is strength armor penetration used in every ordinary swing with sword (axe, hammer) or just with attack skills as stated on gwiki?thx
i have doubts on strength
Ellenia
hi is strength armor penetration used in every ordinary swing with sword (axe, hammer) or just with attack skills as stated on gwiki?
thx
is strength armor penetration used in every ordinary swing with sword (axe, hammer) or just with attack skills as stated on gwiki?thx
Kityn
Only with attack skills. Never leave home without them.
Skuld
Slightly unrelated note, if this is your first time as a warrior, use strength for the skills and not the passive bonus, it isn't too great >.<
Coridan
I agree if you skill bar is empty of all strength based skills and you don't need strength for armor/shield then don't waste any points in it. its fine to put "extra" in there but don't waste them if they can go somewhere else.
kc2000ss
It is my understanding that strength affects the armor penetration of every melee attack... not just when using strength based skills
Dutch Masterr
i just keep strength at 9 for just about every build.
MegaMouse
Each point in Strength gives a 1% armor penetration bonus for every hit that your character makes. If you have 10 points in Strength then you have a 10% armor penetration bonus. This relates to all skills not just the ones in the Strength column. I run a 16 point Sentinal build on my warriro with a perfect Sundering FellBlade of Fortitude and see where several hits can completely ignore armor (it doesn't help that in order to utilize the 100 armor points that the Sentinal armor has, you must have 13 points in strength). Use the build that yoou feel most comfortable with.
Mega Mouse
Mega Mouse
Savio
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kc2000ss
It is my understanding that strength affects the armor penetration of every melee attack... not just when using strength based skills
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MegaMouse
I run a 16 point Sentinal build on my warriro with a perfect Sundering FellBlade of Fortitude and see where several hits can completely ignore armor (it doesn't help that in order to utilize the 100 armor points that the Sentinal armor has, you must have 13 points in strength).
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2. There is no way to completely ignore armor, i.e. 100% armor penetration.
MegaMouse
Using certian skills (can't remember shich ones) and vs a fo with low armor points, ignoring armor is possible. I will check out my Warrior and post the skills that ignore armor and post the stats as soon as I can. It doesn't happen all of the time but it does happen.
Mega Mouse
Mega Mouse
Yanman.be
MegaMouse. That is utter crap.
lagrand1
no, it's true. if you are a warrior mesmer and have illus weapon on, it ignores armor. of course, it ignores the sundering too.
Yanman.be
He clearly says "several hits can icompletely ignore armour". Utter crap.
Red
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MegaMouse
Using certian skills (can't remember shich ones) and vs a fo with low armor points, ignoring armor is possible. I will check out my Warrior and post the skills that ignore armor and post the stats as soon as I can. It doesn't happen all of the time but it does happen.
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To acheive true armor penetration, you would have to get that number up to 100%. Looking at the skills offered at This Wiki Page, you could have (assuming perfect penetration stacking):
20% from the warrior skills like Primal Rage (note that this overrides even 16 in strength. Thanks, Savio!)
20% from a sundering sword hilt (20% chance, but whatever)
20% from the enchantment Judge's Insight
60% maximum armor penetration on an attack skill.
That looks like it penetrates armor 60%, rather than ignores it completely.
Higher damage to lower levels of armor is not because attacks are ignoring armor, but rather because the lower armors come with a damage penalty, if you will. Armor level 60 (typical max caster armor) provides the baseline, the benchmark, for damage.
Any armor lower than 60 will actually hit for more than the weapon is capable of. XD I love taking my monk and wanding level 3 monsters on Istan. Even here, though, the armor is not IGNORED--just insufficient to protect against severe damage. If you research on www.guildwiki.org, you'll see that even lower levels of armor adhere to a general Armor-Damage equation.
Short story: unless you're using skills that specifically ignore armor (Obsidian Flame, shadow damage skills, direct damage, etc), then you are not, as a warrior, ignoring armor. Ever.
