100 blades

Im all for change however it comes.
To be honest in sword build its permanently in my skill set. I tried dragon slash but it didnt really boost my adrenaline. I find as my only energy consuming skill (other than hard rez) its very spammable and depending what Im wielding, zealous, vamp, furious or elemental it always seems to do the job. I guess generally running through the game with heroes or henchies has made me naive but Im never left wanting anything more from it. Just happy using it to spike my adrenalin/health/energy back up with.
So any positive changes are only going to help I guess. Oh and I promise to check out some of these other sword elites, I mean I did take the time to cap all the elites :P

there is not much to 'check out' quivering blade is only so so (especially compared to cleave) and crippling slash does not come close to being game breaking... the swordsmand doesnt have much to work with in pvp...and I'm sure the pve'ers would love HB even more if it got a buff...

skills are not balanced for pve however.... so the effect of this skill attacking more than one foe is only there if the other team (pvp) bunches up... which is usually not smart anyway.... so I dont think it will increase the adrenaline all that much so that you could go..... HB, GASH, HB, GASH ,HB, GASH .... it would be basically a sun and moon slash every 5 seconds with energy cost... probably compareable to having an IAS skill on as far as damage goes...

This would make it suck only slightly less, considering the times you'll actually attack 2 or more foes in PvP are rare. Just look at scythes. Those are supposed to be AoE, but only fools ball up when they face a team with Dervishes. Hundred Blades would suffer from the same thing. Then you have essentially added +6 dmg to both swings. yay? think not.
Too bad balancing is not done with retarded mobs in mind who ball up all the time. It's done with GvG in mind against good players who will spread out.
Actually, the entire concept of an AoE melee attack is stupid. Melees are built for single target DPS, not AoE. If you want AoE don't play warrior.
To be honest, it would be quite overpowered in adrenaline spikes. You'd be able to solo spike someone down if you have some caster assist. (any idea how much dmg a double Final Thrust does?)
A lesser version of it, like
5e 10r
'elite stance: for 1...15 seconds you have an additional 5.....40% to strike twice with your attack skills'
You'd be able to keep this up permanently at moderate swordmanship. You'd also get rid of the useless AoE component of this skill. A 40% chance to 'dual strike' doesn't seem overpowered to me, especially since it's too low to rely on while spiking.
Slot machines are a bad thing. Random skill effects are retarded. Desperation Blow is only used because it has that stupid synergy with Fear Me and Steady Stance.

Crippling Slash shouldn't even be called an elite.

Why, you ask?

[card]hamstring[/card] [card]crippling slash[/card]

I'd rather use Hamstring and take a real elite.

My vote is still for bleeding on target foe...it would not be overpowered to cause bleeding every 5 seconds (just about the same time with sever)... as to the adrenaline gain for gash....you would need 4 enemies (8 hits...25 pts of adr each hit) bunched up when you use HB for gash (160pts) to charge instantly...(you would be at 150 pts with 3)


http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Adrenaline

10 energy vs. 4 adrenaline hmmmmm....
But hamstring is a sucky skill to begin with so you're right. The only use it has is the deadly Harmstorm



That harmstorm remark was sarcasm

Only if all your thinking about is calculated PvP. Random factors help make things 'not the same' all the time at a core level. Don't you ever get bored of 'perfect' variables in PvP? I sure do. Granted I admit wouldn't use it in a serious PvP match (at least not for the conditions) but it would be way more fun to use in more casual forms of play. I mean, fun is what we are after right? It holds far more value than 'Fit 100 into vast matrix-math, quaternion, quasi-cosmic battle calculation'...

It's one of the reasons I'd like to see the 'critical strike' mechanic work on spells. Do you feel lucky? You get the idea...

Hmm just change the skill name to: 'Two Blades'.
Or more seriously, maybe make it hit four times but increase the recharge so it could be used as a good spiking tool. Or with the dual strike stance idea, make the chance to double hit work on both normal attacks and attack skills.

2 blades is a much better name.
Here's another idea. If this will be an elite that causes bleeding, at least make the condition ignore immunities. That means you can still Gash on a minion or Mursaat. This would help dampen one of the biggest sword warrior weaknesses.

