Anet really should split PvP / PvE...It does nothing truly positive for any players. PvEers have to deal with the annoying favor system and the barrage of nerfs that is uncalled for in PvE. PvPers of course...don't get affected at all and doesn't care.
Maybe they should refund 1 plat for every skill that they nerf, then it'll be all good (jk jk)
PVP Killing PVE IMO Biggest part of game
Phoenix Ex
Winstar
I'm taking a radical new hardline position,
PvE areas of the game should all be closed except for the low level arenas in various cities. All previous xp must be converted into balthazar faction at a exchange rate of 1,000 xp for 1 balthazar faction. All gold is converted to Balthazar Faction at a rate of 10,000 gold for 1 balthazar faction. Everyones Pet must now be a wolf and named "Elder Wolf", or you may elect to name it "Ghostly Hero", or "Guild Lord". Instead of the standard boring looking equipment in the pvp creation screen, all swords are now Crystalline swords all axes are Sephis Axes and all armour is FOW armour.
Make it happen Anet.
PvE areas of the game should all be closed except for the low level arenas in various cities. All previous xp must be converted into balthazar faction at a exchange rate of 1,000 xp for 1 balthazar faction. All gold is converted to Balthazar Faction at a rate of 10,000 gold for 1 balthazar faction. Everyones Pet must now be a wolf and named "Elder Wolf", or you may elect to name it "Ghostly Hero", or "Guild Lord". Instead of the standard boring looking equipment in the pvp creation screen, all swords are now Crystalline swords all axes are Sephis Axes and all armour is FOW armour.
Make it happen Anet.
Age
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Originally Posted by Warskull
Skill balance means next to nothing in PvE. You can take almost any 8 skills and get through PvE. Nerfs for the most part don't matter. If you were a glad's defense warrior you weren't so useful before. With the change you still aren't very useful. Really only buffs matter in the PvE area (they may buff a skill and cause monsters or bosses using it to become too powerful.) However monsters can be rebalanced in PvE to account for balance changes.
PvP, if a skill is imbalanced it will either be underpowered and become unused or overpowered and be abused. Skill balance has a massive effect on PvP gameplay and outside of the worst cases balance is rarely done for PvE. The PvE motivated skill changes off the top of my head are: Prot Bond Minion change Spirit Bond Most PvE balance is done by AI adjustment and monster adjustment. Skill balance has to be extremely bad for it to break PvE. |
Red Locust
Needless to say, nerfing glad's defense is not a pvp balance issue because the skill was (almost) never used and will never be used in pvp. It's even a buff, not nerf, depending on how you use it.
Eles got buffs all around, including a bunch of nukes that get used lots in pve but will probably never see play in pvp. Actually, almost everything got buffs across the board, so this thread pretty much got derailed from as early as post #1.
Eles got buffs all around, including a bunch of nukes that get used lots in pve but will probably never see play in pvp. Actually, almost everything got buffs across the board, so this thread pretty much got derailed from as early as post #1.
Gizmo Loco
A+++ would read again
Lonesamurai
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Originally Posted by Age
That is because they are really apposed to solo farming.
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and too bloody right too... if idiots want to farm a game, go play an MMO thats easier to farm and grind... Oh, monthly fee an issue? Archlord, its free to play now, go grind your lil monkey farmer hearts out...
Thom Bangalter
Maybe there should be less carebears both in game and on the forums.
Anet, if anything, has been trying to close the gap between pve and pvp to make it more accessible, so you can actually play a game that requires skill.
Anet, if anything, has been trying to close the gap between pve and pvp to make it more accessible, so you can actually play a game that requires skill.
Age
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
That and ebay sales...
and too bloody right too... if idiots want to farm a game, go play an MMO thats easier to farm and grind... Oh, monthly fee an issue? Archlord, its free to play now, go grind your lil monkey farmer hearts out... |
Two April Mornings
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Originally Posted by Warskull
Skill balance means next to nothing in PvE. You can take almost any 8 skills and get through PvE. Nerfs for the most part don't matter. If you were a glad's defense warrior you weren't so useful before. With the change you still aren't very useful. Really only buffs matter in the PvE area (they may buff a skill and cause monsters or bosses using it to become too powerful.) However monsters can be rebalanced in PvE to account for balance changes.
PvP, if a skill is imbalanced it will either be underpowered and become unused or overpowered and be abused. Skill balance has a massive effect on PvP gameplay and outside of the worst cases balance is rarely done for PvE. The PvE motivated skill changes off the top of my head are: Prot Bond Minion change Spirit Bond Most PvE balance is done by AI adjustment and monster adjustment. Skill balance has to be extremely bad for it to break PvE. |
Lonesamurai
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Originally Posted by Age
There are some of us who want to get away from Pug groups and looking at health bars as for bots they are dwindling in the numbers.It is mainly to have fun the same for running.
