Useless skills?

Hand of Ruin

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2006

07 Jan 2007 at 23:05 - 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redfeather1975
I'm guessing wary stance is the way it is so that it can be used at a moment's notice. Even at the beginning of a fight because it requires no adrenaline to use. Since it charges up energy and adrenaline,I'm guessing it can also be used to build up adrenaline when used in anticipation of a melee spike from an enemy in order to fuel an adrenaline based counter attack.
Wow, have you ever played this game?

necrosfeelyaks

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

Error Seven Opperators [Call]

Mo/

07 Jan 2007 at 23:14 - 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by realoddsman
I find death nova to be quite useless...
First of all, this and many other opinions in this thread are quite useless and obviously coming from people that haven't played PvP at all.... I have found, that there are hardelety any usless skills in GW, save Keystone signet, and O. Cry, but even they can at least do something... just not very effectively

I wish they would close this thread...

Sli Ander

Sli Ander

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Deep in Maguuma, by the Falls

Liberators of Agony

Mo/R

07 Jan 2007 at 23:36 - 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by necrosfeelyaks
First of all, this and many other opinions in this thread are quite useless and obviously coming from people that haven't played PvP at all.... I have found, that there are hardelety any usless skills in GW, save Keystone signet, and O. Cry, but even they can at least do something... just not very effectively

I wish they would close this thread...
I'm kinda trying to keep my presence in this thread to a minimum, and it seems to be working as most "useless" skills posted are soon proven to have some value by someone that uses them. I do my best to comment, but only have a limited knowledge of skills outside monk and ranger.

I think someone actually posted a use for the Keystone signet a page or 2 ago, and O. Cry seems to be maintaining its status as "not very effective", though any ranger with a pet has some use for it.

I think the main thing in determining how good a skill is would be the synergy between them. The post concerning Keystone signet showed how the person used henchies to make it more useful, ethereal light became more useful by using skills that boost casting time. And all this was thought out before anyone thought about buffing attributes of certain skills, or before any new skills came out.
Cause the real point is, if we can figure out good uses for these skills(even the few mediocre ones I put in my op), what will we be able to do with them if they do get buffed/changed? What if Otyugh's cry was changed to affect all non-spirit summoned creatures(i.e. minions)? Wouldn't that make it more useful on a bp team? What if a bunch of new skills are added which allow players to take unexpected advantage of current skills?

What I'm trying to say with this thread is to make the best possible use, obscure or otherwise, of the skills you have. Because if you can use even the worst skill to its full potential through whatever means, then I can't wait to see what happens when things come along to make that skill better.

but that's just my two cents

NeHoMaR

NeHoMaR

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

08 Jan 2007 at 06:44 - 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Andicus
Seeing as you obviously didnt read the rest of the thread where the reasoning was explained, i'll explain again.

If you link it to a non primary attribute, you can then put attribute points in it for a 2nd profession. If you can boost it as a secondary profession you start getting unblindable warriors running around all over the place, and you REALLY dont want that.
Wahahaha! man, what's up with you?

[skill]Plague Touch[/skill] [skill]Remedy Signet[/skill] both unlinked, fast cast, fast recharge, cheap; and you have your "unblindable" warrior.

With that I enter in the topic, being [skill]Sight Beyond Sight[/skill] one of the useless skills of the game, because is linked to the wrong attribute AND wrong profession (being the skill a self one)

Imagine, for example, [skill]Conjure Lightning[/skill] linked to Energy Storage, OMG!

Redfeather1975

Redfeather1975

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

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Rhedd Asylum

Me/

08 Jan 2007 at 07:33 - 85
Arredondo, one of the best skill builders I've seen on the gwonline forums, once told me to try and figure out why the developers made that skill in the first place. They had a reason for making it, they know the game's mechanics inside out and backwards better than any of us, and they tested it for quite some time before releasing it. Try and figure that out.
Sure some skills prove to be too powerful when combined with several others, but the original intention of all skills being made were tested before release.

For example, Sight Beyond Sight was only intended to be used be with a ritualist. It's used by Rt/R, Rt/A, Rt/W, Rt/P and goes well with Spirit's Strength.
You could say don't make a ritualist, make a Paragon, Ranger, Warrior or Assassin primary instead if you want to do physical attacks, but in PVE it's nice to have the flexibility to play many roles for various types of missions or quests. Why would the developers want that? We have to think about that.


BTW, Hand of Ruin, I haven't played a warrior much at all. You could help me out by telling me why you said that. It would be appreciated.

