With some recent changes (and some not so recent ones) I was curious to see how well Bow Attacks compared with one another. To be perfectly honest, I wanted to see how well they were balanced. This thread will probally have more relivance to PvE, but feel free to throw in a PvP perspective. Also feel free to test, theorize, and check my numbers. I don't claim 100% accuracy on anything.
For the sake of simplicity, lets assume 13 Expertise and 16 Marksmanship. You'll also note that I've left out the Elite Attack skills, interrupts, needling shot, and splinter shot. Personally I feel that there is at least a reason to consider any of the elite attack skills, and while some are obviously better than others, it's not a stretch to find a niche for any of them. Needling Shot has a very specific purpose, and will be left out as there is nothing to compare it to. Likewise Splinter shot (which is a horrible skill imho) will be left out as it's function doesn't really compare favorably with anything.
To set a benchmark, I decided to use Power Shot. Why? Because it's a straight damage skill, with no negative secondary effect and no positive secondary effect. You'll see why this is important in a second.
[skill]Power Shot[/skill]
This skill has long been criticized. It's been said that other skills deal more damage, or otherwise have better effects for less of an investment. As it's the benchmark, there's not much to say about it at this point.
[skill]Point Blank Shot[/skill]
Right off the bat, this skill is crippled because it's in the Expertise line. It deals -3 damage compared to P.Shot, recharges 3 seconds faster. Other than that, there is no reason at all to bring this skill over others in the marks line.
[skill]Arcing Shot[/skill]
I'll admit I never gave this skill a second look. But it deals the same amount of damage as P.Shot, for less energy and is unblockable. Since evade is no longer an issue, this skill recieved a sizable buff. While the arch is an issue, it should still be quite worthwhile on a shortbow build. (Curious to see if the arch is affected by RtW... Anyone tried that?)
[skill]Crossfire[/skill]
At a two second quicker recharge, and half the energy, you only lose five damage. It ALSO has the added effect of being unblockable if your target is near an ally.
[skill]Focused Shot[/skill]
Deals damage equal with P.Shot, for half the energy and with a quick 2 second recharge. The negative makes it very hard to find a spot for this skill however... as it doesn't sync very well with interrupts.
[skill]Hunter's Shot[/skill]
-10 direct damage compared to P.Shot, with the added damage of bleeding. But honestly, the condition is somewhat hard to meet, and foes rarely outlive the duration of the condition. So you have a subpar damage skill, with a secondary condition of varing usefulness. If you had one spot and needed both a spam attack and a cover condition.. then it's actually a pretty good skill. But for use in one function or the other, you're probally better off finding something else.
[skill]Keen Arrow[/skill]
This skill suprised me. I hadn't looked at it twice. Criticals occur about every fifth shot at 16 marks. Which means that you'll be dealing ~+24 damage with this skill. When it does trigger, it means a huge damage bonus against a single target. Regardless of when it happens, the average damage alone is enough to consider this skill.
[skill]Marauder's Shot[/skill]
+11 damage over powershot! It does disable non-attack skills, but if you prepare in advance, that really doesn't have to be that much of a disadvantage. This is the best straight shot/damage w/no frill skill a ranger has (if you don't consider energy cost).
[skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill]
When you consider the 20%AP only gives you ~+4-6 damage. +24 damage doesn't even compare to P.Shot in a single shot, but you will be able to use this skill twice as often due to a very short recharge.
[skill]Screaming Shot[/skill]
Deals the same amount of direct damage as P.Shot, and applies bleeding with an easy to meet condition. Slightly longer recharge. Still, it's a very damaging skill.
[skill]Precision Shot[/skill]
Same amount of damage as P.Shot, same energy, unblockable. Easily Interrupted? Doesn't compare well with like skills...
Skills that stand out:
Arcing Shot
Crossfire
Keen Arrow
Screaming Shot
Maurader's Shot
Skills that fall FAR behind:
Power Shot
Point Blank Shot
Precision Shot
Skills that aren't terrible but aren't brilliant either:
Focused Shot
Penetrating Shot
Hunter's Shot
Ranger Bow Attack Skill Discussion
SnipiousMax
malko050987
I solo (or go with henchmen and order them to a location) a lot, and I found Hunter's Shot to be better than Power Shot. If you keep your fighters leashed, you can draw the attention of the enemy, hit a bunch of them while they're running at/after you, and then target the healers, if there are any.
