Ok, please don't bash me people!

Having played some MMO's including Guild wars (which isn't defined as a MMO anyway), I've come to the conclusion that the future of Guild Wars is rather weak. Please don't bash me since this is purely a personal opinion. Let me explain why. The reason Guild wars has been (and still is) a success are mainly due to these reasons; the beauty of the game in graphic sense, the well-balanced PvP part, the non-monthly-supscription-free system, stable and reliable networking system and nonetheless the skills which is the heart of the game. These factors have made Guild wars a known game in the Online gaming arena, however these factors alone will not keep the game interesting and immersive in the long run - even new continents and contents are being added for every major update/chapter. The major weak point of GW is the instancesation. This is the part where I in my humble opinion think Guild Wars will loose its stronghold. The future of online gaming is headed towards the openess, being able to travel to everywhere, to meet people on your travel, to fight with people or against them (yes it does sound like wow). The instancesation results in the restrictions that make players will leave Guild Wars in the near future when other games arrive. Why? Because more online games are getting better in graphic, they will look as nice as Guild wars, with efforts and a good implementation the PvP should be as good as in Guild wars, the networking issues will be handed better due to better technology and infrastructure and well-thought skills will also be possible. With these factors in place added with the non-instancesation nature any games could outdo Guild wars by margin - yes even it is a subscription based system.

What im trying to say is that I love Guild Wars, and these are my concerns since I really can't see any future for Guild Wars with the instancesation system. The world of Guild Wars as it is now can remake to be non-instancesation. Of course it will be a challenge but not impossible. A Guild wars without instancesation will k.o. any MMOs out there even WoW.

Many people in here will treat what i just wrote as nonsense and are happy with GW as it is. Yes, Guild wars isn't WoW, it wasn't meant or will be as WoW, but it doesn't mean it should meet it's doom by staying the same and stubborn course. The future is freedom, not instanced.

Non-instantiation, if that's even a real word, is a bad thing because it creates areas where people are constantly ganked, bosses are always surrounded while people attempt to kill them, and groups become meaningless. It would also completely break every game mechanic along with destroying the game balance. GW wouldn't even be close to the same game, it'd just be another WOW clone.

In conclusion, play WOW if you like those sorts of things.

have you ever been ganked?
have you ever had someone 50 levels higher than you take all you have on you and laugh because they can do just that?
have you waited an hour in a line to get a quest?

welcome to your openness i will take instances

this is a new type of game and it seems to be the choice of many people who do not enjoy the *openness* that you and others want.

hopefully that wasnt too much flame

I could equally say that gw is great because of the instanciation. Players are free to go and explore without having to deal with all the losers on the net and all the problems that come from said interactions.

Perhaps you should find a game that suits your playing style and leave gw to the millions of people that love it this way.

Two things drew me to this game: No monthly fee and the instanced gameplay.

my friend i have already debated on this topic about gw on other fourms!

hence I think this why anet and ncsoft are making a bigger up date. I wouldn't be suprised that other compies have taken some of my ideas.


I have talked about the hack and slash to real rpg's and the mmorpg's out there.i have given the reasons why must mmo even wow will fall in the long run. I go as the bomb, balckman on other fourms.

In fact i have notice that the new game vangaurd has some of my ideas like "ships","homes" and "mounts"( i have talk about how this game needs mounts) other things that i have stated on fourms from long ago. I have even seen aion that ncsoft is working on has my ideas in it with climbing too.


even the linar story, i have also debated about! By the way I don't agree that a story needs to be linar by the way.

I also don't agree how charactors being made tanks and damage dealers as well. that kind of setup is bad and lacks freedom.

Maybe to quench some of these non-instanced wanters, Anet could create a 12-24 man area. Think about it, 24 people all ganging up on one boss/mob as a team, but the monsters would be much stronger, so it evens it out. It would be very interesting to see how this would work in the GW universe. Similar to the difficulty or maybe more difficult than DoA. Mobs would drop 3x as more loot so that evens out also. Just maybe an area with more than 8 people, would be pretty cool. Sortof like an all-out war type of thing, 2 armys charging towards eachother, evenly matched. Idk, thats just my take on the topic.

My husband plays WoW, and of all the things I dislike when he talks about it, it's the "I was just clearing out this area when a lvl-questionmark-questionmark Rogue came in, ganked me, and took the quest items I needed!" that I hate the most.

He got ME playing GW simply because he told me it was possible to play completely by myself, I didn't have to interact with weirdo gamer people.*

How can you like everything about GW and not like this feature? The game would not be the game without it.





