What the 4th Campaign needs to do...

There are many threads dedicated to what the fourth chapter should be called, what professions (if any) should be added, what areas of the map it should take place in, etc.

My feeling is that all that speculation fails to address what the next campaign must accomplish in order to keep the Guild Wars world growing and vibrant.

This isn't a "Guild Wars is dying" thread <shudder> but a discussion about how the 4th chapter of Guild Wars can strengthen the overall game.

Here are some of my thoughts:

Guild Wars will not benefit from another chapter that spreads out its player base further. I believe that the next expansion should actually be set inside one or all of the previous chapters. This would keep the current population in place without initiating the usual diaspora to new content areas.

Not to say new content can't be introduced but it can be done using the existing maps and outposts. Obviously, there will have to be some enticements but I feel that there are many ways to add to the existing game that would attract people to buying a new chapter. (Auction Houses, for example.)

In effect, the new expansion would have in game "advertising' because previous campaign owners would be mingling with the new campaign owners.

This doesn't necessarily require that ANet:

-add new skills
-add new professions

Anet could simply choose to add 3 new RACES*, one for each previous chapter. Thus, using the existing environs in the game and ensuring that the population centers don't drift further apart.

(*NOTE: The new races don't have to be non-human, but Centaurs, Dwarves, Charr, seem to be obvious possibilities.)
In order to pull this off, the next expansion would be focused on current campaign owners instead of creating a standalone campaign as they have done before.

Additionally, ANet could roll all 3 chapters up together in the next expansion with the addition of the new races. This would be a good way to have a compilation release along with new content.

ANet doesn't have to give up their model of releasing standalone campaigns, but they need to have a "breather" every now and then in order to stabilize and centralize the player base of previous campaigns. Doing this every 3 chapters should be adequate.

Generally speaking:

The priority of next campaign should be placed on strengthening the existing game world. The expanding universe approach often causes a hollow world effect. The next campaign should focus inward but in a big and interesting way.

This doesn't have to leave new players/Guild Wars adopters out in the cold; it just needs to create new destinations within the existing game world.

Thoughts, ideas, criticisms welcome.

EDIT: Emphasis added, no text changed.

/signed for most of it, but RACES OMG? this isn't WoW

As long as they make a good area that does not have to have a "perfect" team (like DoA) or that takes 4-15 hours to complete I will be happy. I still do Tombs regularly because it is just more fun than spamming SF for 3 hours just to get close to the end and have one person e7 (monk) and another leave (tank). Also they need to seperate PvP and PvE..one should not affect the other in any way. And the thing that would make it the best of all....character specific quests. Make a different set of quests for elly, ranger, warrior, etc. I love the game, but after you finish every quest and every mission with a character or 2 then having to do it with the other 10 of your characters is boring, so if it was different each time it would be lots more fun...or they could let you do everything with one character and then you don't have to redo it with another unless you want to.

That's for sure, and I don't want it to be WoW, lol.

But, we aren't talking Nightelves and Orcs. Granted the slightly unoriginal Dwarves are already in the game world, but Charr and Centaurs are rather unique.

It doesn't have to be Races, but my point is that something could be done to fold a future expansion into the existing world for the reasons I stated above.

The hook for a new chapter could be a combination of new skills, races, professions and/or perhaps, game improvements such as an auction house.

I agree that races would be interesting, but for people like myself who have already invested time in many characters, it would kind of suck to be able to only have 2 new characters that would be non-human. Though I would love to gallop around as a Centaur or do /roar on my Charr.

EDIT- If they did implement races, I would still want new professions.

Adding new races/professions aside, the next expansion could offer 4 character slots instead of the usual two slots <for prior campaign owners>.

/unsigned

No personal offence intended, but you really don't get Anet's business model nor the extent to which players would complain about these ideas.

These ideas seem like they would not only cost Anet a lot of money in the form of fewer sales, but it would also raise a HUGE outcry from players. Both from players complaining about adding new races and making the game more "WoW like" and from players complaining that they did not get all new content. In addition, not adding new skills or professions compltly leaves out the PvP comunity, resulting in even more lost sales.

Anets business model revolves around creating all new content every 6 months, expanding on both the PvE and the PvP gameplay. This includes adding new missions, quests, exploreable areas, towns/outposts, skills, armor, weapons, and probably new classes.

If your looking for a game that adds new content existing areas, or need some kind of additional closure on old plotlines, you may be in the wrong place.

Now, so this isn't just a "rant" post, some ideas of my own:

-Hero system needs to be expanded on and refined. New hero's added in next chapter, a story heavily centered on those heros. Restrictions also need to be added, restrictions to re-encurage PuG playing and keep this from becoming a single player game.