The way I see it is like this. Triple Chop is a great PvE elite. Hundred Blades is not.
How can we fix this? Well let's compare the two. Triple Chop strikes all adjacent foes to you. Hundred Blades is basically Twin Moon Sweep with elite status; only foes adjacent to the target.
Triple Chop deals +42 damage at 16 axe mastery.
Hundred Blades deals 0.

The solution is to make Hundred Blades add 5-21 damage per hit, 21 @ 16 swordsmanship.
This would total the +42 damage from Triple Chop.
Overpowered? Hardly. Swords have lower crits than axes. They also have overall lower damage than axes. Even a +25 Hundred Blades would be OK because of this.
What about the AoE? Well to balance it with Triple Chop, changing HB to all foes adjacent to you would be a bit too much. You'd gain more than 2x the adrenaline of a comparable elite.
So make it all foes adjacent and in front of you. Basically, 180* instead of 360*.
With these changes in place, HB would still be a little weaker than Triple Chop. There's a few ways to change that.

-more bonus damage, like stated earlier
-keep the recharge lower than Triple Chop
-add unconditional bleeding



So this is what I'm thinking.. here's an example.

Hundred Blades
Type: Elite Sword Attack
Cost: 5 energy
Recharge: 8 seconds

Swing twice at target foe and adjacent foes in front of you. Each attack that hits strikes for +5....17 damage and causes unconditional bleeding.


These are my thoughts on Hundred Blades.
I also like the idea of making it a buffing skill that can work with attack skills. That's kinda neat. It should be 1/4 sec cast in that case, though. Or instant, like Dolyak Signet.

You could also change Hundred Blades to a shout, like "Find Their Weakness!". Make the recharge short enough that at 14 swordsmanship, you could keep it on 2 allies at once. That would be hoooot.
An alternative to double striking could be to cause armor ignoring damage instead. Example:

Hundred Blades
Type: Elite Shout
Cost: 5 energy
Recharge: 10 seconds

For 1....21 seconds, target ally has a 1....50% chance to have their attacks strike for an additional 15....75 damage to all adjacent foes.


Of course, the alternative is to give up and make the dang skill non elite. Increase the AoE to 180 degrees and lower the recharge to 4 seconds. Then make Final Thrust the elite, cost 4-5 strikes of adrenaline, and cause deep wound. I know my numbers aren't as balanced as Ensign would make them, but bear with me. I'm sure the skill descriptions could be tweaked, but I feel my proposed changes to Hundred Blades would make it finally worthy of elite status.

/signed
i rarely see warrios use this skills
obviously,it needs a buff

i like your idea, i would prefer it like that

/Signed

Some people find playing to win fun.

http://www.sirlin.net/Features/featu...ToWinPart1.htm

Sure, it would be fun for a short while, but wouldn't you get bored after a while from losing all the time because you gimp yourself with a suboptimal build? Wouldn't you switch back to a good elite after a day or two if you kept losing? And you will keep losing because you are using a suboptimal build. If you know what a skill is going to do, you can focus your build around it, making a better build than you could make with something unreliable. After all, Desperation Blow is not used for the conditional effect: it's used for the part that you're sure is going to happen: a self knockdown giving you infinite adrenaline and a load of energy.
You're forgetting the damage comes in two packages, making it much better against enemies using protective spirit. The opposite is true for Shield of Absorption and Shielding Hands, but those are hardly relevant.
This is not to say it's a bad idea, because it isn't. It's just something to point out.

I like this one but i would lower damage on the first strike a bit and make the second strike cause bleeding for 10..15 secs.

Hm... [wiki]Hundred Blades[/wiki]? Currently the skill acts like unlinked... I hate linked attacks acting like unliked.

They could just make it more like its name:
- More hits fit the name.
- Conditions do not fit the name.
- Since there would be tons of hits, they should follow the 'lots of quick hits deal less damage' rule.

Result:

Sword Attack. Attack 2..10 times target foe, and all foes adjacent to target foe, for a maximum of 10 foes. Each hit will make 25% of normal damage.

The minimum damage with perfect sword would be:
2*15..22= (30..44) /4=(7..11) Fitting Swordmanship 0.

With Swordsmanship 12 and a single target:
10*15..22= (150..220) /4= (37..55) effective damage per foe.

