Make 'Legendary Defender of Ascalon' a respectable title

I'm not against an alternative method to acquire the title, I just wouldn't want it to be "dummified" like you said. If this ever get implemented, I'd only wish this alternative method takes as much time as those who are death-leveling, so that neither alternative gets more benifit than the other.this way, the value of the title would stay intact (as the most time-consuming PvE title) it will just be another way for people who can't/don't want to let their computer running for 10 hours straight.

Can i introduce you to this thing called 'Reality'. Your saying that you'd only be happy if this title was changed but took exactly the same amount of time as afking it? I'm assuming you know what afk is. You can afk while asleep, you can afk while at work, you can afk while making dinner. You're clocking up time without actually been there, the amount of time your actually there is maybe a minute or 2 killing the foe(s) you just death leveled and maybe a few minutes setting up the foe(s) before going afk. So thats maybe 5 minutes of work.
As i'm assuming you meant this. Your saying that if your actually at the computer putting some actual effort in that 5 minutes of work should equal your few hours of effort?
The title should take as long as you were actually at your computer. You were at it for 5 minutes, afk for 3 hours. So in those 3 hours you should've progressed alot more than those who buggered off to do other things.

Stop trying to justify the afk'ing in any way, shape or form.

Five minutes to set up a Charr deleveling session ? You have no idea what you are talking about. A minute or two killing 12+ charrs lvl 17-20 ? Again you have no idea what you a talking about. Death-leveling for 3 hours ? What the hell are you smoking ? You don't seem to know jack about deleveling, you credibility at criticizing deleveling just took a big hit.

Now you in particular, are sounding alot like "I want a short-cut" from my post earlier. What Im read from your post is that if Anet provided you a boss that would take 500-600 hours to get to lvl 20, you wouldn't grind it, considering "it's not fast enough ?"

Either way, grinding a lvl14-15 boss/unit would actually take as much time in the end. And I very much doubt Anet would add a bunch of high level charrs/bosses for a pocket of people who want the title, and thus, unbalancing the entire Northlands to people not interested in the title (and I'm pretty sure Anet prioritize balance and newcomers over titles seekers)

"Dummifing" the title, that's what you want.

In the end, what you want is this nice and rare title under you name, but you want it the fastest and effortless way possible.

Heh, and yet, I can totally destroy your argument of delevelers doing more experience than the ones who would grind a lvl 14 boss (don't get me started on a lvl16 boss haha)

A deleveler gains about 1000-1500xp per 10-16 hours(depends on the level)

Doing a normal Charr Boss hunt take 5-8 minutes, let's say it takes 15 minutes to get to the lvl 14 boss and kill it.

lvl16 you'll get 256xp per kill
lvl17 you'll get 128xp per kill
lvl18 you'll get 64xp per kill
lvl19 you'll get 32xp per kill (looks scary huh ? But considering you'll get 75-80% your level by quests, it doesn't seem like so anymore)

Now multiply those numbers by 4 for one hour, and then by 10-16.

You'll get to lvl 20 4,5(not counting the quests, or it would be MUCH faster than that) times faster than a deleveler.

Byebye argument.

Oh well sorry for not understanding the in depth methods of how to set up an afk leveling session for the AI in pre-searing. Sounds like someone is getting bitter that all those hours of so called effort might be actually been made into real effort. Next time i want to death level a pet for my heros i'll make sure to run by the strategies with you first.

So your trying to bash my idea of maybe adding a boss into the mix in order to gain exp? Come on then, where are your solutions on how to get this title without afk'ing it?......... well?

Balance and newcomers... what do Charr Bags have to do with that? Weren't they for people who stay in pre, becoming much more powerful than everyone else in there. And you talk to me about balance in pre-searing... And more to the point. What does adding a high level boss have to do with balance? Stick him in a corner... who knows, maybe the gates to this boss only open after killing all other mini-Charr bosses. But until you can explain to me how adding an enemy into an area unlanaces a zone... stop talking.

Dummifing? Theres nothing more 'dummified' than having to death level charr/pets in order to get exp to gain a title.

A death level spends about 30 minutes to an hour of those 10-16 hours actually at there computer putting 'effort' in killing things as they keep dieing at a ressurection shrine. Ever done the Masters quest (forgot its name) outside Gate of Torment? See the resemblance?

So you can get this title in 10-16 hours... if as you say it takes 15 minutes per boss run. So how about it actually takes longer? Do i look like i've spent weeks of planning like an Anet dev team may do in order to not 'cheapen' this title?

