An idea about Favor/UW/FoW.

The "I have this and have that part"...its childish, and realy, its not like I dont have perfect gold and green(here since first day of GW..hard to say I dont have some goodies in my bag)

1, the current favor system is nothing like you said. You can pve, you can do everything the GW pve have to offer with out pvp. Story,missions, quest, trade, team with players/hero/hench and fight with monster, name it, you wont miss any of these because you dont pvp. From the start, the FOW/UW had been labble as an extra luxary and so is everything inside. Its extra, not pve or pvp, like the other end-game high-end map, there is a requirement for entery. In this case, its your nation won HA 5 times.
2, Now to be fair, there is a lot of things a pure PVPer will not get with out PVE, and last time I check, I dont see a lot of people sign for the "Give PVP more armor skin choice" "Let pvp choose thier pet and how they grow" want to guess what reason those people use?? And Pet's status does infact matter more then just look if you are playing a beastmaster build. Saying pve keep getting short end of the stick, and all those pvp bashing is not necessary, nor will it prove your point.

I am not you, nor would I want to be you.
However I will say this,
You can look at the PVP part of GW as something evil, and something that make your life go wrong everyday.
or
Look at pvp players as players just as you, and infact when they fight in HA they are fighting for the good of you and other player(like a nation rise and fall with their children at war, so lets support them thing).

and yes...again and again I do pve...I have 8 pve char and only 1 pvp, I pay attension to the story lines and mission, might even be more then your regular pveer, I make my own farming, mission, and just for fun builds. I do believe pve is a big part of GW, and feel those who bought pvp only package realy miss out on something good. But my stand is the same on pvp

/sarcasm on

Yes because it is really mature to whine about something instead of working for it, but waiting for someone to give it to you is really mature!!

/sarcasm off

Let me put it in terms you may understand a little better.

I don't care what you want. If you can't earn favour, you don't deserve to be in an "elite" area. Switch your account to Europe, and stop crying.

I'm suprised this thread isn't closed already. Everytime the subject comes up it gets slammed because, according to the mods, this thread covers it.

The OP has some interesting ideas but I like mine better. ;-)

Just in case thes thread does stay open. I'll post what I posted there for widest dissemination.

Who's whining? I've said that the current system is flawed. If you consider that whining, maybe you should look up the definition.

I’m not going to get sucked into a flame war with you, but your comment is ludicrous. If you don’t know what that means, look it up. This will be my last comment in this thread, so I you want to flame me go ahead. It may make you feel better if you can get in the last word.

1st part -- sorry you think that was my point with the "I have..." the point of that is that I don't want to go there to get rich, I just want to be able to go there and play...fine with me if they change it to just drop normal stuff like any other PvE area, point was I don't need ecto or shards, I am not a bot or a e-bay seller, and I am not a farmer of anything (except Lightbringer points and XP so I can get skill hunter title)

2nd part -- I don't look at PvP as evil...just most of the PvP people are evil. "no you can't get in my group cause you are a noob"......"since no monks on my team I will just rage quit and rejoin until I get one so I can get a glad point"...."we beat you in 30 seconds you noobs"..etc, etc, etc. I have done HA, GvG, TA, RA..and it is just not much fun for me. You PvP players want to talk about balance and stuff so much, where is the balance in someone in Europe getting to go to FoW and me not getting to go because of where I live? There is a lot more balance in PvP than that, heck if a skill is overpowered you can use it too, then it is balance because you both have the same skills at your desposal, it is not so for people who live here rather than there and want to go to FoW or UW

3rd -- I look at everyone as a player until they prove otherwise...sadly all but 1 of the times I have been in RA, TA, HA, and GvG there have been people on other side or mine that were just a A-Hole, "Leet", Jealous, or whatever person and that is a big part of the reason I don't go there anymore.

4th -- I have yet to ever talk to anyone who HA'd to "fight for the good of their country" If you want to fight for the good of your country then join the military.

5th -- If favor is there to promote playing PvP then make it where for every XX # of PvP matches you play you get to go to Fow or UW one time...then I would PvP. If it is not there to promote PvP then why is it there?