The maximum (swordsmanship 12, 10 hits to 10 enemies=100 hits):
(37..55)*10=(370..550) Total damage dealt by the skill, that fits correctly an elite skill.

I think this would make the skill work more like its name...
Remember that this skill is ment to build adrenaline and trigger on hit effects more than to deal damage.

So at 16 swordsmanship you would attack them 13 times, for a total of ~400 dmg from a single attack

Can you say overpowered?

It must be elite, or the IW mesmers will suddenly become viable!!!!! O wait. No they won't. Because IW sucks. Yeah, that makes more sense. Anet, buff this frigging skill to make it on par with Triple Chop at least...

Nope, the maximum ammout of hits would be always 100 and to each enemy would be alwasy 10, no matter the points in Swordmanship.

2,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,6,7,8 ,9 ,10,10,10,10,10
0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16

100 blades, 100 hits.

Once you reach that maximum, increasing Swordmanship won'td o anything for this skill, but increasing critical like it currently does.

Alas, the 25% damage means "damage/4" not "damage-25%", so it would be impossible to deal such damage you say to a single target.
And never forget, in PvP it's almost impossible to get to 10 adjacent enemies (only in a very absurd 12vs12 or agains Minions this could happen) and in PvE, enemies will start to run away in the second hit.

None of the Sword Elites are spectactular, Dragon Slash is the only one which does significant damage as well as offering an additional adrenaline return.

Bleeding isn't appropriate, it is made to hit several foes repeatedly. The issue here is the overestimated value of AoE damage overall, it is overstated in Elementist and Dervish as well, this is an issue which should be addressed throught the game, Adjacent foe damage should not cost so much, using AoE attacks is a way to overcome groups, if enemies are taking AoE damage on several units than they are falling victim to poor character placement or group enhancement limitations. Abilities which attack nearby, area and earshot can understandably require some additional cost, but Multiple target damage is a situation enabled by good enemy selection and bad enemy character placement, not and additional cost.

Seeing as Sun and Moon Strike is harder to build up, but is unblockable, without being an elite, HB could use a slight buff. HB has a significant advantage in that it strikes a foe and adjacent foes, and is energy based, meaning it can build up adrenaline very quickly for other attacks if it hits several foes, but since multiple target effects are an advantage to good target selection, and bad enemy placement, perhaps HB should strike 3 times.

Adding additional damage basicly makes it death blossom with better adrenaline return and no combo requirements, that is too powerful, and adding bleeding on a multi hit attack is too powerful as well, multiple hits including conditions are Assassin features, not Warriors.

The issue here is that it is elite, it should have a significant impact. It is alright if it cost alot to include a significant effect, if HB strikes 3, even 4 times but cost 10 or 15 energy, it would be alright, a powerful spike of repeated hits and adrenaline return. I think 4 strikes is broken because it basicly returns more adrenaline than Dragon slash by hitting just one target and is energy based, maybe Dragon Slash needs a lower cost and HB needs a higher cost and more strikes, I would appreciate 3 strikes for 10 energy, and a 8-10 second recharge.

It isn't like Sword Warriors don't have Elites to use either though, there are plenty of powerful Strength elites which work with swords for powerful output. And Tactics includes some powerful counter attacks which only work with swords, it isn't the highlight of a sword warrior, but reducing damage wile dealing additional damage is useful.

But anyway, back to the real issue, AoE damage is overestimated, that is where the issue lies, and that is what I have been trying to hit home since I started playing GW, All these weak, overpriced and under effective AoE effects make entire skill types poor options. This is a broad spectrum issue, and it isn't going to be addressed with just HB and not with the rest of the skills and characters, Anet needs to offer better AoE use and effects throught the game.

Guild Wars doesn't work that way. Every skill is linear. It'd either have to be 1..8.10 or 1..10.12.
Ok so my bad about the dmg. You'd only deal 100 dmg, or 1000 vs. 10 opponents (which is never going to happen anyway).
Agreed, it's a little less overpowered that way.

100dmg? Geez? You read what people write?
hatever it is, the damage is not the real deal with this skill, but the number of hits.

Making it Unblockable could be enough too, but all warrior unblockables are tactics-linked, but one, that is Streght-linked... don't know if that could be possible.