-Another form of PvP that allowes PvE players to "ease" into PvP. Factions tried with the 2 Luxon Vs Kurziks maps but did not go over the best. Possibly a 6v6 challage (so HA can move back to 8v8).

-Another idea that may not be as good is to create sub-proffesions. Such as having a Warrior brance off and choose between 2 or 3 sub-profesions. This would include adding new skills and attributes but not need a ton of new armor and the other trappings that come with all new proffesions. (Some would argue that "sub-proffesions" could be done with just diffrent builds...they would be right. Thats why this idea is not the best for this game.)

My suggestion ISN"T mutually exclusive, and I know full well how ANet's business model works. It works well, but it needs to be sustainable.

But, ANet's current business model is the equivalent of strip mining without the added benefit of planting trees or reclaiming the exploited areas.

I think ANet can retain its business while strengthening its base.

This is what I meant by taking a "breather". ANet would still be selling an expansion and attracting new players, so this isn't a detour from what it has always set out to do. BUT, the focus would be on the established game world in order to counter the expanding universe we currently face.

Your ideas are great and they can be implemented to accomplish what the next expansion needs to do. This discussion is less about my specific ideas and more about ensuring sustainability.

I just don't agree that adding new races makes Guild Wars more "WoW" like. I mean, playing the game over the internet doesn't make it more WoW-like so why should adding races be exclusively a WoW owned concept. It's silly.

Besides, there are races already in the game world already established. Just because you add races doesn't mean you have to add "racial abilities" etc.

And new content doesn't require a geographical expansion to the game world. Yes, new instances specific to the expansion could be added along with the usual new skill, profession and so forth. Ensuring the usual hooks are in place to encourage people to buy new chapters doesn't require ANet to follow the established pattern completely.

The KEY is to beef up the center of the game world. The next campaign could be an overlay of existing campaigns.

In fact, there could be 2 price ranges: the usual price of expansions for prior campaign owners and a somewhat higher price for the chapter compilation and expanded content for new players. <just an idea>

My point, there are a lot of ways a new expansion could be implemented without creating a whole new area completely separate from the previous chapters.



Expanding the game, attracting new players WHILE retaining and strengthening the existing game.

Heretofore, the outward leaning expansions have served to sap away the vitality of the established game.

Anet at stated before the first Chapter was even released that each chapter for guild wars would be standalone and that you would not need any of the previous chapters to play it.

Your suggestion seems to contradict that, instead to get a real benefit from this chapter you would have to have all the previous chapters as adding stuff to multiple chapters it will be spread and there will only be a little in each continent.

You mention how ever that this is a discusion thread not a signed/notsigned post
(that's hard in these forums, there are certain people who must start a seperate thread for every idea they have)

So I will add what ever I feel needs to be done.

I do not disagree that we need a improved system for selling our items, but going straight to Auction Houses from World of Warcrack, or the Player shop system form AO(in factions you actually have citys to place the shops in) is perhaps not the way to go.

Item posting with a mouseover description (trade channel only of cource) would be a start, reducing spam and improving sellability.

But truly something GW'is would be ideal somethign that is not a direct rip, and specifically something acceciple from the battle isles and normal citys, perhaps you could even pay in baltazarfaction for certain items.

Also I have a contradicting wish.
First I would not want more heroes in the new expantion, they have dealt a vicious blow to the social play in GW with their appereance, the next expantion should lessen the pain not enchance the effect.
Also there should definatly be found a way to get players to team with other players in PvE more.
The master reward in chanta mission relies on speed which seems to be a way for players to prefere real people over heroes.
Perhaps larger teams 10-12 meant for splitting up the teams during the mission, would asside from a nice gimic also be a good way to get players to coöperate again.

The above is contradicting with that I want Heroes on which I can change more(Heroes are bad, I just don't want to be good)
Each skill in GW has a hidden description for NPC's of when to use it.
This affects both mobs, henchmen and heroes.
There are certain skills you will block or not put in a their skill bar at all, because you just don't agree with this use-discription.

My Olias for instance insists on using well of power when there is only 1 foe of a group left or when they are all dead, it is utterly useless when used that way, its a static effect when the party will move on soon it should not be cast, rangers and ritualists don't summon their spirts after battle do they? It should be used during the battle, which thank fully he does too, he however also wastes energy on recasting it when the effect has not yet worn off from the last time he cast it.
The use-discription I think includes corpse controll, I do not want him to use the skill for that I have skills for corpse controll on my own character.