That would be great If I could get everyone else in my guild to do that I would then we could go to FoW and UW...but if Favor is for the Pride of the country, etc then why should switching even be allowed? Another thing that should be fixed, pick one and stick with it....and by the way, I don't really care what you want or don't want either...I am just posting my opinion on the subject and you have the right to think or want whatever you want, just because you have no valid argument doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to post your opinion like everyone else

Add another reason why favor is flawed:

It further separates the gap between PvE and PvP players as seen in this thread.

what I want to know is why are there PvP players posting here trying to restrict us access to 2 PvE areas?

you know that not everyone PvP right? there are a lot of PvE only players with no desire to PvP and I feel bad that the new regions, Japan and Taiwan will never get to fully experience FoW and UW.

I agree, as I said, I believe the favor system need a change, so every nation have a fair chance in the starter point. (winning or loseing will still base on skills of course) In term, a more balance favour flow between nations.

Oh come on~~ you and I both know PVE have just as many "Leetness" people. The good thing is, because they are so leet and selfcenter, they use hero and became anti-social outside thier own guild . HA dont have such privilage....its player vs player after all. Sometime I actualy hope the other team are all a$$...hard to wack someone when they seem so nice It seem worse because you have less contral on every factor, and have to trust other...which is hard for today's people
Over all, doesnt matter pve or pvp, we just need more nicer kinder players

skip this one my say on this matter is at the above

We dont have to talk about it, but the feeling is there, people do go "woopy!!" when the favor come, doesnt matter pvp or pve. And that example is not logical, people like the glory and the feeling that they are doing good for others once every now and then, doesnt mean they are ready to drop their current life and join the army.

I dont know why A-Net didnt do it this way, but yes, it was originaly a way to promote pvp, and for player in both side have some kind of link. They made a great deal about the system too
BTW, how are we supose to team with others players and go down there together if it is base on players win ## mach in pvp??

Guys, if you just want to be an ass, go elsewhere. This is supposed to be SERIOUS discussion of WHY it should/shouldn't be used. not, a flame war.

I agree...sorry about that, just makes me mad I been wanting to go UW for a month now and no chance... ok, so here is serious discussion (basically what has been said so far)

Reasons discussed so far to keep it like it is:

1) because Europe didn't ever get to go when America had favor all the time
2) if you can't earn favor you don't get to go
3) make PvE'rs miserable
4) Sense of doing something for your fellow countrymen

Reasons to get rid of it

1) lots of people are new th the game and weren't around when America had
favor and have not gotten to go at all
2) It is PVE!! not PVP one should not affect the other
3) People from regions other than Europe or America don't stand a chance
4) It makes even bigger gap between PvP and PvE players than there already is
5) It does not affect PvP at all if you have favor or not, but it is decided by actions of PvP players... so if we are going to keep it then there should be something in PvE that does not affect PvE but does affect PvP just to make it "fair"


Can you really look at the arguments for and against and say that the argument for keeping it is valid in comparison?

I'd really love to see all the pvp arenas locked to anyone that has not completed the final mission of a campain.

Make sence to you?

And yet locking out a pve area unless you complete a pvp arena does?

i think if the server doesnt have server paying 8k, 1k each is the best soultion. Although there are lots of threads about this sort of stuff and im pretty sure A-net r gunna keep this method...

I don't think they will ever change it, when America had the favor all the time Europe made tons of these treadhs and nothing happened so it would be pretty unfair if the did something this time.

Yeah, well, There's a LOT more american PvE player than there are Euro Players total...

So, Leverage is the big thing here.

/signed

favor is seriously flawed. i want to go to the underworld. in order to do that, i have to learn how to pvp (something i'm not very fond of) and become so good i can beat everyone else in ha. that's taking the 'choice' out of pvp and adding the 'force' into pve. favor should just be totally removed and we should all be able to explore the high-end areas without harrassment. and let us take heroes and henchies in there, some of us actually enjoy exploring on our own and dont require 7 other idiots to survive.

As long as people keep thinking this as some PVP vs PVE thing....there is no end to it.
I dont care how people are saying PVEer are peaceful and nicer or anything...look around the forum.
PVEer are just as aggresive, they just dont work off their adrenalin in pvp.
The people fail the system just as much as the system fail the people.... but the system isnt a living thing...so ya, bash it all you want=P

And the "lock off pvp arena and give them a taste of their own medicine" ...I dot understand
FOW/UW are maps, they are not link to any of the main content. Your progress wont "stuck" because you cant FOW/UW.