To be a bit more precise:
Make a party of henchmen or men who will agree to your plan. Get a long-distance caster or archer to draw the attention of a group of enemies. While they're running towards you, the ranger(s) hit them with HS, causing the Bleeding. With a decent Marksmanship (I've got 16, but that's too much) you can get a significant amount of damage in, especially if there are no healers or if you keep them busy.
Power Shot is kinda useless, compared to HS.
Oh, and I'm not certain, but I think that I have more than +16 damage in HS. I'll update later, when I've had a chance to sign on.
Chris
To be a bit more precise:
Make a party of henchmen or men who will agree to your plan. Get a long-distance caster or archer to draw the attention of a group of enemies. While they're running towards you, the ranger(s) hit them with HS, causing the Bleeding. With a decent Marksmanship (I've got 16, but that's too much) you can get a significant amount of damage in, especially if there are no healers or if you keep them busy.
Power Shot is kinda useless, compared to HS.
Oh, and I'm not certain, but I think that I have more than +16 damage in HS. I'll update later, when I've had a chance to sign on.
Chris
Evilsod
I don't see why you picked Penetrating Shot to stand out above Marauders? As good as expertise is at allowing you to spam attack skills more, if your interrupting and using your other skills, spamming Penetrating over a single high powered attack if probably better. Especially as if you needed a spammable attack skill, you'd be far better off choosing Crossfire.
How would you rate Forked Arrow against Dual Shot? Been hexed or enchanted is fairly easy in some places and the damage drop from Dual Shot isn't all that much of a problem when the only reason you use either is because of the secondary effects of your Prep or Orders. Note, Orders would screw up Forked.
How would you rate Forked Arrow against Dual Shot? Been hexed or enchanted is fairly easy in some places and the damage drop from Dual Shot isn't all that much of a problem when the only reason you use either is because of the secondary effects of your Prep or Orders. Note, Orders would screw up Forked.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Evilsod
How would you rate Forked Arrow against Dual Shot? Been hexed or enchanted is fairly easy in some places and the damage drop from Dual Shot isn't all that much of a problem when the only reason you use either is because of the secondary effects of your Prep or Orders. Note, Orders would screw up Forked.
I think Forked Arrow is next to worthless. Regardless of what is going on in the area you are in... using FOrked means you can't consistantly use Orders or the protection line in your team. I don't think the slight increase in damage warrants it. It should be changed to hexed only.
Dutch Masterr
MARAUDER'S SHOT FTW...
every single build i run includes marauders shot...its just so great. on 60-70 armored targets, i hit for over 100 damage about every other shot. i like it in quickshot builds as a strong opener. power shot i never really saw much of a use for, kind of like power attack in the warrior line. as for sundering/penetrating attack, i might do some testing with judge's insight.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
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Hmm, thats a point i guess. But in terms of Ranger Spike... which i generally ran while doing PvE in Nightfall, it usuallys leads to 1 dead enemy.
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I think Forked Arrow is next to worthless. Regardless of what is going on in the area you are in... using FOrked means you can't consistantly use Orders or the protection line in your team. I don't think the slight increase in damage warrants it. It should be changed to hexed only.
I'd have to agree. It can be used with Orders... giving it a leg up on Dual Shot with the higher damage, but could be just as easily shut down.
Cathode_Reborn
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
[skill]Hunter's Shot[/skill] -10 direct damage compared to P.Shot, with the added damage of bleeding. But honestly, the condition is somewhat hard to meet, and foes rarely outlive the duration of the condition. So you have a subpar damage skill, with a secondary condition of varing usefulness. [skill]Penetrating Attack[/skill] When you consider the 20%AP only gives you ~+4-6 damage. +24 damage doesn't even compare to P.Shot in a single shot, but you will be able to use this skill twice as often due to a very short recharge. Whoooa now, hold up here.....20%AP = 4-6 dmg? If you actually used the skill, you'd know that this attack could actually hit for about 35+dmg. Hunter's shot: Hitting a moving target is a hard condition to meet? I use the skill all the time and I happen to enjoy makin people bleed easily for 5 energy.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn
If you actually used the skill, you'd know that this attack could actually hit for about 35+dmg. |
Let's assume a 80 AC target (the average).