Because of the amount of skills, there are a sisable amount of factors to work with in the use-descriptions.
I suggest that players are allowed to chance the use descriptions for their hero's skills(for each skill on a hero individually).
The minimalistic aproach would be that similar to the Shift+Click to block you could Alt+Click to modify usage.
And then set check boxes for the functions of the skill.
That way I could uncheck Corpse Controll/Cast when recharged and check do not re-use while in effect and he should use Well of power correctly.

Better would be however you could use sentance structuing scripting(or sentacne building scripting not exactly sure on the name) to defince when a skill should be used.
For those who do not know what sentance structuring scripting is, I'll give a discription.
Its had to make for the dev's but its the easyes form to use for laymen.
A use decription is formed out of a few sentances, you would built them by selecting pieces of centaces from a list, and filling in the gaps manually with primitive values(Integers, Longs, Strings, Doubles).
Use-description for well of power:
Do not use ...
Do not use when, there are less than ..
Do not use when, there are less than _ foes in ...
Do not use when, there are less than 2 foes in ...
Do not use when, there are less than 2 foes in the agro bubble of ...
Do not use when, there are less than 2 foes in the agro bubble of any living party member...

This sentance can be put together in a little over 6 mouse clicks, and is obviously one of many, many variations.
It could be folowed by the sentance parts 'or' & 'and' and then another statement.
This way players could instruct heroes how to function better easily while still giving acurate instructions.

As a side note:
I know of the use descriptions as skill use is not directly linked to the type AI would recognise the skill as.
The dev that made the use-description for the necro skills, got a little over anctious, as necro mobs are the only mobs in GW that actively team spike.
Before this damage tracker was introduced you would at times suddenly die when 3 or more necros where around and go "WTF?!"
Now you suddenly die and see in the damage tracker vile touch X5.
It started happenign after the AI update in hte first month after Factions was released and I think it is still in function.
Although annoying at times it is actually fun to have some diference in the AI where a certain type of mob is smarter than others.(though scarabs being smarter than humand elementlists is kinda wierd too)
It does not happen all the time, there is a whole bunch of conditions that have to be for filled before they attempt a team spike, but it happens every once in a while, always at times you didn't see it comming ofcource.

Also the new FFXII has a gambit system to mange your companions, that is not unlike the sentance structuring scripting, exept you have to unlock each sentance part, which for GW would only lead to annoyance I think.

no races pls

The gist of the whole topic thread isn't about adding playable new races to Guild Wars, but I do find the clichéd hangups about adding playable races to Guild Wars to be somewhat psychotic.

Really, I'll need it explained to me, because I don't get the opposition.

The issue at hand is about avoiding any further watering down of the playerbase.

The game is already suffering a social problem and has a lot of issues regarding player interaction, another expansion that exacerbates this problem is something to be avoided.

Creating a "gold rush event" with every new expansion and making ghost towns of previous chapters is not a sustainable plan. It needs to be modified and unified.

Sustainable development.

Other games have a far less ambitious schedule for releasing major expansions, ANet obviously has to make money and the expansions are its life's blood.

BUT this raises the challenge of keeping the game from becoming too fragmented.

The next expansion should strive to bolster the currently released content and address some of the issues that the game is accumulating.

So, I suggest that a rethinking of the ANet strategy is reasonable, the 4th chapter could be a "breather" opportunity, a chance to consolidate and perhaps even redefine some of the areas that are fast becoming the Achilles heels of the game design.

Guild Wars must introduce more character development and roleplaying to keep the player base that sustains its business model floating.

If they included playable races - that would be good.

There must also be a reason to play your character beyond the end game.

From some of the Beta tests I've been involved in playing, the introduction of harvesting resources and crafting would be a geat addition to Guild Wars. It gives players more option for roleplaying and character development along different paths.

The completion of all quests, Protector, and GMC of a campaign pretty much sums up the end of the desire to play further in that campaign. The "Hard Mode" still to come is simply a band aid fix that will have those that completed the campaign a tiny bit more to do.

*****SPOILER*****



The Hard Mode should have new outposts that you can only access if you have Protector, and the missions and bonuses must continue the lore that has been developed. There is not much sense to redo D'Alessio Seaboard with more difficult mobs, if our character already knows that the White Mantle are the enemy due to the misdirection of the Lich, and are therefore doing the right thing by trying to stop Abaddon's manipulation of the Lich.

I agree, increasing the number of hero's per person would make this worse. But I dont THINK simply adding more hero's to our available selection would make the PuG issue worse. Hero's are a great way to add some depth to the story.

I agree completly. A deeper story with more character development is needed.

Interesting idea. Here is a slight change to it. Have "Hard mode" use the same outposts but change the story/goal. This would minimize the development time (no new art) but add endgame content and depen the lore or add closure to some dangling plot threads (e.g. the fate of the Charr).