So according to your logic because the skill bypasses Protective Spirit by dishing out damage in 2 waves it shouldn't be done? Thats like saying Sun and Moon Slash, Dual Shot, Forked Arrow and all Assassin *DUAL* Attacks should be nerfed. Yet all are effected quite alot by Shield of Absorption and Shielding Hands... like you said, but this effect should be ignored because obviously nobody uses Shield of Absorption...

There was really no point in pointing it out because it was completely worthless. As far as PvP is concerned the chances of you hitting more than 1 foe with 100 Blades are almost non-existant outside of piled up spirits. I can hardly see top guilds running this skill if it got buffed with a slight damage bonus to make it slightly more than completely worthless outside of solo farming.

I've been saying this skill needed a buff for a while now.

Though in my opinion it doesn't need a dmg increase. All I've ever wanted was that it causes bleeding... thats it.

/signed for causes bleeding, no dmg increase

No, I'm saying Protective Spirit is a common protection spell against Adrenaline Spikes, which is likely where this skill in its buffed form would be used, if it were used at all. Much more common than Shielding Hands and Shield of Absorption.
Why is that the same as saying dual attacks, dual shot etc. should be nerfed? I say it's something to consider when you're balancing this skill, like they obviouly did when creating Dual Shot, with its 25% penalty, Forked arrow with its conditional, and the relatively low damage on Dual Attacks, outside of Blades of Steel.

I don't think Hundred Blades should cause bleeding. Because seriously, reading Hundred should imply damage increase or just a hell of a lot of hits.
Hundred Blades does not read Bleeding Hundred Blades.
And don't compare this to Dismember and Eviscerate because the definition of those are basically chopping something up.
Instead of adding conditions to the skill which seems beyond ridiculous power wise, why not just have it be a stance ender with a little bit of power?

Example
Hit Target foe and others in front of you and deal 1...17 more damage twice, and target foe's stance ends. This attack cannot be "blocked" or "evaded".

If you think about it, a hundred blades is basically un-blockable and un-evadable. Also if you were to think about it, wouldn't a hundred blades kind of end any stance?

Or you can try to achieve a hundred blades, or at least, closer than two...

Example
Hit target foe and foes in front of you 2...4 times. Each sword attack deals 15% less damage.

Of course this is like the ultimate adrenaline builder, maybe better than "To the Limit!"

Then there's always the option of completely changing the attack into a skill, I'll use the example I posted earlier.

Example
Skill. For 1...10 seconds, each attack you do hits all foes in front of you twice. This skill takes 7...5 seconds longer to recharge for each attack skill used and also deals 30% less damage when an attack skill is used.

Of course this isn't an attack anymore and people may not like that...

Then people have suggested it hits everybody adjacent to you.

Example
Hit target foe and all adjacent foes twice.

But that may not be such a big improvement. For in things like PvP, heh, when was the last time in the arena you were completely surrounded by a billion guys? Well, four people aren't a billion.

But now, come to think of it. Since people have complained about this skill for such a long time, why hasn't it been changed yet? It's like Quick Shot, everybody says it sucks, but ANET never improved it.
Is it because Hundred Blades actually has more ups and downs and people just like saying downs because they're way easier to find? I bet ANET has a good reason why they've never improved it even after so many people hate it currently as seen here.
If ANET has chosen not to change this skill, there probably is a really good way to use this skill therefore it not being needed to be buffed. I would put some money down on the adrenaline build up you can do with this attack a part of the reason why they haven't buffed this skill.
But yeah, if no buff ever happened yet, there'll probably be none.

@ gameshoes... I dont think I want another stance elite... the sword line is suffering from un-use in most pv (and pve)... I dont think another stance would help that.... what we need are some worth while attack skills...



does anyone here observe pvp battles? the trend has been for some time to see warrior hammer and axe builds (spike)... but even when the guild takes a pressure build the sword warrior is nowhere to be found....after 2 hrs of GVG observing last night..... nothing

Hundred blades need buff, yes...just make the AoE a little bigger.

The currect "adjacent to foe" is just way too small. Note, it is "adjacent to foe" and not "adjacent to target foe". The area is actually smaller than [skill=Death's Blossom]

Heck...we should remove "adjacent to foe" all together.

