Ok, please don't bash me people! - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Zazoo

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

Johannesburg

Boere Mag

W/Mo

14 Feb 2007 at 06:47 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

my friend i have already debated on this topic about gw on other fourms!

hence I think this why anet and ncsoft are making a bigger up date. I wouldn't be suprised that other compies have taken some of my ideas.

I have talked about the hack and slash to real rpg's and the mmorpg's out there.i have given the reasons why must mmo even wow will fall in the long run. I go as the bomb, balckman on other fourms.

In fact i have notice that the new game vangaurd has some of my ideas like "ships","homes" and "mounts"( i have talk about how this game needs mounts) other things that i have stated on fourms from long ago. I have even seen aion that ncsoft is working on has my ideas in it with climbing too.

even the linar story, i have also debated about! By the way I don't agree that a story needs to be linar by the way.

I also don't agree how charactors being made tanks and damage dealers as well. that kind of setup is bad and lacks freedom.

Sorry we bow to your superior knowledge!!!

To the OP: You should maybe take those blinkers off and take a look around, the reason GW is a SUCCESS is because it is different.
Please stop trying to make GW into a WOW clone.

Kuldebar Valiturus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

Garden City, Idaho

The Order of Relumination (TOoR)

R/

14 Feb 2007 at 07:20 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayce

for the record, i would love to see GW implement a 70/30 ratio of instances/non-instances areas throughout the game. like for example, any explorable area would be non-instanzied while any mission, quest or high-end dungen area remain instanzied. im not sure if that is possible, but it would be really nice.

A noble solution, and it would go a long way to liven up things. I think instancing works great in Guild Wars, but I believe it also needs more explorable/playable non-instanced areas.

The next generation of MMORPG's will definitely contain instancing technology, but it will more likely be applied as it is in World of Warcraft.

I believe a non-instance/modified instance free-for-all PvP area is very plausible. DAoC, the grandfather of mass online PvP has a very open and dynamic system that could also be applied in a Guild Wars appropriate manner. In PvE, I would guess that ANet could just create instanced areas that allow for more players in order to support high scale encounters or challenges.

Present server capability may not allow ANet to create non-instanced explorable areas, but modified instance parameters might be possible.

Probably the best solution in a game would be both: instanced and non-instanced areas.Applied in the best way to support the situation.

sindex

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

California

Swords of Night & Day [SWRD]

14 Feb 2007 at 07:32 - 43

Here allow me to help with this problem addressed by the original poster. I have seen games live and fail, but one of the things I have seen is games that hook certain players who find their niche in the gaming world.

Guild Wars is in fact one of those games. Like Everquest or Counter Strike that came before it, certain games live on because people find this game attractive. Unless the community is royally screwed over (excuse my bluntness). There are even people that still play The Matrix Online (and still pay for it too). Like the die hard Star Wars fans, certain things go on including this saga.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

14 Feb 2007 at 07:57 - 44

About the grouping thing. Quite a ways back there were no henchies and explorable areas were single-player only and basically optional. The idea was you join up for missions with others in the respective outpost, and can explore by yourself otherwise, I.E. you wouldn't even need friends in explorable areas. So this was less of an issue at that point in their design...

If GW wanted to create "non-instanced" areas, remember that players aren't fragmented into a ton of servers like most MMOs. Its possible you could have several hundred people piling into one explorable area in a new campaign. I think if they wanted to implement this, at best they'd have something like "districts' in town, which can hold a max # of players, and creating new districts if the current are full.

Another issue is that if you expect people to randomly join up, you'd probably need an option to kick hench/heroes on the fly. Because otherwise nearly everyone will just bring a full AI party and no-one will play together, as it's quite a disadvantage to enter an area have fewer members on your side. In fact I imagine we'd see a lot of people in instances sticking to their hero/hench regardless, mostly negating the coolness of this feature. I guess they could also disable AIs from entering these areas but I don't know how well that would go over.

Marth Reynolds

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

The Netherlands

The Lore Enforcers

Me/A

14 Feb 2007 at 11:13 - 45

Instances are a brilliant idea IMO, giving you the freedom to go solo or with henchies/ other people and kill whatever you want.

The free world will often have certain monsters you'd want to hunt killed already or other people slaughtering you...

after playing NWN on the three town server i got tired of such free world servers, Sure you can have a lot of fun here, but none the less other people can also ruin your fun here...

