Make 'Legendary Defender of Ascalon' a respectable title

I'm not against an alternative method to acquire the title, I just wouldn't want it to be "dummified" like you said. If this ever get implemented, I'd only wish this alternative method takes as much time as those who are death-leveling, so that neither alternative gets more benifit than the other.this way, the value of the title would stay intact (as the most time-consuming PvE title) it will just be another way for people who can't/don't want to let their computer running for 10 hours straight.

Can i introduce you to this thing called 'Reality'. Your saying that you'd only be happy if this title was changed but took exactly the same amount of time as afking it? I'm assuming you know what afk is. You can afk while asleep, you can afk while at work, you can afk while making dinner. You're clocking up time without actually been there, the amount of time your actually there is maybe a minute or 2 killing the foe(s) you just death leveled and maybe a few minutes setting up the foe(s) before going afk. So thats maybe 5 minutes of work.
As i'm assuming you meant this. Your saying that if your actually at the computer putting some actual effort in that 5 minutes of work should equal your few hours of effort?
The title should take as long as you were actually at your computer. You were at it for 5 minutes, afk for 3 hours. So in those 3 hours you should've progressed alot more than those who buggered off to do other things.

Stop trying to justify the afk'ing in any way, shape or form.

Five minutes to set up a Charr deleveling session ? You have no idea what you are talking about. A minute or two killing 12+ charrs lvl 17-20 ? Again you have no idea what you a talking about. Death-leveling for 3 hours ? What the hell are you smoking ? You don't seem to know jack about deleveling, you credibility at criticizing deleveling just took a big hit.

Now you in particular, are sounding alot like "I want a short-cut" from my post earlier. What Im read from your post is that if Anet provided you a boss that would take 500-600 hours to get to lvl 20, you wouldn't grind it, considering "it's not fast enough ?"

Either way, grinding a lvl14-15 boss/unit would actually take as much time in the end. And I very much doubt Anet would add a bunch of high level charrs/bosses for a pocket of people who want the title, and thus, unbalancing the entire Northlands to people not interested in the title (and I'm pretty sure Anet prioritize balance and newcomers over titles seekers)

"Dummifing" the title, that's what you want.

In the end, what you want is this nice and rare title under you name, but you want it the fastest and effortless way possible.

Heh, and yet, I can totally destroy your argument of delevelers doing more experience than the ones who would grind a lvl 14 boss (don't get me started on a lvl16 boss haha)

A deleveler gains about 1000-1500xp per 10-16 hours(depends on the level)

Doing a normal Charr Boss hunt take 5-8 minutes, let's say it takes 15 minutes to get to the lvl 14 boss and kill it.

lvl16 you'll get 256xp per kill
lvl17 you'll get 128xp per kill
lvl18 you'll get 64xp per kill
lvl19 you'll get 32xp per kill (looks scary huh ? But considering you'll get 75-80% your level by quests, it doesn't seem like so anymore)

Now multiply those numbers by 4 for one hour, and then by 10-16.

You'll get to lvl 20 4,5(not counting the quests, or it would be MUCH faster than that) times faster than a deleveler.

Byebye argument.

Oh well sorry for not understanding the in depth methods of how to set up an afk leveling session for the AI in pre-searing. Sounds like someone is getting bitter that all those hours of so called effort might be actually been made into real effort. Next time i want to death level a pet for my heros i'll make sure to run by the strategies with you first.

So your trying to bash my idea of maybe adding a boss into the mix in order to gain exp? Come on then, where are your solutions on how to get this title without afk'ing it?......... well?

Balance and newcomers... what do Charr Bags have to do with that? Weren't they for people who stay in pre, becoming much more powerful than everyone else in there. And you talk to me about balance in pre-searing... And more to the point. What does adding a high level boss have to do with balance? Stick him in a corner... who knows, maybe the gates to this boss only open after killing all other mini-Charr bosses. But until you can explain to me how adding an enemy into an area unlanaces a zone... stop talking.

Dummifing? Theres nothing more 'dummified' than having to death level charr/pets in order to get exp to gain a title.

A death level spends about 30 minutes to an hour of those 10-16 hours actually at there computer putting 'effort' in killing things as they keep dieing at a ressurection shrine. Ever done the Masters quest (forgot its name) outside Gate of Torment? See the resemblance?

So you can get this title in 10-16 hours... if as you say it takes 15 minutes per boss run. So how about it actually takes longer? Do i look like i've spent weeks of planning like an Anet dev team may do in order to not 'cheapen' this title?

Since you seem to enjoy the mathematical side of this. 1/10 of the actual time spent gaining exp is actually spent at your computer, at the most. As you said, it takes ~600 hours to gain this title. So in terms of time spent at your pc it should take 60 hours. not including the time taken to reach that stage already.

Care to rant more about how my idea is bad without coming up with any of your own? If thats all your going to do, piss off.

That is one aspect of this that has not been clarified previously. People wait to do almost all of their quests until they reach level 19. So the cross over from level 19 to 20 is somewhat faster. The big grind is lvl 17-18-19, and some would argue, the endless charr runs that take you from 14-16.

