"Emergent Complexity" skill system..how will this change the gameplay - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Rhedd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

You ever have to clean up after a Moa bird?

True Solunastra [SLA] Profession: Moa Wrangler

30 Mar 2007 at 04:48 - 121

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Don't mess with red, boi!

I didn't really mean it like that, you know.

I'm just saying, if you like what you hear, say so now, and if you dislike what you hear, say so now.

I'm simply fighting the common statement that if you're happy, speak up, but if you're not, take a chill pill, sit back, and wait.

That is the path to DOOOM! ^_^

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

30 Mar 2007 at 04:59 - 122

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhedd

I didn't really mean it like that, you know.

I'm just saying, if you like what you hear, say so now, and if you dislike what you hear, say so now.

I'm simply fighting the common statement that if you're happy, speak up, but if you're not, take a chill pill, sit back, and wait.

That is the path to DOOOM! ^_^

Oh, I'm just having fun. Did it really come off as kind of asshole-ish??? Whoops.

Rhedd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

You ever have to clean up after a Moa bird?

True Solunastra [SLA] Profession: Moa Wrangler

30 Mar 2007 at 05:07 - 123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Oh, I'm just having fun. Did it really come off as kind of asshole-ish??? Whoops.

Not really. My post was just the sort of thing that people often take the wrong way, so I wanted to make sure people didn't.

There's a fine line between explaining that my opinion is founded on experience, and sounding like I'm just bragging. ^_^

The Ernada

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

30 Mar 2007 at 05:30 - 124

It didnt sound like bragging. Only an asshole would think it did.

And yes I agree with Rhedd, there's a difference between ranting and whining and expressing constructive criticism....as long as you understand that nothing is concrete yet and things can change. Afterall, ANET does listen to input.

tayos

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

The Frozen North

United Union

P/Rt

30 Mar 2007 at 05:58 - 125

I'm very interested in what exactly they mean through it, and not just everyone else's interpretation on what it might be. I will wait patiently for a clearer definition to emerge, rather than just some really neat ideas that came up and are worth mentioning as potential features.

I personally really enjoy reading skills, but can understand that its pretty frustrating to the impatient (which is a pretty darn big chunk of the gaming population), and another method might bring in more players. For sure though, I love playing some of the wacky skills very few loved (ie. Auspicious Incantation) mostly because the descriptions were intimidating, and because they combined with other skills in some neat ways.

Can I still work it on my 28k modem like Prophecies in its early days?

frojack

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

London, UK

Rite Of Passage [RP]

E/Mo

30 Mar 2007 at 08:54 - 126

That's exactly why I always refrain from telegraphing the fact that I work in the industry (and yeah on certain titles).
Fan forums are just that. Fan forums. No single individuals comments should have more weight than the other. Whether your still in school or have a decade of exp, it shouldn't matter. Unless there are Anet employees here it's pretty irrelevant.
Besides I want to post on equal footing with everyone here, not have some 'stigma' attached to my posts. I guess that's just me...

Concerning your assertion about designers: Sure, sing to your hearts content about things you like/dislike (it's not like this hasn't already been going on for the last 2 years), but don't hold your breath with expectation. Especially over almost vacuous content.

To kill a mockingbird? Yeah...

Bowman Artemis

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

Gold Coast, Australia.

Overclockers Australia [OCAU]

30 Mar 2007 at 13:58 - 127

I envision something like this (for example):

Cyclone Axe = +x damage, hits all enemies around you.
Crouch + Cyclone Axe = +x damage (less than cyclone axe standing), 75% chance to cripple each enemy it hits.
Jump + Cyclone Axe = Definite crit if it hits, double miss chance.

Try out the different combos and see what modifiers occur on top of the base skill description.

Onarik Amrak

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2007

Astral Revenants

P/W

30 Mar 2007 at 17:23 - 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowman Artemis

I envision something like this (for example):

Cyclone Axe = +x damage, hits all enemies around you.
Crouch + Cyclone Axe = +x damage (less than cyclone axe standing), 75% chance to cripple each enemy it hits.
Jump + Cyclone Axe = Definite crit if it hits, double miss chance.

Try out the different combos and see what modifiers occur on top of the base skill description.

I was imagining something similar as well.
My thought was Dismember. Crouching can cause cripple, standing can cause weakness and perhaps a jump (read, head shot) may have a chance of causing daze.