GW lets you choose how much freedom you want as in player with or vs other players, and i like it.

of course this is just my opinion, but the instanced world is one of the best features in GW IMO

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

14 Feb 2007 at 11:30 - 46

You could have huge "wilderness" areas connected to small outposts like Fort Aspenwood/Jad Quarry, where it drops all other party members when you zone, so it's just you, solo. Then they could program this wilderness where you could actually group up with people once you're there, exploring.

This "wilderness" could have dynamic events, like battles, weather, player-controlled events, etc. You could even have a high-level "wilderness" that is inhabited by a handful of super-bosses, or raid bosses. Basically, it would be a few zones devoted to pure MMO-style play, while the rest of the game (the required for storyline part of the game) is in classic GW style.

This way, everyone could have their cake, and eat it, too. I like options, I like this.

dreamhunk

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

:P

E/Me

14 Feb 2007 at 13:45 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by grottoftl

your ideas?! I'm sorry but the ideas you claimed to be yours have been suggested long ago before you did. ships, there are mmo's that are going to have this and they had this idea have been in development for a long time 3 or 4+ years. such as Pirate King Online and Pirates of the Burning Sea. homes, been around in mmo's longer than you think. mounts, always been there. and you claiming that you originally thought of the idea of climbing and they are having in Aion because of you is bull. they had that game in development long before you suggested it. i bet you just saw the game footage of Aion, the footage was released early last year and they are still in development of the game and is set to release sometime this year.

I'm betting that you saw these games before and then you come on to these forums suggesting those features were to be add to the game and claiming it as your own. saying you originally thought it, which you didn't.

did you really "heard" that from somewhere or someone, or are you just lying again. if you had heard it from somewhere or someone they are lying. btw

nice try but you failed

No offense i have been on these fourms for long time. I was around since beta!

guild hall then guru now gw online

I have shared some my ideas even before aion was even made.

man some of you will fight thin air . Any way I am not getting paid for give my ideas. I give them when i want to. Any way I'm on gw online debating dervish class and talking about gvg how it is nothing more than like a pug

I am sure you can track my writings as well as there is people online that know me

the op is right about pve by the way. Instance and open world can be worked on but that is another debate.

Kakumei

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Grind is subjective

learn this please

14 Feb 2007 at 13:50 - 48

Quick thing: guys, you can not argue with Dreamhunk. People have tried--he makes outlandish claims, refuses to back up anything he says, and writes in such a vague manner it's almost impossible to understand what the hell he's trying to say.

On topic--meh, everyone's said what needs to be said already.

Meat Axe

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Brisbane, Australia

R/

14 Feb 2007 at 14:11 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

No offense i have been on these fourms for long time. I was around since beta!

guild hall then guru now gw online

I have shared some my ideas even before aion was even made.

man some of you will fight thin air . Any way I am not getting paid for give my ideas. I give them when i want to. Any way I'm on gw online debating dervish class and talking about gvg how it is nothing more than like a pug

I have to agree with grottoftl on this one. The minute I read your post claiming that these were "your" ideas, I laughed so hard. It was hilarious. Houses, ships, and mounts have been in games forever. Ultima 1, made back in 1980 had ships and mounts. Sure, it's not an MMO, but what I'm trying to say is that there are plenty of sources for designers to get the ideas that you claim to be your own.

Houses are a little less common, but a lot of online games have them nowadays. I mean, even Runescape and Neopets have them, just two of the crappier games I could think of. The notion that these ideas are your own is just ridiculous.

But anyway, back to the point of this whole thread. I disagree with the suggestion of adding non-instance areas. What would make them any different from a town, apart from a few monsters. I just don't see the point. Sure, it's a place where everyone can go and be happy and play together, but you can do that anyway. And I know a lot of people now play with henches/heroes/guildies/friends, but what makes you think they'll give up this trend just so they can go and do something they already have refused to do?

To me, adding in non-instanced areas would just be a waste of time. I wouldn't go near them, for the same reason I try to avoid main towns like the plague. The lag, and all the spam. It'd be just like a town, only instead of 10 year-olds standing around having virtual sex with each other, you'll have 10 year-olds running round having virtual sex with monsters.