Redfeather1975

Redfeather1975

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Me/

08 Jan 2007 at 07:33 - 86
Noooo. Again? I got to learn to hit reply only once, even if it says an error.

Skuld

Skuld

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Join Date: Sep 2005

Thousend Tigers Apund Ur Head [Ttgr]

A/

08 Jan 2007 at 09:03 - 87
Nehomer, if its so useless then why is spirit's strength on every arena Rt/P/W/R/D/A, and seeing use with extend enchantments on a D/Rt? Immunity from blind is not something that should be easily available >.<

Symbol

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

08 Jan 2007 at 09:08 - 88
Neither plague touch nor remedy signet nor any other condition removal make warriors "unblindable", anyone who has played the profession for longer than 5 minutes should realize that.

Bankai

Bankai

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Join Date: Sep 2006

Bubblegum Dragons

Mo/E

08 Jan 2007 at 09:09 - 89
Well, noone ever spikes you when you're on a warrior. Ever. Except if you're over-extending like hell, in which case you should be dead already.

dgb

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/Me

08 Jan 2007 at 09:32 - 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by False Truth
[skill]Sight Beyond Sight[/skill]

"Enchantment Spell. For 8...18 seconds, you cannot be Blinded."

There's no reason for this skill in terms of a long range profession. It would have been better as a non primary attribute skill.
It sees use on Dervishes with extend enchantment. It's such a powerful effect it needs to be really hard to get/impossible to endless chain. I've seen it on warriors for 8s of blind-clear and as noted, Dervishes can chain it permanently. Doesn't need any changes.

Redfeather1975

Redfeather1975

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08 Jan 2007 at 09:34 - 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bankai
Well, noone ever spikes you when you're on a warrior. Ever. Except if you're over-extending like hell, in which case you should be dead already.
I think I screwed up in saying spike. I meant if a warrior is fighting someone and anticapates a combo of melee attacks, they could use wary stance to block and gain adrenaline. I haven't played a warrior much and was assuming that warrior players make builds to tackle specific professions. If they generally don't then I imagine they'd probably never use wary stance as it's too situational.
I'm used to playing a mesmer and making builds that focus on standing against a particular profession or two and was using my past experience in looking at that warrior stance.

Deleet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Denmark

Rule Thirty Four [prOn]

Mo/

08 Jan 2007 at 11:11 - 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redfeather1975
I think I screwed up in saying spike. I meant if a warrior is fighting someone and anticapates a combo of melee attacks, they could use wary stance to block and gain adrenaline. I haven't played a warrior much and was assuming that warrior players make builds to tackle specific professions. If they generally don't then I imagine they'd probably never use wary stance as it's too situational.
I'm used to playing a mesmer and making builds that focus on standing against a particular profession or two and was using my past experience in looking at that warrior stance.
Too expensive, long recharge and noone in their right mind uses attacks against warriors? - except when spiking, and again you usually choose a weaker target with lower AL. Wary stance is really just a farming PvE skill, could probably find a reasonable combo with the adren shout that recharges a stance.

Bankai

Bankai

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Join Date: Sep 2006

Bubblegum Dragons

Mo/E

08 Jan 2007 at 11:48 - 93
Yes, as a warrior, your main focus is to take out squishies (monks and mesmes, mainly). As long as they are down, you shouldn't have major problems taking down warrior anyway. Yes, Anti-warrior builds excist for warrior, but you only see them in AB and Pve in the form of Dolyak signet and Riposte tanks. With no damage output.

KingKryton

KingKryton

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

New Zealand

W/Mo

08 Jan 2007 at 12:19 - 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc

[skill]Wary Stance[/skill]

This is very similar to Bonetti's Defense, except that (1) it uses energy versus adrenaline and (2) it ONLY works on attack SKILLS (and not just normal attacks). I haven't seen any primary or secondary warrior build that has incorporated this skill over another stance.


I may think of more...
i find wary stance very useful. i used it for chest runs in raisu that are heavily populated by archers. its very effective because by using charge + endure pain + wary stance i can get through very large mobs and come out with full health and full energy.

Jetdoc

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

08 Jan 2007 at 15:01 - 95
Wow...lots of wonderful uses for Wary Stance that I hadn't previously considered. This thread definitely has merit when you look at the responses to that previously unheralded skill.

Regarding Protective - you guys are missing the point. Generous was Tsungrai heals for more for 5 less energy and a shorter recharge time. The only benefit to Protective is that it is automatic, while Generous requires you to drop the item. If you're being spiked, most of us can realize when the spike is occurring and have the ability to drop Generous before the spike is complete, which makes Generous > Protective.