Shmanka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

In Your Head

The Brave Will Fall [Nion]

Me/

30 Mar 2007 at 18:13 - 129

Why is Anet changing everything in GW2?...
It's not broken... why fix it?

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

30 Mar 2007 at 18:40 - 130

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

Why is Anet changing everything in GW2?...
It's not broken... why fix it?

They're just doing something new. Is that so bad? Honestly, I'd be pretty bored if it was the same combat system. I want my 50-60$ to be paying for a whole new game, not something recycled.

Omega X

Ninja Unveiler

Join Date: Jun 2005

Louisiana, USA

Boston Guild[BG]

W/Me

30 Mar 2007 at 19:27 - 131

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

Why is Anet changing everything in GW2?...
It's not broken... why fix it?

Actually, the developers says that is broken in a way.

The current GW model is too restrictive (and bloated and complicated according to them) for what they want to do. So GW2 aims to please by revamping everything.

That way, players get what they want and the developers get what they want. Its a win/win situation.

Lonk

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Gwonline Guild [GWO]

N/R

30 Mar 2007 at 22:51 - 132

All of this sounds awesome to me, if it's like how alot of us are thinking it is.

I'd just like to submit that elementalists need a ground freeze move and paragons need a move where they spear the enemy, yell "get over here!" and pull them closer.

clawofcrimson

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Crimson Claw

W/

01 Apr 2007 at 04:57 - 133

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonk

All of this sounds awesome to me, if it's like how alot of us are thinking it is.

I'd just like to submit that elementalists need a ground freeze move and paragons need a move where they spear the enemy, yell "get over here!" and pull them closer.

scorpion FTW

I trust anet... i really do... but at face value, (even though its vague), this statement seems to indicate a dumming down of a perfectly fine skill system that could pave the way for the game we love to be overrun by morons

free mmorpg+easy (wario game) button mashing skill style + awesome everything else= many many adolesent players making the GW community even worse...

I just hope they develop the 'skill' aspect rather than making everything 'easier'

Onarik Amrak

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2007

Astral Revenants

P/W

01 Apr 2007 at 12:31 - 134

I'd say that the community is already overrun by morons... but there's no point in arguing something we already know.

AnnaCloud9

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

Minnesota

Well if you're bored, then you're boring!

R/

01 Apr 2007 at 16:29 - 135

All speculation of course, I am actually excited to see what they come up with.

But ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Of course, it's all hypothetical, but I see no problem with a skill being simplistic, easy to figure out, and yet hard to master. Once you figure out how to use a skill efficently, that one skill will become your baby, and so on. It would become less build-dependant, and more skill-dependant, meaning not just the skill itself, but rather your ability to use the skills.

Finally the children will get the chance to yell at grandma on the other side of the screen for not executing the Gaio Sai Pan move (because it's so easy for a sixth grader), requiring Up+Up+Swing+Kick+Dance at a range of 5 feet about 8 times in a row to defeat the boss, rather than simply yelling at her, "You didn't bring Spoil Victor??!!11!???"

I can just hear it now.

But if the skill system was progressive, much like Ultima Online (yes I played for nearly 5 years), and unlocked skills associated with that skill (say, once you reach a rating of 40, you now have the ability to critical hit), I'd be fine with that. But if I'm suddenly going to have to rely on me watching the keyboard to see if my fingers are in the Gaio Sai Pan position, the mouse for my distance from my oponnent (since Gaio Sai Pan can only be done while 5 feet away AND if you execute the buttons correctly), and the screen (so I can obviously see what I'm doing!) just to knock my opponent over....ishy.

Anyway, have a good rest of the weekend *waves*

Str0b0

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Carolina

N/Me

01 Apr 2007 at 16:50 - 136

I can appreciate what they are trying to accomplish with emergent complexity ,but I t hought that limiting the amount of memorization and reading was accomplished by limiting the number of skills you could actually use at one time. 8 skills, not so bad unless you have the memory of a goldfish, particularly since most people, myself included, arrange them in the bar in such a way that if one skill is dependent on another it comes after that skill in the numerical order, thus saving me the trouble of remembering when it is appropriate to use it. I hope it works because in theory it is cool but in practice I fear what we will end up with is an over simplified and dumbed down version of Guild Wars with a gimped skill system that leaves you with no clear means to advance your skills other than trial and error.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

02 Apr 2007 at 01:41 - 137

AnnaCloud9, a skill having different effects depending on the distance of your foe, and whether you are running, crouching, jumping, etc. while activating the skill is a far cry different than "Up+Up+Swing+Kick+Dance at a range of 5 feet about 8 times in a row". How is my idea the least bit complex?