P.S. There ARE skills that will add a +X to your damage on a hit. THOSE additional points do ignore armor, but only because they are "direct damage", and so do not factor into the armor equation. However, only those additional points are armor-ignoring; the hit itself still gets run through the armor calculations before the additional +X is added in.
Jeremy Untouchable
I concur with red, 100% al penatration isnt gonna happen
Savio
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Red
20% from the warrior skills like Primal Rage
20% from a sundering sword hilt (20% chance, but whatever) 20% from the enchantment Judge's Insight 16% from Strength at 16 (only activates on attack skills) 76% maximum armor penetration on an attack skill. |
Red
Omg you're right. Editing original post.
Tufty
I used to use strength akll the time with no tactics at all. Then I got into using tactics. Now im using a hammer build with Dwarven battle stance and Im back to strength again! Dont know why Im telling you all this but I guess what im saying is horses for courses.
jana_the_stranger
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MegaMouse
Each point in Strength gives a 1% armor penetration bonus for every hit that your character makes.
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every hit so not only when you use i skill
btw i was thinking that the basic damage (so no critical hit, no penetration ..)you do with a hammer/axe/sword/... req 9 was the same if you have 9 points @that attribute.
But i tested it in pvp with wild blow (so i always had a critical hit)and no strenght-points spended and i did more basic-damage with 16 then with 9.
well for me thats weird
and it wasnt just 1 damage/hit it was more then 10.
so if you play pvp with a perfect req 8 weapon your character is better then a pvp-one omg
Savio
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jana_the_stranger
so if you play pvp with a perfect req 8 weapon your character is better then a pvp-one omg
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Coloneh
To the OP: these users that say strength affects all hits are wrong. please do not believe them. Strength only affects attack skills.
jana_the_stranger
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Savio
No, weapon requirements don't matter. Increasing your weapon mastery attribute increases damage. At 12 weapon mastery you deal 100% of the listed damage; at 16 you deal 115%.
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how do you know that?
jana_the_stranger
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Coloneh
To the OP: these users that say strength affects all hits are wrong. please do not believe them. Strength only affects attack skills.
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thats what you can find about it on this site.
Savio
Because that's what the description of the weapon attributes say, and I've tested it myself.
[wiki]Damage[/wiki]
[wiki]Damage Rating progression[/wiki] (look at the last chart)
At level 20, rank 0 in a weapon, you deal 35% of listed damage.
Increasing your weapon attribute by 1 increases your overall damage by about 3%, as opposed to increasing your Strength by 1 and getting about a 1% increase - which is only during attack skills. Really, the only reasons you use Strength is for the skills (and most useful Strength-based skills don't need high Strength to use) and if you have nothing else to put the points in.
Quote:
| Swordsmanship increases the damage you do with swords and your chance to inflict a critical hit when using a sword. Many skills, especially sword attacks skills, become more effective with higher Swordsmanship. |
[wiki]Damage Rating progression[/wiki] (look at the last chart)
At level 20, rank 0 in a weapon, you deal 35% of listed damage.
Quote:
| Armor penetration lowers the effective defense of your target which raises your damage output. |
Horseman Of War
wow it took 2 pages just to throw up that damage chart link? You guys like to toy with the noobish huh?
Savio- how exactly do you know that there is a "disheartening amount" of 16Str warriors? You must hang around some very odd pug spots. All numbers aside, the OP could have been presented this information in a much less cynical manner.
Savio- how exactly do you know that there is a "disheartening amount" of 16Str warriors? You must hang around some very odd pug spots. All numbers aside, the OP could have been presented this information in a much less cynical manner.
jana_the_stranger
well in my opinion when you have req of weapon it doesnt matter how much you have 9 or 16, you still have to do same damage.
Only your skills may be more powerfull with higher attribute
but a well good to know
Only your skills may be more powerfull with higher attribute
but a well good to know
Savio
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jana_the_stranger
well in my opinion when you have req of weapon it doesnt matter how much you have 9 or 16, you still have to do same damage.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Horseman Of War
wow it took 2 pages just to throw up that damage chart link? You guys like to toy with the noobish huh?
