Why use an ele?

Ok, here is my newest debate: Why use an ele? The main purpose of an ele is to nuke. (or at least thats what most people use ele's for). Later in the game, for SF, UW and FOW, most groups neglect to use ele's because necro's (MM and SS) are much more effective. Esepcially after the AoE nerf, nukers spells hurt the group as opposed to helping.

Other skills besides fire are used as well, but aren't solely for damage, rather status effecting. If thats the case, it seems that one would choose mesmar or ranger for interupt and status effecting spells for effectiveness.

Again, besides having more energy than most why use an ele?
What could an ele do better than other classes.
If you have an elementalist, and still use in PvE, what builds do you use? Why should someone invite you into their group?

IMO i feel that ele's are the weakest of the 6 classes even though i understand the game tried it best to distrubute classes evenly.

Well, Nosaj, I don't know the answer. I have a fully leveled ele/mo/mesmer, who can do earth, air, fire, or water. I myself am uncertain what to do with the ele now. I put a lot of time and effort into him, but he's sort of on the shelf at the moment. My warrior, ranger, and monk all seem more fun to play.

If ANet was going to do something to weaken the nuking capability of the ele, I think they should have given the ele some compensation by removing the nasty exhaustion restrictions on the better ele spells.

i don't think A-net intended the latest Aoe nerf to hurt an ele as much as it did. The porpose was to hinder solo farming (IE symbol of wrath, balth aura, ect...) It just so happened that ele's seem to be hurt the most in normal gameplay by this nerf.

What do others think?

Earth and Water spells have become more effective, as far as slowing spells or protection wards go. Fire spells still have quite a few instant-damage spells. Air spike spells still work, although this is PvE.

My suggestion is to try to make your spells work together. Elementalists are probably the only class, possibly next to Rangers at times, that never had to bother setting up a real skillbar, and just throw together favorite attack spells since they're all fairly generic. I see a lot more creativity coming out of nukers now, usually combining group knockdowns with AoE so that not only are they still effective, but they're also running denial builds.

My first character was a E/mo fire nuker, lvl 20 now, but i play my ranger a LOT more as it just seems to be more fun and flexible. Being an ele is slightly restricting to what one can do, even though dabbling in each of the magics, they are used for different things... i just dont have as much fun with my ele as with my ranger
~^__^

You make a good point, but i'm more concerned with the events late in the game where groups are looking for specific builds.

Monks = Heal or prot build.
Ranger = trapper/interupt
Warrior = tank/interupt
Necro = SS / SV / Battery
Mes = Interupt/annoy the hell out of everything
Ele = not as effective at any one particular thing as other classes

exactly right, the ele was a high damage low armour class, people say go protect or slowdown but other classes do it so much better, i havent played my ele since the nerf as what an ele did best was totally destroyed. it really was bad that they took so much from an ele and gave nothing back

To add insult to injury, people say DoT AoE spells on the fire ele are great for defense now. Lets ignore their original purpose was to do damage. On top of that, Fire eles were still underpowered when it came to damage compared to other classes. They were more or less due for a buff.

Sure it was great to improve they AI, nothing against that, but it shafts the purpose of eles all together really.

"zOMG Y uz an ele..." thread...
I am elementalist monk. I have been an elementalist monk since 2004 betas.

Why use elementalist:
You can play offensive and defensive (with any element except fire, ugh fire).
You have the most energy and you can use it.
You have nice armor for males (IMO) compared to mesmer, monk, and warrior armors.
Elementalists are in almost every game because they are the "main" casters.

Ele. is great for secondary class skills.
------------------------------------
Elementalists can use mesmer secondary as a great way to string many hexes or to duplicate existing skills (hence so many e/me).
Elementalist with earth magic wards and necromancer wells = unremovable buffs.
The only class that can use Light of Dwayna effectively in heal balls.
The only class that can use heal area effectively besides monk.

class specific
--------------
The only class that can snare to 90% slowness with earth magic and 66% slowness with water.
" " that can penetrate armor from a distance consistently (earth/air). (Rangers have penetrating shot, warriors have penetrating blow and sundering stuf but those are physical damage).
" " that can blind from a distance.
" " that can get many pips of energy (ether prodigy).
" " that can knockdown from distance on the spot (gale). <-- spike trap doesn't count, it is not on the spot.
" " that can enchantment buff people's speed. <-- something I love to do as an air/mo.
" " that can 7 degen someone on the spot with burning, which is a condition.
" " that can mass interrupt with maelstrom.
" " that can use glyphs.

