:::POLL::: Soul Reaping Changes :::LLOP::: - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Mesmerman

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

[Penis]

Me/N

05 Apr 2007 at 08:21 - 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anet

* Soul Reaping: now only provides Energy at a maximum rate of once every 5 seconds.

Soul Reaping's synergy with Spirits and minions opened up a lot of builds that simply never ran out of power. Spirits still provide half Energy, and with Soul Reaping's Energy gain limited, a player death will now provide more net Energy, which we believe will help Soul Reaping get closer to its intended function. Mark of Fury was strictly inferior to Dark Fury, so we reduced the cost of Mark of Fury in hopes that this improves its playability. Mark of Subversion was changed to match the duration of Diversion, Shame, Mistrust, and Guilt, which keeps these one-time Hexes consistent with one another. Reckless Haste had its cost increased, and Price of Failure received a duration decrease to make it more difficult to keep these powerful Hexes on a large number of people. Poisoned Heart became cheaper and now recharges faster for some fun, creative play, and Enfeebling Touch has been improved so that it's more in line with other applications of Weakness.

They started a poll over at gwonline.net, I say we do the same here.

Vote Options:
1) Make the change.
2) Leave it Alone.
3) Leave it, but disallow energy from spirits entirely.
4) Other (State)

ss1986v2

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mo/

05 Apr 2007 at 08:26 - 2

Option 5) wait and see what this change actually does in game before making a decision.

until we see this mechanic change first hand, how can we know for certain that its broken or not? the change doesnt even exist yet, so how can i venture a guess at whether it works or not?

give it a week, heck even just 20 minutes, and ill get back to ya. until then, its a moot point.

Mesmerman

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

[Penis]

Me/N

05 Apr 2007 at 08:37 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss1986v2

Option 5) wait and see what this change actually does in game before making a decision.

until we see this mechanic change first hand, how can we know for certain that its broken or not? the change doesnt even exist yet, so how can i venture a guess at whether it works or not?

give it a week, heck even just 20 minutes, and ill get back to ya. until then, its a moot point.

I'd like to do that too, if I didn't know better. If we let Anet do it now, and it sucks ass, there's a good chance we wont see it changed for a while. You know how many months it took them to make HA 8vs8 again? They had to have realized it was a mistake within a week or so.

ss1986v2

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mo/

05 Apr 2007 at 08:40 - 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesmerman

I'd like to do that too, if I didn't know better. If we let Anet do it now, and it sucks ass, there's a good chance we wont see it changed for a while. You know how many months it took them to make HA 8vs8 again? They had to have realized it was a mistake within a week or so.

its not like if we set the board on fire tonight, they will come out tomorrow and go, "never mind. we wont do that." its going to implemented and there is nothing that can be done about it. so ill be checking it out when they do.

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

05 Apr 2007 at 08:44 - 5

It doesn't matter what you think. Soul Reaping is being nerfed, no matter what. It's too overpowered not to be. Even if this change gets revoked for some strange reason (won't ever happen though), a new change to nerf it differently will be implemented.

It's a lost cause, give up. Stop trying to defend something that shouldn't exist in its current form.

Viet Spirit

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2007

R/

05 Apr 2007 at 08:54 - 6

vote for #3

12chars

sixdartbart

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Peace Machine GRRR [DiE]

W/N

05 Apr 2007 at 08:58 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesmerman

If we let Anet do it now

let them?
You really overestimate yourself eh...

Hell Raiser

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

[PHNX]

Mo/

05 Apr 2007 at 08:59 - 8

There is no reason for him not to protest this. As Gaile said; this is only a test week, this is not a for sure addition (however I have no doubt they, or similar changes, will become permanent). If you don't like it, give ArenaNet a valid reason why it is not a viable change.

ArenaNet is trying to balance PvP play with these skill updates, we can acknowledge this. However, with the news of coming Storage upgrades and Hard Mode, PvEers need not complain too much.

Personally I have nothing to comment about the Soul Reaping change, because, quite simply, I have yet to try out the changes. When I do, I will be able to give my opinion.