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http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...nics-id674.php
It oversimplifies the equation a bit, but it's a lot easier than going through the whole equation just to find the difference between 14 and 15 Swordsmanship.
Quote:
| Savio- how exactly do you know that there is a "disheartening amount" of 16Str warriors? |
Well, okay, I really dislike people running Sentinel's in PvE because it implies the only reason they have high Strength is to wear Sentinel's.
I Phoenix I
To sum it up, Strength does no activate on normal swings. It only activates on attack skills. That makes Strength in a way useless.
Also, running 16 in Strength is a total waste of attribute points. The highest reasonable amount would be about 10. Unless you use tons of Strength skills, I would just dump leftover points in Strength.
There is no such thing as 100% Armor Penetration. 100% Armor Penetration means that the damage ignores armor. That would mean that the damage is either Shadow Damage, Holy Damage, damage that doesn't mention type, and some other ones, including additional damage from attack skills. Obsidian Flame and Crystal Wave/Tenai's Crystals also ignore armor.
Having a lower-req weapon does not increase your damage. Having a higher mastery in that weapon does, however.
If you need help, don't forget that in a way, GuildWiki is your friend.
Also, running 16 in Strength is a total waste of attribute points. The highest reasonable amount would be about 10. Unless you use tons of Strength skills, I would just dump leftover points in Strength.
There is no such thing as 100% Armor Penetration. 100% Armor Penetration means that the damage ignores armor. That would mean that the damage is either Shadow Damage, Holy Damage, damage that doesn't mention type, and some other ones, including additional damage from attack skills. Obsidian Flame and Crystal Wave/Tenai's Crystals also ignore armor.
Having a lower-req weapon does not increase your damage. Having a higher mastery in that weapon does, however.
If you need help, don't forget that in a way, GuildWiki is your friend.
Ellenia
wow, i didnt expect all this
thank you ppl
but in the last post, i cant agree with the following:
100% armor penetration means that target has armor level 0. Shadow damage, holy damage and others mentioned up there deals damage to a target as if target has armor level 60. if you hit with 50 holy damage, damage done to target is exactly 50. if you hit with 50 damage with armor penetration 100% actual damage would be about 150. But keep in mind that 100% armor penetration does not exist.
again, thank you all for your time
thank you ppl
but in the last post, i cant agree with the following:
Quote:
| 100% Armor Penetration means that the damage ignores armor. That would mean that the damage is either Shadow Damage, Holy Damage, damage that doesn't mention type, and some other ones, including additional damage from attack skills. Obsidian Flame and Crystal Wave/Tenai's Crystals also ignore armor. |
again, thank you all for your time
Savio
As an additional note, Holy damage doesn't inherently ignore armor - Judge's Insight, Heart of Holy Flame, and Avatar of Balthazar cause your attacks to deal Holy damage. All skills that cause Holy damage ignore armor though, although that is more because they're skills and not because of the damage type itself.
Armor-ignoring damage just bypasses the whole armor portion of the damage equation - it doesn't make armor 60 or 0 or whatever you think it should be. To explain armor-ignoring damage that way just confuses people and makes them start asking "what does armor penetration do to that 60 armor?"
Armor-ignoring damage just bypasses the whole armor portion of the damage equation - it doesn't make armor 60 or 0 or whatever you think it should be. To explain armor-ignoring damage that way just confuses people and makes them start asking "what does armor penetration do to that 60 armor?"
jana_the_stranger
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Savio
Your "opinion" is wrong. If you want max damage, you go with 16 in your weapon attribute. Low-requirement weapons being stronger is a myth.
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So if i check that list when you have a req 8 sword and you have 8 swordmanship you wont be able to do the same damage as a sword with 12 req when you have 12 on it?
Kakumei
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jana_the_stranger
So if i check that list when you have a req 8 sword and you have 8 swordmanship you wont be able to do the same damage as a sword with 12 req when you have 12 on it?
