Hard Mode: Necessary Elitism?

Gaile said that Hard Mode will be released within 1 month of 3/20 (i.e. 3 weeks from now, although I highly doubt that since Gaile has said there will be another PvP Skill Balance test...and that'll overshadow it.)

Therefore, it's time to analyze the potential impact of Hard Mode.

I doubt there will be a lengthy requirement to engage in Hard Mode (i.e. Protector of Continent), as very few people would do it otherwise. I expect that Hard Mode will be unlocked with a campaign completion.

If Hard Mode is...actually Hard, and requires either all humans and/or can't be beaten with 2 MMs and 2 SF...what will happen?

I expect a incredible surge of players who want to try the new, [supposedly] more difficult, missions. However, since the requirements to enter these missions will likely be low, there will be very many bad players. (think of the Gates of Madness outpost...)

Thus...will elitism be necessary to filter out the bad players from the players seeking a maximum title?

I, personally, will only join with humans if they already have atleast one Protector title (I, myself, have all 3 Protector titles). Yes, it's not particularly hard to get a Protector title nowadays (thanks to Heroes). But having a Protector title shows that the player is a) serious at completing Hard Mode for all missions for the title and b) somewhat skilled. It does take skill to get Masters on missions such as Raisu Palace and Grand Court of Sebelkeh.

But, there is a counterpoint. There are, on my count 57 Missions which will be played with groups on Hard Mode (excluding Augury Rock, as that's mainly a solo mission...) If people are spread among 57 outposts, there may not be enough people to be selective. You'll have to take whoever you can, no matter if they are skilled or not.

Of course, I may be overreacting. I expect Hard Mode to be easily completeable with 2 Humans/6 Heroes (4 of those players being the aforementioned 2 MM/2 SS). But if it is not, there will be elitism. Count on it.

I didn't think that hard mode was for just missions? Maybe it is, can someone confirm this?

I don't mind either way, so long as TS/Vent doesn't become a requirement like in DoA...

I think its for all areas except pre(wonder why)

I hope its not just for missions.

More options FTW

i just hope it's not another botch job like doa

I don't expect hard to be easily completable at all, its always fun to do in really hard way, it at least gives a you motive and urge to finish it.
Why shouldn't there be elitism? you don't need all players to finish it you n your guildies/friends can handle with heroes sure there will be way to finish it.

Yes, it affects all areas. (Gaile implied that) But does it really matter? You don't get a title for entering miscellaneous areas...

However, that may change my idea of Hard Mode completely; it could be a completely seperate map, in-which you have to redo the campaign. Naaa...that would be a tad annoying.

You underestimate the amount of people without friends or a guild.

Yeah I'm pretty sure Hard Mode doesn't apply only to missions. Here's a link to Gaile's announcement:

http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...php?t=10132947

"Contrary to our original intentions, we're also including Hard Mode in all areas of the game"

Now with that out of the way...

I think it's too soon to say. I don't think they'd allow only players in the group, since you would need human players for every area in Guild Wars. And it would still be too sparse to find players if heros were allowed.

Other than that, I agree. Elitisim is inevitable.

Hard Mode is not just for missions. In fact it's like they are remaking the game.

Anyone fancy a lockpick?

True. But its an option.

Geez, i guess the fraze about next gen games is true. normal is the new hard. games have been getting harder, not just on the consoles i see, puters too!

Considering you have elitism in the simplest of areas my guess is that Hard mode will do it also. I see no reason why it would suddenly go away. My guess is that cookie cutter builds and class elitism will be there also (again, it is there in the simplest of areas, no reason for it to disappear).

The only time I have ever seen the community *not* doing that was when I first hit the Realm of Torment - it was early enough in the release cycle that pretty much everyone knew doing that was silly. But then, it was nearly all guild groups and the better hench-way players so not many groups were being formed either.

So what if there is elitsm....does anyone want to play with crappy players? no.

On another note, I predict that a vast majority of people won't be able the Guardian Title on any continent.....and there will be a whine thread about nerf Hard mode within minutes of the patch.

every mmo has elliteism no matter what you do.

I do tend to be more selective about groups in high end areas (though id mostly go with guildies or heros then)

i dont really see anything bad about it as long as you arnt mean about it, I mean nobody wants to have to do something over cause tehy had some one in the party mess up

Since (according to the title track menu) can't even start on the Guardian title without the Protector title, I thought that meant you wouldn't be able to do hard mode missions sans the Protector title.

Don't know what restriction there'd be on hard mode areas though...