(21.5 Raw Damage +19 bonus damage) x 2 ^ (68 - (80(1-.2)/40)) = 43.41
21.5 Raw Damage x 2^((68-80)/40) = 17.46
43.41 - 17.46 = +25.95 damage from using Penetrating shot
Where as if you had used Crossfire you'd have
17.46+ 21 = 38.46
43.41 - 38.46 = ~5 extra damage for double the energy to use Penetrating Attack
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn
Hunter's shot: Hitting a moving target is a hard condition to meet? I use the skill all the time and I happen to enjoy makin people bleed easily for 5 energy.
Compared to screaming shot, yes hitting a moving target is hard. It is certainly not a sure thing like Screaming is. For 2-3 more energy you can get +10 damage and an easier-to-meet condition. It's not that Hunter's Shot was always a bad skill. It just can't compare with screaming shot.
Amy Awien
Screaming's condition is less desirable and harder to check then that of Hunter's, but both would outdamage any other skills, when the bleeding is applied and not removed.
If one get's >100 damage froma single attack, against a normal (60+AL) target then that is because of a critical hit (~60 damage) and one does not get those every other shot. Marauders adds 37 damage @16 marks, no more, no less and it does not increase the chance to score a critical.
Cathode_Reborn
Went and did some quick tests...
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
16 marksman + Read the Wind + "Go for the eyes" to get more crit hits (make the testing easier) + Infuriating Heat just to charge up "GftE" faster =p 15^50 customized bow... Against the, 60al target, my crits hit for 73 dmg. Penetrating Attack boosts it upto 106 dmg. Against the 80al target, my crits hit for 54 dmg. Penetrating Attack boost it upto 88 dmg. Against the 100al target, my crits hit for 41 dmg. Penetrating Attack boost it upto 73 dmg. Penetrating Attack > Power Shot. Even Keen arrow is probably a better choice than Power Shot. It's only 5 less dmg but the conditional dmg is huge, and the skill is also 5 less energy. Power Shot is just a useless skill, and became even more useless with Penetrating Attack's copy. Quote: Compared to screaming shot, yes hitting a moving target is hard. It is certainly not a sure thing like Screaming is. For 2-3 more energy you can get +10 damage and an easier-to-meet condition. It's not that Hunter's Shot was always a bad skill. It just can't compare with screaming shot.
They can easily compare. Both are used for the bleeding effect. In pve, I wouldn't use either cause bleeding takes abit of time for it to actually take away a large part of the target's health.
In pvp, people do move around alot. Hunter's Shot has a quicker recharge, and is 5 less energy. Hunter's shot isn't a hard condition to meet, but it's easier to make a target bleed with Screaming. If the bleeding from Screaming gets removed, you have to use another 10 energy to reapply it. Obviously none is better than the other, but I'm just showing that they can compare. I know plenty of people who claim Screaming Shot is now the better choice, but I've also seen a few people actually use Screaming shot thinking they were within earshot, and failed to make me bleed. It's also not always a good idea to get a little closer to your target just to make em bleed.
MisterB
Just a note: Screaming Shot will always cause Bleeding when fired from a shortbow. That is a condition that you can always control, while Hunter's Shot is a condition that depends on your enemy. I have to second Snipious's comparison based on that, and the increase in damage versus Hunter's shot is also a consideration. Leaving Bleeding aside, there are better 5 energy spam skills now available, and Snipious's list points them out. Keen Arrow, for example, is just obscene(and fun) with "Go for the Eyes" on your team. Great analysis, thank you.
Jetdoc
I personally am in love with Screaming Shot when combined with Burning Arrow. Two arrow attacks that create instaneous -10 degen = heaven.
XvArchonvX
Overall, this is a very good analysis of attack skills.