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VGJustice
[edit] disregard, plx
Yanman.be
Quote:
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Originally Posted by jana_the_stranger
not stronger, you just dont need that much attributes on it.
So if i check that list when you have a req 8 sword and you have 8 swordmanship you wont be able to do the same damage as a sword with 12 req when you have 12 on it? |
jana, for the last time: req only matters if you do not meet it. And if you don't meet it, you do starter damage.
If you DO meet the req, your damage depends on your weapon mastery, not the requirement.
The charts never mentioned requirements.
Xeones The Great
btw, armor penetration does not lower foe's armor, it penetrates through it. so, at 16 str and 20% sundering, its 36% penetration. against 80 armor, it would penetrate through 36% of it, leaving 51 of it. so say your attack would deal 20 dmg to 80 armor. with 36% sundering, against 51 armor, it would deal almost double, maybe like 35. i hope this helped. 
i think below requirement, u actually do exactly half the damage. for instance 15-22 would be 8-11. thats what ive learned.
i think below requirement, u actually do exactly half the damage. for instance 15-22 would be 8-11. thats what ive learned.
Savio
jana_the_stranger
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Yanman.be
jana, for the last time: req only matters if you do not meet it. And if you don't meet it, you do starter damage.
If you DO meet the req, your damage depends on your weapon mastery, not the requirement. The charts never mentioned requirements. |
well for me thats really stupid. If you have a sword with 8 req or 1 with 12 and you meet the req exacly you have to do same BASIC-damage. If you have higher on it, well you still have to do the same amount of BASIC-damage.
MegaMouse
Using these skills you can get 76% armor penetration. 100% if I can find the skills:
Judges Insight +20% armor penetration
Primal Rage +20% armor penetration
Perfect sundering mod +20% armor Penetration (granted not all the time)
16 points in Strength +16% armor Penetration
I can't find the last skill that will take you to 96% but I am still looking. When I find it I will edit this.
Mega Mouse
Judges Insight +20% armor penetration
Primal Rage +20% armor penetration
Perfect sundering mod +20% armor Penetration (granted not all the time)
16 points in Strength +16% armor Penetration
I can't find the last skill that will take you to 96% but I am still looking. When I find it I will edit this.
Mega Mouse
Savio
MegaMouse, read post #15.
jana, everybody's tried to explain politely to you how requirements work. If you want to have a different opinion, that's fine, just keep it off this forum until you have proof.
req 8 sword with 8 swordsmanship = (15-22) * .71 = 11-16
req 8 sword with 12 swordsmanship = (15-22) * 1 = 15-22
req 8 sword with 16 swordsmanship = (15-22) * 1.15 = 17-25
req 12 sword with 8 swordsmanship = (7-11) * .71 = 5-8
req 12 sword with 12 swordsmanship (15-22) * 1 = 15-22
req 12 sword with 16 swordsmanship = (15-22) * 1.15 = 17-25
jana, everybody's tried to explain politely to you how requirements work. If you want to have a different opinion, that's fine, just keep it off this forum until you have proof.
req 8 sword with 8 swordsmanship = (15-22) * .71 = 11-16
req 8 sword with 12 swordsmanship = (15-22) * 1 = 15-22
req 8 sword with 16 swordsmanship = (15-22) * 1.15 = 17-25
req 12 sword with 8 swordsmanship = (7-11) * .71 = 5-8
req 12 sword with 12 swordsmanship (15-22) * 1 = 15-22
req 12 sword with 16 swordsmanship = (15-22) * 1.15 = 17-25
I Phoenix I
MegaMouse, you can't have the 16% from Strength because Strength AP only activates on Attack Skills and Primal Rage disables all skills (including Attack Skills). That means you can't count something like Penetrating Chop or some other skill that gives AP.
jana_the_stranger
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Savio
MegaMouse, read post #15.
jana, everybody's tried to explain politely to you how requirements work. If you want to have a different opinion, that's fine, just keep it off this forum until you have proof. |
