Why does this happen?

I have a considerable experience in GvG and I don't do much of HA so my rank is 2. That doesn't make me a noob. Really nowadays I only do HA with my guildies, so no problem with that.

I'm running into alot of these same issues. I'm really interested in the PvP aspect of the game, especially HA. But, I haven't done much PvP at all yet mainly because I can't find anyone to do it with.

I have 1 real life friend that I play with a lot, but she is much more interested in PvE. My guild does a little PvP, but they aren't willing to teach noobs much. They have their core team that they go into HA with and that's it. They are a great guild though otherwise and I don't regret joining them, so don't suggest that I just need to switch guilds.

So, how does a newbie player break into PvP? I've unlocked TA but not HA yet. It's been very difficult to find good teams in TA. The good players don't want me and the ones that do take me are made up of uncoordinated players that will take anyone onto the team just so they can start a battle.

I really need patient tutor that can teach me the fine art of PvP without humiliating me in the process.

Oh and btw, I'm female so we do exist in the game.

TheRaven, I had exactly the same problem. Basically you have 2 chances: First one you start ur own guild and start learning, or you join a guild that just started.
Really GvG is a whole new world of GW, it's simply the best out there.

There's a reason why people don't play PvP - it's fat stupid ugly wammos. They're played by 14 year old kids who would dance behind a female Ele as soon as tell you you're a noob. They're the sort of people who flash rank even in a desolate town...because they impress themselves. They're the sort of people who spend hours playing PvP "killing noobs" then come to PvE and try to tell other players how to set up their own builds.

...least that's my experience of PvP which was months and months ago...my guess is it never changes.

Ive had my decent encounters with Elitists, one of which i posted here when i was new. It really gets me angry when i see someone who discriminates people because they feel that their eachievements make them superior to those who for some reason couldnt make the achievement by the time of the discriminiation.

Unfortunately, Humanity causes a dog eat dog environment, those who have power have it, those who don't can not deny that the person has power. This makes Elitists tricky to deal with. The only way you can put an Elitist in his/her place is by giving them a 1 on 1 scrim. The victor MAY be superior. Further problems come in to play though, because Humanity caused the dog eat dog effect People always feel they must defend their power to remain powerful. Thus in the 1 on 1 scrim, should the opponent take it up (if they don't, then they aren't all they're cracked up to be) he WILL cheat, whine, weasal and god knows what to the end of the matter. He may decide to use an Obsidian Flesh Solo Build or some other invincible build. Which in turn comes down to money for the skills and armour.

However, there is one more way to knock back Elitism in Guild Wars: preventing players from beign able to show off their achievements. This would mean the permanent removal of Emotes and the permanent removal of Combat Based Titles. (excluding Protector and such) But should that kick in there would be a fairly large part of the gaming Community Outrage leading to big problems for ANet.

Elitism, and many other problems caused by the will of our very own kind cause lots of Catch 22s.

Lets welcome Guild Wars: Utopia with a hopeful sigh of relief!

Welcome to the world of online games and inherant elitist attitudes you always encounter.

Well, Anet is losing either way. The way it stands now, they cannot gain new players. You buy the game and try to play only to be met with "GO AWAY NOOB!!!!" everywhere you go in the game. Good luck getting those folks to buy more GW products.

I've seen other posts here talking about the Golden Age of Prophecies when PUGS were friendly and everyone was learning to play at the same time. Now you have folks who have been playing for a year or 2 and everyone else is a "stupid noob" who should just leave because "u suk".

Here's 1 solution that GW should consider. I don't know how expensive it would be to implement but I think it would help the player base considerably.
In HA and TA (or just HA), split the districts. Instead of names like American District 1-10, have "Unranked Districts" "Ranks 1-2 Districts" "Ranks 3-4 Districts" "Ranks 5+ Districts" as well as several unrestricted Districts like American District 1. Players can only go into districts that match their rank. If you want to form a guild team made up of various ranks then you meet in the unrestricted district.

Formed teams can still go any battle against any level team, but at least this would give the unranked novices a chance to get onto teams with others and learn.