EDIT: I hope this encourages you to think beyond the single line of fire magic. I sure have. I abandoned fire magic as soon as I left the northern shiverpeaks.

Sure, you can name stuff that only they can do, but how much of that useful enough to warrant including in a group over some more important character? By my count, none.

I play a Me/E build that's fantastic for doing direct, fire-spiking damage, and it completely ignores the fact that there was an AI shift. People need to stop assuming eles are useless just because damage-over-time no longer "works" the way it used to. My ele build doesn't even consider damage over time, and it's quite useful.

Similarly, the same concept could be applied to air, earth, or water. An ele is more what you make it. If people put as much time into thinking of a really good ele build as they do into figuring out how to squeeze every last drop of damage out of their rangers, then we'd have some more really good elementalist builds out there.

People need to stop assuming that eles are fine just because they can put 8 skills in their bar that wont make monsters run for the hills-and then back.

The elementalist, specifically the fire line is supposed to be the damage class of the game. Yet every class can dish out much more damage with less effort. To counter a 'high damage' fire spell, you just have to interrupt it, which is easy as buggery, or side step it and the ele just wasted 15-25 energy. gg owned.

It's really hard to side-step Meteor Swarm followed by Rodgort's Invocation, Incendiary Bonds, and a Fireball for good measure. If you get a few fast-recharge items in your hand and a couple of energy management skills, you have suddenly become a reasonable powerhouse.

The thing is that you -can't- just 'throw together' a skillbar if you want your ele to be any good.... just like most other builds. Except IWAY warriors, but everybody already knew that.

You make some good points, but others i don't agree with. YES ele's need to think outside of fire. There are other uses for an ele other than fire nuker, but the "Ele is the only class that can...." i disagree with.
- Slowness 90 and 66% your right, an ele is the only class that effectivlyslows; but who cares in PvE. Thats not nearly as useful as simply killing them. Plus most casters not't move anyways so this only really stops warriors or allows your group to run away (who does that??)
- Armor penetration is another ele ability they are good at. But, sundering weapons penetrate, as do attacks as do degen. In PvE, which is what this thread is pertaining to, armor penetration is too specific to be added to a group for.
- Blind same as armor penetation, others can do as well, but who uses often in PvE.
- For pips of energy, Nerco is the battery, and monk essence and balths. They specialize in energy.
- sure they can knoch down from a distance, but again, interupt ranger does the same thing, as do mes, and much more effictivly.
- Speed why??? for a runner = warrior
- 7 degen is the best. But all classes can degen. Let others who specialize in it do the work
- Malestrom is good against casters, but i can't keep my ele for 1 skill.
- others can't use glyphs becaose ele is the only class with them, no big advantage to them

All points you make are good, but nothing i see would jump out at me to answer the original question to this thread: Why whould a group choose an ele later in the game? WHat can the ele contribute to the group that other classes can't (and let me add now, that are useful)

Please excuse my spelling through this, i never check.

Now were getting somewhere. If you have a build that you still find effective post it. But defend why it works, and why a group should choose you as opposed to a MM or ss necro for example.

I only mentioned snares because people complain the darn monsters keep running.
Blind is useful in PvE. It lessens the load on warriors taking the damage from meleers and prevents casters from being endangered. Same thing with speed. Knockdown? Knockdown is good for defense too you know. No other class can knockdown from a range.

Glyphs can be used for every spell. An Ele can use glyph of energy for a mesmer , monk , or necro spell. I use them often for rebirthing.

Contrary to popular belief, sundering is NOT useful. It penetrates one time out of 10 hits (for a couple of damage).

Degen is dps not spike damage, you can't compare apples and oranges. As for dps there is always burning.

I have a necro. I do not call it a battery. Batteries are things you use in your electronics. Just because it gives pips of energy doesn't mean that's all a necro is good for. That's the problem. People think too much in their tunnelvision mindsets.
"war.= tank, ele. = nuker, necro= Minionmaster/battery, mo=healer, ranger = trapper, mes= interrupt."

There are not only these 7 builds. Guild wars would be like every other MMO if that were the case. You are not restricted by your skills. Every class has 60 or 70 something skills. You cannot use all of them in conjunction with one another but if you only use 8 skills all the time you need to open your mind to other ways of playing.