I dont care to go back and sift through everying GG said (what a cool acronymn for her name) but I recall she made a statement saying what if someone wanted to go to flame corridor and fight lvl 20 foes and get good loot.

so I perceive you may be able to enable hard mode and then just go outside in explorable areas.

I think we'll know when its done though.

Take care of each other, and your bunnies.

May be a stupid question...but does anyone know if ther will be a Fissure or UW Hard Mode?

This. Why would I want to waste my time with the Average Joe?

Yea there has to be a some sort of requirement to start hard mode. It would be kind of dumb to make it so you can skip to hard mode right after starting a character. It should at least be completing all of the missions once. If it is obtaining the Protector title I won't mind either.

That way when i go to get a group for Hard mode, I know that they should at least be average players. I won't expect people to be godly, but at the same time i dont expect people to do "newb" mistakes. In other words, in hard mode I shouldn't have to walk them through the whole thing.

And lack of players?? I'm pretty everyone here has as least one main character on which they do everything with. And with Hard mode I'm pretty sure they are going to do like I will and beat it with my main.

As for elitism...elitism is generally a negative term. Should it exist? To a degree. Should it exist like it does in HA? Hell no. This should not be one of those R8+ PLZ game modes. (yes 8 is a random number) In short, it comes down to common sense. If you have good common knowledge and sense of the game, you will get far in GW. If not have fun henching it everywhere, because there are many people who won't put up with stupidity.

On a happy note, I'm stoked for hard mode! Yay, a new reason to PvE other than farming!

Well, Gaile said that they're "including Hard Mode in every area of the game". So I'd assume yes, unless they didn't for some reason.

I hope Anet learned from past experiences and make hard mode a friendly environment and free from elitism. We will see. Crossing my fingers on this one

Well mesmers rejoice, hard mode might even make mesmers more accepted in missions. After all people have been saying for so long that mesmers have been 'useless' for easy areas.

I've found that its sorta hard to stick to your guns in certain situations. Example, when I do Tomb(its fun, relatively quick, and it fills my storage platinum reserves) sometimes there aren't enough B/P's or Orders and you have to take a Tank or just some random person. You could wait for who you want to arrive but you may be waiting a very long time. As in FoW/UW long. I waited an hour and a half for a UW group once and we died in less than 5 minutes(stupid ppl insisted on an MM...).

Let's wait to see how hard Hard Mode actually is. Some missions I don't expect to be much harder but some will be a pain. Vizunah Square in Hard Mode. *shudder* I can't wait to see Ruins of Surmia. Its my fav mission.

Dude Hard mode can add more random fun.

As soon as it comes out I'm getting my friends and going around and killing a bunch of char

lf r9+ MM for hard mode masters gate of fear, PM plz

They tested hard mode. Remeber in FOW way back when they did the first AI update and monster ran around you in circles and monks and casters avoided combat at full life. and people said it was a bug and hated it. Welcome back. That is going to be hard mode. They might even bring back the forever chasing monsters when you do runs too. And possibly make ranger groups run away too with low health. GG. You probably going to be forced to buy the next installment just to farm somewhat because of the new added pve skills.

First of all, is there any confirmation that there is a requirement (and that it is the Protector title) for Hard Mode? The material of Gaile I've been reading made it sound like it was a choice, and simple as that.

Second... It's been said, but, it will be for both missions and explorable areas. That was confirmed.

Third... Honestly, I don't care who I play with. I have fun winning or losing. If someone does something stupid, I stop and realize that I (the player) am still alive, and that I can get another shot. I'm not in any competition to beat X mission by Y time, so whether I beat the mission today, or next week, my "progress" is not behind schedule.

I realize that everyone else with a character here bought their own copy (supposedly) of the game, and unless I'm willing to give them $49.99 I'm not entitled to tell them how to play.

I have yet to tell anyone what build to use, or how to play and I've yet to "bow" to someone telling me how to play my character or what skills I should bring. If people ask? Sure, I'm flexible, but I'm not just their "hero."

Supposedly we play this game for fun, so as long as I'm having it, who cares?

Hard Mode: All monsters now carry a Res Sig. Hello 4-hour-long missions!

Gods I hope this thread is just full of it. I was becoming quite interested in "Hard Mode", but not if we have to go through hoops just to play it. Why insist people finish, say, Prophecies in what is currently, let's face it, "Ultra Easy Mode", just so they can play the hard version?

What goes through some people heads I'll never know - perhaps they just hear the word "rewards" and want it ring-fenced for them and their buddies. Oh yeah - that would be the elitisim part, wouldn't it?