If anything, it's very similar to FPSs where one weapon, like a rocket launcher, can be used many different ways. If you're near your target, you will recieve splash damage as well, but deal more damage. If you have your target in sights for 3-5 seconds, you lock on and shoot heat-seekers. If you alt-fire, you shoot grenades, which can be bounced off walls, etc. Sounds like a lot of different functions, when it's really simplistic and easy to understand, while hard to master. That's my point.

ManadartheHealer

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Awaiting GW2

W/

02 Apr 2007 at 03:04 - 138

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

If anything, it's very similar to FPSs...

You just lost points with the MMO crowd by comparing it to FPS.

Personally, I would think (hope) there wouldn't be button combinations. I also hope we never see button mashing, the need for twitching (FPS), etc. I doubt they meant for it to be either of these, though

Maybe there would be "hidden" combos, though, like just pouring gasoline on someone would slow them down, and just throwing a match on someone burns them, but together they light the other person on fire. It wouldn't be required (like assassin skills now), and it wouldn't add too much power, but it would open the door for more creative builds if different skills/effects went together.

Or, there's another possibility. Let's say a move has a long cast time, and you move to break the cast time...the move would trigger at half power, have a different effect, backfire, etc. Or maybe moves with casting times would act different if cast while moving, etc.

All I know is I'm keeping an open mind. At this point, since nobody knows anything for sure, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and assume it's cool

tomcruisejr

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

02 Apr 2007 at 03:26 - 139

I think the current problem is that there is no way to turn off the skill description that pops when you move the mouse pointer over the skill.

With those pesky skill description windows that pop up, players are distracted by the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin description and people subconsciously "read" it when ever they use a skill via mouse clicking.

Reading once or twice and using the skill over time will make them memorize what the skill does by just looking at its icon.

So yea, please have the feature to turn off those skill description.

About the GW2 skills and such, whatever they say, it's ok as long as it's not WoW.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

02 Apr 2007 at 03:41 - 140

It would be no more "twitch combat" than it is now. I don't see how doing two things at once, be it running + activating skill, or jumping + activiating skill is considered button mashing or twitch combat. What I'm wanting is combat to be more strategic, and the skills dumbed down. What it looks like everyone else wants is combat dumbed down, with skills overly complex that require lots of memorizing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

Maybe there would be "hidden" combos, though, like just pouring gasoline on someone would slow them down, and just throwing a match on someone burns them, but together they light the other person on fire. It wouldn't be required (like assassin skills now), and it wouldn't add too much power, but it would open the door for more creative builds if different skills/effects went together.

There's already skills like that, for instance, Steam. It's just that it's not a "hidden effect". The "hidden effect" is what I'm talking about here. Essentially, everything about the mechanics of the skill is hidden, and with a little experimentation, you can discover other aspects of the skill, be it combos with other skills/conditions, or in combination with certain actions, like running/jumping. That's all I'm saying. If that's too complicated, well then perhaps Gaile's version: Binky's Spelling Adventure is more your speed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

So yea, please have the feature to turn off those skill description.

umm... check your options. It's in there.

tomcruisejr

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

02 Apr 2007 at 03:48 - 141

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

umm... check your options. It's in there.

Thanks. Good thing is it's 12 minutes til April 2 here so I still have an excuse.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

02 Apr 2007 at 04:02 - 142

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

Thanks. Good thing is it's 12 minutes til April 2 here so I still have an excuse.

Hehe, np.

Rurik Jangeer

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

[FINE] Fat Insecure Neurotic Emotional

P/W

02 Apr 2007 at 04:47 - 143

Anything well loved and used for a long time will be tough to change. My view on GW2 is this: I enjoy hearing about it, but take much of it seriously. Everything we hear can and just might change. If this "emergent complexity" scheme goes into action, I can only hope it's not the way I think it will be. I came back to this game for its complex pvp system. The amount of strategy and build synergy coupled with the need for competent players is something to behold. If they are taking that amazing game and dumbing it down for a crowd of QQ'ers... I don't know. I love this game, and I trust Anet will do what is best for it. Again, it is too early to assume, but what if?