You got the idea with your ideas.

I believe that there would be a way to create a new expansion that is standalone but also focuses on the one or all of the existing campaigns. (preferably all)

I brought up new playable races as being a relatively easy way to do this...one new race per campaign. But, obviously there would have to be much more content than just new races.

I am as "contradictory" as you are concerning Heroes. On one hand, I'd love to see them expanded (more allowed in party, better control, etc.) but I also view them as detrimental to the game community. I am bothered that Guild Wars has become a solo game for me and yes, I choose to use Heroes. Of course, we all "choose" to use automobiles even while we acknowledge the negative impact they have on our environment. But, sincethe "creator" of the world didn't introduce the internal combustion engine, the analogy falls a little flat.

I feel that ANet may have to introduce an incentive system for playing with real players, perhaps by increasing % of gold, loot, faction or XP when teamed with other players.

The challenge for Guild Wars, in my opinion, is to improve the social interaction between players and add more layers of interest for each player with his character. The natural opportunity to accomplish that is with an expansion, but the challenge is to release an expansion that doesn't add to the problems of a fragmented player base and a tendency for solo play.

First of all, I'd like to thank Kuldebar Valiturus for his insightful posts.

I think it's really interesting how Guild Wars (a revolutionary type of game) has created its own unique problem. How can we keep an expanding world from the "hollow" effect that the op is talking about. I mean, think about Factions as it is now, then add a hypothetical fourth and fifth campaign . . . and then imagine how empty it will be!

Personally, I think that the OP is right, the game needs more unity.

I say "needs" because, like the OP, I feel like A-Net can't keep this pace up in a realistic, or responsible manner. How can they keep coming up with new content? New professions? New skills? I mean, it's amazing how far they've gone for so long already, but really, instead of spreading out the campaigns and the originality, A-Net has to unify the game in order to keep an incentive to sell older, previous campaigns. The game won't survive if they don't, and that's an economic incentive in itself.

I would change:
1. The hero system should only be allowed in districts where the population count is lower than X amount of players. If more than X amount of players are available, then only one hero may be carried per person. The number obviously would have to be worked out by A-Net.

2. Make the next campaign dungeon heavy, with a heavy focus on new items and teamwork rather than new professions.

3. Make "underwater" or "air" cities that will connect the three campaigns.

Races: I agree that new races would be good. I'd love to be a Margonite. They're so glowy. But then you'd have to change a few story points because some things wouldn't make sense for races like Centaur or Charr. I'd like add in the Tengu to the list of possible races.

Professions: No new professions!! What we need are new attributes with skills to go with them. To be fair, the new attribute would only be availble to to primaries. Example, Rangers could have something like Reconnaisance, which would allow their aggro bubble to shrink a bit for every 3 AP and its skills would involve a combination of traps and preparations.

Standalone Model: It works ok. Though I think gameplay suffers because you only have 6 months for decent PuGs and general player togetherness before the current campaign is abandoned for the next.

PvP: ANet needs to come up with something new thats actually good enough to interest even the most hardened PvP veteran. PvP is the blood of GW, without which PvE would die due to player burnout.

PvE: I also agree that we need to use some more of the map we already have. I'd love for the storyline to center around Orr and the Gods in general. The lack of info on Chp.4 has fueled alot of similar speculation. Also, I wanna know what the glowing treasure chest in Kaineng is for. Its been bothering me for months. Maybe Gwen will pop out of it!

Okay, here's what I think.

Races are a bad idea, not simply because WoW has them (though this is a pretty good reason) but because if I play a game where I can choose a race, I want the storyline to have race-specific content. I don't want to choose a race just to be part of that race. I think that's ridiculous. Think about it from a GW point of view. All the races have some sort of conflict between other races. If they were to add a centaur playable race, I would want it so that centaurs start in a different area, have a completely different storyline, and aren't allowed in to human outposts and cities until they have done something truly amazing to set aside the grudges. I don't see a charr ever being allowed into a human outpost, or vice versa. If you have 3 or 4 different races, that's a lot of new content that I feel would be needed to make a feature such as this worth it. I just don't see Anet wanting to put that much work into adding something that isn't needed.

Also, I would be extremely disappointed if there were less heroes in the next chapter. I love heroes. I prefer to play PvE by myself, because I explore and collect treasure and all that sort of thing. I also prefer to not be playing with strangers, since I don't know them and can't have much interaction with them. I still chat to my guild and my friends, I just play mostly by myself. I think the thought that heroes have taken out the social aspect of the game is ridiculous. If people want to play with other people, play with other people for God's sake. Don't complain about the cool feature that some players do like a lot. Anyway, how much socialising can you really do when you're fighting through waves of enemies during a mission? I have never been in a party that said more than a few words. Maybe I've just been unlucky.

