Hello,
I did some testing versus lvl 8 gargoyles (outside nolanys), because the lvl difference would make me do even more damage(which may be apreciated by the % dmg modifier), yet even after attacking a lvl 2 resurrect gargoyle the damage(when a critical strike happened), was Exactly the same using a 14% damage over 50% or using a 15% damage over 50%, now if this is how it works in a lvl 2, im guessing 10% is the same than 15% vs monsters or ppl of your lvl. Is this the way its supposed to be?
14% and 15% damage doing exactly same damage?
oscarmk
Retribution X
ok, lets do simple math. 13% of 22 is 2.86 dmg. 14% of 22 is 3.08 dmg. 15% of 22 is 3.3 dmg. they round, so paying the extra 50k+ isn't worth it.
Hope that helps.
Hope that helps.
Unheard Echo
What would be better? I bought 2 stormbows each for 30k. One is +14% Enchanted req 8 and the other is +15% Enchanted req 11. Which would be better to mod and use? Keep in mind I plan to most likely mod the one I dont keep and try to sell it for some profit. Sorry to have sort of hijacked the post but why make another for a small question
oscarmk
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Originally Posted by Retribution X
ok, lets do simple math. 13% of 22 is 2.86 dmg. 14% of 22 is 3.08 dmg. 15% of 22 is 3.3 dmg. they round, so paying the extra 50k+ isn't worth it.
Hope that helps. |
Demonicevl
People buy 15%^50 because for one they are a rarity. People usually by things for rarity and this just proves it. Sort of like the HoD swords. They give +5 energy, yet they have req.9 and 14-21 dmg. I personally wouldn't really care about the +5 energy and just make do with what i have, just the fact that they are rare makes them worth more.
mattjones527
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Originally Posted by Demonicevl
People buy 15%^50 because for one they are a rarity. People usually by things for rarity and this just proves it. Sort of like the HoD swords. They give +5 energy, yet they have req.9 and 14-21 dmg. I personally wouldn't really care about the +5 energy and just make do with what i have, just the fact that they are rare makes them worth more.
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Back on topic: I agree the 15^50 is just more valuable for its rarity
Sk8tborderx
If you were to customize your weapon then the +15% would be better than the +14%. 1 extra damage doesn't make that big of a difference though.
oscarmk
what type of rounding does the game use?, .5 becomes 1 and .499 0??
Jetdoc
The general consensus on rounding is that ANet rounds all fractions DOWN. So, in Retribution's example, 2.86 damage would be 2 damage, and 3.3 damage would be 3 damage.
jimmy_logic
Bugger if I did 3.99 damage then. 
Lord Iowerth
Yes ... while it's nice bragging rights to say "Hey, look at my perfect 15>50 fellblade", it's really not that big of a deal. On the other side of that coin, if you're selling, people really do go nuts for perfect mods. I sell all my perfect modded weapons, and for wielding I stick with greens or "almost perfect" weapons. For example ...
<-- Bought a 14%>50 gold req 8 fellblade for something like 60k less than the seller wanted for his 15%>50
Maybe he should have been reading this thread
<-- Bought a 14%>50 gold req 8 fellblade for something like 60k less than the seller wanted for his 15%>50
Maybe he should have been reading this thread
dont feel no pain
if i'm going to get a new weapon it's always 13% or 14% (>50 , enchated , stance)
Red Sonya
There is another advantage to the HOD sword and that +5 Energy. This effectively allows a Plated Armored Character the ablity to use 25 energy spells and hold a shield without having to use Gladiators Armor Chest/Legs to get the same effect. Not that many would use all their energy as such, but, it still makes it possible to use elemental and others skills that is your secondary that cost 25 energy. 
Akhilleus
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Originally Posted by oscarmk
so for any sittuation ithe 14% and 15% do exacly the same?, why does ppl buy 15% then?.