WhiteZombie

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

02 Apr 2007 at 04:59 - 144

regardless of how much people complain and doomsay, the possibilities of a more action and context orientated control and skill system in an mmog are pretty interesting.

Rhedd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

You ever have to clean up after a Moa bird?

True Solunastra [SLA] Profession: Moa Wrangler

02 Apr 2007 at 05:37 - 145

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteZombie

regardless of how much people complain and doomsay, the possibilities of a more action and context orientated control and skill system in an mmog are pretty interesting.

Yeah, if you don't actually enjoy the game you're already playing.

Some people do.

WhiteZombie

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

02 Apr 2007 at 06:33 - 146

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhedd

Yeah, if you don't actually enjoy the game you're already playing.

Some people do.

i certainly hope you dont greet every new day with such rousing enthusiasm

Caith-Avar

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

Germany / Playing on European Region.

Society of Life and Death [sold]

Me/Mo

02 Apr 2007 at 14:09 - 147

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

There's already skills like that, for instance, Steam. It's just that it's not a "hidden effect". The "hidden effect" is what I'm talking about here. Essentially, everything about the mechanics of the skill is hidden, and with a little experimentation, you can discover other aspects of the skill, be it combos with other skills/conditions, or in combination with certain actions, like running/jumping. That's all I'm saying. If that's too complicated, well then perhaps Gaile's version: Binky's Spelling Adventure is more your speed.

Well, I think I know where you are heading... and at the moment, I'm equally full of doubt as of hope. But with that description of yours... "everything is hidden" means a lot more of interpretation. That means a lot more of language-based errors. I mean, okay. In German, some skill descriptions are horribly wrong, and that there are inscriptions that apply to "Zauberfähigen-Wegpunkte" (spellcaster waypoints) is just plain silly. As are the descriptions of guilt, shame and mistrust - interestingly, the same error has been avoided/corrected for mark of subversion (which, contrary to some beliefs (and the German skill description), behaves EXACTLY like shame, only for life instead of energy)...

well, anyhow... This makes for a lot of confusion. Because while if the description is wrong or full of errors, you still have at least an idea of what it is about. If all you have is an icon and a name - well, if the name has been selected or translated with an error, well, you're...
An example of current skills? Wild Blow, Warrior, without attributes. Loose all adrenaline, unblockable, automatic critical, end stance on enemy. So a heavy stancebreaking move. German translation: "Rundumschlag" ... which, essentially, would be a good alternate name for "cyclone axe". (rundum = around/surrounding, schlag = strike)

Essentially, by hiding all of the other stuff besides the name, it has the same problems as scientific languages. It becomes open to interpretation, which is good, because it is flexible. But interpretation is something heavily affected by cultural, language and social context, so interpretations may vary based on who you are, where you live and what you know of the world.
Working with such skills, in a foreign language or as a foreigner in english, would be like trying to get puns. Language-based ones. Some are translateable, some aren't. And if you take the original, it might still take you a while to get them, even if you're good at that language, because you don't excercise it in daily life as a native speaker, and you don't have the same secondary or tertiary associations/interpretations/meanings.

And, before someone comes along and says: "So, Germans can't play GW2, why should I care?" - Simple. It applies for all "other" languages, it's just that I can only give examples for German. And don't underestimate the foreign language (especially French and German) market in those things.

That's just something that always comes to my mind with this "simple" versus "complex" debate. The idea behind what you're saying is quite nice, though.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

02 Apr 2007 at 16:50 - 148

Caith-Avar, I see what you're saying, kinda, but wouldn't it be the exact opposite for translations? I mean, take a skill like Heavy Blow. It has a very exact description where if even one word was off, could be taken to mean something completely different.

Heavy Blow:
"Lose all adrenaline. If this attack hits a foe suffering from weakness, that foe is knocked down and you strike for +1...24 damage."

Now, let's say in translating, instead of "suffering from", it becomes "they suffer", or something like that. It changes the entire concept of the skill.

Now, my idea is that a skill like this would simply say:

"A mighty swing of your hammer."

That's it. Hidden within it's effects is that it does XX damage, and if the target is suffering from weakness, they are knocked down.

That's simplistic, and hard to confuse even in translation, I would think...

Caith-Avar

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

Germany / Playing on European Region.