It could ude a small buff...maybe more damage or something but I use it all the time for nothing more than to help build adrenaline for my more powerful attacks..if you use enraging charge and 100 blades and use them at the correct times you can have like 4 adrenaline skills that take 8 hits to build up and keep them up almost all the time

Alright. Everyone back on topic. If you don't like what someone says, then use the report button to get a moderator's attention.

I would still like to see the skill add a few more hits per target. Afterall, it is ONE HUNDRED blades, not TWOBLADESPERADJACENTFOE. :]

Or... what if the skill was changed to be a stance or skill (as opposed to an attack skill) that made all of your regular hits attack twice for a period of time? If this seems too strong, just add a cooldown time inbetween possible restances/reskills.

Why not really have it be "hundred" blades. Have it hit an additional time for each recharging attack skill. It would make it unique (only skill that gives more than 2 hits in one attack) and make it more usable. Only problem is that adrenal skills don't have a recharge, but you get my idea. MORE HITS!

Come on... you can't give it more hits. Giving it more hits just means it'll get abused with massive buffs to get a ridiculous amount of damage from it. Its either extra damage, bleeding or both.

Agreed with that. Even if you gave it 10 hits who would all hit for 5 on average, people would just take a vamp sword and order of pain/the vampire for massive dmg.
To anyone who was offended by my previous post, and appearantly people were because it was deleted, I apologize.

Indeed. Apologies to anyone who was offended.


On a side note an 'extra hit' mechanic might be interesting. Perhaps not 10 or anything insane like that but maybe something like 4? Like you say, more hits will mean abuse of damage mods right..?

4 inherent AD gain
20 life-steal from vamp
4 energy from zealous
8 potential AD from furious

That's from the inherent weapon mods. I guess the bigger picture is the additional mods.

Nightmare Weapon is probably the biggest threat. Potentially 159 life-steal on top of anything else you add.

Splinter Weapon isn't that much of a big deal (unless people/mobs bunch) though the damage is raw, al ignoring.

Brutal Weapon is a potential +64 raw damage.

Mark of Pain falls into the same boat as Splinter but would result in a potential 168 raw damage to adjacent foes.

Cunjure skills a potential 88 elemental damage.


I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of. Dunno how big a deal this would be or if it's even worth it, but it might be interesting.

I think the reason people are trying to come up with other things to do with it besides +damage is because that's the easiest thing to do with it to make it better. The easiest thing for people to factor into their builds. However with a number of skills that already do that it's not the most interesting thing you could do, and it certainly wouldn't be unique.

You can make the skill do not trigger some effects, so number of hits is not really a problem.

I fully agree.. causing bleeding would be great with a % chance of bonus damage. A nice mob would net n strikes of adren for Sever Artery and within another slash or two be ready for Final Thrust. Regaurdless of all of our opinions, they definately need to improve the meek-leet skill HB..

Raven

why not simply change to all adjacent foes instead of foes adjacent to target foe.
still hits twice.

Hundred Blades [E]
E: 5
R: 8
Swing twice at target foe and foes adjacent to your target. The first attack causes Bleeding and the second causes Deep Wound.

Lower the cool down to 5 or 6. The current can often take a bit longer than 8 seconds to recover, despite it saying it takes 8. This has been reported as a bug and still has not been fixed.

Allow it to hit 360 degrees, much like Cyclone Axe or Triple Chop. After all, watching the animation for Hundred Blades, you clearly spin around 360 degrees in a clockwise motion.

Swinging twice at a target foe and foes adjacent to your target are fine.

This would be a very minor buff and doesn't screw around with the elite any by adding any effects like Bleeding, Deep Wound, etc.

I agree with Tarun, I think the recharge should be reduced to 4 of 5 seconds, and hit all foes around you twice.

That would just Buff the skill for some intense farming. We should aim more for PvP, since that is what the skill balancing is (mostly) based around.

I think adding more hits is a great idea. Sure, the effects of other skills stack with it, but that requires teamwork and may even break some of the common warrior secondary professions we see now. Plus, instead of adding extra damage to the skill, the skill would be more of a secondary "utility" attack skill just to power some adrenaline. I feel it would add a nice variety to the common (axe mastery esp.) skills of "QuickAddMoreDamage!"