I do a lot of GvG, Ab, everything. I try to do HA, but if im not ranked 5+ i cant join a team. Just because im R2 doesnt mean im worse, I just cant get on a team because im not R5+. The way i became R2 is from Iway long time ago.
It's a never ending cycle

I once tried to Pug fow, when i joined the group in question, they asked my rank... I was in ToA and they advertised 3/8 for FoW team, nothing to do with rank, and about 4 of the team ran up to me asking rank^^. When i said why would I have rank. They flashed their stupid "wolf" at me and kicked me from group. I was a mesmer at the time and maybe that was why, but who knows. I got screenshots if anyone wants to see.

It's the internet!
Stop complaining, you pathetic emo!
/rank
/dance
/taunt

Wow, I Pug FOW all the time (well, whenever America gets favor, which isn't much) and I've never had anyone ask me for rank. I've been in some truly awful teams, but I've also gotten some nice teams as well.

The other night, a friend and I joined a PUG and got included on a nice well balanced team. We cleared out the shadow army, continued onto the Forge, finished all the quests there and then proceeded to the Beach spider cave. We killed all the spiders and collected our rewards. After that about 3 players had to leave so the rest of us didn't last long. Just goes to prove that good and decent PUGs do exist. My friend got a purple Crystalline Sword from a reward chest and I collected 3 Obsidian Shards.

Someone said that purple Crystallines aren't worth anything and should just be junked. I told my friend to hang onto it for awhile until I could get a price check. Neither of us are up to speed on the value of stuff, but I tend to err on the side of caution. I know that a lot of folks tend to junk anything that isn't worth at least 100k, but my friend and I are still getting established and even 5-10k would be better than the merchant's 100g and worth the time selling.

Well, Ive drifted way off topic. Back to Rank...if someone asks for a stupid PvP stat in PvE, then they're an elitist jerk. Put them on ignore and move on.

If you're forming a PUG in HA, you ask for rank. It's the ONLY way to have even a remote idea of the skill level of player A vs player B. Yes, rank can be farmed, and yes accounts can also be bought, but at least you can be sure right away that an unranked player hasn't played a whole lot of HA, at least successfully.

This used to be much more important, when HA battles were as hard fought as GvG, only with FotM builds. Recently it's just become a joke, where half the teams are just silly inexperienced and the other half demolish them. Good news is that you can get into an unranked team easily enough, especially if you have a guild that has at least 3 other players that want to play.

Anyway, it's not elitist. It's the only damn way to judge a complete stranger available to a group leader. This does not mean that I condone "hahah n00b!" and the like, which many PvP players do, but at the same time there are plenty of PvE arses like that as well. You have to make the distinction between being a jerk, and just looking for a certain level of experience in your teammates.

Everyone plz read this.



Ok..you've got it all wrong.

1. Rank DOES mean something
2. A ranked person is probably better than an unranked person, based on skill.
3. Experienced people want to play with experienced people.



A 1vs1 scrim does NOT show ones skill.


Taking away emotes and the show of rank titles would make HA pointless, other than getting items from the chest.

While the OP did bring up rank, it actually has nothing to do with the difficulty of forming HA pugs. Maybe only taking ranked players into your ranked HA group makes sense, but the OP is talking about ranked players lording their "superiority" over everyone else everywhere, including PvE missions and hangouts. And the post is not really about ranked players, but just an example of the general bad behavior throughout most of GW.

The best you can do is find an existing guild with friendly people if you can't make one, because the jerks aren't going anywhere soon. I'll PM you some suggestions.

just like being a waiter and meeting some bank director who treats you like shit cuz you are not his "equivalent" or just like in real life, ritch kids spin the Ferrari car keys on their finguer and yell out lod "im wearing Gucci!"

except that in GW its alittle exagerated cuz its a vid game.

Hey Kai, remember me Grim from Grotto!