Again, I found the whole, "I must go FOW/UW or GW arent worth the money I pay for it" more of the desire for the fruit that is harder to reach.

If you truely think you been everywhere, and need more place to go, your problem is not with the favor system, ya 2 map that take 3~5 hours to finish all missions there are so going to save you from been board....if it does we wont have SF. Your problem is that A-Net didnt make a big enough game for you. Which by all mean, go a head and ask for more map, more follow up story, more missions.

Its not about wanting to get there because we need to farm or just be everywhere...

Many people like myself go to FOW and UW because its fun, its different and there are monsters there that you dont find in most other places.

PvP players that spend all the time on the same handfull of maps fighting the same humans over and over should get this concept...but they just dont for some reason..

This is a pve vs pvp problem because Anet made it that way....we just want the problem resolved one way or another.

Try to imagine favor working in reverse with the region that completed the most quests in FoW/UW getting access to HA and the rest locked out?

Makes no sence does it?

/signed

I am only a so-so player, having beat Prophecies and Factions a few times on different characters and Nightfall once, over the course of about 15 months of play. I really am more of a PvE player, but still enjoy PvP, in the forms of TA and RA, AB once upon a time, and about 130 Fame-worth of HA. I love the PvE aspects of the game, and really get annoyed at the fact that the favor system binds PvE players to a PvP aspect of the game. There is a pretty sharp division between these two parts of Guild Wars, and the fact that PvP exercises COMPLETE control over the top areas of PvE (minus the Domain of Anguish) is a bad idea, since players who want into UW/FOW need to either sit around and wait for favor, or completely change the focus of their game and spend a fair amount of time just learning the ropes of HA to even get IN to teams, leave their beloved home PvE guilds for HA oriented ones, or just sit around and wait for favor. :-p None of these options make sense. There are no PvE restrictions on PvP really . . . they have access to unlock all skills through PvP means (Balthazar faction), and Anet is actively lifting armor and weapon restrictions changes to benefit PvP, where somewhere in the PvE world there exists something only attainable through PvE. I think that as PvE areas, UW and FOW should be accessed through PvE means. The Domain of Anguish req is reasonable; beating the game. Making the same sort of thing applicable to UW/FOW would be good:

Players who own only one game gain access to UW/FOW by being ascended, paying 1k, and then either paying in Balthazar Faction, or having beaten all the missions in the game (bonus not included).

Players owning multiples campaigns would have to be ascended, pay the 1k, and then either pay Bathazar faction or have beaten any one of the campaigns entire set of missions (bonus/masters not needed).

This would also have the added benefit of getting PvE-ers to play through the whole game, making places like the Maguuma Jungle visited again.

I don't think getting rid of favor and hiking up the price of entry would be a good idea, but replacing favor with a less biased system would be a great idea.

Besides, say a good PvE player trying to get into UW more often drops everything, becomes a master of PvP, joins a top guild, and starts winning in the Hall of Heroes. ONce favor is attained, what is that player going to do? "Thanks guild, now we have favor, so I am going to drop out, hustle over to the Temple of the Ages, and see if I can get into UW . . . you guys keep plugging away!" That doesn't really seem like a good gameplay attitude to foster.

Thats my two cents.

Nop, players make it so(I suspect both pve hater and pvp hater have a hand in this), believe it or not in the earlier days a lot of people waiting in TOA actualy cheers for their nations' teams that playing HA(and bet on it....not a good thing..but keep the spirit going)
The favor system, does in fact bring a lot of people who never try pvp in other game before give the pvp in GW a try....I for one(I played RP server in WOW), and my guild lord who actualy live in ha now(jerk....out fame me )... To say its a failier all around its not just, which is why I said players fail the system as much as the system fail the player.

Again FOW and UW are not a progress map, its an extra, its an end-game, its an luxary. Prove me otherwise...show me how does anything in UW and FOW infact link with the main story line of GW, other then we see those name pop up in some dialoge(people in tyria talk about first Guild War too...which we are never apart of)
If you want to talk about extra that is hard to reach, for both side, there already is. The 15k armor, FOW armor, weapon skins(but pvp can get 2 of the so call rarest), different pets....a pure PVPer have no way for such luxary as for now. And PVPer cant even count on other people to do something in pve to open this up for them. Yet the last time someone bring this up, look at how many the so call "pure PVEer" drop the bomb at them.(How does want to look good conflict with pvp...I will never know)
If you want to play the compare game we can go on until the topic is lock....but I rather not, cause I actualy agree that something need to be done with the favor system so people will actualy find it something to be enjoy by all players, I just dont believe in removing it.

