The official Eye of the North page says nothing about anything new in pvp, which is a major letdown, as in all the other chapters there was SOMETHING new in pvp (i know there wasn't anything special in Nightfall, but hey, you got skills and 2 new professions to play with).
Everything on the page seems to be only about pve, making it seem it won't have a pvp impact at all other than a few skills. The only phrase where it HINTS at having new pvp content is: "Tons of new content designed exclusively for your existing guild wars characters"
On the subject of skills, The Eye of the north will only feature 100 skills for pvp/pve use, so if they distribute it evenly, thats 10 skills for a profession, and if each profession had 4 attributes, there would be 2-3 skills per attribute. As you all know, that's hardly enough for pvpers (or anyone for that matter) to be entertained with.
The whole entire page seems to be a joyous celebration for the tons and tons of exciting new pve content to explore but doesn't even mention a word for pvp changes. They could do a lot of other things to make pvp better, other than skills, like say, add a new arena, yet there was nothing of it mentioned in the post, which scares me.
Sigh, i hope this game isn't just a pve advertizement for Guild Wars 2 (just like how Warcraft III's expansion spent the whole entire campaign setting up World of Warcraft...)
EDIT: wow there were a lot of pve favoring replies to this post... but then again the ratio to pvp and pve players is like 1:10. Anyway, this post is about pvp discontent that there will be relatively NOTHING in it for them if they buy this expansion. I both pve and pvp, and would be unhappy if i was only enhancing my pve play if i bought GW:EN.
Stay on topic, this post has nothing to do with pve vs pvp or anything close to it.
Eye of the North seems to hint nothing new in pvp
crime.mob
moriz
actually, i'm quite sure most pvpers want LESS skills, and skills that are balanced. in fact, most of the people i talk to want to revert back to the original six professions and their skills, since the new stuff introduced by factions and NF kinda broke the delicate balance of GW pvp.
The Great Al
there's hardly been any info on ch4 yet. factions had the faction stuff, nightfall had heroes, what is ch4 going to introduce to us besides the hall of monuments, which is basically advertisement for gw2?
crime.mob
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Originally Posted by moriz
actually, i'm quite sure most pvpers want LESS skills, and skills that are balanced. in fact, most of the people i talk to want to revert back to the original six professions
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but still most people don't want to twiddle their fingers while Anet spends their time banging their heads for months on how to balence the game. Sure adding new skills will aggravate the problem, but then again they could be used to tie up loose ends and fix them if done right, since its far too late to go back to the original 6 professions and their skills now.
Yet thats not the point of the post, the whole entire page seems to be a joyous celebration for the tons and tons of exciting new pve content to explore but doesn't even mention a word for pvp changes. They could do a lot of other things to make pvp better, like say, add a new arena, yet there was nothing of it mentioned in the post, which scares me.
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Originally Posted by moriz
... what other kind of arena would you possibly want? a full RA style 8v8 gvg arena? although that would be cool, i'd hate to play against the team with 8 monks.
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Ras Kass
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Originally Posted by moriz
actually, i'm quite sure most pvpers want LESS skills, and skills that are balanced. in fact, most of the people i talk to want to revert back to the original six professions and their skills, since the new stuff introduced by factions and NF kinda broke the delicate balance of GW pvp.
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moriz
... what other kind of arena would you possibly want? a full RA style 8v8 gvg arena? although that would be cool, i'd hate to play against the team with 8 monks.
-Loki-
Less skills is good - less chances to screw the metagame up even more than it is. No new guild halls is good - no chance to get another pre-fix Burning Isle or Jade Isle. No new classes is good - Arenanet have shown they suck at introducing new classes to PvP. There's enough Arenas already on the Battle Isles, though a 6v6 arena would be welcome. As it is, it means they won't be introducing assloads of unbalanced stuff to PvP, and gives them a chance to fix what's broken.
Mercury Angel
The 100 skills aside, based on this:
My guess is, no new pvp modes indefinitely for Guild Wars 1.
