I think Sandstorm its a little overpowering, 10 secs its too much compared to the other earth skills (taking into consideration that the others aoe skills lasts 5 secs).
Invoke Lighting its good, just that.
Shatterstone its also good, but its bad because it easily removable.

In my point of view, Searing Flames was supposed to be spammable, but it wasnt supposed to deal soo much dmg, they should reduce the aditional dmg to Immolate's level

If you dont want an elemental using a spammable, powerfull spell then INTERUPT THEM, or DRAIN THEIR ENERGY, or cause all their spells to take longer to cast, or just get out of the AoE once its cast.

There are countless ways to interupt, distrupt and prevent an elemental from casting. The most effective being to remove their enchantments and wait for their energy to drain.

Stop winging just because your having your ass kicked by someone.

And I dont give a toss about PvP.

I play PvE. I dont care whether people arent intelligent enough to bring a decent build, or a decent team to stop elementals using their skills in PvP.

This is just the usual ranting ofs someone who cant be bothered to change their build to counter a powerfull spell, and typically its a PvP player who doesnt consider the impact it will have on PvE.

SF is a god send in PvE. Its about time we had a spell which we can effectively spam, instead of just getting one or two shots out of it.

You actually state that elementals are meant to do high yeild damage. Yet the minute we actually get a spell which lets us do that, you complain.

Gregslot

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Me/

03 Jan 2007 at 12:25 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

And I dont give a toss about PvP.

Well i guess that puts and end to our little discussion doesnt it?
If u want to look at only one side of the picture, so sorry. Your lack of perspective will make you see this way, allways.

What is the point of wiping out the mobs with an insane skill? The other classes doesnt do that, why elementalists should and the others shouldnt?
This riminds me of Diablo2. Sorceress could cast tons of spells that destroyed everthing in sight, and Assassins, as an example, had to hit and run and at every 3 hits he could do that damage, at one target.
Thats the sort of thing they dont want in the game.
This skills its just too powerful compared to all the rest of the skills, is that too hard to see?

Nowadays im hardly ever playing PvP, not because "my ass is getting kicked", i jsut because i dont want to, my choice, nothing to do with skills, builds, noobs, saddam getting hanged. And you say "typically its a PvP player who doesnt consider the impact it will have on PvE.", this game works the other way around, and at this case, is effecting PvE.
And it seems to me, that YOU dont want to change your build because you will get your ass kicked.

This reminds me of the old IWAY discussion, IWAY players used to say "its not overpowering", there you got, it got nerfed to its oblivion. And it really was a overpowering build.

At the end, Searing Flames is bad for PvP and bad for PvE.

Get used to it, Searing Flames IS getting nerfed.

Zonzai

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

E/

03 Jan 2007 at 20:09 - 69

Searing Flames is hardly in need of a nerf.

Bale_Shadowscar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Manchester, England

New Dragons [NDR]

03 Jan 2007 at 23:01 - 70

*puts on flame proof suit*

God, I'm sure the ANet skill balances don't have this kind of flame war when deciding how to rebalance skills.

Lets move away from whether Fort Aspenwood is PvP or not, or whether the OP knows anything about skill balancing, or anything like that.

There are loads of other ways to balance the skills than decrease their power:

How about adding extra effects into SF (OK, some people say its overpowered, some people say its fine, lets go with overpowered simply because it was the idea in the OP to nerf it, and the fact that although perhaps not devastating on its own, it can seem overpowered when used by more than 2 eles on a team)

Extra effects: Of course, we could make it "easily interuptable" (like that monk spell, forgot which one), but that would seem a bit overkill. But how about this: Make it half the normal spell range?

This doesn't decrease its power or dangerousness one bit, but makes it so that eles have to be more careful when using it. Either that, or how about a Star Burst kind of effect? If it hits more than one (or X) foes, the caster loses health/energy?

Or, another way which would please most people, is to increase the power of skills which counter it: Martyr, Frigid armor, lots of things like that: make them more tempting to come on to peoples skillbars for reasons other than just countering SF.

Bowstring Badass

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Character selection screen figuring what I want to play...