Since you seem to enjoy the mathematical side of this. 1/10 of the actual time spent gaining exp is actually spent at your computer, at the most. As you said, it takes ~600 hours to gain this title. So in terms of time spent at your pc it should take 60 hours. not including the time taken to reach that stage already.

Care to rant more about how my idea is bad without coming up with any of your own? If thats all your going to do, piss off.

That is one aspect of this that has not been clarified previously. People wait to do almost all of their quests until they reach level 19. So the cross over from level 19 to 20 is somewhat faster. The big grind is lvl 17-18-19, and some would argue, the endless charr runs that take you from 14-16.

Well that's just it, you rant on something you don't even understand, that you probably didn't tried, yet you act has if you did know all about it. Your credibility = zero

Have something in your eyes ? Buy a pair of glasses, I've already explained mine.

Charr bags makes you much more powerful ? I must have missed something. Charr bags create imabalance ? What the hell ?

Well, presearing behing a tutorial geez. Every monsters are lvl 3-5-8-10. Add a high level boss somewhere there, and someone who which to explore the place is behing limited because of a few persons that want this title.

Its a nice first impression of a game to have a monster that kills you in one hit for regular joe in the first few areas of the game.

What the hell is this argument ? It makes no sense. The only possible way to get LDoA now is to delevel charrs. "Dummifying" something would mean to create an easier alternative to achieve said goal.

Do you even think before writing ?


Wow, you didn't even understood (not that I am surprised). Learn your maths.

How much longer do you think it would take ? The area is very small, the reasonnable place they would put a lvl14 boss is right behind or up the hill further behind the Charr Shrine, it doesn't take an eternity to get there.

Do you really think Anet would cheapen one of the rarest title that much so you can get to lvl20 in pre in less than 100 hours ? Dream !

Amusing.

Edited by Arkantos - If you need to use a * in the word, the word is not appropriate, so don't bother typing it.

Please try and be nice to one another. While this is a debate of a title, I don't think it's necessary for us to start making each other feel bad over anything.

I can understand both points of the argument:

* Some people think Death-leveling should be the only bridge between level 16 to 19. They believe the title should take a very long time to get, in order to keep its value high and the number of people with the title low. Since titles are suppose to show a players impressive feats, this makes perfect sense.

* Some people believe that Death-leveling does not reflect what the title should be about. They think they should be able to grind for the title and not have to sacrifice their character repeatedly to Moa Birds. Since titles should be capable of being achieved through active means, this also makes perfect sense.

Now that we understand both parties, I think we should put all arguments aside and find a "middle-ground" where everyone will be happy.

People who support the title already think adding a level 15 to Pre would depreciate the value. Fair enough.
People who want to see change in the way you obtain the title want a means of not having to die for it. I don't see a problem with this.

Lets go from there. Once again, please be constructive and respectful to one-another.

/Signed

Nothing should require deathleveling. That in itself is rather cheap.

Deleveling is lame and it s like cheating cause you dont do a thing other then let your comp work while your afk.hell,give a lvl 28 boss and let everyone try to kill it,if you can.you got your title ! So far those who got the def title only proovethey got empty time to kill and money to pay for electric.bill nothing more,not even skill.

/not signed

Presear was never meant for you to reach lvl 20. The title was put in for those few that took the time to do it already. You DONT NEED EVERY freakin title in the game. And if you do REALLY want the title then spend the time to get it.

Personally I'll probably never get the title and dont really want it. I dont need to get every title in the game.

You are one a few. Seriously, there will be people who complain about every title in the game until ANet just adds a button that when you click it, it automatically maxes out EVERY title in the game for you. Oh, and then people who fairly earned the titles would complain. So no matter what happens, people are going to complain about this title.

I'm not saying that it being 600 is any better. Stop making it out like I said it was. You just said someone in your alliance had more than 800 hours clocked and wasn't even close to finishing the title. I just wanted to point out that either a) You've vastly exaggerated your numbers or b) hes doing something wrong.

I bring up triple xp scrolls because they make the title earning process faster. Your original "800 and not even close" number is now down to 200 or less the title complete. And for the record, I didn't use a single xp scroll when getting my LDoA title, so don't try to give me that crap "you have no say in this title LOL". I have as much say in it as you do. I'm not even completely opposed to your idea. No need to get your panties in a twist now...

/notsigned

am 476 hours into my pre character and he is already level 18 and going strong. I have decided to put the time and effort into getting this title. If other people want to get it then they should put the same effort in that all the previous people have and those of us currently going for it.
Putting higher level mobs in pre would ultimately diminish the title's value for everyone who has been willing to put the time in to get it.

If you dont want to get the title using the current methods then dont get.

