Why does GW2 need races?

You do realize that cosmetic changes are preferred for GW2 rather than racial selection affecting your character's effectiveness right?

Or let me simplify it for you in your language: "u looking different = good. making ur skills more powerful = bad."

I've been tainted by years of onlinegaming. Races suck. They usually don't add diversity but instead limit it. We don't know yet how GW 2 will implement it and can only hope that they don't go the same way as other games before. What races basically do is limit diversity. The way it usually is:

Race Elf gives a bonus on spellcasting
Dwarf gives bonus on fighting
Now both have chosen spellcaster and engage in a battle. Who will win? Hands down, the elf due to his bonus on spellcasting. How does this add diversity? Hint: It doesn't. It forces players to chose a certain race to be able to play at a higher level.
The only time when races don't fubar a game is when they don't get any special advantages in certain fields.

I also have seen quite a few clones of my main (my female ranger). Just today I saw someone with the same hair, same colour and all, same face, and even the same height. The only difference was the armour. I see clones of my character everywhere. That's why I try to avoid the main towns.

I think races will be a great addition. I admit when GW2 was first announced, I was feeling a bit down about leaving my characters behind, but I soon got over it with the thought of playing as a Charr. Can't wait to see what a female Charr looks like.

But the thing I look forward to the most is that hopefully the different races will each have a different storyline, at least at the start, and all the different branches will come together towards the end. So not only will we have more unique characters, but (hopefully) there'll be this great replayability to GW2.

Of course, that may be a bit too much work for Anet, and it may not happen, but I can still hope.

A-net will implement what players want.

And for sure, I thurst A-Net to keep it balanced...

I don't think so. I read somewhere else that they will have racial abilities. I can't wait what Anet has in store for us

By the way a lot of people like stereotypes in RPG fantasy worlds. For example: Savage brutal Orcs with axe, Ale drinking stubborn Dwarfs, ... etc. So they need the option to choose btween races.

Right. And Ranger class is good at lowering the cost of skills, Assassin is good at crits, Ele is good with any high-cost magic. Oh, you say those are classes and not races? I beg to differ - can you change your primary? No. That pretty much means you are stuck with what you choose, just like a race. It obviously gives you specific benefits, just like a race. Hell, they even have unique models, just like a race. Still think it will be sooo much different?

Many people like to be another race, if only to be alien in a way, some prefer to remain human, but i (and many others) like diffrent races, it also adds more variety to the appearance of players. You may not want that, but others do, and A-Net will want to cater to those others, there are many joys and benefits to having more then 1 race, benefits that outweigh the downsides.

Why do you think all other MMO's have multiple races?Because it works and people love it.

Why because...

1) People asked for them.
2) We have around 9+ human professions already - Its getting stale.
3) We've run out of professions, the next logical step are races.
4) Diversity, re-energise the game, alot more choice.

You have to assume that each race will be able to play each independant profession, just as humans do in GW1 at the minute.

That offers a much wider choice in terms of character build and design.

Something with GuildWars is aching for. Playing as humans is getting boring and the sheer fact that a fantasy game only has human players is a bit odd anyway.

If you dont want to play as a non-human, then dont. Thats the whole point. To give us a choice. Its hardly going to have a negative effect.

And who cares whether its WoWish and generic to use races in an MMO. Theres a reason why they all do it. Because its good.

And chances are that they wont use race specific spec boosts. Such as (in your words) elfs having a boost on magic and drawfs a boost on fighting. Why?

Because we already have profession based spec boosts. Ele's can use more energy and Necros can feed of death. They'l keep it that way. The races will just add a different athetic feel to the game.

I didn't know discussions over controversial topics and ideas was not allowed in this forum.

Regardless, I don't like the idea of races. The one thing I really value in Guild Wars is that all the professions are humans. I like being human. I don't want to be a charr. I don't want to be a dwarf. I enjoy being a human in games because, well, humans rule.

You are right. There is an interview with Jeff and crew on PC Gameplay. However it was stated that a Warrior from one race will not be more powerful than a warrior from a differant race. Which made me think that each race may have skills that are unique for that races profession class. That way it can still be balanced but also give each race a uniqueness instead of just cosmetic. Anyways Anet does have 2 years to work out any balance issues. I highly doubt Anet would make one race better at a profession than another race.

Then play as a human! Problem solved!