*yeah, you all are weirdo gamer people... not me, I've only been playing since May 2005, no no, I'm not one of you....

By the way Anet knows and I am sure they are maybe working on stuff. I have proven by facts on different fourm.

AMEN to that Brother, AMEN!

Would you care to show us these facts?

I love the instances, and my husband was thrilled when he started playing and found out about it. It allows you to put together a group that you'd like to adventure with, or hench if you're feeling like just sticking in a quick quest while dinner is cooking and don't want to have to go AFK with a party of people.

Instancing also helps perf if I understand correctly, because there's not a bunch of other people's actions constantly going on, just yours and the stuff around you.

Additionally, instancing helps remove the concept of servers. When everyone's playing in the same space, that's got to be broken up somehow, thus the servers you get in WoW. The reason I didn't pick up WoW was because everyone I knew was on a different server, and it sounded time consuming to play with them all. Plus I'm not big on monthly fees since I'm a pretty casual player. The way that GW is structured is that it's much easier for people to get together with their friends - there are no server bounderies. Even if they're on another country's servers, we have international districts to meet up in. You couldn't do this if not for instancing; the logistics are a nightmare from where I'm standing. With no concept of "servers", how would each "copy" of the world work? How do people get together into the same "copy" (for lack of a better word) to party together? Sure, they could have to choose one, but then again, now you've got a bunch of people running around all affecting the world at once, and you end up again needing to break out into servers all over again. I might be missing something as I'm no network expert, but I think this was part of the point of instancing, to avoid server bounderies that stopped people from playing together.

I won't bash because you're just stating your opinion, but I will say that if GW became a WoW-style game with no instancing and tons of people all running around ganking or whatever else it is they do, GW would lose a lot of it's appeal to me. I like getting a copy of the world that reserved for me and my friends/guildmates/party members/henchmen.

I think the bottom line is that there's different strokes for different folks. :: shrug ::

To the first two responses:

Ganking is an event that only occurs in open-pvp systems, durrrr


Blame the non-creative people playing the game then. It's honestly all your/my/our fault, not ArenaNet's.

Wouldn't work. Bosses in Guild Wars are incredibly lame. Besides, people would just look to exploit things to kill it with only 4 people anyway for better green chances (*sigh*). If GW had a boss format like WoW, where they actually DID something and required strategy to beat, then I could possibly see your idea working, but until then, no. And even then, like I said, people will just try to do it with as few as possible.

Instead, I think they should do the reverse. Tough to do, but try to create areas for only 1 person, and keep it balanced in a way so that every profession is viable for the mission (and thus everybody can complete it.)

sure moving over from WoW is a pain with instances but you get use to it... i know i have after almost 2 years... it definatly doesn't take away from the game... if anything it brings use together because no longer do i have to run to point x to run to port to point be to meet with player B. I can just port us together to do things together. The main reason guild wars life is so short is because of its lvl cap at 20 most games you have to grind up to high lvls 70s or 60s or higher before you make ur next char. In guild wars you can get to lvl 20 on all your chars in a short amount of time.
The main in guild wars is in the pvp... but this aspect of the game is only left open to small percentage of players that excel in pvp. PvE gets old fast sure making money customizing weapons is fun... but in the end it gets old... pvp is renewable but only for so long. All they need to do to win over a major part of guild wars players is to get rid of their old maps of HA and just make new ones... instead of spending weeks on the next elite mission

Okay.. i see where your coming from but these "restricted to party only" are not only a great feature but a reason why this game is free monthly. They dont need to run heavy servers becasue each explorable area is indivdualized, so enemies dont have to reappear after a certain duration.

Possible Downfalls I see are, Lack of attention to the PvE crowd, Lack of difficult areas. No new experiences.
PvE is a huge stablizing factor for recreational players. I consider myself somewhere between PvE and PvP, as do 75% of players. If they do not do minor catering to this area they will overtime loose more customers. PvP has many things to tweak and fix constantly so theres no overbearing issue there since they are 90% PvP and 10% PvE.

Lack of Difficult PvE Areas: To be completely honest I find this game to be a "breeze" of sorts to figure out PvE wise. Reason being, the first 75% of the game is a no brainer, basic hack/slash/nuke/heal. I'd like to see more areas like DoA.

As for New experiences these come per chapter. I really enjoyed the addition to Prophecies (before Factions) with Sorrows Furnace and I'd like to see something along those lines added per chapter. These things shouldnt havent a "acension" requirement but should be difficult enough that a specialized build and players would have to be used.