Currently, Defender of Ascalon is barely a Easter Egg.
The way it is got require you to have a frind with a lot of spare time or death level.
Even getting 1 exp per kill would be better than having to death level, because this removes the chance to have Survivor and Defender at the same time.

That is what should be changed.

MithranArkanere, I could kiss you!

If people don't like the idea of a sole level 15 in pre, but others want a way to level without dying, why doesn't ANet make it so you get 1XP for kills that are 6 levels or below you? I don't see this as being unfair. You'll have your grind factor and death-leveling will still be the quickest way to get LDoA!

Feedback!

/notsigned

Not respectable? Worthless? I really don't see that; people work very hard for this title, and it is obtainable for everyone to get, just perhaps not in the time that others do. One thing though, you did get right: afk'ing. THe solution? Make animals die from fatigue after attacking you too much in the pre. Simple, revalues this title. Case closed.

EDIT: I just saw the 1xp idea, and it's definitely something Arenanet should have put in before this title was made.

Pardon me for being off topic here but how would "setting up your heroes" = MAXED Lightbringer Title. Sure IF you left them in a area under BOUNTY blessing they would kill some groups. BUT there are only so many enemies per map spawn...

OH and /signed.

FOR all you people who support the current AFK method of gaining LDoA... HOW IS DEATH LEVELING A GROUP MOAS defending ascalon? Infact, how is death leveling at all make you defender of ascalon.

Yea yea people will say "But the people who spent 200 hrs on it will be cheated!".
All I can say is that if you death level for a honorable title like LDoA, you dont deserve it.

EDIT:

FLAME AWAY! Because deep down, you know I'm right.

Your trying to defend death leveling with nothing but crap so far. If my crediblity = zero, your credibility is into the realm of imaginary numbers.

1. I have a pair of glasses, 2 pair actually.

2. What would have that to do with me getting soemthing in my eye?

If thats the best you can come back with you really have lost this debate.

Sorry, are you been picky? Ran out of things to come back with?

As you said, the highest level MONSTER is level 10. In that 1 quote you have just basically said that the LDoA title shouldn't even exist because Pre-searing is a tutorial. What your saying goes beyond this title and its suggestions to make it possible without death leveling. Perhaps you should think through what your saying before spouting out crap that basically says everything your 'fighting' for shouldn't exist.
Your reducing yourself to saying that people who want to look around (a high level boss is hardly stopping them from LOOKING) can no longer do that thanks to a single boss. If thats the best you can come up just leave now before you start embaressing yourself.

Lol, it prepares them for DoA. Get over it. Your arguements are surpassing pathetic now. Since when did a level 14 boss kill you in 1 hit anyway? Unless of course your level 5, in which case it shows you that you shouldn't rush through the game because you *will* get killed by things easily. Your really starting to run out of things to come back with now.

Weird, it makes perfect sense to me. An easier alternative eh? I didn't see people who already had the title complaining about exp farming using low risk builds cheapens the Survivor title. Well, they probably did but thats not even remotely similar to this title. Specially considering this title actually requires you to die several 1000 times. LDoA is basically the 'gain a title for dieing alot' title that some people have been wanting. Yet you defend it. Do you have it by any chance and think that nobody without 100s of hours of time to spend afk should get it?

Yes, reading half of your replies though makes me wonder if you do.

You quoted that? Seriously... why? All i can do with that is say you need to learn English. Its 'understand'. Theres nothing wrong with my maths, i can prove that with my A at A-level and B in Further Maths AS. There is also no maths in what you quoted.

Well considering i have never so much as tried to gain this title because i see it as completely worthless due to the requirement of 100s of hours of death level pets while afk, how the hell would i know? They have an entire post-searing to mess around with. For all i care they could put this boss in the Fire Islands meaning you have to fight there from Ascalon each time, its not as if they have to actually add this location to the map, FoW/UW aren't located on the map, who says the location of the boss they add has to be on the map?
If you seem to think modifying the surroundings is a bit too much, perhaps you should think back to when they added Grenths Footprint + Sorrows Furnace.

Lol, do you honestly think they wouldn't? They added Charr Bags to pre-searing which serve no purpose other than to help people who farm Pre for dyes to make money. They gave us Factions which makes Rank1 Survivor almost worthless. They gave us DoA which makes anyone who isn't a Warrior, Elementalist, Necromancer or Monk worthless.
The only reason why 100 hours spent in pre-searing seems like alot is because:

1. People have characters that spend there ENTIRE life there.

2. This title requires ALOT of hours spent death leveling enemies. 100 hours for a title is still a very long time if you don't compare it to the crap that is the LDoA title currently.