I laugh at comments like that, because you know for a fact within a month or two of playing GW2 you will start thinking "hmmm maybe I should try being a dwarf or a char", and you'l probably enjoy it.

People shouldnt comment about how bad things will be, until they actually get put into place.

Maybe races will be good, maybe they will be bad. But you dont know until you try it.

Its like watching a child cry that he doesnt like sprouts before hes even tried them.

First of all races wont make characters more diverse or eliminate clones. Instead of one race (Human) with 36 different appearance options you're going to get 6 races with 6 different appearance options each. Instead of 36 armor models for 1 race you're going to get 36 different armor models, 6 for each race. Seriously, be realistic. It's not like we are suddenly going to see 6 times the number of armors because of races.

Secondly races are stupid and pointless. They are nothing more than 1 dimensional sterotypical archtypes of humans. What is a dwarf if not a short guy with a beard and an attitude? Why not just let us make short humans with beards. What is an Elf if not a slender good looking human who loves magic and nature. Why not just give us more options to make humans look the way we want?

I am sorry, but races are just the tip of the iceberg. GW2 will be a generic EQ clone just like WoW. Every change they are making, is being done so they can be just like every other MMORPG on the market. GW has established it's name, now it's looking to cash in.

Why not? Why assume the worst? The fact is no-one knows what kind of character creation process Anet will implement, but since lack of customization had been a major complaint against Guild Wars from the beginning, I'd like to believe that Character Creation (arguably, one of the most important parts of a "role-playing game"), will be upgraded considerably in Guild Wars 2.


Again, how do you know they won't? While I'm sure GW 2 will not be "Spore" or anything, I can imagine a system with some customization.

(Besides, there are no Elves in Guild Wars 2... only Sylvari. Completely different! )

And here we go. Races was not your primary concern at all, it was just a hook to lure people into another rant that "OMG, GW2 is just like WoW and EQ."

Yes, Anet is using some popular features from other MMORPGS to make more money. Nothing wrong with that, it's how business works.

As long as GW2 remains monthly fee free and casual friendly it will sell millions of copies.

And guess what? You can totally ignore it and keep playing the original Guild Wars. It really is a no-lose situation, agreed?

Controversial? It's only controversial if you make it controversial and make a big deal out of nothing. So basically you can whine about anything in that case.

And did I say it wasnt allowed? There's a difference between thinking that some topics are ridiculous and saying that it shouldnt be allowed to be discussed.

If you dont like other races, then DONT PLAY THEM. Problem solved so stop complaining.

gw1 had armor... its just like every other mmo
gw1 had levels... its just like every other mmo
gw1 had magic... its just like every other mmo
gw1 had towns... its just like every other mmo
gw1 had bags & banks.... WHY WHY do they make it just like every other mmo.
I think you get my point.. it's not the feature that makes mmo's similar, its how they do it that makes it unique. I have faith in the Anet team to make unique & cool use of races and higher levels and everything else people are saying they cloned and sold out on.

I have faith in Anet to do a good job but I agree with SwordofaVirgin that inevitably the number of appearance options you would have had for humans will be divided by the number of races, which is going to exacerbate the clone problem. WoW offers evidence that most players will choose the 'pretty race' over the 'ugly race', meaning lots of people playing Humans and Sylvari with fewer face/hair options for each to choose from. I don't foresee a lot of 'post your sexy Charr' threads in the Screenshot exposition.

I don't know about the alternate race fans but I'm wired to recognize human faces and I can distinguish subtle differences between the human face choices in Guild Wars. In WoW, it's hard for me to tell the difference between two Taurens unless they're different colors, even if they do feature slightly different faces. To me, the less humanoid the race the more I'm not going to catch subtle differences in hair and face combos. I suspect once I've seen one Asuran I'll have seen them all.

Even if they avoid the 'racial bonuses force me to make my Warrior a Charr' trap, I still think the variety of player apperances is going to suffer compared with GW as it is now. I love the breadth of armor designs in GW compared to most other MMOs, where I end up wearing a technicolor hobo outfit made up of the best drops I can find. I can't really get excited about three varieties of harness for my centaur the same way I do about mixing and matching possibilities from three or more times that many human outfits. Ideally I'd like to see them carry over all the armors from GW into GW2, but there are probably too many differences in the engine and asset requirements to make it worth their effort. Plus people would accuse them of trying to resell the same content, even if the new armors were less inspired.

there was an overwhelming request for new reaces with each new release of GW1. The devs felt it wouldn't mesh into the game they had made, but feel they can integrate it well in the next game (GW2) if they do so from the start. This was essentially implied in the PCGamer article. I suggest reading it. It's pretty good. If you don't wish to buy it, you'd be surprised at the magazines that your local library subscribes to.