Not to mention the whole server problem. You know, the one that is basically the reason for the entire game being instanced.

dreamhunk

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

:P

E/Me

14 Feb 2007 at 14:20 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meat Axe

I have to agree with grottoftl on this one. The minute I read your post claiming that these were "your" ideas, I laughed so hard. It was hilarious. Houses, ships, and mounts have been in games forever. Ultima 1, made back in 1980 had ships and mounts. Sure, it's not an MMO, but what I'm trying to say is that there are plenty of sources for designers to get the ideas that you claim to be your own.

Houses are a little less common, but a lot of online games have them nowadays. I mean, even Runescape and Neopets have them, just two of the crappier games I could think of. The notion that these ideas are your own is just ridiculous.

But anyway, back to the point of this whole thread. I disagree with the suggestion of adding non-instance areas. What would make them any different from a town, apart from a few monsters. I just don't see the point. Sure, it's a place where everyone can go and be happy and play together, but you can do that anyway. And I know a lot of people now play with henches/heroes/guildies/friends, but what makes you think they'll give up this trend just so they can go and do something they already have refused to do?

To me, adding in non-instanced areas would just be a waste of time. I wouldn't go near them, for the same reason I try to avoid main towns like the plague. The lag, and all the spam. It'd be just like a town, only instead of 10 year-olds standing around having virtual sex with each other, you'll have 10 year-olds running round having virtual sex with monsters.

Not to mention the whole server problem. You know, the one that is basically the reason for the entire game being instanced.

like said I didnot go into detail how it should be done and used and why it is need by the way.

I have yet to see a mmorpg have such things as climbing and diving!

I yet to see a mmorpg that has palotics etc.

I have stated my statement and not gone into detail is that so hard for people to understand?

all the mmorpg out there not even real rpg's any way they nothing more than hack and slash.

Redfeather1975

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Apartment#306

Rhedd Asylum

Me/

14 Feb 2007 at 14:22 - 51

I love how people sometimes talk like WoW invented certain things in MMOs.
It never invented anything. It's not innovative. It just streamlined everything that was already found to be appealing in other games, yet it also included things that are flawed from other MMORPGs, without really trying to break the standard mold of MMORPGs, like GW has turned out to attempt.
I've played many different MMORPGs and WoW was never innovative...just very streamlined.

Reminds me, I need to edit the wiki that says WoW invented raiding. What nonsense! lol

dreamhunk

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

:P

E/Me

14 Feb 2007 at 14:25 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

I love how people sometimes talk like WoW invented certain things in MMOs.
It never invented anything. It's not innovative. It just streamlined everything that was already found to be appealing in other games, yet it included things without really being innovative like GW has turned out to be.
I've played many different MMORPGs and WoW was never innovative...just very streamlined.

Reminds me, I need to edit the wiki that says WoW invented raiding. What nonsense! lol

i would agree with that d&d and lord of rings was around alot longer than wow came about.

Redfeather1975

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Apartment#306

Rhedd Asylum

Me/

14 Feb 2007 at 14:34 - 53

Don't get me wrong. WoW is a decent game. It's success is proof of that.
It's just that I hate people wanting GW to be similar to WoW. We don't need more of the same. In my opinion online RPGs were becoming stagnant until games like GW came along.
WoW just put everything together in a package that was quick and easy to get into and freshened up the old. People will and have gotten tired of the game and at some point, a entirely new formula for online RPGs will need to be created.
I did a small amount of Beta Testing with Vanguard and even though it has several new ideas, it really is Everquest repackaged with some things that McQuaid probably wanted to add to the original Everquest before leaving the team. I have my doubts that Vanguard will reshape online RPGs.

BTW, something I thought would be cool is Guild Wars style play, including the massive number of skills and game mechanics, set in the present or future. Skills would be equipment, or cybernetic/psychic abilities that you would put onto your skill bar and you'd go through cities and jack vehicles 'ala' Grand Theft Auto, and you'd hack into computers similar to Shadowrun. I think it would be huge!

dreamhunk

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

:P

E/Me

14 Feb 2007 at 14:46 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

Don't get me wrong. WoW is a decent game. It's success is proof of that.
It's just that I hate people wanting GW to be similar to WoW. We don't need more of the same. In my opinion online RPGs were becoming stagnant until games like GW came along.
WoW just put everything together in a package that was quick and easy to get into and freshened up the old. People will and have gotten tired of the game and at some point, a entirely new formula for online RPGs will need to be created.
I did a small amount of Beta Testing with Vanguard and even though it has several new ideas, it really is Everquest repackaged with some things that McQuaid probably wanted to add to the original Everquest before leaving the team. I have my doubts that Vanguard will reshape online RPGs.