The main reason I cannot sign for the op's idea is because he want the favor to be ignore by pve.

OH NO, I don't want favor to leave. I like favor. I just don't want it to limit acess to FoW/UW.

I want favor to do something else. Like maybe, a Health bonus, attack bonus, or armor bonus in PvE. Or favor to make access to FoW/UW FREE.

Then favor would still make people happy, But, We'd all get access to FoW/UW.

Let's follow that logic.

All PvP areas should be a reward. All PvPers should have to complete PvE goal X before they can go play PvP. PvP should be some kind of reward because it is extra.

Obviously I don't believe this, but it's similar to the logic used for the favor system.

Well i didnt. I played the game, and do other things. I remember summer in 2005 when europe coudnt get favor for whole MONTH .... . Ecto price before global economy was worth something around 30k each. Its not about revenge cause we coudnt get favor at all. Everything is about reward for keeping elite area called HoH .

well,.. dont hate me for saying this to members for changing favour, but i think it should stay, though of course there will always be the question of "how is a korean supposed to get fow armor?" and "how am i supposed to farm shards if i cant get into fow" and i do respect your opinion and efforts for trying to change the favour system as it is what u believe in, but i simply cannot lie and say i want to change the favour system, you must also remember that anet would have to change the lore of the game, where the "heroes" duke it out to gain the favour of the gods upon their "land" so it is not as simple as that, though i must admit other did make a point in saying anet has changed alot of thing in a "big" way if you understand what i am saying

i still am wondering and have this constent "your a bad bad person" voice at the back of my mind when i think of the koreans and how i am not signing to this idea, but i ask that u forgive in my decision in that i think the favour system should stay as it is,

if i have offended anyone during this lilttle "speech" plz forgive me i had no intention to,

/not signed

Simple solution is...to not do FoW/UW. It is not necessary to do FoW/UW.

If you really want Favor that badly, go HoH yourself and see how hard it is for your fellow Europeans to get Favor.


/notsigned

Ah, the myth of the FAVOR = SKILL again...

I played in a european guild in summer'05 and won favor a few times with my guild. Most guilds we faced in Tombs were american/korean... euros didn't suck back then, they were just a MINORITY (before the first tournament many euro guilds played on american server).
Look at the current GvG ladder..66.9% european guilds nowadays.

favor = which server has more people interested in PvP

That is not the same logic sir...
GW's PVP is always there from the very begining. From the first day of game release, from the point you create your charactor you can go pvp, its never a "end-game" or "Extra" for pve.

so...unless you never create a pvp char before, I dont see how anyone mix this two.

Heroes ascent is broken, stupid, and meaningless. It's also full of noobs. If you want favor, get it yourself, it isn't hard.

In lieu of that little mini-flame, I support your pay-more-without-favor idea.

/signed

/signed although, I find it strange in the first post you say Europe has favour almost all the time, and america has it at "midnight", I'm from Australia and during the day America has favour quite alot, for a few hours during the night Europe has favour and thats when I do my FoW thing, but America seems to have favour more. Perhaps favour is split 50/50 and we just dont notice it...

The thing is...I do see FOW/UW as a perfect lure for those pveer who need an extra push to try out pvp...it worked on me
Have people simply pay more to get in will take away the its effect on people, few k in GW arent realy something hard to come by, and if you do UW or FOW its even easier the loot will most likely made up for the ticket and you still left with a lot of extra.

I realy thought A-Net had something when I first heard of the faction idea.
Both pveer and pvper can have a hand in gaining the right for elite mission, no one is been force to do neither. It turn out not so well.

I think the problem is A-Net keep using the method of "who ever have the most man power win". They should know better that is not the way for a fair compitition. Some nation simply have less gaming population, what do you want them to do?? Having crazy sex party so they can reproduce enough players after 10 years??