I think that trying to force players to play with other people would really isolate those of us who prefer to only play with friends or with heroes. Like I said above, there are those players that like playing with people, and those that don't.

Also, I would probably stop playing the game, or at least never play the particular campaign, that is dungeon-heavy. I despise dungeons. It's the main reason I only play most D&D RPGs once. I've never even made it past the second chapter in Icewind Dale (as an example). There's just too many dungeons. I understand that a lot of people enjoy making their way through dungeons, but there are also a lot of people who hate them. I just think dungeons are boring. There's nothing new about them, no amazing aesthetics to the scenery. It's all just rock walls and a few slimey monsters.

And probably my final argument. Never recycle areas. It's lame, and looks lazy. The next chapter should be new and exciting, not a story in the same areas as the previous campaigns. However, the suggestion that Orr features, or some other area we have heard about but never seen, wouldn't be too bad. But we need a new continent to explore. I enjoy exploring and seeing all the sights.

Well, that's just my input. Feel free to flame my opinions, or call me antisocial for only wanting to play with friends, or whatever the usual proceedure is in these matters. I've said my piece, and you can agree or tear it down at your own leisure.

I also believe a new continent is something we need for the next campain altho adding more content to the existing games would also be something i would definetly like to see. There are a lot of areas on each continent that cannot be explored and the developpers could add content in those place. For instance, i would like to see a follow up after the last titan quest mostly about what's happening with ascalon and the charr. Basically, the continent would be the same but the areas would be different meaning that those owning only 1 of the 2 campains taking place on the same continent would have access to only the part the campaing allows him to play with the possible exceptions of towns like LA, Kamadan and Kaineng.

Something to incite players to join together too would be fun altho like Meat axe said, it would be important not to make it a pain for ppl who prefer to play with heroes/henchies or friends. I dunno, maybe split the districts between ppl who want to play with only humans and the rest who want to play with half human/half hench parties or just full heroes/hench parties.

I also agree that dungeons shouldnt be a big part of the game but there should be a few for ppl who like dungeons and like to farm too. I'd like to see new races but then again, adding races to or from previous campains would be contradictory to the storylines, with the possible exception of tengus in cantha so its not a big deal if there are no new races.

Lastly, i agree that new professions would be a pain, i curently have 10 chars, 1 for each profession and i gave up doing every campain with each one of them because its taking too much time. So yeah doing something new with the professions they already have would be nice.

It is an intersting idea.. and some points are pretty good, and would certaionly be doable. However, there are some stuff I don't agree on too.

it would be somewhat alright to re-use the exisiting, but not to all extend. For one, people want new stuff, and seeing the old world again isn't all that appealing. Also there are still need of seperation, as not all people will have both campaign (which would still lead to some degree of player-spread).

I would say just allow a limited cross between whats new and old, allow them one of few place where they could meet.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...52#post2325552

Also a Universal PvE Island (proposed by Lyra Smash) would be something along that line too.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10075967

------------------------------------------

For race, I do think there are several way to do it, and a good way to "refresh" the game.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...5&postcount=28

Still uncertain what way is the best.. but I would gun for a new 6 core profession with the new race....

(and sorry for the use of link... but it save me time to retype my thoughts again...)

races would be cool, the thing i really dont like about the 2nd and 3rd campaigns is the storyline and how you have to complete the missions to proceed. what they should do is release all three games together, get rid of the storyline and just pop in a leet boss at the end of each mission

Hahahah you're joking, right? The only reason I (and I'm sure many others) play GW is because of the storyline. I don't want some game that you just run around doing quests, like a lot of other online games.

Original post is an excellent suggestion.

Although I fear, not the least bit realistic and hence would never actually happen in real life.

What the 4th campaign need to do is not be released.

Well, by creating unique and new content within the boundaries of the older campaigns, ANet could replenish the over all game for the good of all players, new or old.

The 4th Chapter would first and foremost be a compilation of all 3 previous campaigns. For business purposes, ANet would need to sell the compilation at a somewhat higher price. The compilation would include the new content of some kind and a significant amount of it.

For owners of one or more of the previous campaigns, a normal expansion at the regular price range would be offered.

So, both versions and approximate prices:

Compilation + Expansion #4 ($64.95)

Expansion #4 ($49.95)

Notes/ideas about the expansion:

-It requires one or more of the previous chapters.

-The storyline and content of the new expansion will "hook" directly into each campaign.