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I'm also lucky enough to be part of a very successful Alliance aswell, so you'll excuse me if i don't care for he PuG too much... However, even the new players that only picked up the game for Christmas and are part of my guild realize that there is no separation between PvE and PvP, IT'S ONE GAME AND I TEACH ALL NEW PLAYERS I COME ACROSS THAT ITS ONE GAME AND TO GET THE FULL ENJOYMENT AND SCOPE FROM THE GAME, THEY NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT, EVEN IF THEY ONLY PLAY ONE PART OF SAID GAME!
I had this at TGH, even becoming well known as the PvE scrub who didn't have a clue, but in the last few months I've actually managed to get some there to realize that it is a game as a whole and you guys here should too! As it stands, the Guru forum doesn't deserve the Elite status that the rest of Guru enjoys! threads like this are going to kill guild wars quicker than anything the Vocal Minority of PvP only players from TGH or #GWP (including those that where kicked from Alpha or not invited back, could ever do!)
PvE players that think PvP is killing this game need to get a god damn life and smell some breakfast coffee! PvP is a part of the game, but it is beautifully integrated, yet still separate from the game enough that it has no impact on PvE! Skill balances go through the entire game, the difference is that Imbalanced skills are hideously more noticeable in PvP than PvE
Thom Bangalter
#GWP owns, son. And we talk about pve all the time. Just, no one there enjoys it there because there's no skill required to do it, so it gets tedious.
Str0b0
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Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
Maybe there should be less carebears both in game and on the forums.
Anet, if anything, has been trying to close the gap between pve and pvp to make it more accessible, so you can actually play a game that requires skill. |
While I realize ANet is under no obligation to "make people happy" it is good business to make your customers satisfied. Even after all my talk of patience I have realized that unfortunately very few of us will ever see eye to eye. There will always be a large number of PvPers who think PvE is stupid and pointless and there will always be a large number of PvE players who think PvP is equally stupid and pointless. I was apparently mistaken in thinking that solid dialogue could change this since people in both camps are equally stubborn in their insistence that their way is the right way and to hell with everyone else.
To that end I think it would benefit the community and Anet if they just drew a line and basically said" Ok PvP on one side PvE on the other and don't anyone cross the line."
Savio
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
As it stands, the Guru forum doesn't deserve the Elite status that the rest of Guru enjoys!
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| threads like this are going to kill guild wars quicker than anything the Vocal Minority of PvP only players from TGH or #GWP |
Also, the people at both TGH and #GWP are cool, except for JR, and if you continue flaming them or PvPers in general, your posts will be removed.
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| PvE players that think PvP is killing this game need to get a god damn life and smell some breakfast coffee! |
Columbo
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Originally Posted by Savio
That's what pretty much everyone in this thread said (in calmer voices) aside from the OP and about two others; read first, then post please.
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I love playing GW doing PVE and PVP and will continue to do so. I'll not bother trying to bring up meaningfull conversations here in Guru anymore and will keep myself to myself. I fear now having learned what some of my fellow players in GW are really like that I will be playing the game through alone forever now since most seem to have no civilisation. To all those posters here who did understand the meaning of this post I say thank's for trying to help make a change. However I think that it is a battle that cannot be won when most just want to flame others for wanting to do something different from them. And cannot see that there is many different people with different way's out there.
Thom Bangalter
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Originally Posted by Str0b0
To that end I think it would benefit the community and Anet if they just drew a line and basically said" Ok PvP on one side PvE on the other and don't anyone cross the line."
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Unless, of course, you're talking about skill balancing, and as others have noted, it doesn't matter what 8 skills you bring in pve, but it does in pvp, and thus changes are made.
Str0b0
Ok if it doesn't matter what skills you bring then why not make a Ranger/Warrior and take Otyugh's Cry, Focused shot,Equinox,healing spring,Frenzy, Charm animal,and Enraged Lunge. I dare you to go through the game and use only those 8 skills. If you can make it through the entire game, all three chapters or any one of your choosing I'll retract every single one of my statements and admit defeat.
Vinraith
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Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
it doesn't matter what 8 skills you bring in pve,
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Savio
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Originally Posted by Vinraith
It's not just blatantly and obviously untrue, it's designed to be overtly insulting to PvE players.
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Str0b0
No but to make blanket statements that any old 8 skills will do is patently false. If you believe that you can in fact take just any old eight skills then see my last post and if you can do that I will retract my statements to the contrary.