I did do some testing with Arcing shot and found out some surprising results: RtW and FW do not affect Arcing Shot. However Arcing Shot does not really have a very large arc to the shot. If you actually use it with a flat bow and have no prep it will shoot faster than a normal arrow. The arrow speed and arc of Arcing Shot is the same for all bows and shoots with the same arc of a normal Longbow arrow and at a slightly slower speed. I really expected to see something like a Broadhead Arrow shot, but after seeing how minor the speed decrease really is, I think this skill will be in my bar a bit more often now. Also, I didn't see [skill]determined shot[/skill] listed. I actually have been curious as to if anyone has ever tried running a trapper build with Signet of Midnight and Determined Shot. I'm not sure if it would work, but in theory it seems like it could recharge traps every 10 seconds. *EDIT* just tried this out and realized that it only works on attack skills, which doesn't include traps. However, this does include pet attack skills. I doubt this could translate into any great strategy, but it was an interesting thing to learn, lol. As for the overall analysis, I agree with most of what is said, but I think that Hunter's Shot deserves to be in the mediocre category. It is admittedly more of a PvP suited skill since moving foes are a bit less frequent in PvE, but since enemy scatter from AoE in PvE does make the condition a bit easier to meet. I won't argue that it's a great skill, but in an Apply Build, where a 15 energy prep can make a build a bit e-heavy, Hunter's isn't a bad choice since it gives bleeding at 5 energy.
Cathode_Reborn
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
Also, I didn't see [skill]determined shot[/skill] listed. I actually have been curious as to if anyone has ever tried running a trapper build with Signet of Midnight and Determined Shot. I'm not sure if it would work, but in theory it seems like it could recharge traps every 10 seconds.
You use it with Oath Shot instead. Equip a flatbow when you use Determined to miss purposely and recharge Oath to recharge your traps. Trying to shoot through a wall also recharges your attack skills. Broadhead Arrow is another skill worth using with Determined.
Forked Arrow is also not listed, but a very nice skill. It especially hurts with Punishing Shot.
IAmFlip
Marauder's Shot and Focused Shot are nice with the buffed Glass Arrows. At 13 Expertise, you can do +18 damage with Marauder's Shot's +37 damage at 16 Marksmanship. I have yet to test this out, I just need to cap Glass Arrows. I use the Penetrating/Sundering Attack with Burning to keep high damage while waiting for Burning Arrow to recharge. Mixed with Apply Poison, you have constant penetrating damage with -10 degen.
HalPlantagenet
Thank you Snipious, for your adroit, succinct analysis and to the subsequent posters. Whilst I might disagree with some of your ratings, over all, they are consistent both from my intuition from playing and analysis when I've done it. I rarely take Penetrating Attack, just to pick one skill, unless armor penetration is an issue and it will be used in concert with other armor penetration buffs, such as Judge's Insight.
Which leads me to my reason for posting: context is everything. Keen Arrow is good, but it's phenomenal when one or more Paragons are on the team spamming Go for the Eyes. Some of the skills to which you give poor marks rise in value in specific situations. When one is first playing GW, a terse exegesis of the kind you've given is perfect. Later, multiple skill synergy and leverage become critical. Lists of good builds help to some extent, but I find myself longing for a comprehensive process for constructing builds that takes into account not only a single player's character but all those in a team. Zergway and the B/P groups for the Tombs are trivial examples of the value of this. I can't help but expect much richer (and subtler) combinations are yet to be discovered.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalPlantagenet
Which leads me to my reason for posting: context is everything...Some of the skills to which you give poor marks rise in value in specific situations.
Good Points. And it's true, we can find situational uses for most of the skills, and justify the spot they take up in a skill bar (or amongst a team of skillbars).