Society of Life and Death [sold]

Me/Mo

02 Apr 2007 at 17:43 - 149

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Now, my idea is that a skill like this would simply say:

"A mighty swing of your hammer."

That's it. Hidden within it's effects is that it does XX damage, and if the target is suffering from weakness, they are knocked down.

That's simplistic, and hard to confuse even in translation, I would think...

Technically, yes. Problem solved, sounds good.
That is, as long as the number of skills is low enough to allow for distinguishing with such easy wordings.
Ah, nevermind. Just wanted to have pointed it out. I believe they will do something good. And much of what has been said "positively" in this thread sounded good so far.

clawofcrimson

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Crimson Claw

W/

02 Apr 2007 at 18:39 - 150

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamona interview

gamona: With Guild Wars 2 you're going to introduce a persistent world. How many people will be able to play on one server/shard at a time?

Arena.net: That's not finalized yet but it's more a design decision than a technical restriction, because our technology is able to handle quite large numbers of players. So we will have to put the player cap in a way which avoids both abandoned and overcrowded areas. Eventually, the maximum number of concurrent players is a secondary thing, because of our global player database which allows players to join any server/world they want to. This is a key feature to us, because it gives our players much greater freedom of choice than in other MMO's.

gamona: In Guild Wars 2 characters will be able to jump and swim for the first time. What was the reason for integrating these features and how will it affect gameplay?

Arena.net: In the first place, players get much more freedom and the world feels much more free and explorable. In Guild Wars 1 a character's actions were quite tightly tied to the story and our world did not feel very "living". The ability to jump and swim will inspire players to explore the world more deeply. Of course, there will be a strong story again, but it's more surrounding the world than defining it. So it'll rather be a story inside a world than a world build upon a story.

gamona: Are you going to keep the "8 skill system" from Guild Wars in Guild Wars 2 or at least use a similar one?

Arenat.net: The skill system used in Guild Wars gives us great possibilities to make our game exciting and tactically challenging in the long run. The limitation to eight skills at a time stresses the tactical component and makes it possible to discover and try out new stuff constantly, even for high level characters. For this reasons, we will definitely have a similar system in Guild Wars 2. Unfortunately, I can't give you any further details on this. But one thing is for sure: The basic mechanisms of the Guild Wars 8-skill-system will also be in Guild Wars 2.

some news to put some of us at ease.

http://www.gamona.de/pc/article/deta...08/start-2.htm

Realm of Fiery Doom

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

Realm of Fiery Doom

02 Apr 2007 at 18:43 - 151

I don't think anybody has metioned this, but...

Looking at the insane amount of builds floating around everywhere, how long do you think it will be before people are posting new "AWESOME DAGGER COMBO!!1!!ONE!!ELEVEN1!!"???!?

Right now, we have people telling you where to put your attribute points, and what skills to take.

Then, we're gonna have people telling us which buttons to press, when and in what order.

There isn't a lot of "finding out" what does what and what is a good combo; I'm willing to give 1K to anybody who has used the 55hp build AND found out about it for themselves, rather than going on a website and doing what it says.

Also, this would kick laggers hard. It's already bad enough lagging, but having a bit of lag or a mis-timed button press can drastically alter what you actually do in game. A split-second can be all the difference between being in the air and standing still.

So I'm saying...just stick to what we've got now.

clawofcrimson

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Crimson Claw

W/

02 Apr 2007 at 19:03 - 152

Quote:

Originally Posted by Realm of Fiery Doom

I don't think anybody has metioned this, but...

Looking at the insane amount of builds floating around everywhere, how long do you think it will be before people are posting new "AWESOME DAGGER COMBO!!1!!ONE!!ELEVEN1!!"???!?

Right now, we have people telling you where to put your attribute points, and what skills to take.

Then, we're gonna have people telling us which buttons to press, when and in what order.

There isn't a lot of "finding out"; I'm willing to give 1K to everybody who has used the 55hp build AND found out about it for themselves, rather than going on a website and doing what it says.

Also, this would kick laggers hard. It's already bad enought lagging.

you will always have the 'elite' crowd...no matter what. changing 'how' a skill works isnt gonna change that.