SodOffShotgun
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Originally Posted by Vinraith
Statements like this are why these discussions never get anywhere. It's not just blatantly and obviously untrue, it's designed to be overtly insulting to PvE players.
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Basically PVE is so easy for the most part, it doesnt matter what skills you have on your bar.
Vinraith
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Originally Posted by Savio
I ran around in the beginning
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Vinraith
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Originally Posted by SodOffShotgun
But it is true. Sometimes I'll make a build, pick my skills but forget to set my attributes so basically my skills were at 0 attributes and still most of the time I'd do fine. Same with being shorthanded when people quit or drop out during a mission, etc etc.
Basically PVE is so easy for the most part, it doesnt matter what skills you have on your bar. |
SodOffShotgun
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Originally Posted by Vinraith
The beginning of each campaign is a tutorial for inexperienced players. If builds didn't matter in PvE I wouldn't play PvE. I think that's true of most PvE players. Perhaps I'm just not as l33t as you PvPer's though.
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PVE (especially in a casual game like this) is designed to be easy so that the normal "average" person can complete it. There is no medium or hard setting here. It's stuck on easy.
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Originally Posted by Vinraith
No, it's not, and again, the claim is both so obviously untrue and presented in such a tone as to do nothing more than continue to drive a wedge between the two elements of the game. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd be a lot more interested in PvP if it weren't for PvPers.
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God Apprentice
Op you say that ANet has forgotten PvE. What about all these Double Green Weekends, Double SKill Caps etc. Almost every weekend has something special for PvE (with the exception of last weekends HA update) and also there is the holiday themes.
vaxmor
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Originally Posted by Str0b0
Ok if it doesn't matter what skills you bring then why not make a Ranger/Warrior and take Otyugh's Cry, Focused shot,Equinox,healing spring,Frenzy, Charm animal,and Enraged Lunge. I dare you to go through the game and use only those 8 skills. If you can make it through the entire game, all three chapters or any one of your choosing I'll retract every single one of my statements and admit defeat.
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adjustments: I had to add distracting shot, those claw things were pwning me too hard, I was UNABLE to add EQUINOX, for very obvious reasons.
I could have done it without adding DS, but, we had 4 heroes in the PUG, and I didnt want to add burden to the other ranger. Maybe someone else can do it without DS(?)
Further screenshots are available, just PM.
SodOffShotgun
Argh. Can't edit my post for some reason. Anyway...
I just want to say that I used to be a "hardcore" PVE'er in GW until the repetitiveness and mind numbing easyness of it sapped any interest I had. So any accusations that I'm just a PVP'er dumping on PVE strictly to be "elitist" isnt true in my case. I'm just stating what observations I have on PVE and PVP.
I just want to say that I used to be a "hardcore" PVE'er in GW until the repetitiveness and mind numbing easyness of it sapped any interest I had. So any accusations that I'm just a PVP'er dumping on PVE strictly to be "elitist" isnt true in my case. I'm just stating what observations I have on PVE and PVP.
Str0b0
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Originally Posted by Vinraith
No, it's not, and again, the claim is both so obviously untrue and presented in such a tone as to do nothing more than continue to drive a wedge between the two elements of the game. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd be a lot more interested in PvP if it weren't for PvPers.
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That's true. I think that is what turned me off to some extent, . Particularly on the forums. The general attitude I seem to see is that PvP takes more skill and therefore PvPers are better than everyone else and we should just shut up and acknowledge that. The whole skill thing is dubious at best since I honestly believe that anyone wth a modicum of real programming skill could make a bot team that would monkey stomp any PvP team in existence simply because of faster reaction time and more precise timing of spikes and other tactics. If a computer program can do your job better than you calling it a skill is rather overstating matters. The same can be said, and indeed has been done with bot farming, for PvE the difference is only the biggest idiots in PvE go around saying they have skills because they do it. For the most part we make no claims about how great we are and just wish that PvP would stop acting so smugly superior all the stinking time.
@vaxmor ahh but you had to make adjustments for strategic purposes thus proving that slapping any 8 skills on a bar doesn't cut it. You have to use strategic planning even if in a limited fashion. Also I find it hard to believe that you completed the campaign in the short amount of time between my posting that and you posting your response. The last mission does not constitue completing the game.
Age
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Originally Posted by Lonesamurai
Agreed, and i'm lucky enough to be the leader of a very successful guild and have been for over two years now...