I'd imagine PvP'ers will be happy (content? something like that) as long as Anet keeps their commitment to having (or working towards) a balanced and diverse metagame, regardless of the orientation of the Eye of the North content.
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| Izzy said he plays a lot. He thinks it does cool things and they want to see how they can integrate it into the game, but they don’t want to fragment the player base. They try to support it though as best as they can by posting rules and links. |
I'd imagine PvP'ers will be happy (content? something like that) as long as Anet keeps their commitment to having (or working towards) a balanced and diverse metagame, regardless of the orientation of the Eye of the North content.
Jaziel
My guess is that they've realized that PvP and PvPers don't sell games.
Otherwise why would they be bascially dropping GW1 and retooling GW2 to become a PvE-centric game? In one of the (myriads) of interviews I've read since the announcement of EotN and GW2 it was mentioned that people just WEREN'T going on into PvP from their PvE characters as Anet originally assumed they would.
Face it MMO PvP is extremely niche, and it doesn't sell games.
(It hypes them well enough...eg. WAR and Age of Conan...but it doesn't SELL! Witness LotR outsell both WAR and AoC in the years to come
OK, that's a big prediction, but anyway...)
Otherwise why would they be bascially dropping GW1 and retooling GW2 to become a PvE-centric game? In one of the (myriads) of interviews I've read since the announcement of EotN and GW2 it was mentioned that people just WEREN'T going on into PvP from their PvE characters as Anet originally assumed they would.
Face it MMO PvP is extremely niche, and it doesn't sell games.
(It hypes them well enough...eg. WAR and Age of Conan...but it doesn't SELL! Witness LotR outsell both WAR and AoC in the years to come
OK, that's a big prediction, but anyway...)
VGJustice
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Originally Posted by Jaziel
Face it MMO PvP is extremely niche, and it doesn't sell games.
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golem bigstick
no sorry, pve is were most of the player base is, they sell pvp only versions for those that only want to pvp, but that is a slim margin. i am hoping they move towards a wow(or general mmo feel) for gw2. gw1 was just too short, even if they released chapters every 6 months.
Jaziel
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Originally Posted by VGJustice
No, sorry, PvP sells this game. That's why they have PvP Only editions for sale.
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The REASON they gave for making GW2 (the same reason they eventually included all the extras like titles, greens, elite missions, etc) is that contrary to their initial assumption, people were STICKING with PvE and their PvE character "development" rather than crossing over into PvP.
BTW the PvP "only" editions would be selling alot so that people can easily UAS for their hero characters WITHOUT having to PvP. Anyone who seriously PvPs doesn't need these unlocks because they can easily do it with Balt Faction.
Mysterial
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Originally Posted by VGJustice
No, sorry, PvP sells this game. That's why they have PvP Only editions for sale.
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That said, I'm not convinced MMO PvP is a niche market. However, Guild Wars PvP certainly is, partially because of a steep learning curve and partially because of a lack of beginner level PvP content (no, exploit-ridden low level arenas don't count, nor does unbalanced RA). I haven't seen anything that indicates it has to be that way, though.
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by VGJustice
No, sorry, PvP sells this game. That's why they have PvP Only editions for sale.
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countesscorpula
The only PvP i play with any regularity is Aspenwood or RA. The reason being: when i first went to attempt PvP (over a year ago) it was near impossible to get into a group to play, and I am not entertained by endless hours of "Prim/Sec LFG." Heck, the few times i have played in HA, it took over 30 minutes just to get a full group together. I have better things to do with my time than hurry up and wait. (How does anyone ever get to rank X if no one will let you in their group without being Rank X?)
As to "PvP only editions"... they require nothing new to be engineered, and they pull in a client base that might have simply continued to play with the base skills of CH1. In other words... it's gravy sales.
I still am not sure what percentage of the games population is PvPer and PvEer. I did notice today that the PvE forum contains roughly 3x as many posts as the PvP forum... but that could simply mean that PvEers are more chatty and that vast numbers of PvPers are too busy actually playing.