As for players who has bad attitude, I don't know. It seems that there alot more of them in PvE and PvP part of Guild Wars. What solutions is there to combat these folks, well... 1) ignore list and ingore them for good 2) maybe change party and hope you get players that isn't rude but generally, player's behavior is hard to predict nor easy to counter. I once (accidently) said something bad about the way Guild Wars is running and instantly got over quiet few response saying I should rage quit or go to WoW.

Well, in my case, I'm not asking to join the elite groups. I completely understand wanting to form an elite HoH bound HA group and only wanting Rank 5+ players. There's nothing wrong with that. However there should also be a viable option for those of us who just want to learn.

I want to play HA. I don't expect to win HoH on my first try or even to join a ranked team. I would like to join a group of others who are also learning and it would be nice if the veterans would spend an hour or 2 each week with the newbie teams teaching them tips and tricks.

As it stands now, you are not allowed on a team unless you have fame. Period. And you can't win any fame unless you are allowed on a team.

Yes, there are a lot of girls/women playing GW, but a lot of us play male characters to avoid all the adolescent boys making rude comments.

Hate to burst you bubble, but the idiots are everywhere. The only place that is idiot free is the guild hall.

And how is someone supposed to get experienced if no one will take them in their group? Rank doesn't always mean good player. I've seen high ranked people who were morons in pvp.

Finally, someone with some solid advice and not just put downs. WTG Omni.

Well, what do you know......here's one of the idiots.

Thanks a bunch for posting that Ryker (Psst, is that real GW Armor? How'd you get the Trek look?) And a big Thank You to Omnidragon and Tiyuri for the excellent advice.

This was exactly what I was looking for. Somebody who is willing to help us newbies without cussing us out and telling us to just get lost.

I think I'll start by spending more time in TA. RA seems like a waste of time because you have no ability to choose your teammates. Most of the time I end up with 8-9 year old jerks who spam:
"rez me!"
"rez me!"
"rez me!"
"rez me, you ^%&#"
<Uh, excuse me? Does it say Monk on my collar? I don't think so. I rezzed you once and you died again. I'm out of rezzes!!!>

There's a greater concentration of idiots in Grotto. Just like there's trade spam everywhere, but LA d1 has a lot more of it.

By finding those veterans that will take them into their groups and teach them. Many players are willing to take unranked people who aren't acting retarded. One good way is to look in the Heroes' Ascent forum; there's a PUG organization thread there. Asking questions politely there will get you polite responses, while complaining will get you responses of "QQ more plz". Those who seek to get better do better than those who just complain about not being good.

People who are sarcastic do not necessarily put /sarcasm at the end of their posts.

Luxon 1.5k armor. Not that that has anything to do with this thread.

Some of us say our TS or Vent doesn't work also, because we don't like Random Player #40567 from Alaska talking to us about stuff that belongs on the commercials in early morning TV.

But anyway, as someone who would like to get into HA/PvP more than I am now, this is a daunting challenge. I'm still mainly a PvE'r but when I want to get into something I want to learn to be good at what is done. It's hard with the random PUGs and such, but I'm grinding too. Guess one day I'll get it, like Omni said.

Who said I was being sarcastic? I was just pointing him out for the idiot that he is.

Yes Raven, it is 1.5k Luxon. I got it because it looked like a Star Trek uniform.

Grotto doesn't have idiots. It has peoples who is mentally challenged in there.

This is probably the best advice given in this thread. RnR is a great group of people having gvg'd both against them and with some of thier members, ill will say that comming from a PVP standpoint, follow this.

I was once only into the pve side of Gw, in fact thats what i bought the game for. But i was inbetween guilds and was in a vent just talkign to a few guys that did pvp. they asked if i could monk. i said in pve im a great monk. They gave me a few pointers on what to do and a skill bar to run, and the rest is history. thats where i met some of the early and still top pvp players in this game. Some of which i still PVP with on a daily basis. Getting ranked does take time and yes does take skill, which is where a lot of the rank discrimination comes from. People want to win. they will have a better chance of winning with a r8 pug than a rankless pug just out of the simple fact that the ranked players have spent more time in the maps and with different skillbars than the non ranked players, doesnt mean that they are any better players, just that they have more expierence than they do. Common mistakes unranked/new players make in PVP is skills. in PVE anything can work, no matter how dumb it is. In PVP 75% of the skills used, are used because they work and have been tried and tested in builds that work. New players dont or i should say often dont realize the skill choices they make. This picture proves that. This picture was taken from a GVG match in observer mode tonight.