Onarik Amrak

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2007

Astral Revenants

P/W

02 Apr 2007 at 21:18 - 153

Quote:

Originally Posted by clawofcrimson

some news to put some of us at ease.

http://www.gamona.de/pc/article/deta...08/start-2.htm

That article says "summer". Would that mean a northern hemisphere summer? As in mid-year around june-july? Cause that is really different to the Q3, Q4 estimates of other sources.

clawofcrimson

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Crimson Claw

W/

02 Apr 2007 at 21:27 - 154

anets headquarters is in Bellvue Washington(state) so I'm guessing its 'their' summer. so yes..june-july ish... if our summer here in washington ends up in those months this year.

Darksun

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

USA

Karr's Castle

W/E

02 Apr 2007 at 21:28 - 155

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhedd

Yeah, if you don't actually enjoy the game you're already playing.

Some people do.

Fail. I love Guild Wars. GW2 sounds even better. Some people can't do change, period.

clawofcrimson

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Crimson Claw

W/

02 Apr 2007 at 21:32 - 156

well... with the gamona statement in mind... it may not be such a drastic change as we were thinking...

I am thinking that we will get a "jumping swimming etc.." version of what we have now... giving more depth to the skills we already have...

I am wondering about wheither or not they will keep 'conditions' though... with the supposed change i can see this system changing.

Caith-Avar

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

Germany / Playing on European Region.

Society of Life and Death [sold]

Me/Mo

02 Apr 2007 at 23:30 - 157

Quote:

Originally Posted by clawofcrimson

well... with the gamona statement in mind... it may not be such a drastic change as we were thinking...

I am thinking that we will get a "jumping swimming etc.." version of what we have now... giving more depth to the skills we already have...

I am wondering about wheither or not they will keep 'conditions' though... with the supposed change i can see this system changing.

1. Exactly what I thought after reading the article.
2. Nearly what I thought then.
3. What I keep asking me all the time - I hope it will stay somehow systematic as it is now.

Scown-dog

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Canada-nuff said

Peace Machine Grrr [DiE]-with Kanwulf until I feel the boot

W/N

03 Apr 2007 at 00:19 - 158

Quote:

Originally Posted by clawofcrimson

it works the way they say it will, I shall personally send them each a fruit basket.

Please! More information on how to win the fruit basket!

AnnaCloud9

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

Minnesota

Well if you're bored, then you're boring!

R/

03 Apr 2007 at 01:57 - 159

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Caith-Avar, I see what you're saying, kinda, but wouldn't it be the exact opposite for translations? I mean, take a skill like Heavy Blow. It has a very exact description where if even one word was off, could be taken to mean something completely different.

Heavy Blow:
"Lose all adrenaline. If this attack hits a foe suffering from weakness, that foe is knocked down and you strike for +1...24 damage."

Now, let's say in translating, instead of "suffering from", it becomes "they suffer", or something like that. It changes the entire concept of the skill.

Now, my idea is that a skill like this would simply say:

"A mighty swing of your hammer."

That's it. Hidden within it's effects is that it does XX damage, and if the target is suffering from weakness, they are knocked down.

That's simplistic, and hard to confuse even in translation, I would think...

I'm not in any way bashing your ideas, infact it's nice to see actual logical debate on this.

My thoughts on this idea of yours:

Once the hidden effects are discovered by players, won't there be countless websites to list and 'decipher' these hidden effects (strategy guides if you will), making them not so hidden afterall, and then instead of actual skill descriptions ingame, wouldn't we have notes strewn about on how to execute our 'hidden' moves? I really don't see how this would be any more, or less, tactically invigorating...unless each and every skill acted differently for each and every player.

Sol Solus

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2007

W/R

03 Apr 2007 at 02:12 - 160

There are 1434 PvP skills in GW. That's how many skills a competent player has to be familiar with to not be caught by surprise by innovative builds. Long time players don't mind because chapters have hit us one at a time, but it's fustrating for newcomers to PvP. It seems database memorization is another outdated RPG mechanic Anet wants to stamp out. The old skill system will not work if GW2 wants to:

Have small expansions, not whole chapters.
The repertiore of core skills should cover most gameplay styles in PvE and PvP.
Reduce bloat.
If skills are only useful against certain opponents under specific conditions, more skills will be needed to cover all strategies.
Allow players to hold their own regardless of the profession they are playing.
Skills that adapt depending on how they are used allow for on-the-fly strategizing. Perhaps not as in key combos, but against what kind of target, while in what state or stance, depending on melee or range situation, etc.

Example: A monk skill called "Light of Judgement" might heal allies, but burn enemies, and have less effect at range so it becomes a viable self-heal.