Orison Hate! Wtf???

With Healer's Boon Orison becomes a cheap, quick, effective spike heal. Otherwise if you must run a primarily Healing Prayers build, its faily a staple. IMHO there are better options, namely the Protective Prayers line with slight speccing into Healing.

The other thing is when using Dwayna's Kiss when some is hexed or even not throw in veil and you heal more.It is still a good skill for Prophecey holders only and those who are to cheap to buy some new skills.

Hmm…

If you’re part of a backline then you have another monk—probably a prot monk—throwing protection spells on characters as they agro or take damage. Then Dwayna’s becomes really appealing.

If you’re running a monk/rit backline, then you probably should have gone prot to begin with and leave the heals to your partner.

This is an interesting discussion because heal over time is obviously more from Orison than other self heal spells for an HBoon. You have to cast twice as much to make it work that way, but it is capable of healing more than Ethereal does, so it’s a tossup for me which of those two skills would be a primary self-heal in an HB bar.

If you’re getting pressured solo (umm…say it’s a 5/3 split, you’re other monk is back in base addressing something) Orison might save you where Ethereal’s recharge and possible interrupt would hurt you. Healing touch is less utility than these two spells, while word is slow on recharge too.

What’s the better self heal? In PvE, probably Ethereal. Spike is less dangerous there so you can just throw it off if you take agro and otherwise stay in the backline, kite, get protted by your partner and toss it and word to repair the damage quickly and to max with just two spells.

In PvP though…you can’t really afford Heal Other and Dwayna’s—two spells that don’t self heal—on your bar. Monks take pressure in PvPs. They need a lot of their bar to be able to not just heal the team, but themselves.

Okay…little math test (owowowow). Lets say we have a GvG monk HBoon. He has a bar of

HBoon,
Heal Other
Signet of Rejuvination for energy
GoLE
Heal Party
Dismiss condi.
Holy Veil
And one of the three other self heals Healing Touch, Ethereal Light, or Orison. Our monk has 14 and 12 in Healing Prayers and Divine Favor, everything else is in prot for dismiss.

Ethereal; 95
Healing touch: 56
Orison: 66

Apply Boons +50% from Healer’s Boon

E: 142.5, lets say 143
Ht: 84
O: 99

Add 38 for DF at 12

E: 181
Ht: 160 (double DF)
O: 137

Over a period of one minute, these spells can cast:

E: around 11 times
Ht: around 11 times
O: around 24 times

So…the heal over time for Ethereal in one minute of spam on recycle is 1991. Healing Touch is 1760. And orison is…3288. So for over twice as much energy, you get almost twice as much healing as Healing touch and over ¾ the healing of Ethereal if you can actually spam all of them for a minute without stopping to regen.

But that’s not quite right either. Lets give us 2 heal parties every 30 seconds using our GoLE. Four heal parties takes out 12 seconds form our spam. 2 GoLEs takes another 2 seconds. And we’re spamming here, ignoring energy right now, so we’re also casting…lets use a sig. 1 second for Signet of rejuvenation, because I like that on a HBoon with all the interrupt rangers out there right now. Casting that on recharge, that’s another 6 or so seconds of time we’re not casting our self heal. We’re not facing a spike team, so we didn’t need heal other and the other team is condi pressure so we let the RC monk take all the heat (poor RC…)

Anyway, that’s 20 seconds where we won’t be casting our primary self heal.

E: 7.2 lets say 8 casts
Ht: 7.2 lets say 8 casts
O: 16 casts

The healing over time is:

E:1448
Ht: 1280
O: 2192

Cost for Ethereal and Healing Touch is 40 energy. Cost for Orison is 80. You get almost twice as much from Orison as you do from healing touch. It’s starting to look bad for Alesia’s favorite skill. You get a little over a quarter the amount of HP from orison as you do from Ethereal…but for twice the price. Can a monk actually afford to do that with orison?

Lets add in energy. With HBoon, you have three pips of energy for 3 energy every second. Over 60 seconds, we’ve cast

10 energy for GoLes
0 for those free heal parties
signets, 6 also for free and
between 40 to 80 self heal spells for a total 50, 90 total energy over a 60 second period of time.

Lets give this monk 40 energy from her staff and armor. HBoon takes one pip of energy away for 3 pips; 3 energy every 3 seconds according to guildwiki. So in a period of 60 seconds, this monk gets 60 energy from regen instead of the normal 80. With full energy at the start of spamming, that’s a total energy pool of 100 energy. So yes, a monk can afford to spam, for one minute, Orison, GoLE, signets, and any of the three self heals we gave her.

I'm going to ignore all my hard work keeping cast times straight for a minute now.

She would have a 60 extra energy over time from Ethereal or healing touch, allowing for 4 more heal Parties (113x8 players is a heal per cast of 942; total heal over time of 3767) or 6 heal others (293 six times for 1758). For everything that’s costing energy, that’s a range of 3206-5216 heal points over time for Ethereal Light or 3038-5047 for healing touch.