FWIW, I'm really hoping for a simple toggle in the outposts - maybe on the party panel. "Check box for hard mode". That would be nice.

thast actually impossible, there will be eliteism no matter what they do. they could get rid of all ranks, special armors, special items, and make us all look exactly the same and have the same stuff. And there still would be elitists.

It will be all about elitism to begin with but then, as with the rest of Guild Wars, people will post builds which anybody can run. Reminds me of Sorrow's Furnace where 'pro' 8-person parties farmed for greens then it was discovered that a 4 person party could rip through it with the ideal build. The same thing happened with DoA (and also HA - IWAY anybody?).

The only inherent capabilities players need in Guild Wars PvE is some common sense and the ability to google a build - regardless of the situation.

Even a Hard Mode DoA?

Wouldn't surprise me.

It wouldn't make sense that you could go fight lv. 20+ Charr after you get out of Pre-Searing. Plus, it would confuse people if there were multiple versions...

In World of Warcraft, the requirement to enter a "Hard Mode" version of a dungeon is to have enough reputation with a certain faction, which can only be achieved by replaying the same mission on Normal multiple times. So that's why I think it'll require knowledge of the mission somehow...

Rust?

If you insist it's "Ultra Easy Mode," when why would a person complain? Not compleating Prophecies, at the least, is laziness. I don't want lazy people.

That's only for loot, which I don't think will be too promising.

I, among many people, want the title, and the challenge.

It's the players that create the elitist builds/attitudes for the higher/elite areas, not ANet.

*lol* I haven't completed Prophecies because I have all 3 games and 9 characters and a short attention span. My N/Me is close to the end of Prophecies but needs new armor and better outfitted heroes. Anyway, I'm a casual player and am only on about 3 nights a week. I think playing less is what keeps me interested. The crappy part of getting Protector is that alot of the mid-game missions in Prophecies are nearly completely abandoned and sometimes you need real people to help you with the bonuses at least.

Because you can't go back to pre.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10133163
"...which have required extensive testing and balancing of all the missions in Hard Mode. (This meant doing such things as making sure a human Hard Mode team paired with an NPC team in the Vizunah Square mission could still achieve Master's level completion.)"

Well, if these words are true, and testers really did their job, then i guess we don't have to worry much about elitism. Time will tell...

no I think you should be able to do hard mode of the campaign you BEAT

so if you beat factions you can activate its hard mode, if you didnt go play the game

if your a sin in hard mode more power to you ^.^

Discrimination during the process of forming a team prevents frustration and loss of time in the long run. Elitism however has recently been tinted in a negative color while it's basically just assessment, selection, judgement and adaption. The very nature of gameplay in Guildwars makes it necessary to carefully select your partymembers.
Guildwars is in essence a very easy game. You can easily trade items in the middle of a major Mindblade Spawn and live through it. You can still drink your coke while that large red Maddened Dredge Mob on the Minimap is closing in. On the other hand, Guildwars is an incredibly hard game. This aspect of schizophrenia derives itself from the simple fact that due to the low number of teammates, a single weaker teammate can easily screw things up so bad that 7 other averagely skilled players can't control the situation anymore.
The party is just as good as its weakest link. A team of 4 players without a bad player will perform a lot better than a team of 8 players with one bad player.
Quite frankly, most of PVE is easy enough to start with and most people aren't actually such bad players. They atleast have a very basic grasp of the game and how it works. So a single bad player may drag your team down but the campaign can still be finished with him along.

To furthermore draw a conclusion to this topic: In essence, elitism is a good thing. Properly applied elitism can lead to learning (and teaching) and an overall more enjoyable gaming experience. Good elitism includes a general knowledge of the game, knowing your own weaknesses, good communication skills.
For example:
A newbie player joins your team. A good elitist does not know how good this person actually is so he asks a few questions. For example the health and the skillbar or other seemingly random chatter. And after seeing the answers and experiencing the persons personality he will know if he is seeing a newbie or a noob.
A good elitist will most likely offer a few suggestions as to how the skillset could be changed to better accomodate the teambuild and in an ideal scenario: The player either agrees or provides viable arguments as to why he disagrees.
Elitism doesn't necessarily mean shrugging of new players, elitism is the social skill of being able to weed out the stubborn and angry rotten apples and construct a working team out of a pool of unknown factors.

Bad elitism? Everyone has seen it. It's based upon Rank/Titles/Classes/Whatever

Ummm.... If hard mode requires completion of the campaign, many people bring foreign characters to other continents, so you can't really finish all the missions. (Well you can, but not a lot of people are willing to do them) So I think having the last mission completed is enough to access hard mode.