Apologies. I didn't mean it to sound like it was directed at you personally. As for the alliance friend going for it with 800 hours + on the clock, i forgot to add that they also spent time afk in towns, farming and etc that don't count towards gaining this title. I also wasn't aiming the comment about XP scrolls at you, merely a general statement. But it is completely irrelevant bringing it up.

I, and many others, used the AFK method to help to gain the Rank 8, Holy Lightbringer. In total i gained abou 20,000-25,000 from AFK'ing this title. I must've gained about 15,000-20,000 from trapper farming Stygian Veil (before the build was posted for the record... wonder if anyone will quote this in an attempt to 'buff' there E-penis). Its lucky really because i was getting sick of farming it by then, also somebody recently posted the build in the Ranger/Farming forum which led to a complete crash in prices for Stygian Gemstones, but getting another 25,000 LB points this way would've been murder. Even if i had gotten the title honestly i would fully approve any method to make the title slightly easier. That title as it stands is ridiculous also.

Effort? Time? What are you talking about? Your time and effort completely ceased at level 16 when there were no longer any enemies in Pre-searing that you could gain experience from. Did you sit there and actively aid your enemies in killing you by using Frenzy/Healing Signet cancelling? Somehow i think you didn't. You have put no effort into this title since you achieved level 16.

Putting in higher level mobs would diminish the titles value? The only value this title holds currently is that there are actually people on guild wars that would stoop to such a pathetic level to gain a title. Making this title achievable without death leveling would ultimately strengthen this title. It would make it something that was actually worth achieving, something that could be displayed with honour. If someone had this title i would actually think less of them than before. If someone had Ale-Hound i would think they were rich, but i would not think less of them.

I don't have this title. I don't want this title.

After seeing what people who have it has to go through, I would not cheapen the process at all. If you can't commit, then don't expect them to make it easier.

If they make it easier, I propose changing the name from that point on to Not So Legendary Defender of Ascalon.

I made the final system to make LDoA possible and worthy.

BEHOLD!:

You need 140,600XP to get to level 20.
There is already a 'maximum' cap: 280XP.
They could add a 'minimum' cap: 1XP
Even if they made it so creatures grant a minimum 1XP per level, that would be a lot of time anyways, and would have almost no effect anywhere lse in the game, but with DP.
With min 1XP, you'll be able to lose 1%DP by killing 100 low lever monsters.
That way you get more than the 100gold that cost a Morale Blessing, so there won't be any problem with that.

Now, let's see...
You need 140,600 to get to level 20.
You can get up to level 16 without death leveling or taking quest rewards, that is, 93,000XP.
140,600-93,000=47,600XP.
You can get around 12.000 exp with the PreAscalon quests... so...
47,600-12,000=35,600

You'll still need to kill 35,600 mobs to get the title.
But that way people could just kill level 1 mobs to do the job.

Let's tune it even more...

The main point of this title is to kill charr.
Charr are all level 6(A Quest boss), 7, 8 and 10(Char Bosses)
No other creatures are lvel 6 or more.
Easy! Let's remove the 0..5 levels from the picture:
- Less than 5 levels: 1XP.
- Less than 10 levels: 0XP.
That way, at level 16, without Death leveling, you will gain XP ONLY from monsters at level 6 or higher. That s, FORM CHARR ONLY. (Harr!)

So, the final way to get LDoA would be:
1. Kill any mobs until getting to 16.
2. Kill 7..10 charr until getting to 19, 12,800XP left.
Now you can either:
3a. Kill the level 10 bosses, and they will grant you 2 XP each, for being bosses. That is, 8 XP per run.
12,800/8=1,600 times.
3b. Have been wise and saved the quest rewards to finally get to level 20 and fill the possible remaining gaps by doing some Charr boss runs.

Finished.
- To get the title. you'll need to kill more mobs than to get the Lightbringer (10)
- You gain the title by killing, not by being killed.
- Those who already spent the quest rewards would be able to get the title anyways, just in more time.
- No need to AFK (I woul even prevent the monsters from leveling up to completely preent death leveling).
- Althought hard, makes possible to get Survivor at the same time.

And, for the case of complains about 'method of getting' changed.
Well. Tyrian quests give very few exp.
Canthan quests give tons of exp.
You can get Survivor(3) in Cantha in a few weeks if you have some luck with connection and less with a double exp per cap weeked.
Things change.
Do old survivors complain about this? No. I've never seen a 'Canthan quets give to much exp" whine in the forums.
This is exaclty the same, instead of 'My tittlesss, preciusss, give them tu uss, we AFKed mothsss to get them...'
You'll say: "Ah, you kids had things easier, ya know? I got me title before the change!" Yours is a joke, matey!"