First, i agree, that there are not just seven builds in the game. I simply used these as examples as they seem to be the most common used for each character. You could not be more right about that, but again i disagree with some of your points. And yet again you fail to ultimatly answer the original question! "Why should a group choose an ele as opposed to other more effective classes" Show me a build(s) that are as powerful as a MM or SS for damage.

Now.... to shoot down your points!
- Knoching down is useful, but why bother. a mes or ranger can interupt is reallt needed, but let the spell go through. It is the monks job to play defence. With a good bond barrier and heal monk, let the warriors attack all they want. They will be dead before they can have any impact what so ever, esepcially with a ss on mm in your group.
- again i agree with you on glyphs they are a useful part of an ele's aresonal.
- i've never used a sundering weapon myself, co i can't comment on that, but the armor penetration for an ele probabally more effective. But it is not more effective than SS. That ignores armor as well, lasts lokger, and takes effect any time a for does anything. Also with a good MM 10-20 fiends hitting the same target will drop it in seconds.
- i understand what degen is, i may have not stated clearly eaelier my point. Poison, bleeding, hexed are all degen. Rangers, warriors, and mesmars all can do this, and are better at it then an ele.


All of this said IMO ele's are inferior overall to the other 5 classes. Prove me wrong. Show me a build comperable to any of the other 5 that will work. It if your going damage, give me a build better than a mm or ss. If your going interupt, give me better than a good mes build. ect......

My first char is an e/me and I have all the ele skills and the most time logged there. And where in some cases I want MM or SS and could see it being more useful (have a n/mo too flushed out) to be considered not as useful?

Pure silliness.

One problem I had with people chatting on the patch-
1st day it was horrible even one-off AoEs didnt work
Now its still quite fine - yes somethings dont work as well or different but I still can LEVEL things much quicker and consistently with my Ele than anything else

Echo'd Meteor Storm (with echo, arcane echo, or my real preference glyph of renewal) still does tremendous damage. Fireball is a great one-off AoE, immolate a great single burner. Firestorm isnt what it was but I never used it past meteor storm anyways. Lava font is now more for breathing room with some damage mixed in.

Water Malestorm takes a big hit - it was great even for fire nukers just for the casting interrupt. However lead with Deepfreeze or any other area slow and it really will put on the kabosh. MindFreeze + Malestorm on a targ is silly interrupt and ultimate caster ownage (obviously at an elite and exhaust cost).
The slow adds and even some damage helped this out a bit too.

Earth still rocks defensively (heh) and got even more buffing in some ways.
I dont play them as much but Kinetic armor with spam mucho fun.

Air quality 1 target spike, not much can match it and it takes very little/any effect from the more recent changes. Still a regular pvp.

So lets look at MM and SS comparison

MMs rock, but fall to area dmg/degen and maxing out pretty much at 18 vs 24/28+ mobs... no armor piercing, specials, needs corpses and maintaince, some other mobs use bods quicker etc etc

SS rocks but as focus fire goes on targets only last as targets last, slower casters dont act so quickly, and not all mobs (ranged) clump up close enough for it. So stops when mob dies with it on, unlike Ele AoE.

I still devestate with GoR, Met Storm, and the rest of my line-up.
I have no mana issues, a very large energy pool, and quite frankly things still drop quicker when I play my ele game than any other most of the time.

Yes as my necro gets their game on MM can go faster and need less surrounding. But on a party wipe or shortage of corpses or vs tougher enemies or the party kill speed isnt fast enough, it suffers

Yes SS is super sweet, I was playing with it before it became a name brand in ToA. But it doesn't interrupt requires multiple casts and relies a bit on the action speed of the target. ie Met Storm on a monk >> SS on it (until the monk is fearing for its life spamming orison).

So I find this thread a bit goofy but then I've logged a ton of ele hours and try things out over hearing about them. GF/SF/FoW/UW yes my ele still mows them down, and quite frankly my output easily matches or has been better than those necros I've been paired with. There are times MM or SS comes more into play, but raining rocks and DD, burning, and added love never goes out of style or use.

And you can also solo and even arguably be the 'gear tank' see other threads under ele if you're interested in that.

Ok, a good post, you talked about skills and used examples.
In my experiances, i have a necro and a ele, and i've found that i can cause much more damage with my necro than my ele. I never ran out of courpses later in the game simply because the amount of mobs, and they still tend to clump together as long as no one used fire storm.

