[ POLL ] Razah Hero - Obtainable for non-hardcore-24/7-players - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Bane of Worlds

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Meadow

Rt/

29 Jan 2007 at 05:19 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

As if people need Rit Hero, roll 2 SF Eles and MM you own almost anywhere in PvE. People dont NEED Rit hero, people WANT it, then earn it. Razah is pretty much like UW spider to me, just to show off that you have conquered DoA.

QFT

also
/notsigned

people who are signing this even in the wrong forum( belongs in Sardelac Sanitarium) do not have Razah, don't want to put too much effort like gaining other heroes, they will not use em, and didn't consider others who HAVE invested these required gems already to obtain a special hero.
-the variable part was there in the manual maybe because they didn't finalized what to make of this hero
-he's obtainable in the elite area since Nightfall shouldn't have the rit profession and it's like a bonus for those who want to at least have a profession that they do not have access despite they can't make an effective use since you do not Factions
-they did this so there will be an elite hard-to-get hero that will be special to some and a pve goal
-not all heroes are required to complete the story of the campaign like the Acolyte Jin or Sousuke, Olias, Zenmai, Goren,and Norgu as these aren't required for the completion of the nightfall campaign

Vermilion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

NY

29 Jan 2007 at 05:25 - 42

This is an easy fix. Remove the hero reqs for all missions, and move all the quests to get the other heros to DoA.

I helped.

-Old 3FL-

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2006

Western Australia.

Crystal Mountain [CM]

W/

29 Jan 2007 at 05:35 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie

In other words you want to strip away something to work for and replace it by 5min quest thus lowering longevity of PvE goals even more.

Razah is totally optional. Just like more expensive armour. Just like some expensive weapon skin.

Agreed.
You dont have to get him.
If you want him that bad unlock him with faction on a pvp char.

Zehnchu

Popcorn Fetish

Join Date: Dec 2005

[GODS]

Mo/Me

29 Jan 2007 at 05:53 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

As if people need Rit Hero, roll 2 SF Eles and MM you own almost anywhere in PvE. People dont NEED Rit hero, people WANT it, then earn it. Razah is pretty much like UW spider to me, just to show off that you have conquered DoA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bane of Worlds

QFT

also
/notsigned

people who are signing this even in the wrong forum( belongs in Sardelac Sanitarium) do not have Razah, don't want to put too much effort like gaining other heroes, they will not use em, and didn't consider others who HAVE invested these required gems already to obtain a special hero.
-the variable part was there in the manual maybe because they didn't finalized what to make of this hero
-he's obtainable in the elite area since Nightfall shouldn't have the rit profession and it's like a bonus for those who want to at least have a profession that they do not have access despite they can't make an effective use since you do not Factions
-they did this so there will be an elite hard-to-get hero that will be special to some and a pve goal
-not all heroes are required to complete the story of the campaign like the Acolyte Jin or Sousuke, Olias, Zenmai, Goren,and Norgu as these aren't required for the completion of the nightfall campaign

Thanks for the speculation, now if you have facts about the majority of Guild Wars players feel this way then it would be different. Yet you have none.

Here’s a fact

Quote:

Developers knew it was going to be a problem even before they released Razah.

I’m sure someone will have better luck at finding this quote from Gaile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Old 3FL-

Agreed.
You dont have to get him.
If you want him that bad unlock him with faction on a pvp char.

Does that unlock him for pve? I think not please try again.

Qual

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Denmark, Karup.

[PuG]

W/E

29 Jan 2007 at 06:02 - 45

Heroes belong to NF. But when I have said that, yes he is too hard to get.
I wish there was an easier way to get him. But I don't really care.

Omega X

Ninja Unveiler

Join Date: Jun 2005

Louisiana, USA

Boston Guild[BG]

W/Me

29 Jan 2007 at 06:07 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Doog

Razah is an ellite hero to get hence the trouble to get him, so just go get him it isnt a grind by any means and the gems are very easy to get just get into a group and play real simple, they are not going to drop off the gem's just get the gem's and go get him it is easy if you TRY.