Purple Lingerie - :D

03 Jan 2007 at 23:10 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMUN23

To all the people in favor of nerfing SF and Storm Dijinn's Haste:

Let's look at the overall aspects of Elementalist (mages) versus Warriors. First, I believe it's in the handbook that Elementalists are supposed to dish out the most damage, but who really does in PvP? It's the Warriors. Then let's look at any other game. Mages dominate PvP in most other RPG games. So why should SF be changed when it's one of the only mass damage spells that doesn't cause rediculous side effects? I'm guessing since you're not competent enough to overcome an SF build they should just nerf it all together to make it on easier on you. I suppose Elementalists should just run around echoing Meteor Shower like they do in PvE. Would you all prefer that? Really now, can we not change Elementalists back into flag runners?

As for Storm Dijinn's Haste, why should this be changed exactly? Warriors and Rangers don't have to be set of fire or lose energy when they run. Warriors don't even need that much energy so why are you asking to take more energy away from a class that needs it? Oh well. Your mind probably can't comprehend my explaination so I'm going to end this now and not waste anymore of my time.

Sins, Wars, Eles, and some Dervish builds can dish out dps. Wars can spike with 2 with the help of shatter. Sins can do some amazing dps but get owned becuase of low armor and are mostly used as gank not frontline. Ele's are powerful but have low armor but have many defenses vs melee (b-surge b flash and so on). If anything needs to be nerfed I think it is Shadow Prison(E) maybe make it like 10 energy and like 3/4 a sec cast. How many sins do you see using another elite? Hell even I run Shadow Prison and I think it's overpowered other then the length. Dervish have alright armor high dps making them a better frontline. Warriors can dish dps but to many counters vs all the melee classes as stated above.

rong626

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2006

hell

Woot

P/W

04 Jan 2007 at 07:13 - 72

Next week,skill balancing update will be released.Well of course i want mystic regen nerfed too..

Moa Bird Cultist

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Hastings (UK) / Latham (USA)

Freedom Fanatical Scots [FFS]

E/W

04 Jan 2007 at 12:24 - 73

What frojack said...

Oh and pigdestroyer, just cause we're PvE players, it doesn't mean that we don't count. If you cant see or at least accept that much, the person that needs to gtfo is you. Same goes for freekedoutfish and hid refusal to see the PvP sideof the discussion. Honestly, this applies to anyone who refuses to see both sides of an arguement. In this case, the merits and potential power of searing flames need to be looked at from both sides of the coin. So as a PvE player, I'm gonna look at the PvP aspect first.

The way I see it, the problem most PvPers have with this skill is it's power when cast in multiples. At this moment, it would seem, SF is undeniably the best spike skill in the game and given it's capacity in such a situation, much as I don't like it, is destined for the scrapheap.

Now, lets look at the same skill from a PvE aspect, shall we? In casual PvE, 2 SF heroes is enough to make the majority of the game a cakewalk, meaning that in that respect, it is overpowered. BUT, and it's a big but, when you get to high end content like DoA, there are few builds that are actually runnable. SF is one of these few builds. Now on a side note, I'm not for the nerfing of DoA at all, but I'm certainly not in favour of it being even more difficult...

I still think an indirect nerf via glowing gaze would be the best option. That way, the ele will have to think twice about spamming it, but the actual power of the skill itself won't be upset too greatly.

Next up, Gregslot, yes Sandstorm is insanely powerful, but there is one small problem with it - even a lame duck could interrupt it's 2 second cast time. PvP wise, I can only see it being used widely with fast casting and glyph of elemental power. In PvE however, it's runnable as it is, because interrupts are not as prevalent.

Anarion Silverhand

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2005

Denmark

None

04 Jan 2007 at 14:28 - 74

Deleted some posts. Let's not turn this into a PvE vs. PvP discussion. Try to stay on topic, and let's get a real discussion going

-Anarion

Sophitia Leafblade

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Dragon Slayer Guild [DSG]

R/

04 Jan 2007 at 14:39 - 75

I dont think SF needs a nerf, but if it really has to, why not just boost the energy cost to 25 to keep in on par with rodgorts innvocation which is a great skill. Keep the damage and burning the same, dont add exhuastion. then it still has its spikeability but lacks as much spammability.