Now there are skills that are fairly obsolete (firestorm and similar), do you thing GW will evry change that?

Anyone else find it funny that the difference between Fire Elementalists being a 'must have' for 'serious' teams and being left completely in the cold is...Firestorm? Yes, Firestorm was absolutely the key to the PvE Fire Elementalist. Without it, he is nothing.

Do people even stop to think about these things before they say 'em?

Here's a dirty little secret for all of you - Necromancers were *always* stronger than Elementalists in PvE. Minionators are almost without question the most productive teammates you can have. Spiteful Spirit was always a great skill for the 'gather all the melee dorks on a tank and AoE them to death' strategy (held back solely by being in a terrible line). Blood nukes still aren't appreciated nearly enough - guess what, level 28-30 monsters have lots of armor, and blood nukes ignore that armor completely.

The only reason the other classes never got any respect is because people were too busy looking for the generic tank/heal/nuke trio that has existed in every game they've played and they wanted to reproduce it here. The 'nerf' to AoE nuking (which, practically, affected one skill in that trio) was apparently enough to get people to look for an alternative.

The only unfortunate part is that people are still sticking to the braindead instead of thinking for a moment that maybe, just maybe, there's a bit more to this game than one cookie cutter strat.

Peace,
-CxE

nope apparently they dont. I used firestorm before the AoE nerf, but not anymore, meteoer shower was always my favorite anyways. its not that they nerfed nukers, its just that you have to have some intellegence and a good tank to nuke now, its not as mindless as it used to be IMO. metoer shower knocks down every 3 secs, so with a good team, or a bit of slowdown from a water ele, the mob=toast. its just that eles arent all powerful "godly" characters as they used to be. get over it folks. balance is good.

Ckaz, i still devistate with my GoR e/mo as well, meteor shower is still effective, and i am still a major damage dealing asset to any party. i dont know what kind of eles you people run into, but mine still works just fine ty

and to the guy below me, who are you refering to? firestorm still has its uses, you can pull aggro off of your squishies with it

Have you played the game in the past month? A-net nerfed firestorm, and is now arguablly the worst skill in the game. enemy's now run out of the way.

Personally I have used my male pyro elementalist since around 2 weeks after the game was released and haven't noticed much of a change tbh. The "AoE nerf" didn't really do much in my opinion except stop me using firestorm which was a crap spell anyway tbh, I still use my pyro and have no trouble finding groups (when I use them) or farming (when I do it). Well no It did actually force me to find some sort of a build as someone said before instead of just cobbling a few high damage spells together.

- Knocking down is useful but why bother?
Area damage AND knockdown with repeat. If you haven't gathered 'why bother' I have to assume you haven't played an echo nuker, nor have no idea why and how this has owns, and still owns mobs.

- SS/MM again
SS- many higher level mobs don't clump up or necessarily act that quickly, plus those with the hex on them need to be standing. True Ele AoE is effected by the first point too but have strong DD as well (without reliance on health levels or sacrificing or costly mana like a necros might). Ele bombs don't care how fast the target is acting or if it is alive.
MM- many higher level mobs make use of corpses even quicker than you, may not leave a body, or simply own the little level 18s (sorry, its true) with increasing degen stuck on them. I'm a big fan and user of both these techniques. MM certainly has its place, and even uber in some cases, but I'd rather have a serious ele nuker first - power in all cases.

- Degen
You do know what burning does right? Mark of Rodgort and my little flame wand keeps you at 7 degen until the hex goes. Immolate is cheap dmg with burn, there's area burn. Air is a great utility element with conditions. Think about combinations with other classes too - no class lives in a vacuum. ie your SS necro - you're using arcane echo right?? Meanwhile you look at ele by itself.

- Prove better
Point is meteor storm Interrupts AND Damages. Immolate Damages AND Degens. There is no bigger mana pool, there is no reliance on mobs dying or having bodies - or even staying alive (SS soakage). There is raw power here and so far I've only been pushing the common PvE bombage of fire. Water and Earth allow combinations that push into 'invinci' territory. Air has utilities that can be used as serious DD but I like their combos even better. I'll even toss you one - heavy melee hitter on you? E/N - blind them and virulence. They can't hit you, have 7 degen, weak if they do hit, and you nuke them at will, yes when I pop this on I do extreme pvp ownage as part of a build - I was killing those ne/me or me/ne fragility spikers too with it.