Razah is a plain ol' Ritualist. An elite hero would be something special not the run of the mill type. Just like regular weapons from a weaponcrafter vs weapons found in the wild. One is more unique than the other.

NOW, if he could change into any profession at any time, then he would have been considered "elite". But to consider a plain Ritualist "elite" is just plain stupid.

nugzta

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

29 Jan 2007 at 06:18 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

Thanks for the speculation, now if you have facts about the majority of Guild Wars players feel this way then it would be different. Yet you have none.

Here’s a fact

I’m sure someone will have better luck at finding this quote from Gaile.

Does that unlock him for pve? I think not please try again.

Ok tell me exactly when/where is it necessary to have Rit hero in PvE? If you reach DoA then obviously you finish the game without the help of Rit hero. Some people WANT full collection of heroes like people collecting rare weapons etc but theres is no NEED for them to access full content of the game.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

29 Jan 2007 at 06:51 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

Ok tell me exactly when/where is it necessary to have Rit hero in PvE? If you reach DoA then obviously you finish the game without the help of Rit hero. Some people WANT full collection of heroes like people collecting rare weapons etc but theres is no NEED for them to access full content of the game.

It's exactly as necessary as having a 20/20 collector Earth staff. You can debate and say "There's plenty of other staves you can get, with different mods, plus there is Air, Water, and Fire. If you want a 20/20 Earth staff, just buy one from a player, I'm sure there's one out there for only 100k+". Does that sound reasonable? Does it seem fair?

Razah as he is now is ONLY fair if there was a "collector" (as in easy to acquire) version of him. Then the people who like to collect rare things can have their expensive/grind-worthy hero, and the rest of us can have a cheap Ritualist hero.

Talon one

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

ice

W/

29 Jan 2007 at 07:04 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

Ok tell me exactly when/where is it necessary to have Rit hero in PvE? If you reach DoA then obviously you finish the game without the help of Rit hero. Some people WANT full collection of heroes like people collecting rare weapons etc but theres is no NEED for them to access full content of the game.

there is also no 'need' to play the game, except for fun. and thats the reason why ppl want the ritualist hero, so that they can play with builds of any profession if they want to. putting the only rit hero so far out of reach of the normal players isnt much fun for most.

i think the reason why he is so hard to obtain is because he is factions content, and nightfall only players get to play with a profession they didnt pay for - they cant get the assassin hero because the quest is in cantha. if that is really an issue then i think it would be best if there was a 2nd ritualist hero, available from a quest in cantha.

or maybe a vote your fave npc to hero contest: the community votes and the winner is going to be made available as a recruitable hero. i'd vote for prince rurik and professor gai

jackie

/retired

Join Date: Dec 2005

On the Beach

29 Jan 2007 at 07:06 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

WOW what remark... where shall I begin.

Razah is nether an upgrade or a Hero skin upgrade so don’t compare him to a perfect Gothic Sword, Magma shields in comparison to a KC vendors Katana or Lion Shield for 5k plus materials; Hero’s are not optional they are a fundamental aspect of the game, even more so than any single Elite skill or 15k armor. Hero’s are required for quests and are given away, unlike a special weapon skin, 15k, or FOW armor. Razah is a Hero just like Koss NO MORE NO LESS.

As a matter fact you get every Hero (except Razah) once you beat Nightfall giving more evidence that Hero’s are not comparable to expensive armor. Razah is the design flaw of Nightfall Hero’s no more no less. He is the quintessential exception to the rule of all other Nightfall Hero’s and should not be an exception to the rule. Usually exceptions in designs without an extremely good reason are called “flaws”.

What Armor does he replace, what weapon skin does he replace? How do you even compare him as a Hero to all other Hero’s what makes him more elite than any other Hero IN GAME that require the extreme requirements for getting him? What justifies this that makes his “flaw” the sole exception to all other Hero’s in this game?

Can you or can you not survive without Razah in this game?

As you said, one gets all heroes automatically after finishing the game Except Razah.