Well that's just it, you rant on something you don't even understand, that you probably didn't tried, yet you act has if you did know all about it. Your credibility = zero

Have something in your eyes ? Buy a pair of glasses, I've already explained mine.

Charr bags makes you much more powerful ? I must have missed something. Charr bags create imabalance ? What the hell ?

Well, presearing behing a tutorial geez. Every monsters are lvl 3-5-8-10. Add a high level boss somewhere there, and someone who which to explore the place is behing limited because of a few persons that want this title.

Its a nice first impression of a game to have a monster that kills you in one hit for regular joe in the first few areas of the game.

What the hell is this argument ? It makes no sense. The only possible way to get LDoA now is to delevel charrs. "Dummifying" something would mean to create an easier alternative to achieve said goal.

Do you even think before writing ?


Wow, you didn't even understood (not that I am surprised). Learn your maths.

How much longer do you think it would take ? The area is very small, the reasonnable place they would put a lvl14 boss is right behind or up the hill further behind the Charr Shrine, it doesn't take an eternity to get there.

Do you really think Anet would cheapen one of the rarest title that much so you can get to lvl20 in pre in less than 100 hours ? Dream !

Amusing.

Edited by Arkantos - If you need to use a * in the word, the word is not appropriate, so don't bother typing it.

Please try and be nice to one another. While this is a debate of a title, I don't think it's necessary for us to start making each other feel bad over anything.

I can understand both points of the argument:

* Some people think Death-leveling should be the only bridge between level 16 to 19. They believe the title should take a very long time to get, in order to keep its value high and the number of people with the title low. Since titles are suppose to show a players impressive feats, this makes perfect sense.

* Some people believe that Death-leveling does not reflect what the title should be about. They think they should be able to grind for the title and not have to sacrifice their character repeatedly to Moa Birds. Since titles should be capable of being achieved through active means, this also makes perfect sense.

Now that we understand both parties, I think we should put all arguments aside and find a "middle-ground" where everyone will be happy.

People who support the title already think adding a level 15 to Pre would depreciate the value. Fair enough.
People who want to see change in the way you obtain the title want a means of not having to die for it. I don't see a problem with this.

Lets go from there. Once again, please be constructive and respectful to one-another.

/Signed

Nothing should require deathleveling. That in itself is rather cheap.

Deleveling is lame and it s like cheating cause you dont do a thing other then let your comp work while your afk.hell,give a lvl 28 boss and let everyone try to kill it,if you can.you got your title ! So far those who got the def title only proovethey got empty time to kill and money to pay for electric.bill nothing more,not even skill.

/not signed

Presear was never meant for you to reach lvl 20. The title was put in for those few that took the time to do it already. You DONT NEED EVERY freakin title in the game. And if you do REALLY want the title then spend the time to get it.

Personally I'll probably never get the title and dont really want it. I dont need to get every title in the game.

You are one a few. Seriously, there will be people who complain about every title in the game until ANet just adds a button that when you click it, it automatically maxes out EVERY title in the game for you. Oh, and then people who fairly earned the titles would complain. So no matter what happens, people are going to complain about this title.

I'm not saying that it being 600 is any better. Stop making it out like I said it was. You just said someone in your alliance had more than 800 hours clocked and wasn't even close to finishing the title. I just wanted to point out that either a) You've vastly exaggerated your numbers or b) hes doing something wrong.

I bring up triple xp scrolls because they make the title earning process faster. Your original "800 and not even close" number is now down to 200 or less the title complete. And for the record, I didn't use a single xp scroll when getting my LDoA title, so don't try to give me that crap "you have no say in this title LOL". I have as much say in it as you do. I'm not even completely opposed to your idea. No need to get your panties in a twist now...

/notsigned

am 476 hours into my pre character and he is already level 18 and going strong. I have decided to put the time and effort into getting this title. If other people want to get it then they should put the same effort in that all the previous people have and those of us currently going for it.
Putting higher level mobs in pre would ultimately diminish the title's value for everyone who has been willing to put the time in to get it.

If you dont want to get the title using the current methods then dont get.

Currently, Defender of Ascalon is barely a Easter Egg.
The way it is got require you to have a frind with a lot of spare time or death level.
Even getting 1 exp per kill would be better than having to death level, because this removes the chance to have Survivor and Defender at the same time.

That is what should be changed.

MithranArkanere, I could kiss you!

If people don't like the idea of a sole level 15 in pre, but others want a way to level without dying, why doesn't ANet make it so you get 1XP for kills that are 6 levels or below you? I don't see this as being unfair. You'll have your grind factor and death-leveling will still be the quickest way to get LDoA!

Feedback!

/notsigned

Not respectable? Worthless? I really don't see that; people work very hard for this title, and it is obtainable for everyone to get, just perhaps not in the time that others do. One thing though, you did get right: afk'ing. THe solution? Make animals die from fatigue after attacking you too much in the pre. Simple, revalues this title. Case closed.