This really depends on whether the races are merely cosmetic or if they actually carry and special abilities or buffs.

Charr for example might have some sort of ability that make them better warriors so every other class would be inferior.
This would end up in alot of pre-game planning where you have to sit down and plan out your character perfectly before starting, something I had hoped to avoid in purchasing guild wars.

I don't like these treads all I have to say about GW2 is all the changes they are making were asked for by the people that post on fansites and as they can't please everyone the majority wins they do have poles on some of the sites that asked what people want!

That is my main concern with races. I really hope they don't go down that path. Someone said a racial attribute could be used to improve race specific skills. That would probably be the ideal situation.

Having a Charr Warrior be superior to a Human Warrior simply due to an inherent racial trait would be ridiculous in my opinion. We see enough of that nonsense in other games.

What exactly are we then?

Just because the majority of people like something doesn't necessarily mean it is right. In all honesty though the only people that would have suggested some of these changes would be people that are inexperienced in guild wars or do not understand the games concept.

I completely agree with topic creator.

I agree, i think a lot of GW players will want to play the pretty race, which could mean A-net may have racial skills to attract people to play the ugly races.


I started playing WoW a bit ago after completing NF over and over and what struck me is the only thing that differs between most WoW armors is the colour. At first I thought, "how crap" but now I can understand this with all the different armors there are and how short a time you use most of them before getting your next one.

Not sure how A-net would approach this any different as it would be a lot of work for something which isnt used much. And if blizzard cant afford to have an army of armor modellers with the money they get every month then A-net wont with their one off fee. Hopefully the rare and top level armours would have much more to them than WoW's and having fewer races would help, not thats thats going to happen now

I'll still be playing it though

It's what we wanted for over a year...

Hmmm, so Guild Wars should cater to the minority?

That doesn't make sense as a business model. You try to attract as many customers as you can, not the opposite.

And what exactly do you mean "only people that would have suggested some of these changes would be people that are inexperienced in guild wars or do not understand the games concept".

Guild Wars has never been just about Humans. Anet has talked about the possibility of adding races in a future Chapter, it makes perfect sense to introduce them in a whole new game. If the entire Guild Wars universe was made up of only humans, you'd have a point, but there have been dwarves, centaurs, tengu, etc. from the beginning.

I dont think we would want the whole Guild wars universe to consist of just humans, we just want to play humans who get to meet/interact/fight other non human races.

I am human and I get more immersed being a human in a fantasy world than I would being a Charr. Other people will differ.

In the movie world you dont see many(any) sci-fi films where the main character is some furry race and they do just fine. Im sure games dont need to have different races to appeal to the masses it just that some games have been hugely successful that just happen to have different races.

There have been a lot of arguments throughout this whole topic, so I'm just gonna try to go over a few of the main ones from a non-biased perspective.
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First of all, there have been a lot of sarcasm and scorn towards the topic starter, and I'm wondering why. He is perfectly able to post what he thinks, if you want to be mocking of his thoughts/ideas, then take it elsewhere, don't pollute the topic with flaming and spamful posts.


Second of all, many of you have been saying that a lot of the criticism of gw2 is all guesswork, but then again, the praise of gw2 is also guesswork. Anet hasn’t released much info about the game, so both sides of the issue should be able to be discussed without one side accusing the other of hypothetical accusations.


Third, the concept of unique races has been mentioned over and over again. Personally, I think it would be really cool to be a Tengu, but on the other hand, I am also apprehensive that it might unbalance the game. One of the things I liked about gw1 was the fact that I didn’t have to worry about my race, I simply had to think about how to best create my character. The char customization was really fun to mess with, and the way Anet has made the human creation process, I think that they’ll probably do well with the non-human ones as well.

However, the fact that there might be fewer armors could also be justified. Currently, there are over 20 armors per profession, and that’s just for humans. This makes a total of 200 armors for just the humans. If you factor in the four other playable races that they have made so far, then there will be already around 1000 different armors needed for gw2. That is a huge number, and I bet they’re gonna make even more playable races then the ones they’ve mentioned. So they will either have to severely limit the armor availability, or take up vast amounts of space for the game to simply give all the armor required.