He is there for those who want to do endgame PvE or just buy those gems. If you feel that you Have to get him, then work for it like thousands of players already have.
Where does it read that ANet has to give Razah for free? If AN wants to add endgame content then it's their choice.

Players choice is to start bitching about how it's impossible to get a hero that thousands of players already have or accept the fact that not everything in this game is just around the corner.

Phoenix Ex

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

Mo/R

29 Jan 2007 at 07:08 - 51

sigh....every 2 weeks or so threads like this comes up....

Yet another effort to ruin achievements that other people spent so much time and platinums striving for....I won't hold my breath cuz chances are its gonna happen just like the inscribable crystalline, the tanked green prices, the superior absorption/vigor runes, ectos and countless other.

w/e /signed, might as well get it over with.

Sid Doog

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

DR (Drunkin Rangers)

E/Me

29 Jan 2007 at 07:12 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega X

Razah is a plain ol' Ritualist. An elite hero would be something special not the run of the mill type. Just like regular weapons from a weaponcrafter vs weapons found in the wild. One is more unique than the other.

NOW, if he could change into any profession at any time, then he would have been considered "elite". But to consider a plain Ritualist "elite" is just plain stupid.

Ok i guess i didnt make myself clear he is a hero in an ellite area and only people that gain acess to this area and meet the requirments should get him BOTTOM LINE if you dont have him dont get him and quit whinning in the fourms about it lol man o man everyone wants something for nothing at all times....................

Omega X

Ninja Unveiler

Join Date: Jun 2005

Louisiana, USA

Boston Guild[BG]

W/Me

29 Jan 2007 at 07:36 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Doog

Ok i guess i didnt make myself clear he is a hero in an ellite area and only people that gain acess to this area and meet the requirments should get him BOTTOM LINE if you dont have him dont get him and quit whinning in the fourms about it lol man o man everyone wants something for nothing at all times....................

LOL! You got to be kidding me. What kind of weak argument is that? The Area doesn't make him elite. If that's the case then everything positioned in that area should be considered elite as well. Even the non max weapons. That's like if I had to go to the Domain of Anguish just to get a bolt of cloth and claimed that it was worth 100k and 3 ectos. Pull your head out of you back end and smell some fresh air.

GloryFox

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Good ol' USA, where everyone else wants to be

Now Plays World of Warcraft on Whisperwind

29 Jan 2007 at 07:38 - 54

Quote:

Posted by Sid Doog
Razah is an ellite hero to get hence the trouble to get him, so just go get him it isnt a grind by any means and the gems are very easy to get just get into a group and play real simple

Now lets break it down and take a look at what you just said.

Quote:

Razah is an ellite hero

… nope he is no different than Norgu. However he was intended to be elite by being variable.

Quote:

it isnt a grind by any means

… nope not true either the average person LFG in DoA is about an hour at least then it’s a few hours of game time per area. Then you must have one of each GEM type on top of that. Foundry alone even with a decent group lasts 5 hours or more and that’s not Grind? For one Gem mind you.

Quote:

and the gems are very easy to get

In comparison to what?

Quote:

just get into a group and play real simple[

.

Sorry but once again you’re very mistaken, if you are not a player who is a member of the right foursome classes of farming then you can forget it. Dervish, Paragon, Assassin and others have virtually no place in DoA as dictated by the community at large. Plus there is this thing called time that real people real issues with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta
Ok tell me exactly when/where is it necessary to have Rit hero in PvE? If you reach DoA then obviously you finish the game without the help of Rit hero. Some people WANT full collection of heroes like people collecting rare weapons etc but theres is no NEED for them to access full content of the game.

All single class Hero’s are easy to get but Razah. This shows the intent for all single class Hero’s to be unlocked and a necessary reward aspect of the game. This also means the Ritualist Hero was the “flaw” of the game design by being left out. I believe that this was unintended and that Razah was meant to be Elite by having a variable class option and he can fill the need for a Ritualist Hero at the same time. This again means Razah was “a flaw” because he was meant to be Elite and variable. Without him you could replace Razah with any other single class Hero in the game.

