GWEN Skills?

Rapid Fire would likely scale. Add a Rit weapon spell to it and now we're cooking.

Maybe even with needling shot...

sry but i think that most of this skills sucks badly:`(

At least on the Mesmer side of things it appears once again some un original thinking. Izzy must be overworked (poor Izzy we blame him for everything) because nothing seems original or new. None of the new Mesmer skills listed are AOE and that only hurts the Mesmer more on the PvE side of things and that is one thing surly lacking for the class. I would love to see some mass AOE skills like what Necromancers have in Curses. Maybe some mass Illusion spells or mass Domination spells. Domination does not always have to be skill interrupts.

For example ...

Slow to Start (Domination ELITE)
E 15 C 1 R 45
Target Foe and nearby Foes are Hexed with Slow to Start. Target foes are crippled for 3-10 seconds or until Slow to Start ends. Slow to Start is reapplied every time the target stops moving.

Mass Hysteria (Illusion ELITE)
E 25 C 1 R 30
Target Foe and adjacent Foes suffer 3-6 pips of degeneration for 6-18 seconds while moving or attacking. If anyone hexed with Mass Hysteria stops moving or attacking they suffer a deep wound for 6-18 seconds or until Mass Hysteria ends. When Mass Hysteria ends thoes affected by Mass Hysteria lose all conditions.

The above would be a some great examples of an Illusion and Domination Elites instead of the standered one shot target attacks.

I agree. I mean some of these skills are alright, but none of them are really new, exciting, or original

if cracked armor lowers the foe's base armor then you could use Rapid Fire + One of the Conjure X (ex. flame, frost...) and then use that Ele skill with cracked armor. SHAZAM! That becomes pretty good damage. And plus there are a lot of great Weapon Spells to load up on.

Mass Hexing = Necro's Job
AoE damage = Elementalist's Job

Mesmer *can* do both of that, but don't expect it to be the best (or very good) at them.

And how dare you started your reply with "this is so unoriginal" when you suggest turning a class into another class?

that would be like saying ritualist's job is to raise spirits, and leave healing to monks and dmg to air ele.

seriously... i feel that mesmer should have more aoe hex / dmg too... like
energy surge, hex eater vortex, panic, fevered dreams etc

Actually those 2 skills are very original and I like them.

And how dare you criticize this person for thinking of some useful, yet original skills that fit perfectly with a mesmer. There are no skills like either of those in Necro except the mass hex part, and how on earth are those skills anything like an elementalist spell?

Then please explain the ritualist profession, they can heal better than a heal monk, and they can do more spike damage than an ele. If ANET had your thinking, one of the most versatile classes in the game would have never been thought up, or have been severely gimped by limiting them to raising spirits.

Please look at the skills of other professions, you will find out that the ele is NOT the only one with aoe skills, it is people thinking like you that some classes are simply not wanted because they think that only 1 class can do a certain job.

Which part of "Mesmer *can* do both of that" you two don't understand?

I never say any other classes shouldn't *be able to* do those stuff. What I tried to say is it's expected, game mechanic-wise, that mesmer shouldn't be too good at mass hexing or AoE damage.

A Ritualist *can* be a better healer than monk IF (and a big one at that) the conditions of their healing skills are met. Divine Favor alone makes the monk a lot better healer than any other class, if not the best.

I've never said anything about spiking. I think I specifically said *AoE*, no?

Your Rt may be a better healer than my monk, but that would be because I suck at playing monk, and you're good at playing your Rt, that's all.

whether it'll be a good expansion for mesmers it all depends on fast casting skills .
some good skills exclusive to mesmer.

something like this
DONT EVEN TRY - enhanc- for 10 secs next time you would be unterrupted ....the interrupt fails and attacker takes x damage
INSTANT THOUGHT(elite) -stance- next spell can be cast with no castin time. (50% chance with fast castin under 5)

These could also be the PvE only skills they are going to add.

Actually the Mesmer has a few AoE spells but they are few and far between. The AoE spells they do have are not in the league of an Elementalist. Most domination spells are simple energy to damage counters. There is more to domination then countering skills and spells.

As for the Illusion part I can't recall very many AoE Illusions outside of Fevered Dreams. Most Illusions are single target spells and there are better options for Mass degen then most Illusion spells out there. Degen is a fundamental part of Illusion spell magic.

For example:
Rotting Flesh (Necromancer Death Magic)
E 15 A 3 R 3
Spell. Target fleshy creature becomes Diseased (-4 pips of degen spreadable) for 10...22 seconds and slowly loses Health.

