State Of My Game: Hero Battles

It's been a couple days now, I've tested with it... and I kinda like it... but not really. I find that Hero Battles are in need of significant change. The idea alone of splitting a 4 man team is very obnoxious, and the continuous capping needs take away from the feel of being in a "1vs1 arena". The whole system seems like clutter and complications upon complications, and before it's too late, I think they should change (slightly) how Hero Battles work to adhere to a more [needed] straightforward approach. I understand the need to make it as little like Team Arenas/RA as possible, but it's so hard to actually have "fun" with the current setup.
Like everything else that sucks in the game, I doubt this will ever change. But the "gimmicky, cluttered" feel of Hero Battles keeps me away and playing other, more "stable" arenas.

Time will tell if Anet feels it needs to be changed, I suppose. It'd be a man giving birth before they'd listen to an individual.

Currently I'm having very little fun with the game. In spite of, or perhaps because of the recent update. Soul Reaping is beyond stupid now, nothing is fun in pvp, and I'm feeling as though it may be time to try another game. Perhaps even LOTR:O. (Don't hate me. :P)

Thanks for sharing.

Is there a bug in Hero Battles because I can't get in to them I have unlocked all the heroes on one of my PVE chars, travel to the PVP isle and they don't come up and I can't for the life of me figure out what I'm meant to do to make them appear.

I did a few Hero Battles yesterday. No fun at all. They really should just rename it into "PvP for Runners" because there is barely any combat at all, everyone just runs around the shrines and flees if you engage them.

I liked the original where combat was actually a bigger part of the arena. Also the stupid AI doesn't help as it seems to chase people for eternity now when I just want them to sit at a shrine (even on Guard).

In short, too much micro-management and running, not enough combat. No fun.

Absolutely, the idea of capping point is good but not for this type of combat. In fact, I don’t even know why it’s called “Heroes Battle” because there is no battle at all. Peoples only running around and flee when engaging. Because the capping points are a so important part for your victory, no one care about combat and focus only on defence to cap altars and hold it until the end of the timer. It’s horrible and not fun at all.

For sure, the 1vs1 idea is not really possible because some class like monks would have no chance at all to kill anyone. But, while using heroes, the battles would be a LOT more interesting if it was team elimination like what we do in team arena. At least, it would open the door to player’s skills and tactical choices more that who run the faster.

I found hero battles to be rather crappy for quite some time. Now its rated crappiness.

The thing that makes me feel ill is that anet are giving away $100,000 to someone for playing hero battles, its just a title grinding arena that nobody takes seriously.

well, at least /roll stopped, and i had quite fun with my little build (which is intentionally very bad, but still gets wins, sigh)

One of the main reason for playing GW is the interaction with real players and team mates/guildies instead of some AI Hero.

For this reason I will never make one single step in HvH. Even PvE (with real players) is more fun.

Hero battles are a complete waste of time. Whats the point in them when you can't even dp your opponent. It has nothing to do with how well you play, its down to how lucky you were when running around capping with your monks healing/protting.

Until they add dp to this place i'm just not gonna waste my time with it.

Thinking about that myself...might recognize the name if you like LotR. I was in the beta for the game and liked it so I'll probably end up taking a break of guild wars for a few months.

its dumb, it might be better if they add different objectives on different arenas, dont really understand why/how anet didnt think of that..


PS they dont think at all..?

It's a different game mode, and it requires different tactics. Complaining about runners in HvH without bringing snares and runners yourself while fully aware that CAPPING SHRINES IS HALF THE GAME is equivalent to playing GvG and complaining that the opposing team brings a flag runner when you don't have one, or playing in HA without running skill(s) and interrupts for the ghostly. It's NOT, as you all seem to think, a 1v1 random arena, and it was never designed to be one. Statements like:
just show that you are entering the HvH arena expecting it to be something it is not. The very title track dedicated to HvH is "Commander", as opposed to "Gladiator". One implies leading your team of heros by telling them where to go and what to do, the other implies smashing face as best as possible.

Hero battles are fine, they take strategy, a different kind of strategy than other arenas. Those who have seized upon that idea are doing quite well and having a lot of fun (myself included). The idea of a personal ladder is just icing on the cake. Those who refuse to split, who complain about runners, and in general think HvH should just be a 1v1 random arena...well, put it this way. You sound like a wammo whining at me that my cripshot ranger is "cheap" in 1v1. It's not cheap; I came prepared to face what I knew I'd be fighting, he just wanted to smash face. The same thing applies here.


Offtopic: OP, if you think gaining 12 energy every 5 seconds is "beyond stupid", you need your head checked. Soul reaping still works perfectly fine in PvE; in 95% of battles I don't even notice the change, and I still have better energy management than any other primary class (bar possibly the ranger).

Make it like TA with minor additional objectives and I'll play it. Running around is not fun.