Anyhoo... if you are terribly concerned that the upcoming game does not meet your needs, don't buy it until you've seen what it's about. Problem solved.
(Afterthought... I thought it was the facing other real people that was supposed to keep PvP interesting, not new bells and whistles like skills. The constant adventure of adapting to what other players are coming up with in their builds... rather than crying about how they broke one's perfect build and therefore whatever they are using is unbalanced.)
As to "PvP only editions"... they require nothing new to be engineered, and they pull in a client base that might have simply continued to play with the base skills of CH1. In other words... it's gravy sales.
I still am not sure what percentage of the games population is PvPer and PvEer. I did notice today that the PvE forum contains roughly 3x as many posts as the PvP forum... but that could simply mean that PvEers are more chatty and that vast numbers of PvPers are too busy actually playing.
Anyhoo... if you are terribly concerned that the upcoming game does not meet your needs, don't buy it until you've seen what it's about. Problem solved.
(Afterthought... I thought it was the facing other real people that was supposed to keep PvP interesting, not new bells and whistles like skills. The constant adventure of adapting to what other players are coming up with in their builds... rather than crying about how they broke one's perfect build and therefore whatever they are using is unbalanced.)
arcanemacabre
I'm betting there will be a few new Guild Halls...
and, and, and, skills? Yeah, skills.
rejoice?
and, and, and, skills? Yeah, skills.
rejoice?
Curse You
Wait, Chapter 4? There isn't, and will never be a "Chapter 4." GW:EN is an expansion, not a chapter.
Knightsaber Sith
^Don't dwell on semantics. And they could one day feel like making another campaign for GW1.
Curse You
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Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith
^Don't dwell on semantics. And they could one day feel like making another campaign for GW1.
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Bankai
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Originally Posted by countesscorpula
The only PvP i play with any regularity is Aspenwood or RA. The reason being: when i first went to attempt PvP (over a year ago) it was near impossible to get into a group to play, and I am not entertained by endless hours of "Prim/Sec LFG." Heck, the few times i have played in HA, it took over 30 minutes just to get a full group together. I have better things to do with my time than hurry up and wait. (How does anyone ever get to rank X if no one will let you in their group without being Rank X?)
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Here's a link.
mikkel
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Originally Posted by VGJustice
No, sorry, PvP sells this game. That's why they have PvP Only editions for sale.
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If anything, PvE sells this game.
The problem is that after any new chapter is out, PvE seems to be dropped on the floor and mutilated to appease the PvP community and to keep HA from overflowing with tears and killing off their delicate and vulnerable PvP player base of crybabies.
ANet handles balance in a very strange way.
Rakeman
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Originally Posted by Curse You
They have announced that they will not be doing anymore chapters for GW1, but instead be working on GW2. It's in the interviews or the article, or both. From my experience, I've seen that game companies don't make new stuff for old games.
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MirageMaster
In any case i like that pvpers wont get much stuff in GWEN,maybe they will leave.
Yichi
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Originally Posted by mikkel
The problem is that after any new chapter is out, PvE seems to be dropped on the floor and mutilated to appease the PvP community and to keep HA from overflowing with tears and killing off their delicate and vulnerable PvP player base of crybabies.
ANet handles balance in a very strange way. |
face it. PVP balance affects the game way more than any pve balance does.
mikkel
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Originally Posted by MistressYichi
Because balance in a player vs player tournament is more important when 100k is on the line, than your precious farming build to kill 983467605987630485608560823756 trolls.
face it. PVP balance affects the game way more than any pve balance does. |
Of course PvP balance is more critical than PvE balance. Everyone knows that. However, everyone also knows that the PvP crowd are generally never happy, and there's always someone crying loudly about something somewhere. Mutilating the PvE potential of classes certainly isn't a good way to address the tears of someone who can't get past the first map at HA.
Look at the paragon. PvP players are still crying, and most PvE players I know have stopped playing theirs.
Again, ANet deals with balance in strange ways.
The Ernada
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Originally Posted by MirageMaster
In any case i like that pvpers wont get much stuff in GWEN,maybe they will leave.
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Yichi
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Originally Posted by mikkel
There's no need to get defensive, little friend.
Of course PvP balance is more critical than PvE balance. Everyone knows that. However, everyone also knows that the PvP crowd are generally never happy, and there's always someone crying loudly about something somewhere. Mutilating the PvE potential of classes certainly isn't a good way to address the tears of someone who can't get past the first map at HA. Look at the paragon. PvP players are still crying, and most PvE players I know have stopped playing theirs. Again, ANet deals with balance in strange ways. |
The skill balancers do try their hardest and i applaud them for wanting to have a balanced game with balanced skills. the problem lies within the actual design and concept of the new classes themselves. some were not properly given their place, take the ritualist for example. until recently with weapon spells working so flawlessly, the rit never had a real purpose for the game since the rit lord nerf. Then you have others such as the assassin which have but one purpose. and thats a linear skillbar with a teleport ability which is rediculously broke atm.
The PVP community wants a general balance to competitive PVP. Wether it be map selection (which i wont get into), skill selection, etc. the PVP community does not wish for the game to become buildwars which for the last couple months, is what competitive PVP has become.
The Ernada
That's weird. I could have sworn the PVE community complains just as much if not more than the PVP community. But I guess Im the only one who thinks it looks stupid to complain about PVP complainerss yet I see PVE complaints about not being able to max a certain title....
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by The Ernada
That's weird. I could have sworn the PVE community complains just as much if not more than the PVP community. But I guess Im the only one who thinks it looks stupid to complain about PVP complainerss yet I see PVE complaints about not being able to max a certain title....
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Motto for the Internetz - People Bitch.
There will always be whiners, as well as legitimate complaints of all types, especially on an internet forum, and especially for a game where the Devs actively listen to their community. It's actually a good thing, as it shows the game is hopping and lots of people are playing, or at the very least, they're interested.
Does-it-Matter
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Originally Posted by The Ernada
What's the matter? Lost in PVP once and got bitter about PVP'ers?
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Back to the topic...
Regardless of whatever rumors we can spread, or anecdotal evidence we can offer, there are only two things that can prove "who is bigger than who" in terms of community. Demographics and whatever ANet says. The later was already done.
Let's face the paradox, the majority of the content is geared towards PvE, yet the majority of the game tweaks are towards PvP. We could say that's because PvE is a bigger community, or it could be that PvPers don't need large areas to explore and a variety of NPCs to kill (and the only thing that needs to be fixed are the skills and the occasional bad guild hall map.)
The rest is speculation.
BlackSephir
Okay, here I gose!!11
Well, the best thing would be lots of BALANCED skills but thats not going to happen... Okay, I agree, less balanced skills is ok, but not to this degree! 150 new skills, 50 pve only, that leaves 100 for 10 classes- 10 for each class- riiiight...
That's not what I'd expect
Sure, I'd let it go if AN would add some skills to GW without any expansion/chapter but that isnt going to happen... Besides, GWEN is probably (probably, not for sure) last expansion, skill-adder to GW... Though I hope someday we will see GW: Utopia
Rofl? I thought GW being great pvp game is what convinced me to buy it, but I guess I just wanted to farm trolls :x Thank you for showing me the light!
Funny, because I wouldn't buy GW if not for pvp
Just because you think so, it doesn't mean it is that way -,-
Wow, and I was against removing pve from GW... now I see that might've been cool...
For Balthazar's Beard...
Like pve players dont cry and whine... "I can't farm trolls anymore" "Why can't we achieve Defender of Ascalon and survivor titles, its not fair", "oh noez I can't solo tombs with my assa anymore" "why the hell are mobs running away from aoe" etc etc
Jeez O_o
Funny world we're living in, eh? :D
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| actually, i'm quite sure most pvpers want LESS skills |
That's not what I'd expect
Sure, I'd let it go if AN would add some skills to GW without any expansion/chapter but that isnt going to happen... Besides, GWEN is probably (probably, not for sure) last expansion, skill-adder to GW... Though I hope someday we will see GW: Utopia
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| My guess is that they've realized that PvP and PvPers don't sell games. |
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| Face it MMO PvP is extremely niche, and it doesn't sell games. |
Just because you think so, it doesn't mean it is that way -,-
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| In any case i like that pvpers wont get much stuff in GWEN,maybe they will leave. |
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| However, everyone also knows that the PvP crowd are generally never happy, and there's always someone crying loudly about something somewhere. |
Like pve players dont cry and whine... "I can't farm trolls anymore" "Why can't we achieve Defender of Ascalon and survivor titles, its not fair", "oh noez I can't solo tombs with my assa anymore" "why the hell are mobs running away from aoe" etc etc
Jeez O_o
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| That's weird. I could have sworn the PVE community complains just as much if not more than the PVP community. But I guess Im the only one who thinks it looks stupid to complain about PVP complainerss yet I see PVE complaints about not being able to max a certain title.... |
arcanemacabre
Please, please, please not another PvP vs. PvE derailment.... Please! No one ever wins that worn-out argument.
BlackSephir
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
Please, please, please not another PvP vs. PvE derailment.... Please! No one ever wins that worn-out argument.
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The Ernada
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Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter
Classic, Mature and Concise. And a basis for a quick game, guess which of the three non-italicized words in the first sentence was sarcasm..
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Or are you another one of those who likes using PVP as a scapegoat? Judging by the rest of your post you are.
Jaziel
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Originally Posted by BlackSephir
Just because you think so, it doesn't mean it is that way -,-
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So...just because YOU think so doesn't mean other people bought GW for PvP.
All you have to do is look at the numbers in the PvP districts versus the numbers in PvE districts...it's easy to see where most of the players are.
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Originally Posted by BlackSephir
Yep, everyone already knows if he wants to play mainly pve or pvp, but notice that Jaziel was the first here who started pvp vs pve with his "pvp doesn't sell"
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BlackSephir
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Originally Posted by Jaziel
The thing is it's YOU who's saying that YOU bought GW for the PvP...I was generalizing about what other people do. (I didn't even say what I bought it for)
So...just because YOU think so doesn't mean other people bought GW for PvP. All you have to do is look at the numbers in the PvP districts versus the numbers in PvE districts...it's easy to see where most of the players are. |
Numbers- what about them? I don't see your point- just because pve has more players it means that pvp doesnt sell or what?
If you haven't noticed, you started this 'pvp vs pve' here, nobody wants that and in conlusion- keep things like 'pvp doesnt sell' to yourself, thats not even about it- it's 'Eye of the North seems to hint nothing new in pvp Reply to Thread'
Knightsaber Sith
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Originally Posted by Curse You
They have announced that they will not be doing anymore chapters for GW1, but instead be working on GW2. It's in the interviews or the article, or both. From my experience, I've seen that game companies don't make new stuff for old games.
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Originally Posted by Jeff Strain
We haven't actually announced what the follow-up plan is for Guild Wars. This is the first Guild Wars expansion but we certainly haven't said that this is the end of Guild Wars 1.
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Guess again bucko.
Bankai
Fact 1: PvE cannot be balanced and does not need to be balanced.
Fact 2. PvP has to be balanced, otherwise it's crap.
Face 1+Fact 2=Skills are changes for pvp.
Fact 2. PvP has to be balanced, otherwise it's crap.
Face 1+Fact 2=Skills are changes for pvp.
flamegrilled cheese
Remember there is going to be a lot of free updates to GW1 while they're working on GW2 so the team working on maintaining the current game might add more pvp features.
Bankai
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Originally Posted by flamegrilled cheese
Remember there is going to be a lot of free updates to GW1 while they're working on GW2 so the team working on maintaining the current game might add more pvp features.
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