Now in Picture 1, a Warrior should NEVER have orison of healing, yet you commonly find this in unranked/low ranked players.
In Picture 2, while it may be good on a flagrunner for a self heal, a main party monk should NEVER have healing breeze. EVER!!!
In Picture 3, ... it explains itself....
In Picture 4, well umm.... NO!!!

Yet these are all common mistakes made by new/some unranked players. One of the main problems that ranked players run into when giving an unranked player a shot or inviting them in, is that they commonly run into these kind of things. Ask anyone that has done a serious to fair amount of PVP that is ranked and they will tell you the same. Builds are posted everywhere. Here, guildwiki, team-iq, etc... that give wonderful build ideas and skill descriptions to help newer players understand their build they will be running. also key things like when to preprot, when to kite, when to recognize a incomming spike, when a target is overextended, when to call a spike instead of just pressuring, when to split if in gvg, the ability to recognize a builds weakness, ward placement, character placement to avoid line of sight attacks/spells... these are all things that expierenced players know and have learned from playing as much as they have. Yes even IWAY teams learn from playing. all teams do. Your best idea is to honestly when youre not in HA or GVG, watch observer and learn why people did things that they did, with the idea in mind of those things i mentioned. there are plenty more i didnt mention.

Honestly most of the PVP players will take time out to answer questions abotu getting into PVP, or if u have a question abotu a build, or a skill, or what armor u should be using in pvp, etc.... Its the people that ask u to join because they have fow armor, or they play nothing but RA with a Healing Hands Wammo and feel they deserve a spot in a top GVG or HA guild that piss off the PVP players.

for the Xth million time:
RANK != SKILL.
period.

And yes, they realise you are a real person. They also realise they are on the internet, and chances of having to face you IRL; having to repeat the words with the threat of being smacked in the face are very slim.
Just let it be, and envision a 11 year old full of pimples sitting behind the pc that is in fear of being caught by his mom for playing too long against the houserules, and you can see how ridiculous it is to take them serious.

If you don't like him, and know his name, don't party with him. case closed.
god, i'm so brilliant in these things.

See answer about 11 year olds.

save your feelings for your friends in-game. nobody in All Chat really wants to hear what kind of disasters hit you since they don't know you...

see 11 year old boys, again.

I've seen a few, but not many.

getting a rank emote isn't the thoughest job in GW...
its just grinding it out, much like FoW armor. but easier.
As for how they did it? who cares....
like rank matters that much...

Do we need another thread about rank and emotes? Really?

Is search broken again? There is a huge and very illuminating literature on this topic, with contributions from the finest PvE players to Phoenix mavens. Enlighten yourself...

I'm not complaining about rank and emotes. I'm asking why there are so many buttcakes in Guild Wars. If I was asking for help on getting rank 6, I'd have searched for the threads that tell you how.

Not every PvE player is stupid.

A lot of people that play have huge insecutities and feel that what they do in the game compensates for that. They also make the mistake in believing people care what they think.

Edit: The people that only want experienced players and are "buttcakes" about it are to laugh at because they're wanna be elitests and are way behind doing what other people have been there and done before. I say that with the exception of new things that havent come out yet. People that act the ways you've described are immature.
I think immaturity would be the root of these behaviors.

This is the type of behaviour these people usually have.


The problem with these people is that they are losers. And now they have something to show to the world, they want to shove it into everyone's face, in a pathetic attempt to show that they are not losers, but they actually are.

Rank nowadays mean nothing, you could have farmed rank at the spiritway, iway, sfway...
There are only a few people that actually are rank9-12 and actually deserve it. If they really deserve it, they dont show it to everyone, thats not a winner's attitude.
Beeing a winner is like beeing a lady, if you have to tell someone, then you are not

Why does it happen?