Altar caps are ftl.

I think it's sorta fun, but it involves too much running

HvH right now isn't about PvP. It's about: How to abuse AI as hard as possible. Take the skills the AI likes to use( right now, spirits&interrupts ) and cram it up. GG "pro skillz"

Disclaimer: I've been playing HvH often enough to get rank 300+ so I'm not just some guy complaining about it because I suck or only played it once or twice. Not that I'm saying that others in this thread are...

I pretty much agree with what everyone has said here. The running sucks. It wouldnt be so bad if it wasnt the same objective in every match. What they need are different objectives. I have been in so many matches where I literally only fought and killed twice and still won because I just focused on running.

Heck, I've even won because I chased an assassin the WHOLE ENTIRE MATCH, while I capped other shrines with my heroes and he was too stupid to move his 3 heroes from center shrine at all. The whole time that I was chasing him (I chased him so he couldnt cap anything) I asked myself, "Is this fun?" The answer is no. So why do I keep playing it? Maybe I'm a sadist.

they could at least add a little variety, a random pick between kill count, shrine run ,normal pvp, etc..

I want to play GW not command & conquer =(

Having a different strategy is good but when its boring...well.... they need to do something. I like the idea of a variety of maps. At least 3 different types of maps/victory conditions would be nice. A normal kill count like in RA (rez every 30 secs), a relice run, shrine map (like now), annihilation map, priest map. Just suggestions, dont have to be all those.

1v1 hero battles has potential ....but the way its implemnted its not fun at all.
all these Shrines......basically force you to play either D or A.....often leavin your heroes holdin a shrine.....and then its all about tedious runnin up and down.
also shrines seem too distant one to the other......and they fly off the radar ( u cant see them on minimap)....i wanted to send an hero to a chokepoint to slow down the runner .....but the chokepoint was out of my minimap so i couldnt flag him there.
why not have different maps? some with shrines (for runners) and some without(just fight build vs build)......or some other idea......but this shrine run dont seem much fun to me.(especially for the casual player).
on another note.....GW is not really suited for hero battles.......cos of the view (zoomin out should get u 90 degrees on top to optimize screen space) and cos of the way heroes are controlled(flags)......look at wc3 how heroes should be controlled and what kinda view u need.

It comes down to playing the arena the way it is meant to be played, not expecting it to be "like something else."

It's not a game about "team vs team, direct combat." There is a reason we're given hero flags, and multiple objectives, there is a reason the title is called "Commander" and not "Gladiator" (as we previously mentioned.)

Can you concentrate enough to run four builds at once? (or at least four characters?) Can you balance multiple objectives and skirmishes at the same time? If this isn't something that appeals to you, don't play it, because that _is_ what the HvH arena is about.

Maybe I can blame the military and say such things are just apart about my thought process so I don't see why its a "bad thing." I don't know. I see the arena for what it is, and I enjoy it.

It _is_ a game of tactics, despite the fact many want to cheapen it by calling it "running." Before you even enter a match, you have to pick a team.

Now, for many, the meta seems to be a defensive Rit, an Assassin, A monk and either another monk or a Necro. The player will cap his shrines and then set up camp at the Center shrine and try to lure his opponent into a fight which his holding build will usually triumph.

Maybe that's why people are dismissing it so easily, I don't know. Personally, I look at it as a series of objectives and skirmishes, and I refuse to get into large battles unless I can easily win.

I run two Heroes with builds that work easily for the AI and are able to survive independently. That means (as much as "regular" PvP looks down on it) a Touch Ranger and a Mending Whammo. They do what I need them to do: mobile builds that can survive most 1v1 skirmishes. They are my shrine-cappers, so they need to be able to do that.

Then I play an Assassin with a ZB Prot Monk AI. The goal of those two is to actively seek out skirmishes. My Toucher and Whammo can survive on their own. So if the opponent sends out one (or better yet two) heroes after one of them, that leaves his "main" force diminished (read: Divide and Conquer), at which point I move in with my Assassin and Monk.

The Monk is mostly a psychological element. Lots of people believe the key to taking down a group is to drop the monk first. So they go after the ZB Prot (with channeling), which as long as it is not TOO overwhelmed, can keep itself going. Meanwhile, my Assassin (NOT an SP/BoA) is dropping stragglers left and right.

If I happen to catch a stray with my Assassin, well, it does the job the profession was created for too.

So, I have a multitude of shrines capped AND I'm getting kills. It usually proves effective. Granted some builds take me down hard, or at least give me a headache, but let's face it, that's the point of Guild Wars. Any build has its Achilles Heel.

The fault I see many doing is trying to build a team that synergies well together, but falls apart quickly if it has to split up. An example of that would be the three Searing Flames eles with a Prot monk. Powerful, yes, but weak once apart.