The problem lies in the fact that there are still skills that will never measure up to other skills when considering their main function. Hunter's Shot, yes, is a great skill when you have limited space on a skill bar and need both a cover condition for poison and a semi-spamable +damage skill to compliment poison/bleeding damage. But if you have a slot for a condition causing skill... it's not going to compare well with Screaming Shot. If you have a slot for a high spam attack... then it can't possibly compare with something like Crossfire. (but honestly I think I was too harsh on H.Shot...) A bigger problem is seen when a single skill cannot compare to another in ANY situation. Two examples: Point Blank Shot, and Power Shot. Point Blank Shot, by design, is meant to be a spamable skill. Having both of them on the same bar is a waste, so already we have a redundant useless skill in the clone. Now compare them to other high spam attack skills: Penetrating Attack and Crossfire. Penetrating attack just straight up deals more damage than Point blank shot and has the exact same recharge and same energy cost. As it stands now, in any situation where you could consider Point Blank Shot... Penetrating Attack is better (although the clone means yet another redundant skill). Crossfire, while it deals slightly less damage (condsidering 13 expertise, which is pretty restrictive) and has a higher recharge, costs HALF the energy and has a very good side effect with an easy to meet condition. Crossfire, ultimately, can make a good case against either Point Blank Shot or Penetrating Attack. Powershot. Nothing new. For the SAME amount of energy, you can use Screaming shot and have the added benefit of condition. For the Same amount of energy, Marauder's Shot deals significantly more damage. For half the energy Arching Shot deals the same amount of damage. There is no situation or circumstance that says that Powershot is better than anything at what it was meant to do. I think the problem steams from the lack of diversity amongst the attack skills. Too many skills do the exact same thing as something else... and thus only the one that works best can even be considered. Some Ideas I've had to fix them... Power shot needs to deal damage somewhere between the 26 it deals now, and Marauders Shot. Point Blank Shot (and clone) lessen the recharge to 1-2 seconds and lessen the +damage. That would actually be an interesting skill to use. Alternatively, make Point Blank Shot a 'set cast time' attack. If it was a 1 second shot like Needle or Quick shot with an slightly increased recharge time... there would be a reason to play around with it. Precision Shot... needs to be reworked, since there are other skills that completely blow it away it terms of function (crossfire, arcing Shot). Cutting the cost would be a start. Easily interrupted is just ridiculous for an expensive skill without really any additional benefit. There are others, but this is the geist of what I was trying to point out. Anyway, I went ahead and moved Hunter's into the mediocre list.
Amy Awien
You've touched an interesting point, while playing around with the new Incendiary I found that there is no 1/2 second shot which wasn't already an interrupt. We have two interrupting preps, but nothing to deliver them with
Franco Power
You forgot one of the best Ranger bow attacks, atleast in PvP, useless in PvE obviously
 [skill]Debilitating Shot[/skill] This skill is exceptional good in TA and GvG, Not so used in HA (well rangers aren't used there much anyway except for thumpers  ) because a good monk that knows how to use channeling won't have problems in HA anyway, but in TA and GvG where energy management is harder Debilitating Shot every 10 seconds can cause a problem ^_^. EDIT: But yeah like you said, it doesn't do +xx dmg. Forked Arrow is not that good in my opinion too, it's being used instead of Dual Shot for Ranger Spike at the moment, but wait for 8v8 and Dual shot will see use again, however in PvE, if you don't bring a enchantment yourself and you know there aren't many hexes then I'd take Forked Arrow just for the DPS.
SnipiousMax
^Debilitating Shot serves a very specific and unique purpose... but as you said, it's worthless in PvE, and its not really used as an 'attack skill' even though that's what it says. Same reasoning I didn't include interrupts.
Although on the subject of interrupts... I think they demonstrate how the attack skills should compare. Three direct interrupts (not counting Broad Head) each with different strengths and weaknesses and with very different functions, but with sufficient reasons to use all three.
HalPlantagenet
Apologies for the double post.
HalPlantagenet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy Awien
You've touched an interesting point, while playing around with the new Incendiary I found that there is no 1/2 second shot which wasn't already an interrupt. We have two interrupting preps, but nothing to deliver them with
I presumed that the most effective way to play the new Incendiary Arrows was with a standard attack augmented by an IAS. You're asserting that it would be must more valuable if combined with a low energy cost, high speed attack that wasn't already an interupt? Or have I misunderstood you.
I haven't worked with the augmented Incendiary Arrow yet and would be interested in your evaluation of it in general.
ZennZero
HalPlantagenet,
I *think* he is saying that there is no bow attacks that have interrupt firing time (1/2 sec) that aren't already interrupts. The closet thing is [skill]Quick Shot[/skill] or [skill]Needling Shot[/skill], but their firing time is still twice that. The upside is they don't have the "aftercast" delay. That means you have to hope your target doesn't sneak any short casts in the 1.33-1.5 second gaps between your IAS. A good mesmer, in particular, might be able to avoid being shutdown by IA because of this.
HalPlantagenet
Thanks. The "after-cast" delay in the dedicated interrupt skills is one of the reasons Incendiary Arrows is worth looking at again. I hadn't thought about Needling in this context, thanks.