I can see Protective have a function in running, as you have to pause for Generous to work. Protective is also better if you've been knocked down, as you have to wait to get back up before you can drop Generous.

Jetdoc

Jetdoc

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Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

08 Jan 2007 at 15:02 - 96
By the way, has anyone else found other uses for Rigor Mortis? I know I tried it with a W/N on a one-on-one battle once, which helps you get past the ripostes and deadly ripostes...

Kryth

Kryth

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Ascalon

Venatori Solaris

08 Jan 2007 at 15:12 - 97


~ Vengeance =_=

Physical

Physical

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

The Netherlands

Needs a GvG guild..

R/Mo

08 Jan 2007 at 15:16 - 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by realoddsman
I find death nova to be quite useless...
Now lets see.. Why?
If you like make a minion factory with all melee damage minions (so they are close to the target) and you just let them die.. I mean if like 5 minions die they can get up to 400 damage..

(no recharge)
(low energy)

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

08 Jan 2007 at 15:17 - 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
By the way, has anyone else found other uses for Rigor Mortis? I know I tried it with a W/N on a one-on-one battle once, which helps you get past the ripostes and deadly ripostes...
Last time I used Rigor Mortis vs. the Ripostes, the attack would go through but I would still suffer the damage (this was back before they received any buffs). Did this change?

pnumm

pnumm

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2006

Crystal Overlook!

[CPSU]

Rt/R

08 Jan 2007 at 15:35 - 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sli Ander
I'm kinda trying to keep my presence in this thread to a minimum, and it seems to be working as most "useless" skills posted are soon proven to have some value by someone that uses them. I do my best to comment, but only have a limited knowledge of skills outside monk and ranger.

I think someone actually posted a use for the Keystone signet a page or 2 ago, and O. Cry seems to be maintaining its status as "not very effective", though any ranger with a pet has some use for it.

I think the main thing in determining how good a skill is would be the synergy between them. The post concerning Keystone signet showed how the person used henchies to make it more useful, ethereal light became more useful by using skills that boost casting time. And all this was thought out before anyone thought about buffing attributes of certain skills, or before any new skills came out.
Cause the real point is, if we can figure out good uses for these skills(even the few mediocre ones I put in my op), what will we be able to do with them if they do get buffed/changed? What if Otyugh's cry was changed to affect all non-spirit summoned creatures(i.e. minions)? Wouldn't that make it more useful on a bp team? What if a bunch of new skills are added which allow players to take unexpected advantage of current skills?

What I'm trying to say with this thread is to make the best possible use, obscure or otherwise, of the skills you have. Because if you can use even the worst skill to its full potential through whatever means, then I can't wait to see what happens when things come along to make that skill better.

but that's just my two cents
Sorry, my post was pure sarcasm, do you really thing will echo arcane mimicry to copy echo? Heroes are quite useless at using echo, not to mention keystone Signet. Even though you could repeat SoJ quite often, this really isn't worth 3 elite slots.

ShadowStorm

ShadowStorm

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Take me where I cannot stand.

The Better Part of Valor

W/N

08 Jan 2007 at 16:51 - 101
[skill]Wary Stance[/skill]

Wary Stance isn't useless. My warrior brings this whenever I know I'll have to run through a lot of Shiroken without fighting them. Like on the Rajazan Farming run.

bhavv

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

08 Jan 2007 at 16:56 - 102
[skill]"The Power Is Yours!"[/skill]
So how come theres 5 pages on worst skills and this BS doesnt even get mentioned?

Edit - trying to figure how to link the skill icon

Sli Ander

Sli Ander

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Deep in Maguuma, by the Falls

Liberators of Agony

Mo/R

08 Jan 2007 at 20:16 - 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
[skill]"The Power Is Yours!"[/skill]
So how come theres 5 pages on worst skills and this BS doesnt even get mentioned?

Edit - trying to figure how to link the skill icon
got this off wiki
This skill costs a total of 43 1/3 energy between the initial cost, energy degeneration and lost energy regeneration, which is likely to drain the paragon completely. If, however, it is used with only 10 energy, it only causes a loss of 16 2/3 energy plus any energy gained from Leadership.

I think in most cases Never Give Up might be better, because the penalty of only giving energy to those under 75% health isn't that bad. Only thing about that is your casters might not be under 75%. My take on this(and I'm no paragon expert) is that you could probably counter it completely using one energy gain shout, blood ritual, and the leadership line. There are probably ways to minimize the effectiveness of the energy degen, like the wiki excerpt states, the problem is finding the ideal time for it to work.