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but, 99.9% of the time they probably do the same.
but if you get a base-attack damage of, lets say, 100, with a skill, the extra 1% will increase your damage by...1.
for all intensive purposes the following items are useless:
15%/20% weapons
30 hp pommels, hafts, grips, etc
req 7 weapons
superior absorb
superior vigor
+30 always shields
+45 shields
+30 focus items
etc
why? because you can buy 1-off-perfect items for (often) half the cost, and they are for all intensive purposes just as effective.
why is that extra 1 damage 3% of the time or that narrow escape with 1 hp left worth so much then?
3 words:
perfection and vanity.
as stated, the vast majority of the time the performance is exactly the same as the next-step up, but people want perfect perfection perfection, and if it isnt expensive, its not worth buying.
LifeInfusion
Also, if you have too much spare time on your hands, you would want a 15>50 as storage for over 1mil.
Other than that 14>50 is just as good (if not 100X better due to price difference).
Other than that 14>50 is just as good (if not 100X better due to price difference).
Red Sonya
Because of the "random" effect involved in the game nothing is absolute. It depends a lot on luck moreso than 15% vs 14% or 13% given you have two equally experienced players using the same skills. So, just because your friend (or enemy) has a perfect weapon doesn't mean they will outdamage you all the time if you have a 13% or 14% weapon, mainly because of that random feature that truely determines the victor especially if you have the same experienced players using the same skills and weapon types.
Francis Crawford
How strong is the consensus about everything being rounded down?
Mojo Moo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Unheard Echo
What would be better? I bought 2 stormbows each for 30k. One is +14% Enchanted req 8 and the other is +15% Enchanted req 11. Which would be better to mod and use? Keep in mind I plan to most likely mod the one I dont keep and try to sell it for some profit. Sorry to have sort of hijacked the post but why make another for a small question
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Retribution X
in your case, the 15% ench, sell both and get a 13%. MUCH cheaper, same dmg as a 14%.
The Acolyte
yeah...in the end, people are just looking for bragging rights. I think Anet has done a wonderful job of making most max damage weapons relatively similar in performance. Granted, the dmg% bonus when hp>50% (or similar) is worth it as long as there is some type of bonus, when you start to try and distinguish a 13 or even 12 percent dmg bonus to a 15 percent there really isn't a difference.
If you are one of those people that becomes very bothered by a comment like "that's an ok item" or "mine is better because the stats are better", then you're going to be spending a lot of money. Same as skins; "that looks noob" or "mine looks uber" are others.
If you have droks armor, and a weapon with a bonus modifier and some mods on it you really aren't at a disadvantage to someone that has a perfect rare. The way you play your toon strategically and tactically, especially in the skills/spells dept, will determine how well you do in the game both pve and pvp.
The Acolyte
If you are one of those people that becomes very bothered by a comment like "that's an ok item" or "mine is better because the stats are better", then you're going to be spending a lot of money. Same as skins; "that looks noob" or "mine looks uber" are others.
If you have droks armor, and a weapon with a bonus modifier and some mods on it you really aren't at a disadvantage to someone that has a perfect rare. The way you play your toon strategically and tactically, especially in the skills/spells dept, will determine how well you do in the game both pve and pvp.
The Acolyte
CKaz
Although I agree with a lot of this, quite frankly its just saying 'OK I got my weapon the way I want it, now I mod it'. Why do you get a max dmg weapon and toss the rest? Because you'd just look to upgrade it later.
That's a big part of this. Why seek out something to keep re-seeking out and upgrading ya know? Not like lower is useless, but when trying to maximize you maximize, right?
15% may not always mean more than 14% but it's certainly safe to say 14% isnt gonna to end up with more right? If you're eeking out a little more, people like to eek.
I actually understand people going for that percent more than the health mods though. +28/+29/+30? yeah I'll save the cash thanks (and rather have the +5 armor to boot). But same thing, if the goal is the top why toy.
And some of these crazy buggers have a LOT of gold.
That's a big part of this. Why seek out something to keep re-seeking out and upgrading ya know? Not like lower is useless, but when trying to maximize you maximize, right?
15% may not always mean more than 14% but it's certainly safe to say 14% isnt gonna to end up with more right? If you're eeking out a little more, people like to eek.