(For some odd reason, I'm not able to equip both Incendiary and Quickshot together. Must be a bug that prevents me from taking two elites together  )
ZennZero
Oops. Of course you are correct.
I will be curious to see if anyone has success with the IA+Needling combo on-demand interrupt.
SnipiousMax
^What's really fun is the near-constant interruption + Constant burning, once they drop below 50% health.
XvArchonvX
I have to admit, I really do hope to see a bow attack that functions similar to [skill]Protector's Strike[/skill] and [skill]Harrier's Toss[/skill] in the next chapter.
ZennZero
XvArchonvX,
[skill]Hunter's Shot[/skill] is about as close as it gets at the moment and, well -- it's pretty lame.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnipiousMax
^What's really fun is the near-constant interruption + Constant burning, once they drop below 50% health.
I tried it out on THK. Its fun interrupts Plague Touch 5 times in a row.
jesh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn
You use it with Oath Shot instead. Equip a flatbow when you use Determined to miss purposely and recharge Oath to recharge your traps. Trying to shoot through a wall also recharges your attack skills. Broadhead Arrow is another skill worth using with Determined.
Genius. I can't believe I never thought of that.
spun ducky
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesh
Genius. I can't believe I never thought of that.
Pinesouls have been doing that since GW came out and as I like to think of it look at the creatures in pve for basic intended combos of skills.
Master Ketsu
Penetrating attack is a better choice only when your using high damage buffs.
Just using Pen shot raw - crossfire > Pen attck But lets say I used RTW, Brutal weapon, and Favwinds. Suddenly that 20% armor penetration has a lot to divide 20% by, and Pen attk >>>>> crossfire.
SnipiousMax
^Well that would be true but:
The armor penetration only effects the amount of Raw Damage (Base Damage + additional direct damage from attack skill) that gets converted into effective damage, and doesn't include additional damage from damage shifters. What that means is that since RtW, Favorable Winds, Brutal Weapon, ETC are unaffected by armor... armor penetration won't mean jack squat. Even preps that ARE affected by armor, are unaffected by the Armor penetration, because they are dealt as a seperate packet of damage independant of the Base + Skill damage. Even if it WAS affected by AP, and the additional damage from the Prep/buff was your only concern/criteria for choosing the skill, then Dual Shot would be a better choice hands down. While you could spam Pen attack twice as often, you could wield Dual + Savage to a much bigger effect. Penetrating Attack shines when most of the foes you are facing have over 80 Armor. But otherwise, and in a pretty homogenous mix of low and high armored foes, it doesn't preform as well as cheaper more effecient skills do.
Evilsod
You know... i've been assuming that Determined Shot was bugged for ages. When i read the description i thought it meant all your attacks skill recharge... as in are disabled. Guess i was wrong, lol. And its only taken me 18 months to realise it.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilsod
You know... i've been assuming that Determined Shot was bugged for ages. When i read the description i thought it meant all your attacks skill recharge... as in are disabled. Guess i was wrong, lol. And its only taken me 18 months to realise it.
yea, that was one of those skills that took me a loooong time to really have the meaning of the description click in my head. I had never really thought about the Oath Shot + Determined Shot combo until I saw it here on the forums, even though I had seen it used forever with Pine Souls.
SnipiousMax
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anet
Renegade26
Where is that from SnipiousMax?
SnipiousMax
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10118574
Amy Awien
Wah, pet-controls ... finally. You'd have to wonder about them, given the hero and hench control have already been implemented.
Looking at bowskills could mean many things, but I'd hope for some of the weaker skills to get buffed, rather then the stronger ones nerfed.
Evilsod
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
yea, that was one of those skills that took me a loooong time to really have the meaning of the description click in my head. I had never really thought about the Oath Shot + Determined Shot combo until I saw it here on the forums, even though I had seen it used forever with Pine Souls.
Wait? Pinesouls have Oath Shot? :SSure your not talking about Jade Bows? Even if they do have 0 expertise for some completely unknown reason... Something tells me they'll do a bit of both. Nerf some and buff others. In its current form now Evade has been removed Precision Shot is absolutely worthless over Crossfire. Keen Arrow is extremely powerful too... chances are if any get nerfed, Keen will be 1 of them. Whered did you get that info btw Snipious? The homepage? |