See? Everybody happy.

I know full well how deatleveling works, you don't, you bash on it without knowing crap about it. Case closed. Stop trying to counter my saying with nonsense, you are only making a fool of yourself.

Can't come up with something to counter what I said other than that ? Haha ! Again you are just digging yourself in a deeper hole.

Another thing that makes no sense, you are the one that came with the issue of Charr bags that would make their possessor more powerful and imbalanced. (not thinking before writing again hmm ?)

I said that ? Where ?

Syntax please.

Pathetic argument. No surprise here yet again.

Irrevelant.

Yes, right now, LDoA is a title that you can only achieve through deleveling. Doesn't please you ? Try another title.

I think that your view of things would make the title too easy to achieve. Did I ever put aside the alternative to LDoA ? No, I've said it earlier. You are blabbering nonsense yet again.

Put your glasses back on.

Amusing again. Yet you fail to insult me because it is clearly you that fail to understand what is written in my posts. I feel I'm arguing with a teenager.

lol ? You have nothing to come up with other than spelling errors ? I've ignored your "your" that should be "you're" until then, you are in know position to correct me.

Yet you failed to understand what I wrote earlier which was of a blatant simplicity.

Ah ! Well there is the question ! You never tried. Well, why are you so obsessed with this title then ?

Because Anet won't create a new map for the sole purpose of the LDoA title ?

End game content is different from early game content which is only profitable for a few people seeking the title. (you are not thinking before writing again)

A reward of sort for those who spends alot of time in presearing, perhaps also to remove the bag market that went for insane prices. Extra-Inventory space means Anet will make the LDoA title easier in the future ? Nonsense again.

Irrevelant.

Again this obsession with the LDoA title. Come on, tell us why you want this title so badly.


Again you criticize something which you admitted you totally ignore. And that "you didn't even tried" like you wrote in your last post. *sigh*

Interesting method Mithran, but I think it would be a mess to put in place (seperating codes for presearing and postsearing ect), and even if it would work you'll find people again that will complain about this about not behing fast enough, and will want a short-cut.

You seem to like to use imagination instead of eyes.
I wrote about DP. Does DP exist in PreAscalon?
Hm... NO.
The change is meant for the WHOLE game. I had already thought about it. So nothin you can say can refute the change.
It is possible.
It is plausible.
Won't unbalance the game.
At level 20, you'll get 1 XP from level 10..14 creatures. And 0XP from 0..9 ones.
A level 11..14 degen using creature can kill you with a hard lag hit.
This would allow players to recover the DP by killing 150 of them... nice... no real change.

Yep, people want shourcuts, people is lazy. Peopla must work for titles. They are for that. Even if they find a shorcut, it is removed, like happened with Lightbringer exploited ilegal farming.

Things change, and sometimes jokes become a real thing.
Time for LDoA.

My point is not to make LDoA easy.
Is to make it possible without Death Leveling and allow to have also Survivor.
How can you defend Ascalon if you are dead?

I know is hard to find arguments to refute something irrefutable. Keep trying, but please. No more 'answer step by step superquoted posts... they are annoying and hard to read.

Wait, you want Anet to put a minimum of 1xp instead of 0xp in the whole game ? You know it was like that in the beginning ? And that it was removed in a patch after a while right ? There must have been a good reason to do so.

Well here's the problem actually, I doubt Anet wants to give an advantage to one chapter over the other. If you allow LDoA and Survivor on a same prophecies character, it will give this player 1 extra title attainable over the other chapters, which is, not fair for them.

Who knows, perhaps Anet added this title in for you to choose between massives deaths and no deaths at all !

Dead ? You character never dies, he always ressurects !

Sigh... You know you don't need to quete the very last post?
And again the quoterama...

Well... they probably remove it to prevent people from gettin to level 20 in PreAscalon.
Now is acepted.
Thing change.

Guild Wats is not 3 games.
Is one in chapters.
You want all? Buy all.
Prophecies has Defender.
Cantha has alliegance titles.
Elona has commander, sunspear and lightbringer.
Oh... they actually gave more title to different campaings!

Clap, clap, clap. Yep, you keep trying, you keep failing.
Althought I like people not to surrender and keep triying, please, I insist. No more quoted step by step answers.

Speculation.

It is three stand-alone game, not expansions, one does not require the other to work.


Another one that doesn't think before posting. Must I hold you by the hand and make you see your mistakes all the time ?

LDoA is the ONLY title not attainable by Factions and Nightfall characters who possess the three chapters. Thus giving the possibility to get survivor with LDoA is a one title advantage over characters created in Factions/Nightfall.