However, I dont see this game falling through anytime soon. I constantly see new players (actual new ones) and as a seasoned GW player I'm completely satisfied (played since beta).

they are in the gw online fourms. Can't remeber the thread none the less alot people seen and have read them. I am sure anet has too.

I beleave this maybe why we are getting the big updates. anet is looking to make a better gw and to make sure there is more stuff to do in gw.

The OP is correct, I would only add that Guild Wars' "future" is weak only if ANet fails to change some things in the next campaigns.

I have discussed this ad nauseum in my thread topic here.

ANet can start using a more sustainable approach to their campaigns and more importantly stop spreading out their playerbase. Because instanced areas are fundamental to the game, those areas should be placed in adjacent locations to population centers as much as possible.

Additionally, ANet should consider a global explorable area as part of a unique approach to get players together in a PvE scenario.

Instances in Guild Wars have their benefits but they also create a very lonely play experience especially when combined with Heroes and Henchies.

Ganking isn't an issue that should be seriously discussed because that can be controlled by design. I played WoW for 2 years, ganking only occurs in contested and hostile areas...it comes with the territory.

creative I am,thinking out side the box i do very well. The whole idea of having tanks and damage is limiting for charactor setup.

I don't wish to share what i know up on these fourms.

Guild Wars is great if you like instances and balance.

I'm tending to lean to the side of the more traditional world, with ganking, freedom to explore,, mounts, unlimited farming without fear of having the way i play being changed or me being banned...

GW has served me well and i don't regret buying two prophecies accounts, a factions and a NF account.

There is no denying the fact that Guild Wars has filled a niche in the genre and become very successful, but like the OP mentioned, graphics are getting better all the time (Age of Conan for example) and Guild Wars needs to move with the flow, or risk becoming stale bread.
This goes for gameplay too.

As for being "free", lets not start that one again :P

I just disagree. I think Guild Wars has done more than other games to lessen the pigeonholing of character classes. I mean, my MM Necro doesn't need a warrior to "tank" and neither does my ranger.

What truly limits a player character is the game world itself. The Tank, Healer, DPS is the holy trinity of gaming, but it's based on very real concepts. Look at modern warfare and the roles that the machines of war have to play in combat. Hybrids exist, but the same trinity is the core of it.

Your not thinking it out. If ANet designed a 12-24 person instanced area the Bosses and Mobs would be designed accordingly for the challenge.

I am not that keen on raids myself, but it could be relatively easy to add to Guild Wars.

Simply put, the game needs to have some randomness added to it. Re-playability is an issue, the low player interaction is an issue, the lack of semi-useful "filler fluff" <think player crafted items/trade skills> is an issue.

You don't need a PvP system to support ganking in a persistent area. Another reason for instancing is to avoid camping. Imagine if there were almost no minotaurs in elona reach because farmers kept killing them, you'd never finish the ghostly vengeance quest. Imagine if you slogged your way to the end of urgoz only to find 2 groups camped there ready to kill him the moment he respawns for his green items. WoW tried to mitigate this in low-level areas by making respawn times fairly fast, but the really good gear comes from raids which are, guess what, instanced dungeons.

Instancing has its downsides, but I don't think this is something that can change too significantly about GW at this point. Though they could make some new explorable areas that have "districts" I suppose, but people will whine to high heaven if you stick quests in there that can't be done if they are overfarmed.

You went wrong as soon as you said this:

Before that i was reading and thinking ok this guy might have something usefull to say.
First off "SAYS WHO?"

Most of the time people that don't like the instanced world of GW are players that come from games like WoW, they have played those games for lets say 2 years or more, but for some reason they are looking for something new, for example they didn't like a certain update that changed part of the game they like,they don't want/cant to pay a monthly fee anymore or they simply got bored with it.

These players come with their expectations that guildwars will be like the game they used to play but better,they find out the hard way that it isn't so Then because they have played another game for a few years and liked most things in the other game ( until whatever made them decided to leave happened) they believe that how it was in the other game that that is how it should be done and if it is different they don't like it, or its not good.
If players come with a open mind they will adapt and see that instanced play is not bad as they thought. ( a few examples posted in posts above mine)


Now about your whole opinion, what you are basically saying is that all the good things Guildwars has : Skills, pvp, graphics ,free to play are what make GW a great game.

So you say that eventually WoW will catch up to GW and will also have as nice of graphics , such a good pvp mode, will become free to play and will have skills like GW does, but the only difference being that WoW will be non-instanced and GW will be instanced and what will people choose? In your opinion WoW of course cause people want a non-instanced game.