She would have a 20 energy remaining if she carried and spammed Orison. That’s one more heal party or 2 heal others…a range of 2778 to 3134. Then she is out of energy.

I think the winner is Ethereal Light for pure healing. For only a little less heal over time, you can get a lot of healing done, cast a heal party and a few heal others, and still have some energy left over. You could choose not to cast Orison on recharge, reserving it to about half its time and probably get it about as efficient as healing touch, but it just not able to keep up with Ethereal in terms of red bars going up.

If the monk casts only 10 times with orison it reaches the middle range between Ht and Ethereal; that’s a 1370 HP for 50 energy with a reserve of 50 for 3 heal parties or 5 heal others ranging extra heals at 2826 to 1465; a maximum range of 2835 to 4196.

That’s respectable heal over time to single targets with your self target healing spell for Orison. If it only cast 8 times, the same as Ethereal or Healing Touch, its 1096 with a maximum range from extra heal parties or heal others of 2854 to 4843. Orison is not effected by easily interrupts though, so enchant strip spells will not hurt you as much as they would if you were carrying Ethereal. Heal touch, on the other hand, shows a boost to healing if you can't keep you HB up.

Okay. I think I did that right. I hope this helps expand the discussion. I’m still not really sold on any of them. I like them all equally, which is to say I like Reversal of Fortune most

GGs

hmm, wow. you see, whenever i heal, i always have kiss on my bar. i absolutely agree that kiss beats orison, but most healers already have kiss on their bar. now comes orison, fastest recharging heal in the game. next to it is kiss, which most already have. next to it (as a pure heal) is either words of comfort or ethereal light. i tend to not bring words of comfort because i bring dismiss always. ethereal may be the best PvE heal in the game, but it has a 5-second recharge.

again, the only reason orison was made is to have a constant cheap heal that literally never runs out, so u can count on it to be ur main heal. please, try and keep prot outa this.

@melody: thx 4 all the math. =P

now i see why orison sucks. its because everyone is against healing prayers in general. "Prot Prayers FTW." and if i start a thread on that, im gonna get flamed llike hell. mmm, maybe they should delete healing prayers and leave that to the rits.

I don't know what you're talking about when you say people claim that orison sucks. I sometimes (not often, but depending on how I feel) take orison in my LoD/Infuse or HB bar in HA, and I haven't gotten any complaints from any of the r9/10+ groups I go with. Maybe they're just confident I know what I'm doing, I dunno. The only people who are probably crazy demanding are those r3 scrubs that think they know everything and tell you stuff they think is true.

And regarding that long post with all the math and numbers...
Maybe orison isn't as good on paper with all those calculations, but monking is not all about the math. It's about how the person using those skills feel about it. But yes, I agree there are much better alternatives to orison.

Ranks have nothing to do with it.... offcourse a rank 3 can know what he's talking about. Not all r3's are noobs, dude r3's can own rank 9+.

But besides that, what holy allready said, you cant bring monking into maths. Its not like your going to spam orison every single time it recharges. You have to use the other skills on that bar of yours aswell. But I stick to my point that Restorers > Heal monks.

If u have a heal monk, you have to spam skills more often imo. Because when you see a party member taking heavy damage, like +/- 90/100 dps(maybe a bit on the high side, but I dont really care xD). you cant keep up with orison. With HB you have a nice large heal, but you'll run out of energy faster if u want to keep that party member taking heavy damage + your other party members alive. If u use a Prot build + [skill]gift of health[/skill], u'll be saving more energy. Lets take the same example, a party member is taking heavy dmg (again 90/100 dps) and he/she has 500 health, u prot that person. Thats 10 energy, more then orison. But for +/- 22 sec that party member can only lose 50 health from a single attack. GoH heals for 96 health at only 9 heal prayers(without the health gain from DF). In this way you dont have to spam away 5e every 2 seconds. And you dont have to keep using your skills on that target alone. You can leave your eyes of of him for a few sec to heal some other players, even if there only at 80% health.


Don't know if I made my point right xD, dont know how to explain some things.

Btw, this is just my opinion offcourse, just wanted to tell what I think about healing in general.

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But…I wasn’t trying to show anything like that at all! The point I thought I made was that orison may make a better single target heal under pressure, but the overall healing to a group is less than other healing prayers skills. Healing Prayers could still use a little buff for the healing they do per cast, but they don’t suck! HBoons and Holy Haste made them really fast so they can react to all this direct damage we get now. And Infuse, LoD, and Gift of Health are really good spells too! And Healer’s Coventant! HCsmiters are naughty! They can spam just as long as the old AoE smiters, but they actually get to PICK their TARGET! Healing prayers don’t suck. You take that back…

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