I actually understand people going for that percent more than the health mods though. +28/+29/+30? yeah I'll save the cash thanks (and rather have the +5 armor to boot). But same thing, if the goal is the top why toy.
And some of these crazy buggers have a LOT of gold.
Nater
Going off topic a LITTLE, you have to remember the item stats mean more or less depending on if you're PvP or PvE.
15%, +30 HP, Sup Absorb, Sup Vigor, etc all become more valuable in PvE in my opinion.
You have to look at the damage over time to appreciate a Superior Absorb rune.
When you have 10 baddies pounding on you, -1 each hit adds up over the course of a battle, and can mean the difference between you having 100 hp left at the end of the fight, or death. Sans healing of course.
As for +HP Pommels and such, hitpoints are going to be much more useful in PvP if I'm not mistaken(I don't PvP much at all), while +Armor is going to be more useful in PvE. I'm assuming you take more direct damage armor ignoring attacks in PvP.
Anyways, my warrior feels like a whole new character after he got Sup Vigor & Absorbs. PvE is just easier all around.
15%, +30 HP, Sup Absorb, Sup Vigor, etc all become more valuable in PvE in my opinion.
You have to look at the damage over time to appreciate a Superior Absorb rune.
When you have 10 baddies pounding on you, -1 each hit adds up over the course of a battle, and can mean the difference between you having 100 hp left at the end of the fight, or death. Sans healing of course.
As for +HP Pommels and such, hitpoints are going to be much more useful in PvP if I'm not mistaken(I don't PvP much at all), while +Armor is going to be more useful in PvE. I'm assuming you take more direct damage armor ignoring attacks in PvP.
Anyways, my warrior feels like a whole new character after he got Sup Vigor & Absorbs. PvE is just easier all around.
The Primeval King
If 15% is the same as 14%, then why would Arena Net make the 15%? It has to be doing at least a little more damage than the 14%.. Maybe an axe attack does 65 with 14%, and 65.7 with the 15%, but the .7 extra damage isnt shown because they use whole numbers?
Retribution X
15%, because for bows and axes, 15% does 1 more dmg than 14%. (or 13% for that matter...)
LifeInfusion
1 whole damage, o wow.
I think 1 damage is not worth the heavy sticker price.
If the deviation of 13 to 15% is only like 2-4 damage at max, then what is the point of farming hours just to get a 15%.
I think 1 damage is not worth the heavy sticker price.
If the deviation of 13 to 15% is only like 2-4 damage at max, then what is the point of farming hours just to get a 15%.
Warchicken
I think I'll stick to selling 15>50 weapons for ridiculous prices guys 
In any case, are we sure that the game rounds at all? Maybe it actually keeps those fractions and adds them up and we simply don't see it because it's simpler to display -2 damage than -2.86.
In any case, are we sure that the game rounds at all? Maybe it actually keeps those fractions and adds them up and we simply don't see it because it's simpler to display -2 damage than -2.86.
RotteN
you can get most weapons in a 15>50 version from a collector or a weapon crafter, and hell, that'll even be cheaper than your 14>50.
why take the chance ? if you can get 15, take 15 ...
why take the chance ? if you can get 15, take 15 ...
Lady Cream
and when you think than most of the buyers don't customize their "uber godly 15>50 req7 even if I use 16" weapon... in fact, most of the times a "noob white" weapon customized will do ALWAYS with no negative effect at least 5% more damage.
oscarmk
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Originally Posted by Lady Cream
and when you think than most of the buyers don't customize their "uber godly 15>50 req7 even if I use 16" weapon... in fact, most of the times a "noob white" weapon customized will do ALWAYS with no negative effect at least 5% more damage.
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Ensign
A 15% more damage weapon does deal more than a 14% more damage weapon. On certain mobs you can't tell the difference because the critical hits round the same way, but against others the difference is distinct. There are likely boosts on certain non-critical hit numbers as well, though those are difficult to observe.
Peace,
-CxE
Peace,
-CxE
Retribution X
i tested it on lvl 21 sand drakes, using wild. niether were cusomized. both were 25 dmg.