Sandstorm is easy to avoid it doesnt need a nerf.

What does need a nerf is Rampage as one, it should be made a stance at the vey least

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

04 Jan 2007 at 14:56 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

Well i guess that puts and end to our little discussion doesnt it?
If u want to look at only one side of the picture, so sorry. Your lack of perspective will make you see this way, allways.

If I want to look at one side of the picture?

Every person who has posted against SF has made their points based around PvP.

This entire debate is biased because everyone wants this skill nerfed because of its effects in PvP.

There isnt a single anti-SF poster who has considered how good this spell is to use in PvE. I'm not the one who isnt considering the larger picture and the over-all effects of nerfing this spell.

But ofcourse the opinion of someone in PvE isnt as important as a PvP player is it? It doesnt matter what effects changing this spell would have on PvE, because our opinions dont count.

The OP actually didnt state anywhere as to why or how these skills need nerfed. He didnt state whether it was PvP or PvE related. But as soon as the post was made, all the PvP'ers jumped on the band wagon and assumed it was PvP related.

I may be wrong here, but I've not seen anyone else in this thread jump to the defence of SF because its a good PvE skill.

If im wrong, I apologise. But dont accuse me of being biased and one-sided, considering the entire content of this thread sways towards the views of PvP'ers.

So speaking in defense of SF in terms of PvE (because yes, I dont give a rats ass about PvP), it doesnt need nerfed. Its an elite skill... it should be powerfull and it should be effective. Its one of the few elite skills which actually lives up to being elite.

Its the one and only fire elite skill that I can think of which actually stands alone at being a good elite skill.

Every other fire elite spell is just as mundain as the none-elite spells. Nothing to write home about, and certainly nothing worthy of "elite".

But again... it is NOT a perfect spell. Echo'ing SF will soon drain your energy regardless of attunement. Especially considering you cant use elite elemental attunement at the same time. This leaves you only able to use fire attunement and far less return on energy.

In terms of PvP, as ive said alot now; Use a build or a party build, to counter elemental casting if you feel SF is such a pain in the a**.

lishi

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

04 Jan 2007 at 15:15 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

If I want to look at one side of the picture?

Every person who has posted against SF has made their points based around PvP.

This entire debate is biased because everyone wants this skill nerfed because of its effects in PvP.

There isnt a single anti-SF poster who has considered how good this spell is to use in PvE. I'm not the one who isnt considering the larger picture and the over-all effects of nerfing this spell.

But ofcourse the opinion of someone in PvE isnt as important as a PvP player is it? It doesnt matter what effects changing this spell would have on PvE, because our opinions dont count.

The OP actually didnt state anywhere as to why or how these skills need nerfed. He didnt state whether it was PvP or PvE related. But as soon as the post was made, all the PvP'ers jumped on the band wagon and assumed it was PvP related.

I may be wrong here, but I've not seen anyone else in this thread jump to the defence of SF because its a good PvE skill.

If im wrong, I apologise. But dont accuse me of being biased and one-sided, considering the entire content of this thread sways towards the views of PvP'ers.

Skill balance dont mean neccesary nerf skill you dont like.

when i pve i always take 2 ele ele with searing flame then the last choose is open for either.

- required hero for mission/quest.
- minion master
- searing flame necro.
- broad head arrow if i know there are some annoying ele boss.

when i play with one friend we take 4 ele , us x 2, 2 monk. guess what.

nothing last more then 10 second.

Skill balance are meant for both the way.

if a skill is overpowered in pve it will get nerfed.

if a skill is overpowered in pvp it will get nerfed.

Sophitia Leafblade

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Dragon Slayer Guild [DSG]

R/

04 Jan 2007 at 15:47 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Its an elite skill... it should be powerfull and it should be effective.

QFT

Elites are meant to be powerful thats why they are Elites. Considering the damage and or effects of alot of other elites theres nothing wrong with it. If it was non elite then yeah i would need nerfing but as it is it doesnt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

when i play with one friend we take 4 ele , us x 2, 2 monk. guess what.
nothing last more then 10 second.

That can be said from the spamming of alot of skills, no one claims about them needing nerfing because there not used as much. The reason people want Sf to be nerfed is because its fotm. If it does get nerfed people will just change to another spike skill for the same effect.

lacasner

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

04 Jan 2007 at 16:23 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

Skill balance are meant for both the way.

if a skill is overpowered in pve it will get nerfed.

if a skill is overpowered in pvp it will get nerfed.

This is interesting and true, but I never thought I would need a big variety of skills in pve, because I practically kept like 12 of them for each class and I did fine throughout all 3 storylines. I mean, when I started this game I wondered why I even needed these skills in pve, because after all I am fighting computer controlled creatures not other people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I may be wrong here, but I've not seen anyone else in this thread jump to the defence of SF because its a good PvE skill.

If im wrong, I apologise. But dont accuse me of being biased and one-sided, considering the entire content of this thread sways towards the views of PvP'ers.

Well, as much as you and me may not like it, it is a pvp game, and hate it or love it I have to live with it, so basically I just got used to it. Skill changes and such "should" in the steriotypical manner that I am addressing it in affect pvpers, I mean they are actually in need of using these skills the most imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarion Silverhand

Deleted some posts. Let's not turn this into a PvE vs. PvP discussion. Try to stay on topic, and let's get a real discussion going

And what type of pve+pvp discussion would'nt be important? Just because some people tend to turn it into a flame war doesn't mean that it isn't important. It is very important, and should be discussed, at least I think so.

Moa Bird Cultist

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Hastings (UK) / Latham (USA)

Freedom Fanatical Scots [FFS]

E/W

04 Jan 2007 at 17:39 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

If I want to look at one side of the picture?

Every person who has posted against SF has made their points based around PvP.

This entire debate is biased because everyone wants this skill nerfed because of its effects in PvP.

There isnt a single anti-SF poster who has considered how good this spell is to use in PvE. I'm not the one who isnt considering the larger picture and the over-all effects of nerfing this spell.

But ofcourse the opinion of someone in PvE isnt as important as a PvP player is it? It doesnt matter what effects changing this spell would have on PvE, because our opinions dont count.

The OP actually didnt state anywhere as to why or how these skills need nerfed. He didnt state whether it was PvP or PvE related. But as soon as the post was made, all the PvP'ers jumped on the band wagon and assumed it was PvP related.

I may be wrong here, but I've not seen anyone else in this thread jump to the defence of SF because its a good PvE skill.

If im wrong, I apologise. But dont accuse me of being biased and one-sided, considering the entire content of this thread sways towards the views of PvP'ers.

So speaking in defense of SF in terms of PvE (because yes, I dont give a rats ass about PvP), it doesnt need nerfed. Its an elite skill... it should be powerfull and it should be effective. Its one of the few elite skills which actually lives up to being elite.

Its the one and only fire elite skill that I can think of which actually stands alone at being a good elite skill.

Every other fire elite spell is just as mundain as the none-elite spells. Nothing to write home about, and certainly nothing worthy of "elite".

But again... it is NOT a perfect spell. Echo'ing SF will soon drain your energy regardless of attunement. Especially considering you cant use elite elemental attunement at the same time. This leaves you only able to use fire attunement and far less return on energy.

In terms of PvP, as ive said alot now; Use a build or a party build, to counter elemental casting if you feel SF is such a pain in the a**.

Everything you say is quite relevant, I especially agree that the lack of reasoning in the OP didn't exactly get the thread off on the right foot. After all, it irked me enough to post, didn't it?

But I think to get the best picture of why SF may well need a touch from the nerfbat, you should set up a PvE team designed to utilise it the same way it is used in PvP. I think once the mobs start rolling in a matter of seconds, you'll see why it's hated by so many in PvP. One SF ele can be shut down by a mesmer. Two SF eles can be shut down by a good mesmer, but 4 or more SF eles are gonna roll whatever gets in their way, unless the opposite team or mob is loaded with anti caster skills. The trouble with balancing from a PvE point of view is all the extra details you have to take into account - bosses, elemental vulnerabilities and resistances, area effects, how enemy ai will use the skill. So you cant look at it the same way, but it would give some insight if you were to do this anyway.

And I still say change glowing gaze to something like what I suggested