This is a great example of a mass degen spell. Yes there are plenty of counters to conditions but its still 4 pips of degen spread able vs. the standard Mesmer Degen spell of

Conjure Phantasm (Mesmer Illusion Magic)
E 15 A 1 R 5
Hex Spell. For 2...12 seconds, target foe experiences -5 Health degeneration.

In a PvE group what would you go with? Quite simply there are few good Mesmer AoE spells that make the class desirable in PvE. A Necro can do the same things a Mesmer can (degen, punish player actions, etc.) except interrupt, and a Necro can do (degen, punish player actions, etc.) better.

I did not mean for this to turn into a Buff the Mesmer page but please ANET you can do better than what you have listed so far for the last and final Mesmer skills for GW1. After these skills go out there will be no more skills for the Mesmer class, please please please make it count this time.

First of all, the line you quoted is my reply to some people who said that Rt can spike better than an Ele (I don't know if it's true, but I tried to point out that I wasn't talking about spiking at all).

For your message about how mesmer has a few AoE spells: Yes, and it's intended to be that way.

EDIT: And Conjure Phantasm costs 10 Energy, no?

Well, lets take a look at the figures:

Let's look at mesmer:

Domination
Chaos Storm
Cry of Frustration
Energy Surge
Hex Eater Vortex
Mirror of Disenchantment
Mistrust
Panic
Shatter Hex
Signet of Weariness
Spiritual Pain


10 out of 40 domination skills are aoe type: Effectively 25%

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Illusion
Air of Disenchantment
Ancestor's Visage
Fevered Dreams
Shared Burden
Soothing Images
Sympathetic Visage

6 out of 28 illusion skills are aoe type: 22%

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Let's look at Necromancer

Blood
Dark Fury
Mark of Fury
Oppressive Gaze
Order of Pain
Order of the Vampire
Signet of Agony
Unholy Feast
Vampiric Spirit
Vampiric Swarm
Well of Blood
Well of Power

11 out of 39 blood skills are aoe type: 28%

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Curses
Chilblains
Defile Enchantments
Depravity
Desecrate Enchantments
Enfeebling Blood
Feast of Corruption
Mark of Pain
Meekness
Order of Apostasy
Plague Sending
Poisoned Heart
Reckless Haste
Shadow of Fear
Spiteful Spirit
Suffering
Ulcerous Lungs
Vocal Minority
Well of Darkness
Well of Silence
Well of Weariness

20 out of 45 curses skills are aoe type: 44%

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Death
Blood of the Master
Contagion
Dark Aura
Death Nova
Deathly Swarm
Feast for the Dead
Necrotic Traversal
Order of Undeath
Putrid Explosion
Putrid Flesh
Rising Bile
Verata's Aura
Verata's Sacrifice
Well of Suffering
Well of Profane

15 out of 40 illusion skills are aoe type: 38%

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Necromancer 36.6% ... Mesmer 23.5%

This will fit into a range of 30 +/- 7

That mean if i'm using a statistic significance of 10%, there is no difference between AoE number of spells between Necro and Mesmer. However, there will be a slight difference under 5% significance.

The above calculations is simplified to take into account any AoE skills, rather than just AoE hexes. Attributes used are attributes that are mainly used as a core attribute for dmg / hexes, hence of such ... attributes such as fast casting, soul reaping are ignored.


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Let's take a look at healing base. Monk vs Ritualist

Assuming that the monk has the best possible healing
16 Healing attribute / 15 Divine attribute.

15 x 3.2 = 48 extra passive healing power.

Ethereal Light: 105 + 48 = 153
Gift of Health: 159 + 48 = 207
Glimmer of Light: 89 + 48 = 137
Heal Area: 190
Heal Other: 190 + 48 = 238
Heal Party: 84
Healing Burst: 158 + 48 = 206
Healing Light: 104 + 48 = 152
Healing Touch: 63 + 2(48) = 159
Healing Whisper: 104 + 48 = 152
Light of Deliverance: 84
Orison of Healing: 73 + 48 = 121
Signet of Rejuvenation: 2(79) = 158
Word of Healing: 2(106) + 48 = 260
Words of Comfort: 63 + 47 + 48 = 158


Average Heal = 178
Min & Highest Heal = 121 , 260 respectively

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Assuming that the Ritualist has 16 Restoration / 0 Spawning Attribution

Ghostmirror Light: 95 x 2 person
Life Spirit: 140
Mend Body and Soul: 141
Soothing Memories: 106
Spirit Light: 188
Spirit Light Weapon: 2(16) X 10 = 320
Spirit Transfer: 265
Wielder's Boon: 63 + 79 = 142

Average Heal = 175
Min & Highest Heal = 95 , 265 respectively.

Looking at the data, I think it's hard to argue that monk heals more. But the difference is that you will be basically be maxing out 2 of monk's attributes + using 2 superior runes to get the same heal power as a ritualist.