BTW, something I thought would be cool is Guild Wars style play, including the massive number of skills and game mechanics, set in the present or future. Skills would be equipment, or cybernetic/psychic abilities that you would put onto your skill bar and you'd go through cities and jack vehicles 'ala' Grand Theft Auto, and you'd hack into computers similar to Shadowrun. I think it would be huge!

I have ideas for super heros mmorpg kinda of long detail

It would include stuff like warewolfs shapeshiters vampires

fast cars shoping malls, night and day would be important.

it would kinda of be like like street fighter or mortal comabt in how players fight

etc it's kinda of long in detail

Redfeather1975

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Apartment#306

Rhedd Asylum

Me/

14 Feb 2007 at 14:50 - 55

Hey, that sounds really cool. Fantasy themed games are kinda running old to me. Something like you described would be pretty wicked!

But wait, you want to have hordes of zombies in areas, right?
You have to have the old warehouse filled with hordes of zombies to rip through!

Hey, did you play Omikron:The Nomad Soul? I liked that game. It was pretty cool for it's time.

dreamhunk

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

:P

E/Me

14 Feb 2007 at 14:53 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

Hey, that sounds really cool. Fantasy themed games are kinda running old to me. Something like you described would be pretty wicked!

But wait, you want to have hordes of zombies in areas, right?
You have to have the old warehouse filled with hordes of zombies to rip through!

food would be important lol

vampires and all undead would need to feed and you can't come out in the day time.

unless two things happen if you playing undead. You take damage or protect your self so how from sun light but you still suffer weakness or damage.

Bastian

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mo/A

14 Feb 2007 at 16:29 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

OP: Please, just stick with Morrowind. It's clear you were happier there.

Lol, QFT!

Instancing > Non-Instancing

GW > WoW

Houses, mounts, and that crap are for Elder Scrolls.

---------------------------------------------------
EDIT: Actually, if you want houses, go find your 5 year old neighbor and play house with her, you can even have a tea party too.
----------------------------------------------------

Check what game you're buying before you buy it. I bought GW because instancing is leetsauce and the PvP is way way way better.

If you can't be social the way it is now, non-instancing ain't gonna make it any better.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

14 Feb 2007 at 16:44 - 58

your worst nightmare come true

imagine if you will being in that geat big open non instanced area and all those total jerks that ruined your quests and missions were able to get together at the same time and you could not zone out to avoid them.

Dutch Masterr

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Long Island, NY

Elite Knights [SWAT]

W/

14 Feb 2007 at 16:55 - 59

what many, many people don't understand about guild wars is that it is a VERY delicate-balanced game. the slightest change in the gameplay would require drastic changes to every other aspect of the game. you must accept the way guild wars is, and what kind of game it is. this game is already completed and has a set way of doing things that cannot be changed without changing the entire game into something else. guild wars shouldnt really be compared to other games...either you like it or you dont. the only changes they can make gameplay-wise is skill balances/changes/additions, introducing new professions and adding new explorable areas/missions/campaigns...all of which they do.

Vinraith

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

14 Feb 2007 at 17:28 - 60

Instancing is the reason I play this game, basically. I don't play MMO's, and wouldn't play this game if it abruptly became one in that sense. Everyone's always trying to get free WoW, it seems like. Am I the only one that wouldn't play WoW even if it were free?

Bastian

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mo/A

14 Feb 2007 at 17:29 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

Instancing is the reason I play this game, basically. I don't play MMO's, and wouldn't play this game if it abruptly became one in that sense. Everyone's always trying to get free WoW, it seems like. Am I the only one that wouldn't play WoW even if it were free?

I wouldn't play WoW even if they paid me a monthly fee. Instancing is FTW.

Redfeather1975

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Apartment#306

Rhedd Asylum

Me/

14 Feb 2007 at 17:37 - 62

I played WoW. It was fun for a bit, but I'd played similar games before, and I got quickly tired of grinding levels to get new skills and using the same 6-10 skills in every fight a thousand times. So tiring.

kolakoski

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2006

New York City

Knights of Shadowpeak

W/

14 Feb 2007 at 18:35 - 63

Well met!