-If a new playable race (human or otherwise) are involved each campaign will have one. (Imagine: playing a race of sentient gargoyles that live many levels deep within the Catacombs in Pre-Sear until you are forced into the light of day as the Catacombs collapse around you....example )

-Nearly all the Outposts of previous chapters would be used so player populations aren't impacted nearly as much, there would be new instanced areas, of course.


And, notes/ideas about the compilation:

-The compilation would "boot-strap" new players into the Guild Wars Universe.

-Although somewhat more expensive than a single chapter, the compilation would be a great value for people that want to dive into the game along with the new content..

-Owners of one or more of the prior Campaigns would just need the expansion, of course the expansion would only unlock content in the campaign(s) they own but it would still be a full scale expansion.

Any way, there it is roughly laid out. I don't think it's necessarily undo-able or unrealistic, although I will admit I don't know the accounting figures of the business side of it.

The POINT: I think there is a way that new content can be folded into the old and still keep true with the business model, gain new customers, strengthen the existing player base and revitalize the older campaigns.

Otherwise, every new campaign will continue to pound nails into the coffin of the older campaign(s), and that would be a shame.

Sustainability.

Idea of expansion (mini-chapter) add-on, and not just a entire new chapter, has been around for while. And I do see it as a good direction to go for GW.

I am still uncertain about the compliation as a new chapter. Its good to re-sell it, with some added contents, but feel its tricky to do new chapter out of the 3 old one, especially if is asking for new missions or story. However, I do see a need to go back and improve upon the older chapter (especially ch1) with the new features, like Heros and stuff.

If there were not more places to explore in Chap 4 I wouldn't even buy it.

I am not going to pay $50 so I can have an auction house, new races, new skills , and a bunch of other stuff.

I want a new land to play on that would be a Stand alone or and expansion.

If it were and expansion it could add to the map of proph, factions, nightfall and make the map bigger instead of making a whole new land and then the expansion would be for LVL 20s to go to and it wouldn't have any new races would be ok with me but without land I wouldn't want it.

/notsigned

You miss the point.

There would be new content and new areas/dungeons but these things would be based out of the existing campaigns or in adjacent map areas.

This serves the purpose of improving player population density and creates a better crossroads for all players regardless of the campaign they own.

Hey just don't get rid of the Wurms...they are fun as hell...

I agree with Ghost900 on this one. We need another continent. Exploring all the new areas is one of my favourite things to do in the game. Even if it were new areas in one of the old continents it wouldn't be as good, because each continent has a different setting, and the new areas would be the same as the rest of the continent that they are on.

Also, new areas on old continents would completely screw up the cartographer titles. I think a lot of players would be pissed off if they bought chapter 4 and found that they didn't have a maxed title anymore.

However, I didn't mind your idea about the gargoyles in prophecies... Nice way to tie them into the plot, but there's one problem. Why would they be allowed into human cities. It's obvious we don't like them, since we go and kill them for the slightly better collector armour.

I think I've made it clear that I don't care for the idea of having races. If it's done well, then sure, I'm all for it. But new races as an aesthetics thing I just think is pointless, and wasting time that I feel the team could be using to improve other aspects of the next campaign.

Why are so many people against any idea which would actually make guild wars deeper or help to improve guild wars overall, Yes anet Have a certain buisness model they are following, but people have the right to question whether it is the right one.

I Made a thread long ago, which talked about anets approach to making each chapter stand alone and possibly side effects that could happen in the near future.

Although Anet introuduced heros which solves the problem in some way, people will be spread more thinly with each new chapter introduced, and the game will feel less and less like a multiplayer game due to this.

Plenty of wasted pertential that could of been worked on, such as allaince battles, and the luxon and kuzerick war, and of course other sub stories.
It feels messy like they start something then draw a line and start again.
PVe should be whole, not cut up into peices.
There Are not enough benefits of merging accounts In guild wars, And I can gurantee you if Anet did add exlusive areas or quests to older chapters released with new chapters it would help to sell the actuall product.

-TO MANY CHAPTER SPECIFC QUESTS, NEXT TO NOTHING IN GLOBAL QUESTS-
Yes we Have chapter specifc quests, But Imagine global quests that require you to go to each chapter and do specific tasks in order to complete the quest. These type of quests could easily be introduced without needing to add exlusive areas, and would encourage people to buy past chapters.

This idea could be called "extras" that come with new chapters when you buy them, this Would help encourage newcomers to buy older chapters.
As it currently stands the only reason people buy older chapters is for the skills, Give us more reasons to own past chapters.


Most of the posters here are against any idea that has any similarity what so ever to WOW, even if it is a idea that would actually help to make guild wars a better game.