I'm also lucky enough to be part of a very successful Alliance aswell, so you'll excuse me if i don't care for he PuG too much... However, even the new players that only picked up the game for Christmas and are part of my guild realize that there is no separation between PvE and PvP, IT'S ONE GAME AND I TEACH ALL NEW PLAYERS I COME ACROSS THAT ITS ONE GAME AND TO GET THE FULL ENJOYMENT AND SCOPE FROM THE GAME, THEY NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT, EVEN IF THEY ONLY PLAY ONE PART OF SAID GAME! I had this at TGH, even becoming well known as the PvE scrub who didn't have a clue, but in the last few months I've actually managed to get some there to realize that it is a game as a whole and you guys here should too! As it stands, the Guru forum doesn't deserve the Elite status that the rest of Guru enjoys! threads like this are going to kill guild wars quicker than anything the Vocal Minority of PvP only players from TGH or #GWP (including those that where kicked from Alpha or not invited back, could ever do!) PvE players that think PvP is killing this game need to get a god damn life and smell some breakfast coffee! PvP is a part of the game, but it is beautifully integrated, yet still separate from the game enough that it has no impact on PvE! Skill balances go through the entire game, the difference is that Imbalanced skills are hideously more noticeable in PvP than PvE |
I am a member at TGH as well and what ever #GWP means.
SodOffShotgun
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Originally Posted by Str0b0
That's true. I think that is what turned me off to some extent, . Particularly on the forums. The general attitude I seem to see is that PvP takes more skill and therefore PvPers are better than everyone else and we should just shut up and acknowledge that. The whole skill thing is dubious at best since I honestly believe that anyone wth a modicum of real programming skill could make a bot team that would monkey stomp any PvP team in existence simply because of faster reaction time and more precise timing of spikes and other tactics. If a computer program can do your job better than you calling it a skill is rather overstating matters. The same can be said, and indeed has been done with bot farming, for PvE the difference is only the biggest idiots in PvE go around saying they have skills because they do it. For the most part we make no claims about how great we are and just wish that PvP would stop acting so smugly superior all the stinking time.
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And no, I don't tell people to shut up because I think I'm better than them. But having played both PVE and PVP, I can't find much valid reasons for PVE'ers to constantly complain about skills being nerfed when it has little effect. Especially when nerfs happen in every single MMO, whether it has PVP or not.
Vinraith
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Originally Posted by SodOffShotgun
But I find PVE mind numbingly easy.
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Str0b0
And in those MMO's people still don't like nerfs and still vocalize that distaste. I don't know why you expect us to just take it on the chin when it does in fact effect us. I can't get why people keep insisting that nerfs have no effect on PvE. What are we using two seperate skill trees jhere? Do they just change PvP skills and not the PvE ones? Did I miss the memo on this. Of course it effects us.
Coloneh
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Originally Posted by God Apprentice
Op you say that ANet has forgotten PvE. What about all these Double Green Weekends, Double SKill Caps etc. Almost every weekend has something special for PvE (with the exception of last weekends HA update) and also there is the holiday themes.
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Vinraith
On the other side of things, skill changes are not strictly because of PvP. That claim's never held any water, and it still doesn't. Things change in online games, it's the nature of the beast and it keeps the gameplay fresh. It's not a bad thing.
Oh, and as far as skill balancing, PvP should take precedence, though PvE implications should be considered as well (as I believe they are). Skill changes have more impact in a competitive environment like PvP. PvE should be (and largely is) about finding solutions to problems that, by and large, don't change. Changing up the skillset, then, is a means to make us think about new ways to solve old problems. The skillset in PvP, however, is both the problem (in the opposing team's hands) and the solution (in your team's) and thus has greater impact.
Oh, and as far as skill balancing, PvP should take precedence, though PvE implications should be considered as well (as I believe they are). Skill changes have more impact in a competitive environment like PvP. PvE should be (and largely is) about finding solutions to problems that, by and large, don't change. Changing up the skillset, then, is a means to make us think about new ways to solve old problems. The skillset in PvP, however, is both the problem (in the opposing team's hands) and the solution (in your team's) and thus has greater impact.
lilnate22
well if anet takes more swings w/ the BAn bat instead of the nerf bat this game would be a whole lot better and run more smoothly. they are practicaly ELIMINATING farming... now i kno that some chinese/koran/jap scrub out there work in sweat rooms to say and sit and farm for days, but y not ban them like you do ocasionaly,
why nerf farming? its a important aspect of the game to be able to have $$$ to buy w/e u want
why nerf farming? its a important aspect of the game to be able to have $$$ to buy w/e u want
Savio
This thread is going the way of all previous threads on this topic - flaming and much irrelevant discussion. Closed.