Akhilleus
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Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
I think 1 damage is not worth the heavy sticker price.
If the deviation of 13 to 15% is only like 2-4 damage at max, then what is the point of farming hours just to get a 15%. |
again, its perfection.
and on top of my point another valid one was made, if you KNOW that one day you could want a 15% weapon, why spend a pretty decent amount ona 14%? over time you'd technically be saving yourself money by forgoing the 14% and going directly for 15%...
but for the average guild player who cant really afford 15%...14% is far, far better, simply because it gets you roughly the same effectivness for a drastically reduced cost.
it should also be noted that the higher damage you do, the more the added %s will matter, as they give a higher bonus off a higher base.
ubermancer
I did my own testing (Im trying a bit more exhaustive approach to reverse engineering the damage equations then Son Of Rah used - though I do not doubt his equations at all), all of which were done adjacent to the target (no height difference) with 12 marksmanship, max dmg bows. 14% and 15% vs level 2 Ressurect Gargoyles deal the EXACT SAME DAMAGE.
Now this is interesting because at 12 marks, a clean 15-28 bow does, on a crit (and you usually crit) 108 damage. Youd think each percentage would increase the damage by at LEAST 1 point. But no.
14% and 15% deal the exact same damage... even when sundering activates. Even when using powershot (and you hit for over 140 points). Even when using elemental strings vs a test mob with +40 armor vs elemental (ressurect gargoyles)
This doesnt mean 14 and 15 are identical, but rather the damage mod is being applied to a number, which is then rounded (probably to X decimal places), and sent to the next part of the equation, perhaps the bit which checks it against armor. (ie, damage mod is not applied last)
Now this is interesting because at 12 marks, a clean 15-28 bow does, on a crit (and you usually crit) 108 damage. Youd think each percentage would increase the damage by at LEAST 1 point. But no.
14% and 15% deal the exact same damage... even when sundering activates. Even when using powershot (and you hit for over 140 points). Even when using elemental strings vs a test mob with +40 armor vs elemental (ressurect gargoyles)
This doesnt mean 14 and 15 are identical, but rather the damage mod is being applied to a number, which is then rounded (probably to X decimal places), and sent to the next part of the equation, perhaps the bit which checks it against armor. (ie, damage mod is not applied last)
Retribution X
no. the numbers are ALWAYS rounded DOWN. even if it's .9 dmg, it's not 1 dmg.
Red Sonya
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Originally Posted by Retribution X
no. the numbers are ALWAYS rounded DOWN. even if it's .9 dmg, it's not 1 dmg.
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Oh I will tell you what makes a big difference though fighting sand wurms. EBON grips. WOW! Earth grips beat the crap outta Sand Wurms vs Fire, Cold and Lightning.
Retribution X
it always has been for me.
Were they BOTH ebon? did you use wild blow?
Were they BOTH ebon? did you use wild blow?
LifeInfusion
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Originally Posted by Red Sonya
EBON grips. WOW! Earth grips beat the crap outta Sand Wurms vs Fire, Cold and Lightning.
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I guess it goes with the saying fight fire with fire...
Iceman2
what about +34% and 35% damage after you custimized them
Red Sonya
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Originally Posted by Retribution X
it always has been for me.
Were they BOTH ebon? did you use wild blow? |
Akhilleus
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Originally Posted by Red Sonya
Oh no during the test I used standard weapons no mods (except for hp fortitude mods) and no skills with just +13%>50 and +15%>50, just hitting. But, when I,m totally soloing wurms I use ebon weapons. There's no difference in damage between the 13%> and the 15%> sorry but they don't round down.
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imagine the base is 15 dmg with 13% and 15.9 with 15%...you will still be doing 15 damage.
it does occasionally make a difference, anyone who sais other wise, is an idiot, period. however, the vast majority of the time the performance is the same. this simple fact will, however, not increase the value of 13% weapons, i guerentee it.
the main reason people buy 15% to begin with is to get perfection and or bragging rights, it has nothing to do with that fact that only 1% of the time (a number i pulled outta my ass) will that extra 1-2% make a difference.