I personally find the Ritualist to be a valuable asset to my Warrior and Paragon PvE builds just as some people find Norgu valuable. It only took me 2 months to find groups with my skill level to complete DoA mind you. Many don’t have the time as I do, but love the Ritualist class more than a SIN or MESMER. Why was the Ritualist HERO requirements designed differant than any other Hero in the game that is simple enough to get?

If anyone from ANET is reading this please fix your “flaw”.

SirJackassIII

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Belgium

none

N/E

29 Jan 2007 at 07:56 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie

Can you or can you not survive without Razah in this game?

Bad argument. People can ironman every game using starter armor and starter weapons. As such, there needs to be no improvement to armor or weapons besides those.

Quote:

He is there for those who want to do endgame PvE or just buy those gems. If you feel that you Have to get him, then work for it like thousands of players already have.

I don't think thousands have played DoA because...it sucks. On the "buy those gems", ANet once released how much gold people have on their account. The majority had less than 25k. I suppose it's gone up since then, but the majority is still too poor to buy this Hero, let alone for all their characters. If he was only a vanity item like 15k armor or Crystaline Swords, I'd agree that people should grind/work for him. However, a Hero is not a weapon or a piece of armor.

Quote:

Where does it read that ANet has to give Razah for free?

That "skill over time spent" line on the boxes...

noblepaladin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

29 Jan 2007 at 08:06 - 56

I don't think the "you don't need him to do PvE" argument applies here. You don't any swordsmanship skills to beat PvE either, so why don't we make sword skills only obtainable from a trainer in DoA after beating many quests.

ANets policy has always been that the stuff that the "elite" players have (or are able to get) can be easily duplicated in the form of a cheaper but statistically identical version that is easily obtained (i.e. a Chaos Axe is statistically the same as a collector axe, FoW armor is statistically the same as normal armor).

My suggestion is that they should make an ugly looking generic ritualist hero that is easier to obtain and that hero would be replaced by the cool Razah if you do the DoA quests, so that the casual players can get an exact equivalent in terms of performance, but an "ugly skin". All the people who have worked hard will still have the cool skin to show.

Amity and Truth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

W/N

29 Jan 2007 at 08:38 - 57

If Razah were multiclass as was planned and indicated in the manual he would deserve that hard place to get him. It would actually give him the status elite but as it is now he is just a simple ritualist and there is nothing elite about him.

I have him on my monk but I seriously want to spill my stomach at the thought of having to go through this DoA Boredom Crap again on the other characters.

Achievement? Don't make me "rotflol". He is not an achievement at all, he is currently a pain in the ***.

Illuminus

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2005

29 Jan 2007 at 08:39 - 58

Bah, DoA... As always the results are cookie cutter builds which causes certain professions not getting into teams. My main character is a ritualist.. now, i know there are worse professions out there when it gets to getting a team.. but i have simply given up on getting a team in DoA. I don't have the time to wait around 2 hours just to join a team that dies in 5 minutes..

So i have two choices to get Razah.. either buy the gems or bring a cookie cutter profession through Nightfall just so i can play DoA.

I don't mind a small fee to gain Razah, but obtaining 4 gems just for one hero is a bit to much.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

29 Jan 2007 at 09:00 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by noblepaladin

I don't think the "you don't need him to do PvE" argument applies here. You don't any swordsmanship skills to beat PvE either, so why don't we make sword skills only obtainable from a trainer in DoA after beating many quests.

Exactly. Razah is not elite thing, its not vanity thing either, it is tool and if there is no equivalent replacement, it should be avaiable to masses. Frankly, finishing game and completing masters dificulty quest to get him is apropriate enough.

i see it that way that those who opose this change:

* worked hard for their hero and bought gems/erned gems - sorry, you are on board with people who had HoD swords and such. Your achievent is not gone btw, you still were the one to get him the hard way. make screenie of you having razah today to keep bragging rights.
* want it as goal - you are minority here, and there are more than enough other longterm goals, besides this game is designed to have longerm goals optional and not gving you any advatage, you pursued wrong goal. if you didnt earn him by now, chances are that you are not gonna do it anyway.
* have time to do DoA and sell gems to people who dont. deal with it, you choosed wrong goods to trade.

broodijzer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

void

Mo/

29 Jan 2007 at 09:01 - 60

/signed

he's like the only sword available in the whole game, and all the people here are using arguments like "Who needs swords anyway, just use hammers/axes! all those sword skills are just to look at!"

jackie

/retired

Join Date: Dec 2005

On the Beach

29 Jan 2007 at 09:27 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

Bad argument. People can ironman every game using starter armor and starter weapons. As such, there needs to be no improvement to armor or weapons besides those.

No. Argument is based on the news flash that one doesn't lose crucial PvE element if s(he) doesn't get Razah and that's why there is no harm to have him locked behind 4 Gemstones. He is there for those who like to achieve something in this game, even if that is a normal Ritualist hero. ANet can't put superior, unbalanced aspects into the game as rewards, that kind of thing works only in WoW/EQ style of games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

I don't think thousands have played DoA because...it sucks. On the "buy those gems", ANet once released how much gold people have on their account. The majority had less than 25k. I suppose it's gone up since then, but the majority is still too poor to buy this Hero, let alone for all their characters. If he was only a vanity item like 15k armor or Crystaline Swords, I'd agree that people should grind/work for him. However, a Hero is not a weapon or a piece of armor.

Yet there are districts full of people (check how many districts on prime times) playing DoA and build conversations on forums et cetera. Because you think DoA is bad doesn't mean it's a general opinion of Guild Wars community.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

That "skill over time spent" line on the boxes...

If we start quoting fundamentally that particular line, we could start asking if there is any point to have anything at all in this game that is grindable. Skill over time spent = smarter you are in game, easier you achieve your goals. DoA takes 2-3h/ea instances with a decent group.

Like I said before, everything is not just 'round the corner.

pigdestroyer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Los Chavos Del [ocho]

W/

29 Jan 2007 at 09:31 - 62

/notsigned

doa quests are very doable

NeHoMaR

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

29 Jan 2007 at 09:34 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

Well, considering it only takes 1 of each gemstone right? Can't you just buy them? I mean it's under 100k now or near that for all 4.

100k for Razah?

What "special" Razah has? It's just a Ritualist, a hero that should originally added with Nightfall release with a plain and simple (and FREE) quest like the Assassin one.

SirJackassIII

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Belgium

none

N/E

29 Jan 2007 at 09:53 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie

No. Argument is based on the news flash that one doesn't lose crucial PvE element if s(he) doesn't get Razah and that's why there is no harm to have him locked behind 4 Gemstones. He is there for those who like to achieve something in this game, even if that is a normal Ritualist hero. ANet can't put superior, unbalanced aspects into the game as rewards, that kind of thing works only in WoW/EQ style of games.

Neither does one need max damage weapons, max mods, max armor or anything really to beat the game. However, Razah does give an advantage in gameplay -albeit a small one. Spawning Power may be a crap primary, it has a few nice skills that can benefit certain builds other classes can't have.

Quote:

Yet there are districts full of people (check how many districts on prime times) playing DoA and build conversations on forums et cetera. Because you think DoA is bad doesn't mean it's a general opinion of Guild Wars community.

The amount of districts is very few, even in Prime. Build conversations mostly consist of "How can we clear a large chunk with as few as possible to max profit". Most players don't even bother with DoA.

Quote:

If we start quoting fundamentally that particular line, we could start asking if there is any point to have anything at all in this game that is grindable. Skill over time spent = smarter you are in game, easier you achieve your goals. DoA takes 2-3h/ea instances with a decent group.

Like I said before, everything is not just 'round the corner.

Grindable stuff: yes if it gives absolutely no advantage at all. FoW lost the only small advantage it had of not showing what armor type the user had a long time ago. Different types of Swords don't offer anything at all. 15k sets are barely a luxury item anymore.

If Razah were to give absolutely NO advantage, for example there being another Rit Hero with a different quest, then yes, by all means, let Razah stay in the DoA with the Gemstone req. Let him rot there for all I care. Point being, if Anet wants to keep their precious balance in check, they need to get Razah out of there.

Thallandor

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Singapore

Seers of Serpents [SoS]

R/

29 Jan 2007 at 10:04 - 65

<----Dont really care much about Razah anymore. Hence i would vote no just for the opposition.

_________________________
Sometimes its best to say No to get what you want.

jackie

/retired

Join Date: Dec 2005

On the Beach

29 Jan 2007 at 10:07 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

The amount of districts is very few, even in Prime. Build conversations mostly consist of "How can we clear a large chunk with as few as possible to max profit". Most players don't even bother with DoA.

If Razah were to give absolutely NO advantage, for example there being another Rit Hero with a different quest, then yes, by all means, let Razah stay in the DoA with the Gemstone req. Let him rot there for all I care. Point being, if Anet wants to keep their precious balance in check, they need to get Razah out of there.

On last weekend there was approx. 2 english districts, 2-3 german districts, 2~ french, italian, spanish district in prime time. That's quite a bit, not perhaps as much as in ToA equivalents mainly due ecto/shard farming.

If you think it through, getting Razah is not nearly as hard as these complain threads are implying. Advantages of having Razah are close to zero thanks to the wonderful game mechanic that lets one change second professions granted that spawning power isn't available then.

One doesn't have to play 100h+ to get Razah. Only 12h~ all together 2-3h/evening if wanted - assuming that only gems come from end chests and not from mobs at all, there are also solo builds to farm those gems if questing in DoA isn't fun.

Is that really too much of a challenge in an online roleplaying game...

gavin456

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2006

29 Jan 2007 at 10:27 - 67

""/notsigned

doa quests are very doable ""

Yes Doa Quest are indeed doable, but are also very time consuming. for non hardcore player gettin into party and doin the quests takes well over 2hours if not 3.

SirJackassIII

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Belgium

none

N/E

29 Jan 2007 at 10:31 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie

If you think it through, getting Razah is not nearly as hard as these complain threads are implying. Advantages of having Razah are close to zero thanks to the wonderful game mechanic that lets one change second professions granted that spawning power isn't available then.

Yes, and because there is no difference between 12 and 16 in an attribute as well...Koss makes an EXCELLENT nuker BTW. 12 Spawning +16 Communing Shelter/Union vs 12 Communing 0 Spawning Shelter/Union is a big difference. Attuned was Songkai is also an excellent skill for Energy management. Boon/Explosive Groth/Spirit Gift combined with secondary Necro for Minion bombing is also largely dependant on Spawning.

Quote:

One doesn't have to play 100h+ to get Razah. Only 12h~ all together 2-3h/evening if wanted - assuming that only gems come from end chests and not from mobs at all, there are also solo builds to farm those gems if questing in DoA isn't fun.

Is that really too much of a challenge in an online roleplaying game...

You missed some:
- Time to form a group
- time it takes to get accepted in a group
- time to get accepted in a group as a non-Shadow Form Sin, Mesmer, Dervish or Paragon.
- time before everyone agrees on builds
- chance of failure with that group (if PUG, then loads)
- time needed for some to go to the bathroom
- sec, phone

And, probably the biggest consumer of time, multiply everything by the amount of characters you have.

Yes, absolutely no grind required for this gameplayadvantage offering Hero.

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

29 Jan 2007 at 10:42 - 69

/signed.

Some people would like the complete collection. One of those people is me. My band of heroes feels incomplete without Razah. For people who want to be leet isn't Tormented Weapons enough? I'd kill for a Tormented Staff but that's a loooong way off. Perhaps just removing the Gem requirement would make gaining Razah a little more fair. I have no problem doing a quest to get him, or waiting until the end of the game for the privalege.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gavin456

doa quests are very doable

If they're THAT doable then why aren't Gems ten-a-penny?