In Guild Wars, there are no Uber-characters or Uber-equipment. That, coupled with the skill system, creates a unique game in and of itself. The current instancing system is fine. My suggestions are additional areas, not changes to the rest of the game.

I envision additional, lvl 20, PvPvE areas, along the following lines:

1. Due to server limitations, limit participation to 24-32 characters.

2. Must enter alone (or, at most, with one human companion); no henchies, no heros, pets probably ok.

3. No looting of dead characters.

4. When you enter, you enter at the same time as all others in that instance, and it is unique to you and those others, just as in the rest of Guild Wars.

5. No teams; everyone fights as an individual.

6. Experience, loot, drop system: open to suggestion (as is all the rest). Possibilities: Boss monsters guard chests; when boss monsters dead, chests available to all (experience and/or capping elite skill available to all in instance at worst, if no more equitable system possible).

Areas may differ in detail, depending on how much encouragement/discouragement of PvP activity is desired. In its most benign aspect, cooperation is encouraged and rudeness is discouraged. Suggestions?

Wo Tan Ki, Ranger, Knights of Shadowpeak (KoS)

Commander Ryker

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jun 2005

R/

14 Feb 2007 at 18:56 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by seyda_neen

The major weak point of GW is the instancesation. This is the part where I in my humble opinion think Guild Wars will loose its stronghold. The future of online gaming is headed towards the openess, being able to travel to everywhere, to meet people on your travel, to fight with people or against them (yes it does sound like wow). The instancesation results in the restrictions that make players will leave Guild Wars in the near future when other games arrive.

I totally disagree with this. If you look at how people behave in towns and out posts and then put these same people in non-instanced area's, what you'll have is a lot of people killing and stealing from others and no one killing foes. I love the serenity of instance area's. No idiots, potty mouths and players who think they are leet. Like someone else said, if you don't like it, go play wow. I like Guild Wars with instanced area's.

jayce

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

N/

14 Feb 2007 at 19:44 - 65

Source: MMORPG.com Editorial Debate

Quote:

Instanced Raids vs Contested Raids: Darren and Robert debate

Darren Bridle: Contested mobs are bad for games that have instancing available to them. The only players that seem to argue for contested mobs are those in the top 1% of the game, what about the other 99%? Instancing has made smaller guilds capable of having fun and experiencing raid content that was never before seen let alone attempted.

In Everquest one, back in the early days, I remember the feeling of being beaten to Trakanon, it was a gut wrenching feeling to be sitting there prepping for the kill, when another more experienced guild walked in and took the kill. Where is the spirited racing to kill the raid mob first in that? Only one set of players can get glory leaving everyone else to feel dejected and unworthy. If content developers spent more time creating varied and challenging instanced encounters, there is no need.
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Robert Fitzgerald: While instancing would seem to provide the type of enjoyment smaller tight-knit guilds would enjoy, it absolutely alienates the solo player and small groups of friends who play. Instance dungeons are generally driven by level and the number of players needed to succeed within the dungeon. Many players are not able to muster the necessary bodies to enjoy all that is within an instanced area. Instancing promotes segregation within the game, which is contrary to the evolution of massively multiplayer games.

The fundamental problem with instancing is it creates a different type of elitism within the MMO world. This new elitism is borne from the prospect of "if you want to see what’s inside the wonderful instanced area, you need to be in a guild period." Rather than bringing thousands of people together in a virtual world thus allowing them to interact and enjoy a mystical realm as members of a faction, instancing brings thousands of people together from all across the globe only to once again divide them intosmaller groups.
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Darren Bridle: While those intentions are true, the fact of the MMO world as it stands just doesn’t cater to players like they used too. "Griefing" and "Botting" have caused havoc in these open zones with hundreds of players forcing groups into instanced dungeons just to get away from it. Single groups can enjoy the varied instances with sometimes long and elaborate story lines in them, without being disturbed by other players after the same goals. Often contested areas involve long camps sometimes ending in little or no success. Instanced dungeons with lockout timers remove the need for camping and worrying about other players "kill stealing" or hovering like vultures waiting for you to fail. It’s the MMO population that has forced instancing into the genre, but implemented correctly instancing is a great solution.
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Robert Fitzgerald: Much like the infamous $2 million cup of coffee and subsequent "Caution contents may be hot," we once again find ourselves creating solutions to address the problems brought about by the few. While general player griefing can be a problem within contested areas, it is a problem created by a few bad apples. How far should developers take this line of thinking? How many more features will the developers add to the game world to combat troublemakers? Instancing areas has become an alternative to good customer service. Developers have chosen to separate players through content rather than creating harmony through policy enforcement.