But I do see a positive future if they can refine that. A favor system that involve both pvp and pve, and reward both.
Like average of the top 5 score in pve challenge+ top 5 score of HA, and the winner nation keep it for the next day.
but I have no idea on how to score HA...in a fair way

I have European and Taiwanese accounts. Taiwan hardly ever has favour. Access to areas is not a reward for anyone who hasn't personally won HoH, it's almost an accident of boughtplace (that is where you bought your game). So it doesn't seem fair that my Euro characters can go to UW or FoW but my Taiwanese characters can't. And it doesn't seem to matter to me whether people want to go to farm or explore or whatever. I'd vote for scrapping 'favor' entirely now. It was an interesting idea at first to cheer on your side, but now my friends are international, and so I can't take sides. It is time for another mechanism to unlock the special areas, based on individual merit of some sort (ascension, faction, cash, lightbringer rank or whatever).

oh, btw, for those who think I am just supporting this kind of favor system, because I am from europe...

I am playing on american servers because I am in an american guild

but seriously, no1 complained when america/korea had favor all the time...

I think the whole favor system should be simply chucked into the trash can and forgotten permanently. The idea was always retarded. I think its stupid that 1)8 months ago Europe never got favor and 2)nowadays America never gets favor.

Just let people into FoW/UW for free, the only requirement being Ascension.

And if you dont like the idea of 55hp bots and SS/SV necro bots dominating UW, BAN THE BOTS.

/start sarcasm Make all Europeans PvP characters 100 HP and all Americans 1000 HP, maybe that way they could actually win in HA /end sarcasm

(Like you could imagine, I play in Europe)

Might I suggest server switching?

I have major issues with the content locking, and more so with the HA community.

Alot of people in PvE are just as aggresive and "leetsauce" as pvpers, this is true, however with the exception of DoA you don't get alot of well you're not rank X or above so you can't join. Well it is a little hard to earn rank if you can't even get in a team.

I would love to learn how to PvP better and gain some rank, so would alot of my guildmates but the problems that we face are issues with getting a decent group together who will work together and earn rank, sure everyone has to start out somewhere and earn their way up but the exclusitivity of the rank system makes it hard for newer players or even older players wanting to get into pvp a chance to enjoy it.

No where else in the game is access to a location blocked by another style of play (pve/pvp), so why should UW/FoW be any different?

I do agree that Favor needs to have some bearing on the game as it is a cool idea, the higher drop rates would be nice, but then again PvPers wouldn't really use that either, so maybe the system is something that just plain doesn't make sense to some people, myself included.

For me it isn't about Europe vs America, PvP vs PvE. I would love to get into some pvp action if only i had a way to, fine I can't no big deal I will stick to PvE.

However maybe there needs to be more than just one area of the game that gains favor? Perhaps they could add some core Competitive Missions to gain favor, or have a donation npc to help sway the scale (donate X balthazar factions towards your region's cause). Perhaps add some kind of PvE mission that helps gain favor but is hard, maybe something like Mallyx (but of course being core not on one expansion).

In general I think that there should be more options for earning favor that doesn't just include HA, perhaps some PvE ways, perhaps not.

Also, I agree that regions such as Japan and Taiwan are majorly getting hosed by this system that is in place, maybe the smaller regions could have some way of balancing that out too.

Yes FoW and UW are extras, but so are most arenas to new players or have you forgot that now all arenas except for Random must be unlocked through pvp play?

So suggesting that the unlock should be tied to pve play is not an inacurate way to show the stupidity of having a pve area locked due to pvp play.

I play this game to have fun, pvp is not fun for me. Its not that im not good at it, though I have no rank its due to lack of playing. I've earned my Friend of Luxon tittle so I do have some exp at it, though most will argue that HA is nothing like AB.

Telling me to "Go earn favor if you want in!" is pointless. Your asking me to do something I don't like to do in order to have fun playing a game I like to play.


FoW and UW are fun zones for my and my guild. We've been going into both since before it was restricted to ascended players. But with work and other real life obligations we have a hard time getting into FoW or UW as we cant pick a time to log on and play with any certainty that access will be availible.

I have a great deal of respect for PvP players, its just not something I like to do.

As for having to change the lore if we change favor, the way its worded it would actualy imply that Cantha, Elona or Tyria has favor rather than America, Europe or Korea.

I totally agree. As I type this I am waiting for American favor just so I can go in and buy my FoW armor. Its ridiculous having to wait an entire day just to get into a PvE area that PvP players influence and mostly dont care about.

Create more Realms of the Gods and link the favor of each to a different type of PvP (and perhaps create more PvP formats). Then, chances are, you'll have at least one realm to tool around in at any particular time.