Sheesh, is that so hard to actually take time and think about what you are about to write ?

You are quite funny going to conclusions about failings though, try again when I'll actually fail.

Whatever. I'll just ignore whatever 'input' you have from here on out because its all complete bollocks. Half of your 'comebacks' were directed towards parts of a paragraph so you could attempt to mock little bits for apparently making no sense, when instead they made perfect sense with the rest of what was said.
The other half is just pathetic... You have quite obviously completely ran out of things to say that are related to what i originally started out as and have turned to attempting to mock me for whatever you possibly can. You start trying to mock me for my Maths when what you quoted contained nothing to do with Maths. Your 'comeback' still doesn't explain to me where the maths was that i was so bad at, instead you try to continue my little point on your spelling mistakes by retaliating with some of my own. Still completely irrelevant. You wonder if you're argueing with a teenager. I wonder if i'm argueing with a toddler.

You last post was nothing more than small quotes with an attempt at a smart arsed comment in reply. Not a single counter point in it anywhere, or at least not 1 that was relevant in the slightest.

Please just stop replying in this thread. You have almost completely stopped bringing up counter points to peoples suggestions and have instead turned to trying to insult people. You haven't brought a single useful piece of information to this thread, not a single suggestion on how to improve on my idea, nothing.

The only note worthy things you've said in the last 4 posts. However. Sunspear AND Lightbringer are both attainable in Nightfall only. Kurzick/Luxon Alliegance titles are only attainable in Factions. Legendary Death-leveller of Ascalon is only attainable in the tutorial section of Prophecies. Nothing is stopping you gaining Survivor AND the other 4 titles mentioned. LDoA and Survivor is impossible.
As you seem to be so fond of saying now, did you even think about this before you posted? Nightfall and Factions both have 2 exclusive titles (fair enough, both titles in factions is almost impossible) and you can also gain Survivor. Prophecies is an either/or situation, even if you could gain both you'd still be 1 down on the other chapters.

Wow, bold. You should reread what you wrote earlier, all what you have written in your past posts just evades my arguments and questions. See, now you completely ignore my entire last post and my question.

Bollocks ? Hardly.

You just can't come up with anything to answer back, so you are trying to put the card of ignorance on my back.

Try again kiddo, you're not fooling anybody.

Running out of things to say ? I could respond to you, if you could at least provide me some material which I can answer to. Your posts are devoid of any arguments, it's filled with awful comparisons, irrevelant information, and no answers to my points.

No ? Post 44 ? I said you should multiply the exp per level per 4 (15minutesx4=1 hour) that a lvl14 boss would give you per kill, and then multiply by 10 to 16(what a normal deleveling sessions take) and see if the result is higher than the 1000-1500xp a deleveler does per 10-16 hours. Grinding the boss would get much much more exp during this laps of time, whereas you said deleveling would "progressed alot more than those who buggered off to do other things."

You... came up with the reasoning that this way we could get lvl 20 in 10-16 hours. You totally didn't understood cr*p of that easy math problem.

You put this on my back ? Ha ! Funny, I thought you were the one with no more arguments and thus tried to answer back by criticizing a spelling mistake in the first place, and seeing all your mistakes, you weren't in position to judge on this.

Second time you use this "elementary school" comeback. "You're stupid !" "No, you're more stupid."

Unoriginal and with no effect at all.

Same as above, if you would actually answer me straight away, instead of evading my questions/arguments with nonsense, perhaps I would be able to counter whatever you've brought so far.

Just look at your post, I asked you a straight question, two times. No answer. Geez, what a surprise here !

This only sentence just proves to everybody you can't answer me anything back. You are actually asking me to back up from this argument because you are tired of it.

Put back your glasses on sherlock.

Man, geez, you don't grasp it do you ?

Everybody and their mother know that a person with Prophecies or/and Nightfall only won't be able to get the Allegience titles, duh.

Everybody and their mother know that a person with Prophecies or/and Factions can't get Sunspear and Lightbringer, duh.

And everybody and their mother know, that like the majority of players, who owns the 3 chapters, will have a possible title less if Anet allows LDoA and Survivor on a same character if a player create a Factions or Nightfall character. Because ONLY a prophecies character could get both in this case. So this character, with LDoA and LS will go into the two other campaigns, totally able to get the titles of these chapters.

In the end, if your brain cannot understand this right now, a Prophecies character CAN GET ALL titles from Nightfall and Factions. A Factions/Nightfall character CANNOT get LDoA, so if you add the possibility to get Survivor with LDoA in pre, Prophecies characters will have a one title advantage.