Contested content provides the purest MMO experience. Allowing players to interact with others within the world created. Players coming together, surviving great tests, and forming bonds is what MMO's should be about. Constantly creating ways to overcome the career griefer within MMO's will only lead us to a game where all of the game is instanced and all players are segregated bar the few rare meeting areas ala Guild Wars. Social skills or the lack thereof should not drive the "innovation" of MMO's. More focus should be put into creating more contested content, more areas within the game where players can experience excitement thus spreading out the population of a game world. More exciting areas would do great wonders to alleviating congestion and griefing. If there are only one or two really "cool" dungeons’ or areas within a game, of course everyone is going to be there.
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Darren Bridle: I'm going to bring up 2 topics, quests and raiding. I think that design can fix the first of these 2, questing. All too often, contested mobs are needed for quests. These mobs either drop good loot or the quest itself is a good quest that everyone wants to do. This creates griefing, camping, kill stealing, farming etc. I think that MMO designers have realized these issues and used instancing to relieve some of this. I think Rob is right in saying that instancing is not the solution to questing. A better design would be to use more triggers. Remove loot from contested quest mobs.

However, on the flip side, if anyone has played Everquest 2 and completed the instance "Nektropos Castle" they know this instance is a quest and a story plot all in one. It has traps, puzzles, clues, named, bosses, you name it, it has it. This is a wonderful use of instancing, with great design. It moves away from the "Lets just throw an instance in with some loot to make everyone happy" ideals. If we can find some combination of Quest instances with trigger mobs, I think contested questing can be a thing of the past and a lot better world for MMO players.

Now onto the second topic of raiding, I really can’t think of a good way to avoid instances with raiding. Contested mobs are demoralizing for raids. Only the elitist manage to mobilize and take down contested mobs fast enough. Everquest 2 has taken a trigger approach, but the trigger has to be "up" in order to use it, which defeats the purpose. Triggers create too many drops so that won't work either. Lockouts for instances can control the amount of loot coming into the game, while also giving guilds their own area to play in without hassle. I think instancing for raiding is a great way to bring a guild closer together, and enjoy uninterrupted, grief free events

i think a mix between the two could prove healthy for GW. as stated in my previous post, im only speaking of some non-instanzied explorable areas, not all of them.

Jayce Of Underworld

------------------------------------------------

Animate Soul Lich
Energy: 25
Cast: 3
Recharge: 0

Elite Skill. Animate a level 1...14 Soul Lich
at your location and you lose all energy. You
suffer -1 energy regeneration for each Soul Lich
you control. Whenever a Soul Lich you control
deals damage, you gain 2 energy.(Soul Reaping)

Shmanka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

In Your Head

The Brave Will Fall [Nion]

Me/

14 Feb 2007 at 19:48 - 66

After reading the OP, I have a question.

Why didn't you just name this thread, "hey guys im gonna post this one-sided, horribly thought out, ridiculous flamewar on my uncollected opinion that will eventually get the moderators closing this thread and/or peoples accounts" ?

Kuldebar Valiturus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

Garden City, Idaho

The Order of Relumination (TOoR)

R/

14 Feb 2007 at 20:03 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Ryker

I totally disagree with this. If you look at how people behave in towns and out posts and then put these same people in non-instanced area's, what you'll have is a lot of people killing and stealing from others and no one killing foes. I love the serenity of instance area's. No idiots, potty mouths and players who think they are leet. Like someone else said, if you don't like it, go play wow. I like Guild Wars with instanced area's.

I disagree. Unless the people that play Guild Wars are somehow different then players of other online games, I can't see how your conclusion could be correct.

It's kind of like in the Planet of the Apes, herd the humans up into crowded dirty cages, treat them like animals, lobotomize them and conclude that they are dumb, smelly beasts with no soul...