Any paragon experts out there?

NeHoMaR

NeHoMaR

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

08 Jan 2007 at 22:37 - 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
By the way, has anyone else found other uses for Rigor Mortis? I know I tried it with a W/N on a one-on-one battle once, which helps you get past the ripostes and deadly ripostes...
Rigor Mortis? The obvious use for me is an Assassin, the only melee that really NEED hit combos for damage. And assassins also have skills based in if the target is hexed.

Brother Andicus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Scotland

The Illuminati

09 Jan 2007 at 00:00 - 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhavv
[skill]"The Power Is Yours!"[/skill]
So how come theres 5 pages on worst skills and this BS doesnt even get mentioned?

Edit - trying to figure how to link the skill icon
As mentioned above. 10 energy degeneration really makes little difference if you dont have any energy after the initial cast. Paragon also has access to a bunch of adrenal skills that A) dont require energy and B) in combination with leadership provide quite a large energy gain. Given a bar with 3/4 adren based shouts/chants it would be easy to be back at +20 energy within seconds of the degen wearing off.

I'm not about to say this is a great skill, its not, but it is another that is far from useless.

Brother Andicus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Scotland

The Illuminati

09 Jan 2007 at 00:16 - 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeHoMaR
Wahahaha! man, what's up with you?

[skill]Plague Touch[/skill] [skill]Remedy Signet[/skill] both unlinked, fast cast, fast recharge, cheap; and you have your "unblindable" warrior.

With that I enter in the topic, being [skill]Sight Beyond Sight[/skill] one of the useless skills of the game, because is linked to the wrong attribute AND wrong profession (being the skill a self one)

Imagine, for example, [skill]Conjure Lightning[/skill] linked to Energy Storage, OMG!
Dude, that is quite possibly the most stupid post I have seen in a long time. I guess you either didnt play warrior in GvG recently or you play at around r3000.

Blinding surge blinds you every 4s. You can try to counter it with plague touch if you like, but you'll be out of energy in under 30s leaving you unable to use YAA, frenzy, burst of agression, sprint, crit chop......................
Go watch obs mode and tell me how many plague touch warriors you see. In the last 2 months I saw a grand total of 1.
Remedy sig works a little better seeing as it doesn't pwn your energy, you still only get 1 attack between blinds though.

BUT you kind of missed the point of a linked attribute. True, they aren't linked, but they don't scale either. Think before embarrasing yourself next time.

@Jetdoc
Rigor Mortis used to be used quite commonly for physical damage spikes(both Warrior and ranger). Its not so common any more due to the nerf of distortion and the proliferation of mesmers present in the current metagame(shatter enchant>>aegis for those that didnt get it).
It wouldnt suprise me at all if it sees a comeback in the future.

NeHoMaR

NeHoMaR

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

09 Jan 2007 at 01:16 - 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Andicus
Dude, that is quite possibly the most stupid post I have seen in a long time.
/sarcasm You are that one with the ignore list full, and friends list empty, right? Maybe you are one of the poster that suggest implement a infinite ignore list because your enemies list is too big? yeah, maybe you are, hahahaha! /end of sarcasm

Man, no need for that "defensive" position with me, I never flame anything in this forum, never; Maybe you misunderstood my post, my post is an personal opinion, not a flame, not a demonstration that who know more the game.

And yes, I play a lot melee, there are 5 melee professions in game, not only warrior, so it's obvious for someone that has one year playing like me Good night! and good luck!

Skyy High

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

09 Jan 2007 at 05:17 - 108
Sight Beyond Sight is still useful even at zero spawning power. It's 5 energy for 8 seconds of no blindness, and a 20 second recharge. That means nearly half the time you are blind free, and it's much cheaper than spamming plague touch.

Bale_Shadowscar

Bale_Shadowscar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Manchester, England

New Dragons [NDR]

09 Jan 2007 at 08:35 - 109
The point with Sight beyond Sight is that if it was in any other attribute, it would be very very abusable.

It can be used to good effect in a Spirit's Strength Rit build though.

NeHoMaR

NeHoMaR

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

09 Jan 2007 at 21:38 - 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bale_Shadowscar
The point with Sight beyond Sight is that if it was in any other attribute, it would be very very abusable.