-SIDE NOTE
"OMG NO RACES, THATS WOW"
Please state reasons behind your answers instead of using the example above.
People are always Quick to bring wow into the picture, and as much as I dislike the game it still had good ideas.

Maybe instead on creating new races, add only one new profession.

It would be a Shape Shifter. The class would have abilities to shape shift into new forms, and carry a special signet that would allow the class to add new forms.

Upon shifting into the new form, the char will get the skills for that form, including the special monster skill.

The attrubutes could be as followed:

Shift: for every level increases duration of form, and with high lvl allows more advanced forms. (Primary)

Attack: Increased damage for melee type skills or spells

Elemental: Increases damage for elemental or energy damage type skills or spells

Heal: Increases healing for all heal type skills or spells

This profession could solve the race issue, just an idea.

I haven't heard anyone say they don't like exploring new content. No one is against new content. But, if ANet intends to keep expanding their Universe they need to take measures to ensure it doesn't collapse.

We don't need a new continent to have new explorable areas. The game is instanced when you leave an Outposts, the possibilities are endless. All ANet has to do is find a good way to fit it into the existing and established Game World. From a creative stand point, it's not an insurmountable obstacle.

By tying in new content to the "older" areas we get players crossing paths again and in larger numbers.

Concerning Cartographer Titles that would be impacted, it's a non issue. Any expansion's explorable map would have its own designated title.


CONCERNING RACES:

I raised them as a possibility...a fairly obvious one. As a way to get the new content of a new expansion into the "older" campaign areas.

Because the jury is most definitely still out on whether adding new races WOULD be an improvement to Guild Wars.

Balance-wise, chances are that if a new race was to be introduced, it would have identical abilities to humans anyway. In fact, we've seen this with Talon and Zhed: neither have any particular advantages over a human hero or henchman with the same build. If they were introduced for PCs, it would similarly likely be a purely cosmetic effect - to give them actual differences would, apart from possibly create balance issues, possibly alienate players who have well-estabolished characters that suddenly would have been better as (say) a centaur.

As a purely cosmetic change, races would require a lot of work. In Prophecies alone, introduction of a new race would require six new models (one for each primary class)... and that's assuming the race in question does not have visible gender differences. If they do... that's twelve.

Furthermore, you then have to consider armour sets. Even taking it at a minimum, I'd say that four armour styles per primary is an absolute minimum - giving at least one alternative at both the regular and Ascended levels. Multiplying that by the number of models (above) and you need at least twenty-four new sets of armour. And that's just for one race with no clear gender differences and no access to the chapter-specific classes.

The backdrop of this point is that ANet does not have unlimited resources. The effort that would be going into those thirty-odd models (we're assuming the new race has underwear as well) is, quite simply, effort that's not going into something else. When it comes to new visual options - adding new armour to the existing, human characters is simply more efficient. It may be a smaller difference, but there they can add as many or as few as they feel like, and existing characters don't end up feeling like they've missed out - they can simply pick up the new outfit when it becomes available. It's a little harder to pick up a new race.

On the idea of new storylines for new races: Again, we come to the issue of resource allocation. The effort going into, say, a Centaur-oriented storyline that can probably only be played by a single character out of 10 could just as easily have gone into a normal storyline that can be played by every character on a player's account. Now, that player may or may not choose to actually do so... but it's certainly more replayable when you have more than one or maybe two characters that can access it.

Essentially, what it boils down to is that it seems that the amount of work it would require greatly outweighs the benefit it would provide. The work going into implementing new races could easily go into two or three different things that individually benefit most players more than the new races.

In the case of WoW, it works for two reasons: First, because the races were part of the game from the start and the balancing took that into account, and second, because the relationships between the races is a major part of of the Warcraft storyline. In Guild Wars, this is not the case.

Granted. But we are talking about this in the context of an expansion, so the resources are there for the purpose of an expansion. Again, the idea of adding new races is suggested as a simple way to tie in new content and storyline and explorable areas into older campaign regions. But, not necessary.

The issue at hand is about avoiding any further watering down of the playerbase.

The game is already suffering a social problem and has a lot of issues regarding player interaction, another expansion that exacerbates this problem is something to be avoided.

Creating a "gold rush event" with every new expansion and making ghost towns of previous chapters is not a sustainable plan. It needs to be modified and unified.

Sustainable development.

Perhaps one way of maintaining interaction and interest in previous campaigns when a new one launches would be the implementation of global quests and/or missions. I would see these as being quests or missions that require visiting other campaign locations.

For example, if you’ve got Prophecies and Night Fall then the global quests or missions available to you will be those that only require access to those areas. If you have access to all campaigns then you can access quests or missions that take you from *Insert New Campaign Town Name Here* to Echovald Forrest to the Forrest of the Wailing Lord then on to the Gate of Madness.