Because good players do not like bad players leeching off their skill and experience. Which is perfectly reasonable.

A better question than the one asked in the original post would be: why do unranked or low ranked players always obsess about joining and leeching off of high ranked players?

"Rank discrimination" really only means that bad players are making illegitimate complaints about not being accepted as leechers into good parties.

If that were not the case then all the unranked/low ranked masses could make their own parties together and be happy with that.

I woke up at a horrible hour around dawn this morning, and after half an hour of my brother ranting about his character mysteriously vanishing, I've lost my patience.

I am not trying to get a HA group. In fact, I don't care if I never do HA again. So why is everyone telling me to stop whining and find a HA guild
Guess what? Un/lowranked players want to play Hero's Ascent as well.

There are some excellent players I have met who haven't even touched Team Arenas or Hero's Ascent.

I'm a hardcore PVE player (if there is such a thing! )who was toying around with the idea of doing a little pvp but hasn't so far.
After reading this thread so far here's what I conclude.

1. I'm rank 0 - since I don't play PVP yet, it looks like I won't either if new players have such a hard time learning. This thread has taught me that.

2. There is an leet attitude attached to PVP but not so much to PVE - I mean I don't go around saying that I've finished all 3 chapters multiple times and unless you can solo THK with just your hero'es I don't want to know you. Oh Anet let me spam my protector titles

3. PVE is more laid back that PVP - you get a guild/PUG and go for a quest or mission - you win you all go "gg" - you lose - many will try again immediately with good groups just realizing that they brought the wrong skillset or screwed up otherwise - no problem just fix that. In general it's co-op play rather than competitive - I like that, it's fun for everyone.

4. It's a real pity that I won't really use my UAS in PVP....

5. People hide behind anonymous characters - a fact of life behind all MMO's. Mature people realize that they're talking to another person - others are so immature that they don't care. Basic human courtesy goes out the window. Unfortunately without proper GM's this won't get solved. The downside of not having a pay to play game.

6. Rank does have it's place - I completely understand that good PVP players want to play with good PVP players. Everyone wants to win after all. Rank is the only way to determine if you've won a lot in PVP previously.
Any party is entitled to ask for high ranked players - it's how they turn down lower ranked players that counts - either with "sry - need rank 6+" or "STFU Noob! ha ha" - big difference to the end person. The equivalent of this is someone who's not level 20 joining your party in PVE and being kicked.

7. I like the idea of ranked districts as suggested by someone previously. We have a ladder so why don't Anet do something to encourage NEW pvp players.
There's lots of life left in this game but PVP is hard to break into. Unfortunately I think it would turn into Ascalon arena with level 5's having droks armor and great weapons. Maybe Anet can fix it so it would work...fingers crossed.

8. Anyone who has a high ranked toon and gives out to noobs should just give it a try with a new toon again - see what it's like to be on the recieving end of put-down remarks. I don't think it would be fun.

9. PVE and PVP are completely different aspects of the same game, which share the common mechanic of skills. Just because you're good at one doesn't mean you're good at the other - everything takes work.

10. And lastly - especially for the OP - it's a game - don't lose that perspective, play to have fun - if you're not having fun then don't play. A few years ago I got really frustrated in some games and went away mad/in bad mood regulary. Nowadays if I'm having a bad game day I just won't play until tomorrow - and the rest of my day is fine. Don't let the game affect your real life, it's not worth it.

Simple way to fix this problem is to seperate out the PvE and PvP aspect for Guild Wars. Long story short, PvE and PvP can't coexist... i don't care what you said about it. No one can't stand neither aspect of PvP and PvE. By removing PvP or PvE out of the way and make a seperate game. It might elimate those rude or unskilled peoples from getting on PvP and ruining the game for those that enjoy it.

By the way, I'm rank 0 and has no intention of getting rank3. In fact, I think PvP is a waste of time where you get ranked half the time by players who think they're better than you and cuss you out when you happened to beat them at HA.