To address the races’ bonus, I don’t think they’ll make it so that certain races will be better at certain professions than other races. However, there still is the possibility that certain races might appeal to certain professions than other races, though I hope this won’t be the case. As in the way they made the Luxons and the Kurzicks, I hope that it will simply be your personal choice that drives your decision for what race you want to be, not stats or bonuses or better certain race only skills and other stuff like that.

People have also said that with humans, you just get clones, due to the fact that there is limited choices with the Status Quo, and that you see a copy of yourself all the time. First of all, I don’t think I’ve ever seen an exact duplicate of myself in game. I certainly see the same armor that I’m wearing on other people, but that would be the same with playable races. You don’t think that you might see, if you were a Charr, another Charr with the same fur design, with the same 3-inch long teeth, the same height, and with the same armor as your own? All that races will add to gw2 is more color and variables to the game. It won’t stop clones of yourself from appearing.

Also, one last thing about the races, is the fact that gw2 might be a bit unbalanced, in my mind. Say you have a fire move that causes X amount of damage. Should it do more damage to fur covered Charr, Tengu, and Centaurs? Or should the Charr be more immune to fire because they are the race that covets fire? Then again, should the Sylvari take more damage from fire and ice attacks because they are plant-like? Should the Sylvari be immune to Ranger nature spirits because they are like Druids? Shouldn’t a Charr Warrior and a Norn Warrior be able to hit harder than an Asura Warrior, simply because of the height, build, and muscles of the inherent bodies of the various races? Guildwiki says that both the Asuras and the Sylvari are magically adept, but which is more so? Stuff and questions like this could very easily unbalance the game, unless Anet decides to completely bypass a race’s anatomy affecting how much damage it gives or receives, or how it’s attributes are appointed.


Fourth, my last point (which might be a little biased), is just about gw in general. When I first started playing it, I thought that Prophesies was all there was to it. Then, I found out able Factions, and proceeded to buy it. A little later, I found out about Nightfall, and am currently waiting to beat Factions before I go ahead and purchase that as well. However, when I first found out that Eye Of The North would simply be an expansion, I was mildly disappointed. However, that was nothing compared to the disappointment I felt when I learned that the fourth campaign for gw1 had turned into gw2, a completely new game taking the gw series away from the original traits that had made it stand above all other MMORGPs. Personally, I had been hoping that the fourth campaign would have taken gw into a more modern, urban type of place with gunslingers and other stuff like that, but then I found out that gw1 was to die slowly, and gw2 was to take its place as a more stereotypical RPG. In the beginning, Anet gave up the chance for really good graphics in gw1 simply for the sake of people playing on older computers being able to play as well. They made it a game that was almost completely different that other MMORPGs currently out there in the market. And when I first started playing gw, I was thinking that I could play gw forever, because they would be simply and continually adding on to it. But now they’re taking it in a completely different way, which will still be unique, but will be decidedly less so.


Anyway, these are my thoughts about this whole topic and gw1 vs. gw2 in general. I’ve tried to not let biasm creep into what I’ve typed, and to make this a fair post regarding both sides of this issue. Sorry it had to be so long, but I’ve just read through 4 pages of discussion on this topic, and thus have had to, at least partially, answer 4 pages of stuff.

I think guild wars is just great because its one of the few games where you can play only as one race, so i see no need for other races...

So because he posted his ideas here, that were meant to be a flame and negative shot towards a game then many people are looking forward to, we should just keep our mouths shut and just agree with him and not say anything that may differ from his opinion in any way? Mhm....I'll pass thanks.

Most people who are opposing the OP haven't been glorifying or praising Guild Wars 2. Merely stating that A-Net knows what they are doing and you people shouldn't be getting all riled up and whining and complaining about something you haven't even tried yet. The OP has posted nothing but his own negative ideas and pure speculation(which apparently applies to ALL of us because that person says it does) with very little(if any) actual fact.

Again, this is hypothetical thinking. How does anyone know that their will be limited armour/model options just because there are more races? Is it a possible scenario? Yes. Does that mean it is GOING to happen? No. Like people have been saying, please don't whine about something until you have tried it or at least seen it in practice(which none of us have).