These quests could be anything from treasure hunts with arcane clues and riddles that require the input of NPCs or examining the landscape for clues (footprints, Charr graffiti, a broken flute) to slaughtoberfest.

They could require
• taking two elite skills to cope with higher level mobs
• pacifism and stealth
• well coordinated activities requiring a number human players and syncronised actions
• completion over a number of days
• shepherding lower level players to a safe area (imagine: LF low lvl noobs for mish and bnus!!1!)

In essence quests that are larger in scope and reward than what we currently have.

I wouldn’t mind seeing more of a random element in global quests or something else that means relying on a guide isn’t the solution. I don’t know how this would be implemented, but I believe it would add greatly to the challenge of the game. As always, people who want to rush will find the answers before they even start, but those people have no right to complain about missions being insipid and unchallenging.

Global quests and missions could have a separate title track, be associated with hard mode or excluded from counting towards any title – this might keep all the ‘Protectors’ happy. The rewards could actually be rewarding. How about 5 Signets of Capture, a mapping quest that gives you +3% to add to your selected cartographer title (or to a future one), access to a special pet, a chance to dye all of your armour any colour you want for free, unlock a service for your guild hall, an armour upgrade for one of your heroes, a special mod-able collector weapon or item, a mini pet jackpot to swap one for a random one and so on and so forth. These are just a few ideas and I’m sure others can come up with better ones. I wouldn’t envisage the quests being repeatable to avoid them being farmed.

Perhaps this would have the benefit of;
• encouraging players to own all campaigns;
• reinvigorating some of the outposts (albeit sporadically);
• advancing and broadening the storyline;
• allowing smaller updates to be made between major releases;

The implementation of global missions and quests would not solve the problem of empty continents after every new release, but it could breathe a bit of life into ghost towns and spark some further interest in those quiet areas from those of us who have played since release. It could be implemented as part of a new release or utilised as a bridge between releases. I’ve done a few searches to see if anyone else has mentioned this and either I haven’t searched the right terms or the search is fritzed. Anyway – my first post, be gentle.

I would like to see more interaction with gods. Like you can choose your deity and earn his/her favor (points) which you can spend at altar for blessings (maybe time dependent). Till now I have not seen any of gods (except in Nightfall of course) where they are helping or punishing me. It would be nice to implement this. It will bring more atmosphere and "realism" into game. Maybe you can gain ranks in serving to them ... Earn god/prof specific skills ... Maybe even some punishing from god when you anger him.

-monsters having 2 professions
-more high-end area's. ATM there's only one in each chapter
-get rid of hero's, this is supposed to be an MMO, not a singleplayergame
-an explorable area (not the whole map) which is fully interactive (a bit like WoW).
-a good storyline
-a complete skillrevision. Only 20% is useable atm which is both bad for pvp and pve.
-more huge monsters
-8v8 in Heroes Ascent
-less noobs (just kiddin )

And alienate the majority of thier player base.

GOOD IDEA!!!

You do realise that the reason they released heros in the first place was that the majority of people played solo with Henchies.
Making people join with others would just irritate those people.

As much as I like playing with my Heroes I do believe they are hurting the game and limiting it's future and potential. But, irregardless of whether Heroes stay, go or become somewhat reduced in scope, I think ANet needs to strengthen the backbone of their game in ways similar to what I and others have suggested.

My feeling is that Heroes could stay exactly as they are now but ANet could introduce bonuses of some type that would encourage people to play together.

If everyone goes to a dance party and no one dances or talks to each other it will get boring fast and most likely end early, so encouraging <not forcing> people to dance isn't a bad move.

If it was only Heroes it would be probably alright, but we also have the expanding universe effect diluting the player base. my "advice" such as it is, is to revitalize the population centers while still expanding the game.

I appreciate your thoughts. I think you have given alot of thought on this, and I too have considered how ANet might stray from the norm. But, the thing you have to ask yourself is this: Does Anet think another chapter will dilute their product/playerbase?
I would suggest that ANet is not as concerned about diluting their player base as much as other MMO's might. I would think this would have been thought thru by them with the introduction of heros. Because ANets world is kind of the reverse of the MMO industry(the towns are populated- the world is instanced), one could argue that any change that might dilute the player base could be substantial.
I agree with you to this extent; I would go for more story, more new mechanics (read auction house, etc) and less new world for the next chapter, but, in the end, they're going to have to keep growing their world to succeed.
I do support the idea of some type of reward while teamed with actual players. I think this is how ANet needs to approach the next few chapters. People will always respond better to the carrot instead of the stick.

-AN