It can be used to good effect in a Spirit's Strength Rit build though.
I have never been killed by a melee Ritualist, the Ritualists that kill me are the spirit spammers. And I play a lot PvP. Maybe I must make/test myself a build; I normally never even test a build that never kill me, but I am curious.

Obviously I try to play the builds (with my personal touch) that kick my ass all time in PvP, not Rt/A that just tickle my ankles.

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

10 Jan 2007 at 02:04 - 111
it would be nice to see some skill get some changes to them like warrior stances less recharge time and if you a skill it cancels out.Defencsive stance and Wary Stance I would re look at all of those stances.I would adjust some already nerfed skills if you bought them and what a waste of gold or skill cap to get a useless skill.

Bale_Shadowscar

Bale_Shadowscar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Manchester, England

New Dragons [NDR]

10 Jan 2007 at 08:57 - 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeHoMaR
I have never been killed by a melee Ritualist, the Ritualists that kill me are the spirit spammers. And I play a lot PvP. Maybe I must make/test myself a build; I normally never even test a build that never kill me, but I am curious.

Obviously I try to play the builds (with my personal touch) that kick my ass all time in PvP, not Rt/A that just tickle my ankles.
I play a Spirit's Strength Rit in RA sometimes. Despite the lack of armor (Their main weakness) they can actually dish out quite a bit of damage.

Age

Age

Hall Hero

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California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

17 Jan 2007 at 02:21 - 113
There is a skill that really needs a good over haul and that is Shield of Regeneration as no one use it even just in Prophecies alone no one would use it.It has a large use of energy and recharge time.I would suggest 10 enrergy and 20 to 15 sec. recharge time but for the most lessen the energy used by it.this is still not a bad elite skill anyways it need fixing.I would use it but not at 15 and 20 sec. recharge.

Naga The Apocalypse

Naga The Apocalypse

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2006

Diversionary Tactics [DT]

R/Me

19 Jan 2007 at 04:27 - 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rok
Umm, yeah. Because nobody uses a minion bomber build ever. Nobody ever dies so Death Nova is useless.

that statement is so untrue, do u ever pvp? i'm guessing not

XvArchonvX

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

19 Jan 2007 at 05:31 - 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryth


~ Vengeance =_=
That's actually not a bad skill for a MM. It's quick and gives you another corpse.

Skye Marin

Skye Marin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

E/A

19 Jan 2007 at 05:58 - 116
If you took:

[skill]Empowerment[/skill]

And reduced the recharge to 20 seconds, and increased the spirit level a few notches, it would be a really nice skill for a rit to cast off of. The only really viable off-casting skills are:

[skill]Destruction[/skill], [skill]Pain[/skill], and [skill]Preservation[/skill]

But these are either too expensive, too long a recharge, or an Elite

As far a really useless skills goes, I'm in favour of nominating:

[skill]Power Flux[/skill]

To fix this one, you'd need to change the energy degen to -3, and make the hex duration equivalent to whatever Power Leak would be (about 20 seconds).

xDusT II

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Melbourne

19 Jan 2007 at 06:34 - 117
very interesting that the skill icon posted above for power flux states that it recharges instantly if the target isn't casting a spell.
The actual skill description doesn't read this but if it did have this hidden feature, it would be a very viable spell if you missed an interrupt.

Former Ruling

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cedartown, Georgia

R/

19 Jan 2007 at 06:43 - 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by xDusT II
very interesting that the skill icon posted above for power flux states that it recharges instantly if the target isn't casting a spell.
The actual skill description doesn't read this but if it did have this hidden feature, it would be a very viable spell if you missed an interrupt.
That might be its effect from Betas and it hasn't been updated yet. Thats my best guess.

Mammoth

Mammoth

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

The Yakslappers

Mo/Me

19 Jan 2007 at 09:26 - 119
[skill]Balthazar's Pendulum[/skill] gets my vote.

Maybe if it returned any (or some) damage along with the knockdown to the foe causing it...

(Like a beefed up reversal of damage.)

Skuld

Skuld

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Thousend Tigers Apund Ur Head [Ttgr]

A/

19 Jan 2007 at 10:52 - 120
[skill]Mirrored Stance[/skill]

What about this behemoth. I'm thinking it would be more reliable just to bring your own copy of the stance, even asuming you could predict what the foe is using (elite stances, uh, Gladiator's Defense in dragon's lair? )

For PvP you might get a 1 sec duration natural stride if you're lucky, but in the cases of Dark Escape, Shadow of Haste (try get hold of that ), Frenzy etc, just bring your own.

A primer for black lotus strike etc? Siphon Speed ftw.