A ritualist can get away with the same heal power by maxing out 1 attribute + using 1 superior rune. Effectively, he can use the remaining attributes for other things.

Lots of skills have conditions to be met. Eg. Word of Healing, which incidentally have the highest heal power in monk's skills. Gift of Health is another example. In order to get a high healing skill with no conditions to be met, 10e is needed to be sacrificed. Other skills with no conditions to be met have a Target Other Ally instead.

Yes it does a simple typo of course.

I'm not completely sure, but even if ritualists can heal in larger chunks than a monk, the efficiency of monk heals (considering cast time and cool down) (I feel) are far greater.

And whatever happened to chaos storm >.>. I only remember using it WAY before the AoE nerf, and I know it's not used in PvP either, so should they be considering a complete rework of it?

Well, unless the monk uses holy haste or HB, the casting time is roughly the same.
most of the monk skills are 3/4 to 1 sec casting time, with an average recharge of 4 sec.

ritualist skills are 1 sec, except mend body and soul which is 3/4.
to me, 1/4 - 1/2 is roughly the same ..... 3/4 and 1 sec is about the same.
but there is a difference between 1/2 and 1 sec.

blame it on my poor reflexes. i like playing mesmer too ... but my ping and my reflexes doesn't allow me to interrupt those pesky 1 sec timing skills. nowadays, i just assign norgu for these type of things... gotta love heroes' interrupt speed..


chaos storm... it's supposed to be good in theory wise. unfortunately, it sux in both pvp and pve, making it a neither here nor there skill.

going into fow, i've seen casters casting in chaos storm and not moving. when asked, they say they have more than enough energy to last through than try attempt to recast the skill. dmg wise to health, its pathetic enough that the monk doesn't even try to heal it lol.

Your healing calculation failed the minute you ignore Monk's ability to use Healer's Boon or Divine Boon, or how you ignore the casting cost of spells, etc etc.

And when you compared Mesmer's AoE ability (or mass hexing, since that's the point I made) with that of Necro, why on earth did you take Blood of the Master, Well of Blood OR Well of Power into account? Hell, Blood of the Master isn't even AoE.

Maybe I've misunderstood, but when I said "Mass Hexing" earlier (and how Necro can do it better than mesmer), I was refering to just that, "Mass Hex" spells (or a hex spell with low recharge time which let you spread it over to many foes easily), I don't take into account the ability to deal damage to multiple target at once (That's AoE damage spells, which I compared to those of Elementalist), OR mass healing (which totally not what I'm talking about here).

Not to mention the fact that you haven't disprove what I've said (which was, Necro is better at "Mass Hexing" than mesmer), yet.

let's not kid ourselves...

1. how many healing monks did u see carry divine boon around?
2. healer's boon works great, but once u get killed and ress, u have a hard time getting energy to heal ur party. rit. works great with OoS. self-efficient. No blood rituals needed. the only place i've seen HB in demand is in DoA, and they have a BiPer.
even a Mo/E with glyph of lesser energy can only cast 2x before running flat out of energy.
3. just in case u failed to look at the casting cost of spells, all of rit heal spells are 5e, except spirit heal which is 10e. average rechg time is 4sec

this compared to monk's healing skills which is either 5e or 10e based, target-other ally types.

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For the response on AoE, I'm taking into account of all AoE effects. Wells provide an area-size effect in case ur too busy to cast divine boon to noticed. In order to make the sampling statistics as close to target as possible, i need to take into account of it, else it will be a sampling error.

btw, when u look at my posting, i said mesmer should have aoe hexing, dmg too.

even other professions like smiting monks have balthazar's aura, rangers have traps, ritualist have destruction spirit, warrior have 100 blades, etc.

I did not disprove of what u said coz i am not sure which side of the fence i wanna sit on yet.
reason: mesmer have both hexes aoe, hexes on individual, as well as anti-hex skills like reveal hex, inspired hex, shattered hex, hex vortex, hex breaker etc. As of such, i'm more inclined to believe mesmer is the opposite of necro, which is anti-hex. but that doesn't stop players from wanting more aoe hex / dmg skills rite?

btw... we are trangressing over the initial OP title... let's just keep to GWEN skills.

Cracked Armor, as a condition? I'm sorry, but thats kind of silly... monks will be able to repair armour with condition removal spell now ? I really hope its a hex effect instead of a condition. It just doesn't make sense since all current conditions effect the human body.

Awful name, it's a severe disease, which can cause death, what will they introduce in GW2? Cancer, AIDS, trombosys?

Please remove such references to real life diseases in a videogame, these aren't things to joke about.

No.

Elementalist's job = AoE Direct damage.

Necro's job = minions, life leech, support with blood spells, dispel enchantments, Paragons's shutdown, AoE empathy and even interrupt...

Currently necro can do perfectly well its roles but also mesmers's role.

Giving Mesmer some AoE conditional damage or AoE hexes could help him without denaturing the class.

If a class is turning into another since NF, it is the necro, not the mesmer.

Thank you!I'll be here all night!

LMAO I think you never played an ele
Water is not here for a massive aoe damage... and Air AIR MAN AIR YOU KNOW WHAT AIR IS ? where do you see aoe damage in the air element ? N O W H E R E -_- Ele's job is to do the other's job : we can heal, we can play as sins, we can do everything with our large energy pool and earth protection if need be

Psst mate, no AoE in air magic ?

Chain Lightning, Invoke Lightning

and, no AoE in water magic ?

Deep Freeze, Ice spikes ^^

and that are just those I recall from my head now
(and yes I have an ele, infact it's my main ^^)

these skills are OBVIOUSLY not the entire list of skills that will be in GW:en.. we already know there are more skills coming...

not to mention the 'end result' will be completely different than the 'beta' version... so I dont know what everyone is complaining about.

Just because a line has 1-2 AoE spells doesn't mean it's for AoE. If you want mass AoE damage, you use the fire line. Water line for some crowd control, deep freeze + maelstrom is a nice combo but costs a ton of energy.

*sigh* when using water snare I use Elemental Attunement and Water Attunement, making every water skill cost nearly 0 energy so there goes your theory for that.
That being said, why not wait with a discussion like this untill GW:EN is released .

Well the problem is that Cacophany is both overpowered and completely useless. It certainly is overpowered against anyone using shouts. It can be kept constantly on one character shutting him down effectively. But any other time it's completely useless.

There's far too many skills and mechanics that are "all or nothing" Shouts can't be stripped and are possibly too good because of that, but creating a skill like Cacophany that totally destroys it is bad design.

There should be more shout counters that have other uses as well but don't totally destroy shout users instead of an "all or nothing" skill like Cacophany. Make better shout counters, Anet, instead of one trick heavy handed counters.

Umm....Before you talk about Cacophany...we already have "Vocal Minority" that completely makes you not able to cast them..instead of just taking dmg for it. It has 5 more rehcarge, but is AoE spread and casts faster.

That Mesmer hex

Anerusym or whatever
PLeaste let it be elite I dont want some

E denial mesmer super spiking because of fast casting

energy tap, energy surge, energy burn, anerwhatever. Good lord that would suck.

That assassin deadly arts dual.....Thats a spell right if it is omfg nice.
Dancing daggers mantis touch entangling asp, Signet of toxic shock, Thingy, Impale....kinda lengthy tho, but so was BOA.

Cacophany, warrior and Paragon hurting only, warriors dont have that many shouts so not a big deal, and Paragons have little skills which means even if they have a lot of shouts its not actually a lot -_-.

I wonder how these things will scale

IF Assassins thirst (lol I remembered) Scales nicely to maybe steal 35 at 12 and 55 at 16 I'd be happy as long as it actually hits twice.

Hmm...I bet a B/P group with a Rt/Me using [skill]Wailing Weapon[/skill] with Inadequacy could really do some damage, especially if the rit was bringing Splinter Weapon as well.

Also, I almost thought that Winter's Embrace might be a good snare for a W/E, but I think this depends on wether you will still be snared if your target's hex gets removed. If the snare effect doesn't come off you when the hex is taken off your foe, then this is worthless, but if not, there might be some good potential for a good KD build...

Depending on how high it scales, Aneurysm seems like a cool spell. As long as it scales to 4-5 it can be quite dangerous (5 would actually be insane...skip that).

An Aneurysm is not a disease! Its the bursting of a weakened blood vessel and can be properly treated if caught in time. And who said that the skill represented a joke?

Climb down from the clouds once in a while.

Imagine against an ele with no energy. 4 x ~90 = 360 damage....ouch

Now if its a max of 3 and the ele has a somewhat low max energy of ~70
3 x 70 = 210 damage


That skill may hurt O_O

Assassin's Thirst 5e 8r - Dual Attack. Must follow an off-hand attack. If this attack hits, you steal 14 Health. Deadly Arts

That is a dual attack that needs to follow an off-hand attack. Just like every other dual attack.

As an ele primary myself i rarely let my energy go as low as to 10 or 20 except in pve where currently there isn't this skill and if in GW:EN there will be, I can prepare and take the mesmer down first (as I always do anyway).

About Assassin's thirst, does the life steal occur twice or more if you double strike/dual?

Probly the same way as Shattering Assualt, which I dont know about.