Understand now ?

Sheesh.

lol...

Stop with the wine n' cheese act.

Put the time in, or don't worry about the title.

There's bigger fish to fry in pre, than the OP's laziness. This title is available to EVERYONE. Except to those that lack the dedication.

Now...if you want to address an issue of pre that needs to be hit with the "fairness" stick, look to those that have glitched in gear from post searing. Currently, those of us that didn't use an exploit to get gear from our guild halls (or started playing after the glitch was patched), don't have the same access to items.

That, my friends....is a real issue. Not some title that everyone has the same level of access to.

I'm sorry, Lilanthe. I kinda had to use your quote against you.
But I can totally understand where you're coming from! I think I understand (or at least I want to understand) everyone's point...

Once again though, please try and be kind to one another. We're a community and ideas prosper better in an environment of understanding. They'll wither, however, when we start throwing each others ideas onto BBQs.

Also, I think a mod will close this if things get too out of hand, and I wouldn't want to see that happen. Thanks in advanced. ^_^

As someone who enjoys the atmosphere in Pre more than Post, I personally was looking for a way to gain in level in Pre. If possible, I myself wanted to get to level 20 in Pre as hitting max level gives you access to all (most) possible attribute points. I did not aim for a maxed title to be had in the game; it just came with the level.

To me, the LDOA title as been awarded as a gesture to the first batch of players that already obtained level 20 a long time ago. As such, the title wasn't meant to be gained from scratch, but more as an added surprise. I personally believe that the whole point of making a title proclaim 'LEGENDARY', is to signal that the peep in question is something special. Having said that, obtaining the title should never be made easier, as is reflected in most replies here.

In terms of obtaining the title: Dleveling is indeed a bit weird. To me it feels like exploiting the game's mechanism. Making the title doable by adding an easily accessible level 14 enemy will enable more people to obtain the title, because the path to the title is observed more clearly. However, having many LDOA players doesn't make the title all that Legendary anymore...

Alternatively, if (a) level 14 enemy(ies) was(were) to be added at all, I'd love for them to be on the far side of the Northlands, with massive Charr groups acting as its/their bodyguard. Quite possibly, this could be played in terms of a repeatable quest, like saving some Charr-captured merchant that had gone astray in the Northlands when the Charr invaded. In return, after killing ALL charr in the Northlands, the Merchant would even be grateful enough to award you with a limited expert salvage kit for a bit of a donation.

As much as I hate the deathleveling way for a title (being a legendary defender by dying over and over is awkward indeed), I believe the construct to get the title with (some) death(s) shouldn't be changed, especially to keep the current LDOA'ers happy. After all: if getting both LDOA and Survivor were possible, present LDOA'ers would feel cheated having died over and over... Perhaps the repeatable quest would structurally involve you dying at least once, to make sure Survivor can't be had as well.

After all, if both Survivor and LDOA were to be possible simultaneously, more people could start anew in Pre, focussing less on the upcoming GW:EN. ANet wouldn't want that, would they?

If anything they should just rename the title... I like the coffin-filler suggestion.

Making it an actual effort-based title would just mean that all those who grinded it like plants suddenly get a title buff, as it would then also reflect doing slightly more interesting things than deathleveling.
Kind of like when Anet closed the Sunspear exploit and left it closed for many months (up to today) so that those who abused it quickly can brandish the title with unjust exclusivity... rewarding their lame playstyle.

Zomg, a Prophecies char will have 1 up on a Factions and Nightfall char. If they manage to get this title without dieing once then go to post and get the rest of the exp needed. Anyone who puts in that much effort deserves 1 up on the rest.

Oh and currently characters made and killed before the introduction of the Survivor title can't get it, so all new chars have 1 up on them. That doesn't seem to be bothering Anet, so why would this?

I could say the same about Survivor. Theres nothing Legendary about experience farming dumb AI mobs to get your title after completing loads of high exp - low risk quests in Cantha. If i could get that title on my old Ranger i would actually go for it... but i can't. That and i don't even try on new chars because it just makes you take unecessary caution and makes the game obscenely dull imo.

Okay, say they added something, a boss for instance, to pre searing that let you level up normally to lvl 20. It'd take a hell of a long time, and it'd be completely boring, but it's worth it, right? As long as it takes less time than AFKing for deathleveling.

I got my LDoA a couple of weeks ago, and you know what I'd be asking if Anet added something like this? First thing I'd say was "Hey. I spent 400 more hours than everyone else has to now to get this title. Do I get compensation for this? That's 400 hours of gameplay that I just lost." After all, when they changed the quest to get Razah, people who'd done it already got compensated. Why shouldn't I? And the rest of the people who did it the long way?