This sounds a lot like a different game that I play. Folks play 1 on 1 matches. If a Level 5 player happens to beat a Level 16 player all you hear is "CHEATER!!!! HACKER!!!!! You're a measly Level 5!!! You can't beat me, I'm the best player in the game!!!!! You hacked the server, I'm reporting you!!!!!"

One of the main reasons I stopped playing that game was because of the immature attitude of the players. (Note: in that particular game, level didn't necessarily = skill. The more you play the higher your level. So a little kid who plays all day every day can obtain a high level even if he lost 3/4 of his matches)

Things are a bit better with the Ranks in GW. I believe that in general a Rank 5 player is better than a Rank 1 player and in a 1 on 1 scrimmage the Rank 5 would win 9 times outta 10. There are exceptions to the rule however.

For all you elite snobs that have been posting stuff like "quit leeching, noob" and "quit whining just because you suck", you obviously haven't been reading the posts very well. Most of us "noobs" aren't asking for handouts from elite players, all we're asking for is a little courtesy and common decency. I guess that's something that the immature player base is incapable of providing.

There are so many buttcakes on Guild Wars because the majority of people IRL are buttcakes.

Its nto that new players have a hard time learning, its that most cannot accept the fact that they arent getting into the top ranked forming groups right off the start. everyone feels that a r3 and a r9 player are the same, when in all honesty, they are not.
While thats fine and all that you think that, there isnt as much of a "LEET" attitude around PVP as most of you all seem to think there is. Just because youre not automatically in the best groups or the top guilds doesnt mean that you wont get there, but many newer players feel that they have the same rights to be there, when in actuality, they dont have the time nor the expierence that the veteran players have. Im not saying that a new player cannot be incredibly skilled, because there are a few out there. but i doubt many people that can come from one side of a game, throw them into another side, and expect them to function like a pure PVP player who has done it for 9+ months for example... also like there isnt anyone that runs around PVE and spams that their weaposn or armor isnt better just because its FOW vs 15k or its dyed black vs dyed red... if you dont think this happens, youre dreaming!
Honestly depending on the guild or if its a pug, the same attitude is mostly applied to GVG/HA by 90% of the top ranked guilds. Guilds will, like in a mission, analyze where they succeded, where they failed, how they won, or how they lost and make adjustments and retry. dont believe me? press "B" and watch. youll often see guilds switching up builds in the middle of a night of GVG/HA.
The reality of this is that only a certian 15-20% of the total skills in the game are ACTUALLY used in PVP. the rest are complete garbage from a PVP aspect.
Again there are just as many morons and immature people in PVE as there are in PVP. dont believe me, then go hand out for a while in ANY major city. youll get the picture soon. and as has been stated many times. Welcome to the Internet my friend, whereas this is an all too common occurance in every aspect of the net.
I cannot disagree with you here. But after the 900th non level 20 in your party, people can be irritated at not getting what they are looking for. Just take things with a grain of salt and youll be fine.
This would only lead to more descrimination by rank than you think. youll hear way more often. ZOMG WHY R U IN MY DISTRICTZ!!!1 JOO RNT R9+ NUBCAK3S!!1

Anet has a guild ladder to determine where guilds rank according to the opponents they have fought. where as HA your rating is determined by rank. GVG only guilds dont have an emote to show off for making top 25... and HA only guilds all have emotes, but no shot at goign to go compete in a tournament... its give and take.
Honestly there have been a number of old school PVP players that had r9 accounts and quit GW. then came back with a new account and within months had another r9 account. Its all about the connections you make in this game. connections/friendships will take u very very far as long as youre not a moron.
If more people had this philosophy, then we wouldnt have threads like this. A very common occurance is that people dont want to put in the time and effort into establishing the connections/learning fundamentals/ grinding out the fame to get into the higher ranked groups and prove their worth. they think that their deer equals the other guys tiger. i mean hey they can both be spammed right?
Honestly, this is the smartest thing you said in your post and probably one of the smartest things said in this thread.

Why are there so many jerks in GW?
If you haven't realized by now that there are plenty of good and bad people on the Internet and you just need to take some time and sort them out, here's your wake-up call. Closed.