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

29 Jan 2007 at 10:57 - 70

From what I've heard, the quest itself is relatively easy for a DoA quest. Certainly anticlimatic if you earned the gems the hard way rather than buying them.

I've already gone through my arguments in a previous thread, but if people are counting, I'm in the 'make it easier to get a Rit hero' camp, either by making a new hero (albeit not necassarily through currently available chapters - I'd be happy with one showing up in Chapter 4) or by making Razah himself easier to get - albeit preferably in some way that compensates the people who did pay the price (one suggestion I liked was to give every character a one-off gift of four gems on reaching Anguish - call it a free sample - which most players would presumably use for Razah, but those who have Razah can use for whatever else they want).

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

29 Jan 2007 at 11:27 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

I've already gone through my arguments in a previous thread, but if people are counting, I'm in the 'make it easier to get a Rit hero' camp, either by making a new hero (albeit not necassarily through currently available chapters - I'd be happy with one showing up in Chapter 4) or by making Razah himself easier to get - albeit preferably in some way that compensates the people who did pay the price (one suggestion I liked was to give every character a one-off gift of four gems on reaching Anguish - call it a free sample - which most players would presumably use for Razah, but those who have Razah can use for whatever else they want).

/signed

/signed

/signed again.

Sir Mad

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

Moe's Pub

Pigs Can Fly [Pigs]

R/

29 Jan 2007 at 14:07 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie

On last weekend there was approx. 2 english districts, 2-3 german districts, 2~ french, italian, spanish district in prime time. That's quite a bit, not perhaps as much as in ToA equivalents mainly due ecto/shard farming.

If you think it through, getting Razah is not nearly as hard as these complain threads are implying. Advantages of having Razah are close to zero thanks to the wonderful game mechanic that lets one change second professions granted that spawning power isn't available then.

One doesn't have to play 100h+ to get Razah. Only 12h~ all together 2-3h/evening if wanted - assuming that only gems come from end chests and not from mobs at all, there are also solo builds to farm those gems if questing in DoA isn't fun.

Is that really too much of a challenge in an online roleplaying game...

Yeah but they do come from mobs as well

I don't have Razah. I went to DoA only 4 times (if you except the pathetic attempts the day it was implanted). The 2 first times the team got wipped out in a few minutes. The 2 other times I spent 1-2 hours there. I didn't do any quest. Yet I got 2 gems from killing mobs. If the gems drop as much in the other areas of Torment, getting Razah is easy even for casual players, provided they want to spend a few hours in DoA and try to get him. And no I'm not talking about spending 6 hours there to do a quest, since you don't need to complete them to get him. I'm just talking about 1 or 2 hours trips to Torment.

creelie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Alberta

Charter Vanguard [CV]

Mo/

29 Jan 2007 at 15:14 - 73

I tried DoA a few times, but without a guild it's one of the most frustrating and depressing experiences ever. So I played Factions for a few days, liquidated the assets from that, and bought the gems outright. Easy-peasy.

If Anet were to make an even easier way to get a ritualist hero, I would definitely want some kind of compensation - draxynnic's idea is a good one.

As for Mallyx and the rest of DoA, you know what? Let them be. It's good to have Mount Everests in a game, especially when they're in an out-of-the-way place. Before Factions and then NF came out, the only things keeping me going were the titan quests and Sorrow's Furnace.

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

29 Jan 2007 at 15:15 - 74

/not signed. You simply need to play the game to get this endgame reward.

xxSilhouette

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Lost in the sands of time...

Blood Of Orr [BoO]

R/Rt

29 Jan 2007 at 15:22 - 75

I do think its cool that there is a hero there that is hard to get, beacuse its always nice to have something that requires work to get it. But I agree with you, beacuse I haven't gotten him yet myself, and i don't have the time nor the patience to get together a group that could screw it up (I get angry with other players easily...)