Alright, that was sort of a joke. Sort of. I really don't care about how everyone else gets their title. I'm happy that I have mine. One point that I didn't see anyone make (although I did only read the first two pages) was how is it fair to Factions and Nightfall characters? Why should Prophecies get an additional title (because with this new method, a Prophecies character could get both survivor and LDoA)?

Now there is a way to fix this. Add a level 13 boss for all I care. That would mean that you'd still have to deathlevel that last little bit (after all quests done at lvl 19, you still have 2000 xp to go), so it'd still be impossible to get both survivor and LDoA.

Of course, there is still a part of me that says to leave it as is. But if they were to do something, I'd prefer it so that it doesn't make characters from one campaign better off than from the others.

Perhaps I should've expanded on that, I meant something is considered legendary if there's a low chance of another random peep also having the same characteristics. It's legendary to have reached the maximum level in Pre because most other players only reach level 20 in post. Similarly, it's legendary to be a survivor, because pretty much everyone dies at least once before that title.

So, I'm not referring to the path to the title being legendary, I just state the threshold for reaching the title is legendary, considering you'd be one of the few who pull it off.

/signed to make the title attainable by actually playing the game and not afking it.

Thats why I was never interested in drunkard or other titles that need afking.

Again (and again, and again). NO.

If you have Prophecies, you can make prophecies characters.
If you can make Prophecies characters, you can have LDoA.
Almost no People go for all titles in all characters.

You may give one more title to a character, but you don't to an account.
And that's what matter. Any player can make a Prophecies character.
One more title to a character? Who cares?

What to keep a pointless Deathleveling title? Rename it to:
"Sad Martir of Ascalon"

And, again. Stop the quoted answers step by step.
That is one of the main tools of at forum troll , and you don't want to be a forum troll.

The survivor title was added after a lot of people died.
Are they cheated? No. They didn't knew the title was going to be added.
Instead of resetting the death counters, they just added the title, and mostly new characters started to get it.
So the 'it's not fair for old charaters' argument is not valid.

Two titles obtained by AFKng is more than enough.

Dear Meat Axe. Grats on your toon Robot P for getting LDoA.

I'd like to make a note to any opposers of any alternative way that this is not about making the title easier or faster to get but to have an alternative way to get it.
I'd also like to point to the fact that the alternative way should be an alternative way to gain xp after having reached level 16 (or perhaps 15) thus imo a hard mode, only accesable to lvl 16's (or perhaps 15's) would remove all possibility of powerleveling this title.
Should it be faster then deathleveling? 400 hours you said Meataxe? Someone else mentioned 800 hours but this is realy irrelevant as most of the time is spend afk! For drunkart and sweet tooth you atleast have to be there yourself to click that stack of xxx in your inventory (or use a macro and loose your account asap).

Some people thinks that if theres a faster way to get this title then by deathleveling that this is wrong.
Some other think that if theres an alternative way to get this title hat this should not be with less efford!

A choice between more time but less efford and less time but more efford is fair imo (and I say again, most of the time spend by deathlevelling is spend while doing absolutely nothing!)

The thing about surviver and LDoA..my sweet primary ranger I made 2 years back will never be a surviver and thus has even 1 title less then anyone who can get the LDoA title..how is that fair? Max titles was unfair right from the start and besides..I think anyone who went through the efford (not time!) to get LDoA and surviver may even deserve 1 more title..it would be a unique challenge.

I will say once more...the efford that most current LDoA speak about is the efford of being afk...this is NOT efford, it's just time needed to invest in this title...this is not efford. The only efford is finding someone who you can trust to leave you in the northlands after having let you in and the actual deathlevel setup which I know is NOT ''just a 3 minute walk in the park'' kinda thing. Grinding to lvl 16 is efford and I think a hard mode with lvl 14 charr is faster but it is more efford! I don't realy know if 1 xp is a good idea but it's better then deathleveling

And people, plz dont stop signing ,we want your opinions!

At least with te lucky and unlucky title you have to pay for the tickets.
This has no effort.
So, either they make my small exp change, either they make them lvl 20 in hard mode.

Personally, I don't see why they can't drop in some higher level Charrs and make the title dependant on both reaching lvl 20 and actively playing (in pre-searing) for a significant period of time - say 360 hrs, which is approx 2hrs a day for six months. They'd have to detect afk'ers and not count time idle, but I imagine that wouldn't be too hard to implement.

Under that scheme, the title would actually be harder to obtain - since you couldn't afk any of it. Of course, I wouldn't want it personally, because it's already been tainted by the silly death-level exploiters.