Why use an ele?

Well, I just had some of the best nuking experiences I've had in a long time.
with two Eles and no MM in SF, we managed to bring down the due of monk and mesmer (was Garbock and Korvald) in less than 30 seconds... this also flated out the surrounding area and no dwarf was left standing.

The thing is, while pugs are about whether you get lucky or not, I almost never get to kill this due on the fly like this with a MM. It was fun as hell until we stopped to laugh about it and the priest ressed them both. We than proceeded to kill them again ofcourse...

1. Grab a tissue and wipe your carebear tears

2. Bring a Snare.
- Water based area snare + your favorite nuke
- Ward vs Foes + your favorite nuke
- Ranger Trapper + your favorite nuke
- Bull's Rush frenzy warrior anyone?

Get creative.

That's the second boss pair for FA, and yep, that's a difficult set of bosses for a MM+SS pair. It requires a good and fast pull by the warrior so they can be isolated without minions aggroing everyone in the room.

It can be done, but it requires the team to understand how MM+SS works. But that's really true of all builds, now isn't it?

A E/Mo was my first character. With her I got to lv 20 and all the way through the shiver peaks... then the nerf... Now she is no longer fun to play. I had it all worked out to. Everything was fine. Warriors would actually agro a small group around them... monks would heal them... mesmers would interupt the enemy and necros would exploit them. And then there was me... standing a little to the side raining hell down upon their heads. It was wonderful. But now... warriors madly chase around those enemies that now run from firestorm. Its all a mass of confusion, elementalists are worthless now IMO which really makes me sad. I spent most of my logged hours playing as her and now all my wonderful tactics for PvE are useless. Now I play more as my Ranger, Necro and Warrior... my Ele with her 15k sets and awsome rare weapons sits unused. I can't take her anywhere... no one wants to use an Ele anymore. Only use I have for her is back in ascalon when her spells are one hit kills before they have a chance to run lol.

I'm seriously thinking of deleting her and making a mesmer... but I put so much work into her it would pain me to do so... But I have not had the time to sit down and try and figure out what to do with her exactly... or what skills work and don't work. I know its wishful thinking but maybe Anet will balance things out so that the Ele isn't the weakest anymore... they sure fked that up...

If you play PvE I dont think you'll have much fun with a mesmer. I tried one with an open mind, but the further you get in the game the more useless you feel.

My first char was an ele too, they were great fun to play. Yes they were easy, but they didn't deserve what they got with the AoE nerf.

My Mesmer is my favorite character. It's one of the most diverse classes in the game. The only thing it doesn't have is lots of direct damage (though it DOES have lots of contingent damage). The Mesmer isn't for everyone, admittedly, but I like it.

It does seem to be largely unappreciated as a class, though. I don't mind that, really. It's kinda cool to have a handle on one of the least-played classes in the game.

Mavrik, my advice to you is this: find a good direct fire damage build and see how you like it. Try to refrain from putting firestorm in your skillbar at all costs. Or try a different line. A good Ele is a terrible thing to waste.

I'm on my first character still, an elementalist/mesmer who's just gotten to the desert (but is Level 20 and has Drok's armor).

I don't see what the complaints are all about. I just walked him to Augury Rock without knowing the way. Not a big problem, except for the getting lost part. He can kill two Hydras easily solo and three at a time if I'm careful (although there's a problem if I get sloppy and more show up before he's recharged), in a build without elite skills. I've skill capped with him in Snake Dance taking just 3 henchies; on a good run I can farm with him in Snake Dance taking just Lina and Alesia, even though the griffons have Spellbreaker, which has to be one of the most nuke-unfriendly skills in the game.

Except for solo hydra farming (not a pursuit one wants to stick very long with anyway) I'm not exploiting the fact that the AIs are still stupid about Backfire, and anyhow I can kill them 2+ at a time without it in a simple Inspired Nuker (TM) build.

I don't see what the complaints are about. The class seems plenty powerful enough for me. And I'm far from a skilled player yet (don't have my timing down, for instance, to keep Kinetic Armor up very long). And there are many perhaps-useful spells I don't have yet -- Aftershock, Flameburst, Glyph of Energy, Elemental Attunement, Mantra of Recall, etc.