/signed
But i think he should stay where he is, I just think a quest would be better than the gemstones.

ca_aok

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Xen of Onslaught

E/Me

29 Jan 2007 at 15:41 - 76

Quote:

This is an easy fix. Remove the hero reqs for all missions, and move all the quests to get the other heros to DoA.

I lol'd.

Razah is a grind, plain and simple... however, there's no reason to take that goal out of the game... it's something to work towards in the end.

The easiest solution is to farm and then buy the gems... 100K should take you about a week to make (faster if you have money to powertrade), and the gems cost ~100K for all of them now. Hell, bring a monk through NF and titan gem farm, get two of those, sell one for the other 3 gems, there's razah for 2-3 hours of work.

XvArchonvX

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

R/

29 Jan 2007 at 16:23 - 77

/signed for getting him without visiting an highend area where casual players can't survive. It MUST be possible to get him with npc/heroes only.

I don't mind really that you have to work for him, but I do mind that not ever profession really performs down in DoA equally and it makes it incredibly hard to get this hero for characters of certain professions. Also, I have played GW for a long time, done lotsa stuff, farmed just about every high end area to death, but never really done too much DoA for the simple fact that it takes a big dedication in terms of time period to get through most stuff in DoA. I don't mind the challenge, but I can't often dedicate consecutive number of hours that is needed for most of the areas. This has never been an obstruction from any of my goals before in GW, but it has hindered me from much of what lies in DoA.

Perhaps one of the biggest problem of putting Raza in DoA is that the standard of allowing casual players to be able to get equipped with everything that the hardcore players have, but with with less fancy designs (i.e. collector weapons and armor compared to FoW armor and gold crystallines) has been a bit broken here. Hardcore players get a rit hero and the casual players don't. While I don't think this makes much of a difference since it's only a rit, a good compromise would be to put a less flashy rit hero somewhere else in the game so that the players that work for Raza still get the status symbol showing that they went through the trouble to get to him, but other players are still allowed the same functionality from their heroes. Either that or put another rit hero somewhere in the game and make Raza a character that can play any profession.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

29 Jan 2007 at 16:25 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

/not signed. You simply need to play the game to get this endgame reward.

One would think that really playing game (you know, all missions, etc) was enough ...

Hell, as long as there is no Rt hero option, it should be enough.

---

I would like to remind everyone that we have incoming massive Rt buffs that improve this profession enough that not having Rt hero and wanting him will no longer be matter of principle but plain disadvatage.

Wondering what reaction of people would have been if elite hero was only monk, only ele or only necro in game... new and improved Rt can be just as important.

Saphatorael

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

29 Jan 2007 at 16:51 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

/not signed. You simply need to play the game to get this endgame reward.

But I have. Completed Prophecies 4 times, almost a fifth (deleted a ranger at RoF), completed Factions 4 times, Nightfall 3 times (and my assassin is at Gate of Madness, haven't bothered to give it a try yet)...

I bought the game, and one of GW's main appealing points is its accessability.

Spending 3-5 hours on one quest is just a little too much for me.
I've never cleared UW or FoW due to time shortage, yet I still managed to farm some materials at times to eventually get FoW for my mesmer.
But this time, it's a hero. A unique hero, even, since there aren't any other Rits in the game!

I didn't pay 55 euro's (not counting the other 2 CE's) to always see something I'll never be able to get (sure, I can farm the crapload of gold needed, but that won't help me finish the required quest, thus making the effort futile unless I actually do spend 3-5 hours, which I can't.), and besides... I don't play the game to get rich, I play it for fun, and for the sake of having a bit of everything.
Razah is just too... separated from the mainstream players, with his high cost and (presumably) tough quest.

I'm not opting to make the DoA easier, I just want to lose that feeling that I'm not getting all the possible value for the price I paid.

It's like buying a FPS game, and you can obtain all weapons except a special, über-rocket launcher of some sort; even though you see other players use it (and crush you with it) in multiplayer.

Faer

La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo

Join Date: Feb 2006

29 Jan 2007 at 16:53 - 80

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10084824