Sk8tborderx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

PA

Us Are Not [leet]

W/

05 Apr 2007 at 08:59 - 9

I do not get what the big deal is, now necros have to have energy management like everyone else. MM builds will not be affected by the change in any way, just bring consume corpse, and if you do not have prophecies, there are other less effective e management skills you can take.

It seems that the only reason people are upset about it is because their primary attribute will not be overpowered anymore, and they might actually have to *GASP* learn a way to manage energy.

I play a necro, and this nerf will affect me also, just not that much since I always brought energy management skills with me for times when there might be long periods without fighting. SR will still be good, just not horribly overpowered like it was.

Sword

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Mo/

05 Apr 2007 at 09:00 - 10

Soul reaping is insanely overpowered, the fact that you can put together a build with a bunch of spirits and have all necro primary profession that never runs out of energy from soul reaping is a major problem with balance in the game.
Infinite energy from spirits sucks.
The 5 second time limit on soul reaping is intresting .... however i dont think it will fix necro builds in the way that it needs to be. All anet has to do is cut out soul reaping from spirits.

Seraphic Divinity

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Heroes Ascent

Mo/

05 Apr 2007 at 09:03 - 11

SR was -obviously- broken in HA and HvH and was obviously seeing much abuse. Therefore the fact remains that the old SR (current SR), is in fact -bad- which is why A-net is changing it's effect...

So... where do you stand? Because if you think SR is fine now, then no... That's wrong... SR was not meant to be taken to the point where rits and necro's dominate the meta with un-balanced infinite-energy builds...

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

05 Apr 2007 at 09:09 - 12

I'm holding any further concerns about this until I find out exactly how it works. It seems bad.... but other things have seemed bad on paper and ended up okay. Let's not get too terribly overworked about this.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

05 Apr 2007 at 10:19 - 13

obviously #3 - gonna stop all the PvP AND PvE whining. win - win situation

jummeth

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

London

Diary of a Madman [SiKK]

05 Apr 2007 at 10:22 - 14

SR is terribly overpower for both sides of the fence, you just don't witness it in PvE against you. Hence all you got was unlimited energy, who'd complain about that?!

Leave it be until we can play with the update a few hours and then we will know.

Surena

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

N/Me

05 Apr 2007 at 10:23 - 15

Did you, Mesmerman, actually care to read/study WHY SR needed a nerf finally? Did you ever ponder why Minionmaster's were restricted to a fixed number of minions? Since some of you hate PvP** let me tell you that. Any decent MM could just walk through the game without anything every possibly being able to hurt him. With a gigantic army of undead he was practically unstoppable. Of course it annoyed those who sit and relaxed in that godmode, all those lazy players who speak of challenge while facing no challenges at all - but there are things that need to be balanced, if it effects PvE and PvP at the same time - the better.

Edit: **Ok, I confused you with Miragemaster who hates the change because of its PvP-abuse while the same happens in PvE, only harder to note because monsters can't voice their opinion.

countesscorpula

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

Gwen Is [EVIL]

N/

05 Apr 2007 at 10:34 - 16

I think this thread already exists,

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10138885

Albeit with less of a revolutionary/ultimatum tone, if I do say so myself.

I would suggest shutting this one down/redirecting it to the one above... or if a paying member is interested, perhaps build a bonified poll when folks have had a chance to test the alteration.

The Bloodrose

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2006

CA

Dark Order of Innoruuk [DOI]

R/Rt

05 Apr 2007 at 12:02 - 17

People cried and whined about the razah quest. It got changed. So hopefully people will cry and whine about this and Anet will elave it alone. Easy way to fix it. 0 Energy from minions and spirits.

Fender

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Ohio

XoO

05 Apr 2007 at 12:13 - 18

#5 - wait and see

I'm not sure why they picked the 1 per 5 second solution instead of scaling the gain based on relative levels and/or only giving the energy to the 2 nearest necromancers. That would leave PvE pretty much unaffected, but severely limit the energy gained from all necro groups in PvP.

0 energy from minions would be too hard of a nerf for PvE.