Well...let's analyze this, shall we? Charr are currently in Guild Wars 1, and do they do more damage with fire magic? Do they take less damage from fire magic? The only reasons some classes may take more damage or less damage is because of the armour they have(eg. Shiverpeak Centaurs have frostbound armour, thus take less damage from cold damage). I could see them giving racial skills, but giving a different race a whole immunity/resistance from something? I highly doubt they would do something to make the game that unbalanced.


Ummm....I'm pretty sure everything you said was biased. Not that it's a bad thing, I'm being biased too, as has most everyone who has posted in this topic. But really, why the big deal about races when the game is still a minimum of 2 years away? If you don't want to play a different race then don't...it's really that simple. The OP complained about how this will be a WoW clone and such(which is starting to become a really annoying argument to hear), but just because it has classes doesn't make it a WoW clone...if anything it would make it a D&D clone because you know....D&D had races, so it must be a clone right? Hell, Star Trek had races. Does that mean Guild Wars 2 is a Star Trek clone? Why don't you guys all just chill out, wait until it's closer to release, and if you still don't want to play races, then don't, play a human character. And if you're still angry that the game is not catering to your individual and very demanding requirements, then don't buy the game. Stick with Guild Wars 1 or play something else, no skin off my back. I'll be enjoying my time as a Charr

But we get newer professions instead, which bring about tons of balancing issues. I'd much rather have newer races and sturdier professions as opposed to one race and imbalanced professions.

If people are sarcastic, it's because there is a very easy solution to the "problem." Don't play other races. Unless someone can frame an argument where it actually hurts them to see Charr running around in a city, I don't see a problem.

Yes and no. We know there will be playable races, so, at least for this thread, we can debate the merits of that. I think the case has been made over and over again that multiple races will do nothing to harm Guild Wars 2, and that the arguments against multiple races simply do not hold any water.

I agree, glad you do as well.

Now, this is conjecture. Perhaps they'll have a system in place that fits the same armor on different models, so they won't need "1,000" different armors.... who knows? Armor is a huge part of Guild Wars, Anet knows that, so until we hear something definitive, I'm not going to lose sleep whether my Charr in GW2 will have as many armor options as my Human warrior in GW1.

"Unique but less so." ? Unique - being the only one of its kind; different from others in a way that makes something worthy of note.

Adding races in Guild Wars 2 doesn't make it less unique, any more than having only humans makes Guild Wars unique. There are MMORPGs with only humans, and ones with different races. That's not what makes Guild Wars unique.

Right now, Guild Wars is unique in it's pay format (yes, other games like Archlord are free to play, but honestly, I don't expect Archlord to last long... or sell 3 million copies). It's also unique in it's casual play, ease to get Max weapons and armor, it's skill system, etc. It's a combination of all these factors that makes it unique.

What I hate most about the argument that somehow "races" are the problem of Guild Wars 2, is it invariably becomes the "signature reason" why Guild Wars is "selling out." Come on people! It's just like adding new professions or armor - it's not even a real change in gameplay, it's just cosmetic, and will not effect the soul of Guild Wars in the slightest.

Non biased perspective? Your whole post was based on your speculation and opinions. Do you even know what non biased means? Just because you start out a post with "Here's my non biased perspective" does not make it so.

And my whole beef against the OP was that he wanted to take away options of playing different races from other people based on the fact that he only wanted to play humans and not "some ugly character"

Concerns about racial attributes/skills are fine, but freaking out about them now is pointless. I have concerns too but I also think that ANET won't let us down.

And that's my biased perspective.

Best solution: just like some other RPG have PvE, PvP or RPG oriented servers, GW could have some servers were humans are the only race allowed. Problem solved.

Err, really? I dislike the idea because it restricts my movement.

But I'm curious, what games practice this segregation?

Not really a "best solution." Servers cost money. And really is it really necessary?

I'm looking forward to the races and the diversity that will come with it.

I left GW 12/06 for Everquest II and am now just starting to play for
any length of time on GW again

I love EQII and the ability to choose the race or the good or evil side.

This won't hurt GW I think it will bring in a lot of ppl and I for one am
looking forward to it.

i really dont want races
but i realize many do and i want them to enjoy the game i just wish they more slowly introduce races and dont make them to powerful side abilities in GWEN i dont want 1 super uber race and tons of other useless ones just for that reason

"Why does GW2 need races?"

Because other games offer it, and gw wants those players to buy their game. Simple economics.