It's funny how cyclical and 'bandwagon mentality' this game can be.
Some classes get the love and it moves on.
Some people open there eyes (or read some posts) and jump ship.
Now where Necro wasnt getting the love (from those not thinking for themselves) it is, maybe in part as the less popular classes get played.
Mesmers get more love than they used to but primarys still dissed - still I'm surprised you suggest primary mesmer>ele in PvE but whatever.
Rangers too are at least getting some recognition but are still left out more than not. Meanwhile the core got the most love at first. Now a post suggesting you cant be as productive with an ele, when truly little has changed. Shrug.

I've played 3 chars all the way across all the classes and I still have some pieces to learn about the primaries I haven't gone the whole way with.
But I can only assume you haven't gotten the most out of your ele if you havent laid waste to the opposition and don't find yourself a key player.

And just like you're pushing n/me as the way here it seems e/? has a lot of options as well as ?/e. There are some serious combos to be had. SS certainly is the flavor of the day and remains one of the few not batted by the repeating AoE nerfstick. It certainly makes sense as the choice in some situations like UW with the very heavy hp regenin Aataxes - it sticks on for the long haul, they clump up, and swing fast. But >> all, all cases? Nah.

That's funny man, I love it when people who don't play the class put their two cents in Yeah Firestorm key my arse. Can any SERIOUS elementalist raise their hand at this? OMG it left my bar after Met Storm and never looked back.

Obviously you didn't get that far



Secret my arse. Again I was a very happy SS user BEFORE people bit on it because 2man UW became the shiznit. Yes they have some good DD options as well as I mentioned. But no they don't bring the payload nukes, sorry.

And again you seem to be one who can't see outside this 'nerf' or even the skills you start with in presear

Oh well I've said my peace.. serious ele nuker with Firestorm indeed.
Yeah maybe Orion and your pre-sear character

I've pretty much got all the skills on my account now and can say a lot of skills constanly get overlooked, combinations, etc. This game isnt hard and there's not one primary that can't hack it VERY well, its much more in the hands of the player, and the group.

Oh by the way curse was hardly horrible - SS/MoP was solid until AoE backed MoP off too. AoE nerf effected all classes, and that first day even one-offs werent safe. The next day re-patch, no big deal. Yes 10 second firestorm and maelstorm got whacked a bit. The former tho isn't bad on your monk for some damage and clear-up, the latter lead with deep freeze or something.

Big deal. See I am open about the other classes and their skills. But if you're thinking Firestorm ftw, wow, sorry about the nukers you've been playing with!

Cheers
CKaz

Ckaz, if you read the last line of that, he was being sarcastic. he knows that that is bs. read carefully before you respond.

Use an Ele because they are cute. The males dance funny too.

Elementalists are very versatile, if you're willing to rely on your secondary.

Ever tried a five ele SF run? Bet you could do with with 4 Ele's and still do it as close to the same speed as a normal 5 man squad.

Just because some AoE spells can't be used doesn't mean there useless. There are plenty of fire spells that can do instant AoE damage and do good.

Echo/Arcane Echo Meteor Shower and throw in a Deep Freeze. I doubt your target will be running away anytime soon.

AoE spells still aren't useless. They still do damage to the whole area for a few seconds before they leave. If someone deepfreezes them as well, they take even more damage.

i might possibly get flamed for this but,
i actually use my air spike ele in pve quite a lot.
i dont see why eles have to be aoe damagers, mine does fine spamming air spells with dual atunements.
out of groups i am usually in, i probably do more damage to single targets than all or most of the other group members, plus, i throw in one or two support skills from the earth line or my mesmer secondary to help out.
half of the time when i use ward against melee is SF, i get a ty from the team monks and occasionally other players who have just been helped.

basically using a typical pve air spike build i can deal massive damage to the enemy via air spikes (including aoe and knockdown from chain lightning and lightning javelin) and support and help my team with wards or enemy debuffs.

can anyone tell me why using an air spike build in pve is a bad thing to do? i cant think why it would be as long as you know what youre doing.

Sarcasm >> CKaz

Self-ownage FTW

Not looking to bang out a novelistic post like the above, I will say but one thing on the matter.

Spiker.

What, ele is good only for volleyball? Lol.

Anyway, minion masters and Spiteful Spirit necros are good for consistent damage. For actual degen incendiary bonds, immolate, mark of rodgort, rodgort's invocation still are king...


People always forget about wards...and earthmagic PBAOE...

Go for the best of both worlds and make an e/n or n/e. My e/n regularly uses suffering + incendiary bonds on large packs of enemies for quick and nasty degen.

Forgive the off-topic nature of this post but,
Rangers who don't set up a real skill bar are the ones that plague random arena now. Right now, every time I see another interupted barbed trap or another blind shot poison arrow, it makes me wonder: is this the new wammo? Its nice that eles' are getting new and more creative builds but what happened to rangers?? Every time I go to the arenas its either half assed trap or poisoner/interupter/trapper/degen (joke for whoever gets it), or a ranger spike easily countered by blindness. The creativity in builds is a JOKE right now. When I went to the arenas with signet of midnight and antidote signet, along with mantra of inscriptions, I managed to shut down a warrior and ranger for most of the fight and keep a generic (must be the ele's version of a wammo) fire ele dazed and out of the fight. When we won flawless, the other team started talking crap like what kind of ranger blinds himself or noob has to blind to win. That shows that people are sore losers, creativity is opposed, and their monk sucked too much to bring mend ailment. I'm just curious, do you ele's have that feeling when you see another fire attunement or a tank seeing another mending or a ranger seeing another poison arrow? I need to share this frustration with someone and know that I'm not alone.

Anet dident really nerf the ele's , they made the Iron wall of Aoe pure and simple spells come off and the smart players know that by looking beyond this spells that if u build the ele correctly its much + lithol then the old builds people where using... I found killer : Earth/water build, Fire/Water (yep i swear it works ). But iven taugh the ele is now mother RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing (excuse the bad language) overpowered if u would just take the time to find the correct build, i find that without the aoe damage its boring. So in conclusion do not make the ele + powerful then he is. In other he is on the shelf till new elites arrive, i use him has a storage unit //Signed: Hector The Mursaat(my char's name)

Okay, build time. =D

Elemental Attunement [E]
Fire Attunement
Leech Sig/Energy Tap
Rodgort's Invocation
Meteor Shower
Incendiary Bonds
Fireball
Res Signet

The PvP version of this is a Fast Casting Mesmer/Elementalist (16 FC, 12 Fire) who can get these high-instant-damage spells off quickly and easily without being interrupted and with relatively nice rate of fire. Meteor Shower isn't impossible to dodge, but if you catch them at the right moment, they're going to get hit hard. After that, apply Rodgort's and Incendiary - the latter being a quick hex that a monk will be hard-pressed to remove. Then, if the target is in range, a fireball will add quick fire-spike damage to a foe and his surrounding buddies. Essentially, if there's any grouping up at all, these spells will hit more than one person.

In PvE, this skillset works too... but is better served with E/Me (Energy Storage 12+, Fire 12+) where you don't need to worry *as much* about being interrupted. This way, you do more damage with more energy as a resource.

As I said - add a few weapons/offhands that increase skill recharge with fire, and you're in business.

Downfalls: -Disenchants can turn this build into an energy nightmare. Best used, then, with a monk who can give something over the top of it - or by an E/Mo who can Healing Breeze from time to time, etc.

But overall, it's a solid build that does NOT rely on Firestorm's AoE damage over time - rather, it's a bunch of high-energy, high-damage AREA spells that will work a good majority of the time, thus making this particular Fire Ele a formidable foe.

Well well...
My ele is the key for 2 man IDS farm, 2 man SF farm or 1 man, 3 or 4 man UW or 4 man FOW farm... i still doing huge damage with fire skills (and dont scater foes), can play as massive healer, can play a real panzer tank(can tank like a mountain)... can play a deadely monk killer, can play a dont stop river of damage... dont need a necro, mesmer, ranger or warrior in my partys... just a monk... if u dont kwon how make a powerfull build... i dont tell to u...
But i like to play all classes, all have nice skills and are fun to play... before SS and mark of pain, be popular i use this skill with my warrior, i dont copy and past build of anothers, i make my ow builds... my ranger is the best, my warrior is the best and my ele is the best... just use the right skills...

Wow, I just read through the whole thread. Many of you need to stay in school. I got a headache by attempting to read some of the posts.