The Last Preacher

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

UK

None and looking!

N/

05 Apr 2007 at 12:15 - 19

1, As much as I will hate this for my MM HA is finially fixed.

mafia cyborg

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

05 Apr 2007 at 12:19 - 20

i would nerf it even more.
its overpowered both in pvp and pve.

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

05 Apr 2007 at 12:24 - 21

#2. Without a shadow of a doubt.... there is NOTHING wrong with Soul Reaping. It isn't as if most of the energy gained from it is pooled for later or anything... and it isn't as if there is constantly something dying nearby in all circumstances either. Just because some folks have found clever ways to use it in PvP is no reason to nerf it.... as it isn't even that overpowered. Necro skills are still unspammable thanks to recharge time, and I find that I end up energy-limited in PvE enough besides. That is to say nothing of health-sacrifice.

The crazy thing is that the lowering price of minion skills along with this is just going to mean that Curses necros are getting heavily nerfed while MMs are barely influenced at all. And to think I never used to have trouble taking down a MM with my SS ...

The game becomes ever more unbalanced.

ValaOfTheFens

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Warrior Nation[WN]

05 Apr 2007 at 16:19 - 22

I dunno. The change is completely unnecessary in PvE but pretty much mandatory in PvP. My general exploration build will likely be unaffected but my MM build will probably suffer alot. Animate Bone Fiend costs 25 energy and SR allows me to have enough energy to make another BF by the time the skill rechrages(most of the time anyway). SR is just ok in most PvE situations. If a large mob dies and your energy bar is full then you don't benefit at all from those deaths. Elite areas are the places where SR actually matters(does Tomb count?). In short, early and mid game areas won't really be affected but end game and elite area will likely see a big difference.

I guess I choose option 3. Spirits provide only half the energy and so no Necro really counts on the energy they provide.

pnumm

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2006

Crystal Overlook!

[CPSU]

Rt/R

05 Apr 2007 at 16:27 - 23

#2, there are more ways to kill a team than to put e-denial on them. be creative!

RSGashapon

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Sol 3

R/

05 Apr 2007 at 16:33 - 24

Option 2 times 100!

Katari

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Upstate

Me/

05 Apr 2007 at 16:49 - 25

4: It should have been done well over a year ago. But have no fear! After all, colossal whine posts did get the AoE "nerfs" rolled back...right?

dargon

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2005

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

R/

05 Apr 2007 at 17:06 - 26

Given that the SR change isn't actually in play yet, can we kindly hold off bitching about it till we actually know how it's going to work?
As a side note it doesn't say you only get energy every 5 seconds, it says now only provides Energy at a MAXIMUM rate of once every 5 seconds (emphasis mine). Personally, I take that to mean all other times you get energy like a spirit died, half the normal amount, NOT ZERO.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

05 Apr 2007 at 17:11 - 27

Here's the problem:

SR is exploited in PvP.

SR is vital in PvE.

Balance conundrum.

And if things are going to be as bad as I think they're are, then I'll go with #3. But I'm going to wait until after the test weekend to finally conclude my decision.

Narcism

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

Ottawa, ON, Canada

Mostly Harmless

W/

05 Apr 2007 at 17:19 - 28

1) extra text to get past filter.

icymanipulator

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

05 Apr 2007 at 17:25 - 29

I am with the others in saying its a little premature to be making an opinion until the change has actually taken effect. My 2 cents worth is that it should either be left alone (it has been the same for years and only recently become a problem, not likely). Or restrict the change to PvP only because apparently they can't behave themselves...I know it gets boring killing the same players over and over but come on guys...creative "abuse" hurts both sides of the game.

Nekretaal

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

05 Apr 2007 at 17:26 - 30

Soul reaping wasnt broken in pvp except by spammers of Monk and Ritualist skills.

The real problem is the relationship of healing and protection to damage in this game that forces all kills to be spike.

A couple of months ago, players suggested nerf to divine favor but instead anet trashed inspiration energy and divine boon and introduced an expansion with more powerful skills. The problem seemed to be solved but it wasnt solved, and its apparant now that the community decided that Necormancer and ritualist energy generation solves the problem.

I choose Number 4: anet needs to go back to the drawning board.

My Solution:

(1) Nerf healer's boon's specs at zero divine favor
(2) Bring Back Mantra of Recall and other inspiration energy. Bring back offering of Blood.
(3) Dont Nerf GoLE
(4) Reduce Energy gained from spirit to 1 energy for every 7 points placed in soul reaping
(5) Rebalance Spawning (not Soul reaping) somehow that spawning increases the utility of non-spirit ritualist skills somehow.

In other words, restore the rough parity of energy managment among the casters and balance around that. I believe that with today's good elite options (ZB, DH, SoR, SoD, RC, BL), a monk wouldnt automatically be a mantra of recall, and in any case, assassin buffs and new melee classes and skills dictate that casters need additional energy managment just to keep viability.

tyche7

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Nebraska

The Killer Panda Bears

W/Mo

05 Apr 2007 at 19:11 - 31

Vote for #2
can I vote several hundred times?

Spartan117

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

The Other Hand

W/R

05 Apr 2007 at 21:53 - 32

i vote #2 for PvE and #3 for PvP (hey we might as well try to keep the little ones that play PvP off us for awhile. off those of us who enjoy the game as is without nerfs)

Tea Girl

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Mo/Me

05 Apr 2007 at 22:12 - 33

3) Leave it, but disallow energy from spirits entirely.

+ other people's minions as well. :]

Sidheyuna Aetheris

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

On a mitten surrounded by water.

A New Build Is Available [SPAM]

N/

05 Apr 2007 at 22:17 - 34

I say no energy from spirits, possibly cut minions to half SR return. The update is in place now. Ick. People are worried about PvE MMs, but I'm more concerned about my nonminion builds.

I understand and respect the issues with SR in PvP, but, um, this really hurts in PvE. And yes, I use e-management skills in my builds.

/thumbsdown

Emik

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Belgium

[FaRM] Farm For The Win

N/

05 Apr 2007 at 22:35 - 35

It's working on my nerves that all the replies i see in favor are the ones like "It was too overpowered in PvP" blabla...
The game is not only about PvP...Grow up ffs.
"Balance" is a phenomenon that makes something work in BOTH arms of the game... Not only one.
Remove the spirits benefit and we're all happy.

Legendary Shiz

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

05 Apr 2007 at 22:50 - 36

For the sake of choosing one, I'll choose 3.

However, there's no way to really know how this change is actually going to affect soul reaping or at least to what extent its going to affect it.

Gimme Money Plzkthx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

05 Apr 2007 at 22:57 - 37

Disallow energy from spirits entirely, they shouldn't have "souls". Also, I think they nerfed it a bit into the ground for PvE here. Somewhere I read a suggestion that sounded good: For each attribute point you have in SR, and each time a non-spirit thing dies, give one second of +3 energy regen. That way it's constant, and there's a cap. That should do for MMs, yet make it not so insane in PvP. Either way, I'm just happy the scrubs that use necros in HA can no longer be noobs and farm fame. Too bad it's been going on for so long and they already got r9 off it.

Spartan117

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2007

The Other Hand

W/R

05 Apr 2007 at 23:11 - 38

yeah just get rid of energy from spirits, should make em happier. ( if any devs or moderaters see what weve been agreeing on, please take into accout that what we have been saying is that we will comprimise and will agree on the spirits. please take our comprimise, it will make both sides happier and we can all enjoy our necros better. -Spartan117)

PS. we are being reasonable, there are alot of rits that use spirits and necros do gain energy from it, if any devs or moderators do read my post, please try and have it set to that if SR has to be nerfed. we are like i said, being very reasonable.-Spartan117

PSS. i wasnt joking if you did only have it as a test that i would start learning to program for games and prolly Anet. (take that into account as well please)

berlioz7

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2007

D/

05 Apr 2007 at 23:24 - 39

Put in a 2 vote for me.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

05 Apr 2007 at 23:33 - 40

Well my vote still stands for #3. Even more so after the testing.