The idea is to create a team that is mobile, independent AND capable of working cohesively together. Do that and you won't see the "running" or "lack of tactics."

zoom out the minimap with the mousewheel, like this:



and far away shrines always show up on the border of the radar, so you can easily send heros there.

I dont dispute that it does take tactis and positioning. However, when the maps are the same with the same objectives then it just becomes that it's the same basic strategy and same basic builds (asassins + defensive heroes) being used over and over again.

It no longer becomes strategy and tactics anymore, it then becomes routine. Changing up objectives in different maps is the real way to test your skills. Just look at how everyone has the same builds and same tactics in HvH right now. Not really skill is it?

Tried it, thought it was gonna be like one of those zaishen challenge things, seems so did the other guy, lol. Was 9-4 up and thinking this is easy thanks to all the zaishen training, then noticed after dying I had no dp and got bored. Fortunatley it was an unrated battle so no gain or loss and after reading this thread I see no point in doing it again, YAWN!

it no doubt requires skill and such.....it just aint fun.
also why play this GW hero battle when u can play wc3 ,w4k,starcraft etc.....in those games yes u can have full control of heroes , map control, etc etc....also the controls are x10 better (exp: u select a unit and move it....not flag!) and u can micro them good on screen....u can group units..etc
hero battles feels frustrating to play cos it tries to do somethin the game engine is not designed to do. the view from above should go as close to 90 degress as possible (instead it stops at 60-70 degrees) .....half of screen space is wasted......u should be able to control heroes on screen.....
trust me....try something like wc3......then try hero battles....and u'll understand why its no good.
basically u're tryin to play an RTS on an interface that fights with the RTS concept. maybe in gw2 they'll improve this......but as for now i would concentrate in makin the hero battles intuitive and fun.
i'd like to log onto GW and have a fight....make a good build....se if i score more kills than the opponent and leave it at that....not get frustrated tryin to play an RTS when i got some proper RTS on my computer.....which devastate hero battles in terms of depth and fun factor.

I have to say that the man is right. Hero Battles are NOT your standard PvP. I used to love and be good at RTS games before Guild Wars came along. I like hero battles because it requires tactics, something normal Guild Wars play doesn't. Intense micromanagement and strategy. You can recover from your losses and still come out on top, with proper planning and execution- the execution of your strategy is very important. My only problem is the lame spirirt spam holding builds- They are just lame and overpowered.

Q, you're right on most points, but that's a sure fire way to getting a ban.

There is no doubt it takes a lot of skill to be the best at this, the problem is that the skill it takes is a boring way to play for me and it seems lots of others too.

I have now made it my objective to obtain the lowest rating possible XD

<---862 rating at the moment, rank 23,583

losing hero battles is more fun than winning

edit: also saying that no changes should be made because thats how it was supposed to be, is like saying HA shouldnt be changed because thats the way it was designed. But HA was changed and HvH should be changed.

Haha cool rating, Pajamas. Q, You made some good points but take out the personal attacks.

Back on topic, I have been hovering around rank 300+ but I think it's time for me to give up on it. The sheer frustration of losing to clearly overpowered HB builds built to take advantage of the flawed HB mechanics isnt fun.

I especially hate that one map where assassins can easily port from the center shrine to the NPC shrine since they're right next to each other. How could they have overlooked that obvious flaw?

Ah well. My HB experimentation is over for now until it's no longer a cesspool. I'll never complain about HA or GvG again. Well...not as much.

Just to clear up this analogy so it doesn't sound like "It's not broke, but fix it anyway."

You're saying that although it is performing in the manner it was designed for, that original concept is where the problem lies, correct?

hero battles should be like TA.
cos thats what ppl want....a way to fight in arenas with heroes.
Anet if u r so in love with this shrine crap .....at least let us bring heroes in TA!
give us a place to fight with heroes pls! maybe make 2 modes.....RTS one and Arena one. everyone happy that way.

It should be like King of the Hill. That might promote holding builds, but atleast it will cause people to be more creative. Rather than making each hero just a runner.

I found Hero battles quite amusing, but the only thing that destroys everything is Shadow prison and Spirits.

Mmmm yea that sounds good

I disagree, I like the original concept.

Thank to Hero Battles so Random Arena is no longer dumbest and worst pvp in the game.

Hmmm, wouldn't continuous deliberate losing lower your rating so much that once you decide to play for real, you'll probably be smashing crap players into the dust?

I rather it be closer to AB

Get 70 points, you get points for capping but even more for killing like maybe 4 points a kill

I'm still blown away that ANet are taking Hero Battles so seriously.

Solution to make Hero Battles more fun and more tactical:

1. Delete shrines.
2. Profit.

I was able to just use a BoA sin with Dash throughout all of my wins (7 in a row at one point). That is not skilled. The fact that I can get rewarded for that is disgusting.