My guess would be that the behavior you refer to in the Outposts is precipitated by the dearth of widespread interaction elsewhere. At the very least, it simply condenses and compounds all those types of problems into a smaller slice of time and space with in the game. Rats in a cage, so to speak.

Instances have merit, and so do open free zones that can be played in, Guild Wars swung one way on the pendulum, World of Warcraft, the other way. People tend to forget that in WoW most high level content and PvP occurs in instances.

One thing that Guild Wars needs, like WoW is the persistent instance which would preclude the problem of losing an instance if you get disconnected, etc. But, I am getting off the subject...

A little note on open zones:

Too much is made of kill stealing, the simple "tag" system determines who gets kill/loot credit and largely reduces any motivation to rush and steal a kill.

After 2 years in WoW and thousands of hours played on a PvP server, I had very few occasions where player interference (other than PvP) caused me a significant delay in getting a quest done.

Most people learn cooperation over time, but they have to have the opportunity and the need to cooperate first, before they become proficient at it. In game reputation matters a lot as well, no hiding in district #400 or such.

It's really an interesting topic:

A closed, stable system versus an open, dynamic system. Or, security versus freedom...

I, personally, always lean toward the latter. But, perhaps the best system would allow the player to choose...

kolakoski

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2006

New York City

Knights of Shadowpeak

W/

14 Feb 2007 at 20:47 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus

I disagree. Unless the people that play Guild Wars are somehow different then players of other online games, I can't see how your conclusion could be correct.

It's kind of like in the Planet of the Apes, herd the humans up into crowded dirty cages, treat them like animals, lobotomize them and conclude that they are dumb, smelly beasts with no soul...

My guess would be that the behavior you refer to in the Outposts is precipitated by the dearth of widespread interaction elsewhere. At the very least, it simply condenses and compounds all those types of problems into a smaller slice of time and space with in the game. Rats in a cage, so to speak.

Instances have merit, and so do open free zones that can be played in, Guild Wars swung one way on the pendulum, World of Warcraft, the other way. People tend to forget that in WoW most high level content and PvP occurs in instances.

One thing that Guild Wars needs, like WoW is the persistent instance which would preclude the problem of losing an instance if you get disconnected, etc. But, I am getting off the subject...

A little note on open zones:

Too much is made of kill stealing, the simple "tag" system determines who gets kill/loot credit and largely reduces any motivation to rush and steal a kill.

After 2 years in WoW and thousands of hours played on a PvP server, I had very few occasions where player interference (other than PvP) caused me a significant delay in getting a quest done.

Most people learn cooperation over time, but they have to have the opportunity and the need to cooperate first, before they become proficient at it. In game reputation matters a lot as well, no hiding in district #400 or such.

It's really an interesting topic:

A closed, stable system versus an open, dynamic system. Or, security versus freedom...

I, personally, always lean toward the latter. But, perhaps the best system would allow the player to choose...

Wel met!

I could not agree with you more! IMHO, most of the posts on this topic place instancing, or a lack of it, is the difference between Guild Wars and other MMOs, such as WoW. However, what really sets Guild Wars apart, again IMHO, are the Skill System, lvl cap, and lack of Uber-equipment. With these in place, all the arguments comparing the results of instancing, or a lack of it, in WoW with the potential consequences of changing the parameters of instancing in Guild Wars resemble comparing apples and oranges.

Wo Tan Ki, Ranger (KoS)

Bastian

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mo/A

14 Feb 2007 at 20:58 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus

I disagree. Unless the people that play Guild Wars are somehow different then players of other online games, I can't see how your conclusion could be correct.

To generalize that all online game players are the same is ridiculous. Perhaps you missed the 5,000 posts where GW has proven they are not an MMO but a cooperative online game. There is a difference. And those people that like one may not like the other, hence making them "different" in the types of online games they enjoy. So, the conclusion can indeed be correct.

Quote:

My guess would be that the behavior you refer to in the Outposts is precipitated by the dearth of widespread interaction elsewhere. At the very least, it simply condenses and compounds all those types of problems into a smaller slice of time and space with in the game. Rats in a cage, so to speak.

I think it has less to do with instancing than you would think, and more to do with the anonymity of online gaming. Of course, the difference between a distric full of idiots and an explorable area with just comrades makes the change much more pronounced.

Quote:

One thing that Guild Wars needs, like WoW is the persistent instance which would preclude the problem of losing an instance if you get disconnected, etc. But, I am getting off the subject...