So let me get this straight , WoW will upgrade and become better and better and in all this time GW will remain the same?How is that even possible?This is were your opinion fails again, yes WoW will get better and better but so will GW.
WoW upgrades to new graphics because direct X 25 is released, guess what GW will too,Believe me,Guildwars isn't going to sit on their butt and let other games pass them by without a fight.

At the end of the day, despite all the exceptions, people play online games for the chance to play with other people. Many of Guild Wars' strengths work counter to that...

I didn't say makes it impossible, just more difficult than other games.

sorry for the rudeness but that is total BS.

I PLAY TO HAVE FUN not to spam will you play with meeee pleaseeeee...

i have a real life i can interact with and i am not seeking pixels for substitute company as you imply most others are doing.

Actually, I have at least one scientific study to back up my claim. And, besides if you read what I wrote, I never ruled out other reasons.

Holy cow, you certainly think a lot of yourself, maybe you should cut down on your herb intake, 'cause it seems you are stuck in a pipe dream.
To think you are the only person to suggest every one of the ideas you mention is so hilariously laughable, its almost sad. I guess with a name like Dreamhunk, you might just have ego issues, so I'll just leave you to them.
Forget about GW becoming non-instanced it ain't gonna happen ever.
The instance is the reason I play. I've played WoW a lot, and while ganking might not be a daily occurrence for most, it still happens more than I would like it too, and that is just fine,because that is how WoW was designed.
I really wish people would quit drawing useless comparisons 'tween the two, all it shows is a general lack of forethought, or much thought period.
ps:@Seyda Neen:don't try to make up words, its a non flattering portrayal of your intelligence. Also titles such as 'Please don't bash me people' , well you are basically asking people to flame you, its like you already realise how silly your idea is, and yet you still post it, then you beg too not be flamed, funny stuff.

Well, we could compare it to pornography, but for the purpose of discussion, comparing Guild Wars to the biggest MMORPG in history doesn't seem so far fetched. I understand what you are getting at...but I also understand why the comparison always crops up.

After all, WoW is peanut butter and Guild Wars is chocolate, so some people just feel naturally inclined to mix them together.


instancesation, yeah, instancing is the word that works.

It's funny becuase I have not went in to detail on my ideas here. So you have no support to your claim or should I say it is very weak. Any way I have already share what I wanted to. It's funny but there is alot players and people that agree with me.

In fact a number of players and people supported it too as well..

bashing people doesnot help with your cause but then agin you can tell alot about person who does not use logic when he/she is writing.

That mainly false... in wow you meet people by pve and find new friends guilds etc... In GW you find new friends same way. The way you are looking at it is that you can't randomly meet poeple while you are doing something.. I like it that way... less random encounters with noobs trying to KS. Quests become a chore because the monster you need to kill is gona get killed by the best guild and not yours... GW size doesn't matter top guilds have less than 15 players not like w0w where more the marrier.. its about skill not about size or hours invested.... im not going to say you can get good without investing some hours but atleast it makes FPS fanboys like me move to a new genre of gaming. Never thought I'd play online RTS but hey it works... you still kick ass but with less aiming...

And the couterargument is this... I meet new poeple all the time because I HA with a lot of poeple. They like the way I play they add me and so on. Its not a matter of restricting online play its just a matter of taste... i still chill in alliance chat and guild chat. I still play with the friends that I have played with for over a year. Its not about having less fun its just about weeding out annoyances in the world...

So, is this why all the new titles are moving away from open world into instancing?

Perhaps your future is different than the one game industry lives in, but instances are where it's at. All the big new upcoming titles are heavily instanced. Those that aren't are bound to fail miserably.

To this, someone will respond with "yea, but look at WoW". I did. It's instanced. Battlefields, dungeons, all instances. The only reason there's a big world is to have people spend money and time on travelling, which detracts them from complete lack of content.

But new titles, Star Trek Online, Star Gate Worlds, Dungeon Runners, are all based around instancing. Many more as well, these just come to mind right now.

The open world aproach has so many problems that were never solvable that everyone gave up on it.

And I always love seeing posts about "GW won't work". And they are the same for over 2 years. I guess nobody bothered to tell Anet that GW is a complete failure and it cannot succeed.

I suggest you read my statement again. I didn't say you can't connect with other people, I said it was more difficult when compared to games like WoW, DAoC, Horizons, Anarchy Online and the late Asheron's Call 2.

Spontaneous encounters in the "wilds" do go a long way to improving your chances for meeting people. Even in situations where other people could get in your way for certain mobs, it was simply a matter of going back later, teaming up with them or simply waiting, there wasn't any shortage of things to do.

Instancing does take a lot off the table. It makes for a clean field of play but also makes it somewhat austere.

It's clear that there are advantages and disadvantages to instancing, just as there are with non instanced zones.

Spontaneity in gaming is a great factor to keep a game from going stale, players intermingling in a dynamic fashion can bring forth that factor without relying on constant game updates from the developers.

Just a thought on the OP's thread title: 'OK, please don't bash me people!'

Have you ever started a sentence with the words 'now don't take this the wrong way, but...' and noticed that more often than not it causes the person you are talking with to 'take it the wrong way'? It's because you've just communicated that you are going to criticize them, and it turns on the 'I'm defensive now!' skill which makes everything you say a personal attack....
What does this title (and the following post) speak to you? I hear myself saying:

Cyas! have fun with WoW! Buh-Bye!

Different strokes for different folks but personally I think instanced areas are the best way to go. Have you ever played EQ? Like the early days of it, not the EQ as it exists now. You could spend hours trying to kill a monster for a particular drop, have it drop only to have some goober run in and snatch your hard earned drop. No thanks. Global PvP sucks too, in a big way. Remember Diablo2? Ever have a javazon walk into your game hostile you and rape you? That was probably me and it was a crappy thing for me to do and I don't do such things anymore and I don't like having such things done to me. Instancing is a great way to make sure that people don't PK and KS you into oblivion and frustration.

its all dependent on the taste.. i kill monsters once every few months.. pvp is why I play guild wars...

WoW = PvE
GW = PvP (i frankly like killing real avatars instead of crappy AI)

OP: Please, just stick with Morrowind. It's clear you were happier there.

i disagree(with the OP)

Sounds like a lot of people should just be playing Oblivion 4.

There is nothing wrong when an online game uses only instanced zones or non-instanced. Both are perfectly viable and both have distinct advantages/disadvantages.

At least Guild Wars is the gamer's option for an instanced game.
Instanced zones allow mechanics that would never work in non-instanced.
Non-instanced zones, although more immersive, are actually more restrictive in the type of mechanics they can employ. You cannot have a non-instanced zone without....
1. Monsters spawning on timers....leading to mob camping. <-The worst thing in online RPGS!
2. The inability to pick up and move objects. <-Can't be done fairly in non-instanced zones. I've seen it tried in EQ2 and it has many problems.
3. Kill steals, exp splitting, power leveling. <-That's a whole lot of code to create to work out how experience is split if someone kills your mob or whether the encounter is locked so that you can't be healed from an outside source, ect.

Non-instanced is okay, but it shouldn't be the standard.

your ideas?! I'm sorry but the ideas you claimed to be yours have been suggested long ago before you did. ships, there are mmo's that are going to have this and they had this idea have been in development for a long time 3 or 4+ years. such as Pirate King Online and Pirates of the Burning Sea. homes, been around in mmo's longer than you think. mounts, always been there. and you claiming that you originally thought of the idea of climbing and they are having in Aion because of you is bull. they had that game in development long before you suggested it. i bet you just saw the game footage of Aion, the footage was released early last year and they are still in development of the game and is set to release sometime this year.

I'm betting that you saw these games before and then you come on to these forums suggesting those features were to be add to the game and claiming it as your own. saying you originally thought it, which you didn't.


did you really "heard" that from somewhere or someone, or are you just lying again. if you had heard it from somewhere or someone they are lying. btw

nice try but you failed

let me throw in a minor correction. Star Trek Online will not be based around instances. so far the only reports of instances there will be restricted to the bridge crew. that is subject to change but its not likely, as the game makers are trying to stay close as possible to cannon, so thank goodness for that. non-instanzied in STO ftw.

for the record, i would love to see GW implement a 70/30 ratio of instances/non-instances areas throughout the game. like for example, any explorable area would be non-instanzied while any mission, quest or high-end dungen area remain instanzied. im not sure if that is possible, but it would be really nice.

Jayce Of Underworld

------------------------------------------------

Animate Soul Lich
Energy: 25
Cast: 3
Recharge: 0

Elite Skill. Animate a level 1...14 Soul Lich
at your location and you lose all energy. You
suffer -1 energy regeneration for each Soul Lich
you control. Whenever a Soul Lich you control
deals damage, you gain 2 energy.(Soul Reaping)