I just fail to see the problem.

And by the way -- I suspect that every class has victims that it's particularly easy for them to farm against. Right now I'm exploiting the fact that gargoyles are one of those victim groups for me. (At one point I went up over a full level just farming at Gates of Kryta. I'd discovered which submaximum caster weapons sold well in Ascalon, so I was actually making a bunch of gold in the process.)

MMMmm,
well I (E\Mo) use\used mainly fire all through the game. Completed nearly all with hench. The only one I cant finish with hench in SF is the priest one, where someone needs to stay with him on the steps. Obviously tried all the spells, but found I never bothered with meteor\meteor shower\firestorm. just took too long to cast. Finding a consistantly good build for pvp takes some doing. BUT, oh boy is my earth ele good at farming!!!

Maybe you can give me some good mesmer tips sometime. I still want to try one out.

I did have some good success charming Charr before the nerf without using firestorm. Basicly I'd cast Rodgart's Invocation(sp) and then when they rushed me, I'd cast Inferno (or what ever its called that sends a ring of fire around you) usually killed those lv8 charr with that. Or I'd cast RI and wait for those to rush in at me, then cast Phoenix on the ones who stayed to cast at me, killing them and the axe fend ones attacking close range. But I loved standing in a fire storm or meteor shower dealing mass damage to a group of enemies... Most of the other fire skills are individual damage ones... I haven't had time as mentioned to tinker around and see just what works and what doesn't. Well I know what doesn't lol...

I'll wait probably for chapter 2, get those new character slots and then make a mesmer...

An ele was my second character for guild wars, I've been playing since the game officially came out. I put a lot of money and time into my ele but I just found it boring first of all. Yes the damage was great and all but Eles since mobs now run from AoE spells minion masters are more effective alone. The always have been people just went with the Eles for farming because it was the trend. My MM was always able to dish out more damage lvl 18/19 minions do last awhile so you arent always throwing out veretas like most people think, at least untill they build up degen. If you want to cause even more damage with an AoE spell use mark of pain... enemies cant run to well from ranged attacks now can they :P.

But after the AoE nerf I used this build and it worked decently:
flare
meteor
echo
arcane echo
inspired enchantment (random groups never bring strips)
meteor storm
maelstrom (didnt work as well as it did but it still bothered casters a little)
and incin. bonds

This build was pretty balanced and worked well for me

Well, while I do think the AoE nerf was good for the game, it really stoped depending on eles alone. I know its hard for some, but if someone sees meteors comming down hitting nothing but air, why not draw your enemies to it? I've had many cases where I drew dwarfs to my meteor shower, knocking them down, letting all the rest finish their job faster.

Eles just need to use their head now, thats what the nerf was all about. Its good, its gooood.

I played an ele/r for the longest time (until the nerf) and then i discovered the joys of playing a warrior. Warrior is my primary toon now for pve and pvp but the ele is still very usefull in almost any area except regular pve. My guild does FoW and underworld farming most of the time as a trap group and we do take a water ele with us. the point of the water ele in a group is after we lay all our traps and pull a few bad guys to us the water ele slows them down and makes sure that the bad guys get the full extent of our traps before it has a chance to run away. Now we also run a 2 to 3 man ele team in GvG battles, when we do this we have one or 2 air spikers and either a wards,water, or fire ele depending on what we want to do. i don't care who you are if you get hit with 3 OF spikes that are timed right your going to die. a bonuse to running this many ele's in a GvG are really simple. if we have a warder and our monks are getting there asses kicked well then they have some place to go. if we are running an air spiker and we have a monk running from us then that monk can be hit with gale(so we can get to them)and then lightning orb or surge so by the time we do manage to get to them they are at half health so we don't have much to do. also our flag runner sometimes uses a water ele to run the flag since you can hit a target without having to get too close. and there is nothing better than seeing the other teams flag runner going so slow he would be passed by a snail if there was one. and another thing if you happen to have a water ele in your group as well as a fire ele(which we sometimes do) then all you have to do is hit your target with things like ice spikes or ice prision to slow them down and then hello metor shower. and this combo also works on npcs. they can't run from an AoE if they can't really move.

The secret of a good PG is the player
Bad player......bad PG

It's kind of funny (in a tragic way) a lot of times, before that patch, the only way my mesmer could get into a group for PvE was by advertising as a mesmentalist (fast casting fire nuker) lol The irony

If read in its entirety I'd argue it's not obviously sarcastic.
Further he suggests Necro>>Ele. /disagree a well played one.
Just like a well played Necro was underrated, just like a Ranger, just like a Mesmer

edit - ok with 3 calling it eating crow per below, self-ownage ftw! :b

It seemed like the regular knee-jerk reaction, but if that's the ruling I'll take it.

I didn't get sarcasm from the text itself, particularly when you went on to suggest Necro>>Ele. I've played the crap out of both characters many many ways and it really depends more on the challenge and what I and/or the group is trying to do. Certainly Necro can own, and the fact SS no AoE nerf and even works a little better now very good for Necro, and MM has a lot of teeth. But there are times I wish I had my nuker for extra umph, just like at times I wish I could make use of a corpse or drop some SS love on 'em.

Ah well gotta self-own sometime.
On a totally unrelated note I got my 1st IDS soloing with my warrior yesterday so I'll revel in that for solace

Cool 3 posts on that thanks, I got the self-ownage call already
What I get for zipping thru stuff @work sometimes. Doesn't mean I bought into necro>>ele. I like to think I'm a pretty good speller though so I'll help you out - 'overall' has two 'l's.

No way really?!?! Actually though have you done higher level stuff at all? Level 28s usually don't just keel over, and ya see you cast your big bombs EARLY while they clump up, not LATE like celebrating henchmen. You actually kind of tie yourself up in a knot above. You say DPS is king but then targets are dropping like flies. There are very few skills that don't have a place, and trying to assume you have it all down might be reaching, particularly considering your post.

That's why 'theory-GW' only goes so far. In a group I'm constantly delivering nasty nasty AoE damage with some single target DD mixed in for knockout priorities or when they're not clumped more of that. My build works, and the core of it didn't notice a bump with the patch (again but for one day when they nerfed every kind of any AoE and everything ran like nuts).

That was my comment about his liking Firestorm which I already am admiting self-OWNership. Otherwise I'm not sure how to read this - I'm a bad man because you shouldn't screw PvE over for PvP? - but I'll bite. Must be that reading comprehension

If it's just for PvP, hey GREAT IDEA, have some things work differently there rather than sack PvE. Their changes arguably didn't even make sense (so instead of the AI finishing off kills they run from low damage AOE pulsing attacks for example). For one day it bit, it was over the next. I have no problem with the current patch. As it initially came down though it made a lot of problems for ANY AoE, yes every class had some effect - a surprising # of Necro skills for example.

I'd argue about Feast>>SS most situations but that gets off topic, as well as what you can do at lower levels and the curse line. I was just saying it seems people ignored MoP just like they ignored SS (until UW made it a buzzword). AoE nerf hurts MoP but not SS. MoP wasn't elite. Combined it was a lot of fun in certain situations, thats all. Curses has some neat things but I would agree it could use a tweak, just like Mesmer's illusion line.

But all this gets away from me firing back at the original thread, 'Hey I still use and enjoy my elementalist' rather than some of the other posts 'Why bother now' and 'I deleted mine'. Whatever. I'm a rube for going after Ensign - it's pretty obvious I was looking for someone who made a bad argument and was ready to open-up, and I picked a sarcastic one. Oops.

I appreciate you all appreciate necros. Players who have played do. Just like other classes can own. Meanwhile though we have those saying 'why Ele' and how a Necro>>Ele. I already appreciate Necros so I don't need to defend them. However as this thread suggests to throw the ele out of the group I whole-heartedly disagree. NEEDED? No. Short of a monk (and rarely are they needed as much or as many as groups suggest) and an aggro magnet (which doesn't have to be a warrior) there's not a lot NEEDED. Even there right off the bat you have solo builds for many classes - not just monk and including ele. Also successful all Ranger groups, etc.

I'm not a fan of blanket statements in this game - even your 'some skill sets have no place'. I'd love to see your list of skills that have no place.

That was mentioned if you wanted to pull off what Maelstorm used to do by itself (utter spellcaster group ownage pve), yes you'd have to lead with some kind of opponent slow. It was so good in some cases as a fire nuker it came along. But Meteor Storm, particularly doubled up, does the job well enough.

Deep Freeze slowing a whole pack isn't a bad thing though and has other uses. Waste time? Usually it's a lead off spell. Energy? Maybe you're using one of the energy Glyphs. Keep in mind you're probably using an attunement. Maybe another did Grasping Earth, whatever.

Easily replaced? Well as it was, Maelstorm wasn't easily replaced - 10seconds of click and forget interrupts on a caster pack, with damage if you put a bit into water. If you mix with some kind of slow it could still provide some kind of that love, just mobs won't take the shower like they used to.

Anyways that was more of an extra. Mesmers and Rangers certainly deny or disable better, point here was this used to disable (and either allow or do the killing) entire casting groups. I owned hydras with this spell in Perdition Rock. So where you might argue 'why would you bother' if you could replicate the effect, might you not check it out? Maybe two need to pull it off for energy and timing considerations, but another option.

I just don't like blanket statements for this game because they're usually wrong. Which got me on this thread, and also got me owned

But I'm eating my crow - yumm! However my post remains that eles are hardly useless to the point of deletion. The patch hardly did a thing.

And Necros don't magically spring >> Ele. They always rocked, just some didn't know it. But all those 'class' >> 'class' are a bit of a joke, because with some real thought there's not many class/class combinations that can't be made to do practically whatever you want. I've bothered to get all the Ele skills (with elites), my secondary was Mesmer and I have all of that, and I have most of the other 2ndaries (including elites) for it too. That allows for a lot of configuration. And still little makes me say 'well these were obviously filler skills'.

If more overlook the elementalist so be it. But I wonder about those who like to write them off as shallow yet jump on the latest trend (ie SS). I have 3 chars through the game with all classes covered yet I always have more to try. Across all of them. As this thread targets Ele, I have all 4 caps w/their sup runes, all 4 collector staves/rods/artifacts, a 'iele' outfit for e/mo, enjoy e/me and e/r (incl a nice solo build), e/n had a particularly fun build for pvp, and admitably havent done a lot e/w but played with some 'super tank' there too.

It's all what you enjoy. With 4 slots you're limited - if I had 8 I'd have all classes primary, a slot for pvp, and a slot for a character to go through the game with another I play with. Maybe we'll get that with the expansion, but then we get 2 more classes to play with (hope for 10 slots! :b)

It's just odd to me, because people yell 'obvious' or 'boredom' with ele, yet a lot of these same people only take stabs at other classes when someone comes out with a build for them. Shrug. But that seems part of the game. Certain builds get popular and that's what PuGs want.

I haven't been that effected though as I henched through the game outside a couple and did my devistation w/o group approval. That included being a fire nuker in the desert with maelstorm loaded too - worked awesome. Or a GoR (Glyph of Renewal) nuker in a PUG but still changing to /me so I wouldn't have to explain how I'm still an 'echo nuker' (and even a better one in my particular build).

Ok this got long - all done! Cheers
CKaz

It's all great advice, but picking up the henchies and testing my ele outside Elona Reach versus the drakes, trying earth, air, fire, and water was not encouraging. My monk, warrior, and ranger all do a far better job.

i really dont understand how so many of you find eles useless. i just cant comprehend it. yes, firestorm is really not a good spell anymore, we've concluded that. But, metoer shower with a glyph of renewal or echo is still very useful, when an enemy is getting knocked down every three seconds, its hard to move out to quickly, and if you are casting rodgorts and incendiary bonds while the meteor is happening, you have a large, mostly dead mob before they can even move. my ele is still my most played character, and i dont think that will ever change. the AoE nerf really didnt change my play style that much, and those of you that say eles are pointless just because you cant use the EXACT skill bar you used before the nerf, are really just not trying. sorry. you just arent...now i'll probably get flamed. oh well. i just felt the need to defend all of us that know how to play an ele, and still love doing so. oh and did i mention, fire isnt the only element that eles can use? try earth, for massive damage, knockdown, and support wards, or how about water, to slow your enemy to a crawl(take a page from those annoying ice imps' book), im no air expert, but many have great success with it as well. its called CREATIVITY. and thats what needs to happen. im tired of cookie-cutter builds running pve and pvp amok. its sad, i actually dont run into many eles in pvp anymore. people give up so easily. i really dont get it

Personally, I really like my elementalist and I will throw my $.02 in here. A lot of people are talking about how elementalists have been nerfed by the AoE thing. This is true of certain spells, specifically lava font and firestorm (for the fire guys), however when I use fire magic I have yet to see a group of mobs run out of a meteor shower due to that spell. If they break aggro, it is almost always because I cast an AoE spell on them too soon after the meteor shower. I usually fire a few blasts from my wand after the shower and then a rodgorts invocation and I never have problems with mobs running out of aggro. I do SF runs with a few guys quite frequently as well as UW and FoW and I have yet to have problems with mobs breaking aggro when I nuke.
For soloing I use an earth/air build and it is quite effective. I clear the prophet's path/skyward reach areas regularly. So I really can't say that the ele is nerfed. I think they are balanced well and one simply has to combine spells well. For example, when I solo I use whirlwind and aftershock quite effectively. The whirlwind knocks the enemies that I aggro down and the aftershock will do almost double regular damage when used on knocked-down opponents.

Everyone, i would like you thank you for your posts.

I have taken a lot of heat for starting such an emotionally stiring debate; and for good reason. I made a few blanket statements that i should have been more descriptive about. Also, I should have been open minded about more builds with my ele before posting such a topic.

Those of you who defended me, thanks. Those of you who shot me down, stepped on my face, and burned me at the stake, thank you as well. Some of you have 'opened my eyes' so to speak with ideas i would have never though of. I have tried some of the suggested other builds here and have have good success.

Anyone who still finds this topic interesting keep posting, but besides that, thanks to all for your reply's

Ok lets take that then, though testing vs one target is an odd one.
What henchies did you take? For the record there wasn't ONE thing I didnt successfully do with just my E/ME and henchies in the desert, INCLUDING all the missions there.

What wasn't encouraging? Were you interrupted by them?
That may be why the only other caster you mention better was monk?
Consider Glyph of Concentration.

What's your secondary? If you're E/ME there's also Mantra of Concentration (or Resolve which becomes a more worthy of a consideration if you happen to be pumping Inspiration anyways). There you can still use arcane echo too. I'm leaving elites out of the picture for now too.

Didn't the Drakes blind with their Earth skills? Forget off-hand, but unlike what it does to the warrior and ranger it does of real worth to the ele.

Take too much damage? Earth line armor and wards stack ridiculously well. Some of your own earth blasts in return can ignore damage. You should have some collector items or at least working on them which helps any element.

They're casters too, snare them with any number of choices and with their longer casts Maelstorm could tie them up a bit for you. If you had the mind freeze elite, focusing on one with that and Maelstorm would write one off immediately.

If you respect them, their damage, their survival - they're earth elementalists.

As warriors often have a tougher time with warrior mobs, consider that too.
I forget offhand if they are more ward vs melee or elements, but that could be a factor to consider.

Anyways it's hardly an exhaustive test, and without better details about all your test subjects, lines, skills, equip, etc, its really hard to make much of it.

But kudos for giving it a shot anyways

Before you make any general conclusions, you really need to test out your ele with various builds against various monsters and in various locations. Certain classes and certain builds are good or crappy against different types of enemies.

An elementalist for example does not really interrupt enemy spells (ok, with some knockdown spells this can be done, but not as quickly or effectively as a ranger or mesmer) and so testing your ele against spell casting drakes was probably not a good test. Try using your air or combination air/earth or air/water elementalist against Jade warriors! You can blind them, you can weaken them, and with water or earth you can slow them. Many many more examples I can make ....

I'm playing an Ele/Me, moseying on along through the game, and having a lot of fun. Level 20, unascended, Drok's Armor, and I find it pretty easy to solo two hydra, but pretty hard to solo three. Solo farming has its issues with this class combination -- except against gargoyles -- because it's not realistic without a lot of enchantments, and hence

A. Is vulnerable to enchantment strippers
B. Runs into severe problems with skillbar space limitations

Still, I look forward to trying again once I cap Ether Renewal ...

But going out in a party -- even a henchie party -- as a straight damage dealer can be a lot of successful fun.

And by the way:

1. Backfire deals a lot of damage.
2. So does Arcane Echoed Inferno.

Tough to put both in the same build, however.

Oh, and here's a build idea not to use: Mist Form and AoE water spells.

At least, don't use it against Blessed Griffons -- they run Smite Hex. (Youch.)

My first character was an e/me. I didn't enjoy playing her because I thought the self-healing skills weren't enough and I had to depend too much on healer/protector henchmen or monks in my group. I mainly used earth, but I experimented with the other elements as well.

Personally, I found the character boring and have moved on to an r/mo that I'm having a lot more fun with. I didn't find there was enough to do with my elementalist for it to be fun.

Now anytime I get in a group with an elementalist, I notice they need the most healing.. I'm not really a fan of them. Constant healing is frustrating.

Hate to break it to you, but fire goes against armor level, while most necro skills do not. High level mobs = high armor level. Ignoring the armor level gives faster and more efficent damage. That causes them to drop like flies, not the 300 damage potential spells that have 60-80% of the damage mitigated. Only the mursaat named critters really go super high, but im sure you understand what im talking about.

So you want an award for still being able to use some of the skills to a reasonable effect? I dont think anyone you commented against seriously stated that all AOE was unusuable. Many are talking about other more viable alternatives in the place of the standard elementalist echo builds.

Splintering up the game for how skills work would be detrimental to player knowledge, because the game is attempting to blend the two together.

Considering your comparisons agianst eles, while including necromancers in the subject its not that hard to follow the corrolation of FoC in the discussion.
I dont know if they are finished modifying the AI, but it would be nice if mobs didnt cast through backfire as well or attack through empathy unless the next attack will kill. That is a mob intellegence issue, not a SS/AOE issue.

Dont read forums and play what you want to instead of trying to convince others that a > b > c in instance z seems alot easier.

That is the crux of the issue, not if people like playing it or not. The point is that every profession should be equally needed, not just key parts from some or one over another.

Use the forum search function.

Short of a 90% slow, the monster will move out of it before 3-4 waves pass. I forget the exact count since i did not go out before this post to check exactly how many and what types will do that. If something is snared before a meteor shower and is in the center when it hits, the knock down element of the meteor shower will prevent most of them from escaping. Using ice spikes, ward against foes, or frozen burst tends to be the most efficent.

See above.

Hence the AOE patch. Also mobs will escape the malestorm with anything short of a 90% snare. It takes rare positioning and monster types to allow them to get multiple hits on them while snared and have them move back into the malestorm for the remainder of the duration. Shower only works with other snares due to the time spent knocked down. These balance issues however only apply to pve, as in pvp these skills do not provide results unless it is impossible to escape the area of effect.

You seem to point out many of the reasons why the AOE patch was put in place easily.
Limited pulls, cry of frustration, or like i stated earlier with the class skill diversity existing that you didnt need to use it. Considering the monsters involved, simply moving effectivly eliminates most of their threat. Only one profession really needs to stay in one spot constantly while engaging a target. Even so, the warrior does not need to do so through meteor showers, eruptions, and other happiness.

Only with ones that were made incorrectly or too specifically. You happened to do both at the same time.

That is just like most of the mindless people who included firestorm in their echo nukes or warriors who dont know how to body block or pull, but whatever.

It's all in how you use it. There are plenty of good ele skills that aren't AoE's that can't be done by any other classes.