Guild Wars != WoW. So therefore, it does not need anything like WoW. The two models are different. Vastly different. By the way, reconnects have been in place for at least a month now.

Remember, GW is based around balanced. That is why there are no uber rare weapons that have crazy mods. That is why level caps are at 20. That is why PvP is much better in GW than in WoW. The games are different. Period. There is no use in making them more similar. Pick the one you like, and live with it. Don't bring your WoW crap here cause I don't want it. For those that do -- enjoy your monthly fee.

Redfeather1975

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Apartment#306

Rhedd Asylum

Me/

14 Feb 2007 at 21:08 - 70

To me the largest difference between instanced and non-instanced zones is the gameplay challenges offered.

A non-instanced zone uses a large number of rules that do nothing but restrict players in the end, simply in order to maintain a level of challenge to players. Locking encounters, monsters respawning on timers, no secret doors nor objects that can be moved to solve puzzles.
I really believe instanced zones can offer a great way to provide challenge without breaking the immersion or restricting the player in convoluted ways.

If it's a question of simply being able to interact with people on your adventures then it's quite possible to have an instanced zone randomly shared by more than one party, and offer a new type of scaling content in case both those parties worked together, otherwise they would go their separate paths within the zone.

Those types of shared instances with scaling content, if the parties involved chose to work together, might actually prove to be quite fun and dynamic.

Swift Thief

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2007

Aatxe Pirates [YaRR]

A/

14 Feb 2007 at 21:16 - 71

No instances would mean complete chaos. Instances are cool and are way better than the ability to bring everyone from a single outpost to go fight or something.

lightblade

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

The Etereal Guard

Me/Mo

14 Feb 2007 at 21:51 - 72

Have OP ever played WoW? You should go play that then you'll see how instancing is better. Or...if you want an even more dramatic comparison go play Ragnarok Online. That game is way more crowded than WoW. You won't even able to find a monster to kill.

wilebill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mt Vernon, Ohio

Band of the Hawk

W/Mo

14 Feb 2007 at 22:58 - 73

I like instancing better! Yeah, I play WoW too, and I've played on both PvP and Normal servers. OP, I think what you are looking for is something like WoW on a PvP server -- which is a great experience if you are in a good guild.

Nearly all the time on WoW I've found that when you really need help from other players, there are none to be found. You might as well be on an instanced game like GW. On the other hand, when you need a particular boss, you can be sure that the group just ahead of you killed it off and you will have to wait for it to respawn. Just as it does, some maniac dings it and you wait again! The best parts of WoW for me are the Instances, not the open environments.

Then too, getting ganked is no fun at all ... someone's little brother running around a low level area with a level 60 blasting everyone because he can.

Duels ... now these are often fun ... but the downside is 90% of the time I am challenged to a duel I am talking to a vendor, working on a profession, or otherwise obviously busy. Duels ... yeah, I can do without them.

I think GW will be around for a long time to come.

jayce

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

N/

15 Feb 2007 at 00:38 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

If it's a question of simply being able to interact with people on your adventures then it's quite possible to have an instanced zone randomly shared by more than one party, and offer a new type of scaling content in case both those parties worked together, otherwise they would go their separate paths within the zone.

Those types of shared instances with scaling content, if the parties involved chose to work together, might actually prove to be quite fun and dynamic.

i believe what you stated here would appease to a lot of people looking for that non-instancized experience, with perhaps the exception of where you mentioned party members. if they make it so that once you enter the area, you run into whoever and decide to stick together, then fine. in order for it to work, it must be truely random. that way you never know whats in store for you.

oohh... i just thought of something else. if they made it FFA, then you would have to watch out for more than just mobs. better keep an eye on who's in your target window

but that would probably make more people angry. oh but what fun indeed.

Jayce Of Underworld

------------------------------------------------

Animate Soul Lich
Energy: 25
Cast: 3
Recharge: 0

Elite Skill. Animate a level 1...14 Soul Lich
at your location and you lose all energy. You
suffer -1 energy regeneration for each Soul Lich
you control. Whenever a Soul Lich you control
deals damage, you gain 2 energy.(Soul Reaping)

Kuldebar Valiturus

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

Garden City, Idaho

The Order of Relumination (TOoR)

R/

15 Feb 2007 at 03:06 - 75

Quote: