Does Anet listen to PVE or PVP players more?

Who do you feel that Anet listens to more when making descisions on game changes?

I don't think there's been a PvE related skill balance since the release of Nightfall. Almost all skill balances have had PvP origins.

Soul Reaping.

There was a PvE related skill balance.

Otoguh's Cry

PvE and its not even close. The bulk of the content in this game is PvE related. PvP gets some much needed skill balances and in about 1 million threads, this being one of them, PvEers begin to moan about how anet doesn't love them. Please, we don't need yet another one of these threads can't we just join the discussion elsewhere or merge this with something else like,

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10139655

Because PvE does not need more buff. You can bring mending and Cyclone axe and still get the same results with or without them.

PvE only needs nerfing because players always find a way to play the game easier and faster (farming builds like 55 monk).

And to say SR was a PvP origin is only half right.

It has been known for a while - since MM was introduced that it was broken - especially for PvE since you can just blow through a mission with 3-4 players instead of 8.

ANet just looked the other way because PvErs NEVER complains about imba skill. Actually, PvE LOVES broken mechanics in the game. They can exploit it for faster loot drop. They will complain about underpowered skills but never imba.

SR was only nerfed because hexes and other Necro builds finally made PvP stagnant and flawed.

It depends what you're getting at. If you're talking about skill balances, then it's PvP. Skill balances make or break PvP gameplay, while it has less of an impact in PvE, so it's natural that they need to listen to the PvP community.

Whether the devs actually listen to the players is another topic.

They listen to both. I don't think they prefer a group of players. At the moment they focus on PvP-Players, but with the Hard-mode, this focus will change.

Yes, it does matter what you are talking about, when it comes to skill adjustments its PvP and rightly so. Everything else its PvE, and in general PvE is the main focus for content.

Having been here since original release, I'd say they listen to both equally. There are times when the focus has been PvP, and then times where it's PvE. Nowadays it seems like PvE is getting the most focus; but I so remember the times where the PvE players were feeling left out in the cold, especially during the long draught leading up to and for many months after Factions was released. It comes and goes, like the seasons.

pvp obviously.

Members of top pvp guild knew that this soul reaping nerf was coming, because they were consulted about the change and/or alphatested the change.

No PvE player has that kind of input.

Anet listens to PvPers more on skill balances - otherwise, Mesmer PvE play would have been fixed in the Betas.

My question is who really pays the bills - PvP or PvE players? All anet needs to do to keep PvP alive is release a Developer Pack and allow people to make their own PvP maps and host their own servers - then the community would take care of itself (see Counter Strike).

Pve is often rated as much easier. Like was mentioned, you can complete most of the game with Mending (PRO SKILL!) on you. Some people might insult you and call you a noob, but you can do it. In PvP, you would get laughed out of whichever arena you were in.

So it's clear that, if ANet want to keep the PvPers going, they should listen to them. Afterall, most of the nerfs they make "accidentally" to popular PvE skills are "loopholed" around, or beaten, pretty fast.

A quick example is the changes to Spirit Bond, and even Shield of Absorption. Both changes made these skills hard to use, but they are still in use for farming or general healing/protection in BOTH PvP and PvE game types, although it is pretty clear both were modified for their over-poweredness in PvP (the cast time on SoA, the effectiveness on SpiritBond)

This topic could get nasty for flaming...

I personally believe they cater more toward the PvP aspect of the game. PvE is without a doubt easier than PvP because you aren't facing real people. There is less of a need for balance.

*Puts on flame shield*

NOTE: I am more of a PvE player btw

Um... no it's not.

The only nerfs that were made because of PvE since the launch of GW are:
1. Prot bond
2. Spirit bond
3. (possibly) Minion cap

It takes a lot more for a build to be labelled as "abused" in PvE because PvE inherently has a much wider acceptability bracket. The threshold for success is low - you can complete all missions + bonuses, etc with mending and riposte on your bar. (Hell, you can probably do it with no skills on your bar at all.) At the same time the threshold for abuse is high. Efficient builds are merely efficient... all they do is let you complete the mission faster than you would with a mending wammo. Abusive builds from anet's point of view are ones that let you farm absurd amounts of money with no skill or effort involved - riversite tengu farming, 55 prot bond monk, PS/SB harvest temple farming. Out of these the tengu build didn't even result in a skill nerf: anet simply fixed mobs and drops in the area to make it unattractive.

Basically, imbalance does not hurt PvE until it becomes extreme, destroys the economy, or becomes so widespread that the game turns into a joke even for the lower-end players. Imbalance hurts PvP because you get to feel the imbalance, rather than the monsters. When an unfair build is used against monsters, it's not a problem. Against players it is.

As for the minion cap, I said "possibly" because MMs were nerfed in response to their abuse in AB, not in PvE. They were retardedstupidbroken in PvE since release and weren't touched until factions, which is when AB came out. Although a case can be made for PvE here, it's not a very strong one IMO.

Wrong. There are many PvEers in alpha, probably a huge majority since anet purged most of the pvpers because of whining.

As for game balance, of course they listen to the pvp community more and specifically the high end gvg community. The pvp community cares about balance and knows what it means. Heck, the whole reason people become a part of the pvp community is by demonstrated skill (and presumably understanding) at the game.

90% of pvers don't give a damn about balance as long as they get their shiny drops. The pve community is why dev time gets allocated to worthless diversions like minipets, weekend events, and doa instead of balancing the game or adding content with any depth.

If they added jumping, elves, ultima, and epic mounts most pveers would be good for another several thousand hours of grinding. PvPers, on the other hand, won't be happy until GW reaches its potential as a balanced, skill based competitive game.

When talking about balance concerns, definitely, the focus is un PvP. As far as content development goes, though, PvE gets the vast majority of the budget.

Peace,
-CxE

Completely pointless topic. It's pointless to point fingers at who is responsible for what. Especially when the game is BOTH PVE and PVP. Anyone who bought the game knew the game was PVE and PVP. Getting ticked off at how one or the other gets affected by the other is also pointless.

Do you really think ANET could possibly have a complete bias for one side? GW is their baby. You can be damn sure they'll make all aspects of it as good as possible.

I believe that they listen to both sides equally. Regardless if skill balances throws some PvE builds out of whack or the Hall of heroes controlling PvE endgame areas. Both sides are heard.

What I find interesting about this (comment of which I've heard many times before), is that aftering playing the game for over 1 1/2 years I rarely have seen 3-4 person PUG blowing through missions because of a MM. And I mean rarely, especially since the minion cap last summer (or spring?).

I don't know, perhaps your refering to specific builds like Sorrow's Furnace 5man farming groups that require a MM. I know I only represent a very small fraction of the player base, but it's my experience that this doesn't happen much. Actually, one of the reasons I quit running MM build in favor of Blood/Curses is that when I PUG'd a mission/quest the groups would move to fast from kill to kill not allowing me enough time to raise minions and I'd constatntly be playing catch-up.

Oh yeah, and back to the topic. I do believe Anet listens to both sides, but it would seem that most of the buffs/nerfs/changes are applied as "fixes" to PvP builds that get over-used and abused moreso than PvE.

I understand that there is specific team builds for farming and such that utilize the MM and perhaps exploit things to a degree, but it's just my experience that most PvE usage of a MM doesn't just simply blow through stuff.

When it comes to the balancing of skills and attributes, pretty much PvP for the most part.

Everything else?
PvE.

Rather than forums, I think ANet should just use the login screen to call votes for tough issues.

I.E. You open GW, and right under the Protect Your Account message, there would be something like Share Your Feedback.

Then they'd just type the issue like, "So and so skill has been found to have an exploit currently used in PVE or PVP and blah, blah, blah. Because of this, we intend to do the following: blah, blah, blah." Then you get offered a Yes, No, No Opinion choice.

This way they can publish how much of the community voted, what the results were, and then we can only blame each other, and not them. Because really, 99% of the things I see in updates are things that need to be fixed, or things the forums asked them to do. Sure, some things have been boneheaded, but it's fairly obvious Anet listens to the community as a whole and mostly gets crap for it.

A poll like that would be terrible, as all the PvErs would have no clue wtf is going on and just click no. PvP is listened to for skill balances, but PvErs get all the new content and stuff. It also seems to take anet longer and longer to fix the broken things for PvPers *cough HA cough*.

People should not take this thread as a threat as some seem to be doing. It was an honest question posed to the guru community. The question that I really wanted to ask would have started an outright argument. But this one is one that I am curious about.
I have heard many people from both sides of the fence who are convinced that the opposing side is held more important than themselves. I would have made this a poll but I dont seem to have that option.

when it comes to balance they should only listen to pvp players cos they know the game much better than your average pve joe.

Ps:this being said by a pve player.

[QUOTE=Blame the Monks]90% of pvers don't give a damn about balance as long as they get their shiny drops.QUOTE]

Why is it that PvPers always seem to characterize 'serious' PvE players as 55 farmers, hellbent on drops. I've seen this opinion expunged often and by many. Seems like serious PvE players, to PvPers, means farming the elite areas. I doubt more than ten percent of the community are serious, full time farmers, but rather those that enjoy playing the game itself.

As far as the topic is concerned, Ensign said it best, content is mostly PvE, balances PvP.

I personally think they focus is balanced

PvP:
Look at the countless tournaments, skill changes, as well as PvP weekends

PvE:
We get FoW/UW weekends, as well as many green weekends. We get the events for Christmas and Easter etc

I honestly don't think they'r singling out people...

make it a poll and its easier to gauge what a majority thinks.

This is true, and exactly how it should be. I think the only thing Anet could do better is listen to both sides more (better skill balances for PvP, fix favor for PvE, etc).

one of the best and truthful quotes here. unfortuantely thats where the biggest problem lays.

See when Anerf balances the skills they do it on a balance of lvl 20's vs lvl 20's. ie the PvP aspect of things, without the regard for the fact that in PvE you have things that are lvl 30. Thats where the biggest difference is. Thats also the biggest hurdle to balancing the game in anyway. Which both sides seem to forget. The PvP'rs only fight themselves at same lvl wise and ofcourse they will see the difference between skills a lot different than say a skill being used on a lvl 30 boss..

Now if Anerf could just figure the balance of that out( which for the most part will be near impossible) they would make both sides happy.

As far as someone saying this is pointless discussion no its not, as this is how the OP stated the question

Does Anet listen to PVE or PVP players more?

Who do you feel that Anet listens to more when making descisions on game changes?

Seems like he was wondering if what he feels is the same as others.

i agree i also wanna note a few weeks ago i saw "my necro heals better in tombs then monks" was it b/c uber blood heal party? no it was SR e management

I like this idea.

A lot.

Interesting premise, but inconsequential. ANet wants to make a game that appeals to as many people as possible, and the simple logical extension is that they therefore try and please all sides.

It's not rocket science

Minion cap was mainly done to save Alliance Battle from becoming a MM frenzy mode as it was during beta weekend. And probably because the game engine had problems to cope with more than 40minions when everything started to lag and minions went flying

SV/AV are probably farm nerfs.

You can't please everyone, no matter how hard you try. Maybe they should reset all skills back to the way they were when first released. You can bet that the earlier builds that dominated wouldn't be quite as dominate as before with skills being added from Factions and Nightfall. The later dominate builds would also have not been as dominate due to earlier skills not already being nerfed. Then again maybe a few would have slipped between the cracks,but we most likely will never know. All of this is starting to sound like MtG all over again.

lol - I was going to post a similar thread myself until I logged on and saw this one.

Mine, however, was going to ask "Just *who* are these ppl Anet says they're listening /responding to with these changes?" and was to be aimed more at a discussion of the proposed features being mooted for GW2.

(On that point, I couldn't figure out *who* wanted this stuff - they're going to jettison 90% of the stuff I like about the game to make it "like GW, only different". What possibly would make me interested in *that*? I mean, I play GW because I like *GW* and if I wanted to play something "like GW, only different" there are plenty of other games like that already out there to choose from.)

So, back to this discussion, ...

Who will Anet listen to regarding the SR nerf?

There's a poll on that in this forum and opinion is running 4 to 1 against the change. While some may say this is not a *scientific*, it seems to me that the forums here have a fair share of both PvE and PvP players, so the poll can be seen as fairly representative.

Will Anet respond to this 4 to 1 response against the change and change it back? Or will they just ignore this response and leave it in place?

I enjoy playing my nec (SS btw, not MM) and now *my* enjoyment has been ruined to accomodate some abuse of this prof in PvP, which I don't play.

Now, I certainly understand that if there is some abuse going on in PvP, then that needs to be addressed, so the PvPers can continue to enjoy the game the way they like to play it. But does that have to come at the expense of costing me *my* enjoyment?

And, you know, it's funny that the PvPers are telling us that we need to accept this change and adjust our builds - I find it strange that they can't take their own advice and adjust their own builds/team make-ups to counter this abuse in PvP - being decimated by nec/rit Spirit spammers, why not run your own nec/rit spammers back at them?

What I find especially disheartening is this attitude by many PvPers that theirs are the opinions/needs/wants that should be taken into account, and that mine count for nothing.

Again let me reitterate, while I don't do PvP, I think the PvP players should be able to play the game game the way they enjoy playing the game and, if an imbalance exists, then it should be addressed.

But as a PvE player, I expect the same right to enjoy the game the way I like to play it, and this SR nerf has royally screwed my enjoyment of playing this prof.

Will Anet take *my* opinion into account? Do they listen to me?

Neither. Anet makes decisions based on what they think, without (for the most part) hardly any community input. I suppose they're paying their R&D team for something, but they are ruining my game slowly and I'm a bit agitated by the lack of opening their ears and eyes that they excel at.

First I would like to say thanks for the civility. But, I don't believe that the change to SR has done anything to make your SS or MM unplayable in PvE having a PvE necro myself. So, its the idea that this destroys the fun in the game for you strikes me as odd.

Second, there is a difference between you being able to adjust your build and telling the PvP player to simply adjust their build. In your case, you can change and go out and kill monsters, beat the game complete quest, get gold and items just fine. The whole point of a skill being broken or overpowered in PvP is that its not as simple as changing your build to beat it. PvP players don't have pet builds. They play whatever they can to win matches. If there were simple and easy counters for this then PvP players would do it. The problem was that soul reaping was systematically abused because of the fact it was so strong. It also ruined the competative environment by removing two important elements, (1) that skill should be an important factor in victory (2) competative environments should foster a diverse field of builds.

They prefer PvP people. The game is balanced for PvP, but players get nerfed when it comes to PvE.

Regarding skill balance, yes, the focus is PvP as it should be. Regarding the majority game content, its PvE.

Well, to be fair, how much game content can be added to PvP?