EDIT: I just saw the 1xp idea, and it's definitely something Arenanet should have put in before this title was made.

Pardon me for being off topic here but how would "setting up your heroes" = MAXED Lightbringer Title. Sure IF you left them in a area under BOUNTY blessing they would kill some groups. BUT there are only so many enemies per map spawn...

OH and /signed.

FOR all you people who support the current AFK method of gaining LDoA... HOW IS DEATH LEVELING A GROUP MOAS defending ascalon? Infact, how is death leveling at all make you defender of ascalon.

Yea yea people will say "But the people who spent 200 hrs on it will be cheated!".
All I can say is that if you death level for a honorable title like LDoA, you dont deserve it.

EDIT:

FLAME AWAY! Because deep down, you know I'm right.

Your trying to defend death leveling with nothing but crap so far. If my crediblity = zero, your credibility is into the realm of imaginary numbers.

1. I have a pair of glasses, 2 pair actually.

2. What would have that to do with me getting soemthing in my eye?

If thats the best you can come back with you really have lost this debate.

Sorry, are you been picky? Ran out of things to come back with?

As you said, the highest level MONSTER is level 10. In that 1 quote you have just basically said that the LDoA title shouldn't even exist because Pre-searing is a tutorial. What your saying goes beyond this title and its suggestions to make it possible without death leveling. Perhaps you should think through what your saying before spouting out crap that basically says everything your 'fighting' for shouldn't exist.
Your reducing yourself to saying that people who want to look around (a high level boss is hardly stopping them from LOOKING) can no longer do that thanks to a single boss. If thats the best you can come up just leave now before you start embaressing yourself.

Lol, it prepares them for DoA. Get over it. Your arguements are surpassing pathetic now. Since when did a level 14 boss kill you in 1 hit anyway? Unless of course your level 5, in which case it shows you that you shouldn't rush through the game because you *will* get killed by things easily. Your really starting to run out of things to come back with now.

Weird, it makes perfect sense to me. An easier alternative eh? I didn't see people who already had the title complaining about exp farming using low risk builds cheapens the Survivor title. Well, they probably did but thats not even remotely similar to this title. Specially considering this title actually requires you to die several 1000 times. LDoA is basically the 'gain a title for dieing alot' title that some people have been wanting. Yet you defend it. Do you have it by any chance and think that nobody without 100s of hours of time to spend afk should get it?

Yes, reading half of your replies though makes me wonder if you do.

You quoted that? Seriously... why? All i can do with that is say you need to learn English. Its 'understand'. Theres nothing wrong with my maths, i can prove that with my A at A-level and B in Further Maths AS. There is also no maths in what you quoted.

Well considering i have never so much as tried to gain this title because i see it as completely worthless due to the requirement of 100s of hours of death level pets while afk, how the hell would i know? They have an entire post-searing to mess around with. For all i care they could put this boss in the Fire Islands meaning you have to fight there from Ascalon each time, its not as if they have to actually add this location to the map, FoW/UW aren't located on the map, who says the location of the boss they add has to be on the map?
If you seem to think modifying the surroundings is a bit too much, perhaps you should think back to when they added Grenths Footprint + Sorrows Furnace.

Lol, do you honestly think they wouldn't? They added Charr Bags to pre-searing which serve no purpose other than to help people who farm Pre for dyes to make money. They gave us Factions which makes Rank1 Survivor almost worthless. They gave us DoA which makes anyone who isn't a Warrior, Elementalist, Necromancer or Monk worthless.
The only reason why 100 hours spent in pre-searing seems like alot is because:

1. People have characters that spend there ENTIRE life there.

2. This title requires ALOT of hours spent death leveling enemies. 100 hours for a title is still a very long time if you don't compare it to the crap that is the LDoA title currently.

Apologies. I didn't mean it to sound like it was directed at you personally. As for the alliance friend going for it with 800 hours + on the clock, i forgot to add that they also spent time afk in towns, farming and etc that don't count towards gaining this title. I also wasn't aiming the comment about XP scrolls at you, merely a general statement. But it is completely irrelevant bringing it up.

I, and many others, used the AFK method to help to gain the Rank 8, Holy Lightbringer. In total i gained abou 20,000-25,000 from AFK'ing this title. I must've gained about 15,000-20,000 from trapper farming Stygian Veil (before the build was posted for the record... wonder if anyone will quote this in an attempt to 'buff' there E-penis). Its lucky really because i was getting sick of farming it by then, also somebody recently posted the build in the Ranger/Farming forum which led to a complete crash in prices for Stygian Gemstones, but getting another 25,000 LB points this way would've been murder. Even if i had gotten the title honestly i would fully approve any method to make the title slightly easier. That title as it stands is ridiculous also.

Effort? Time? What are you talking about? Your time and effort completely ceased at level 16 when there were no longer any enemies in Pre-searing that you could gain experience from. Did you sit there and actively aid your enemies in killing you by using Frenzy/Healing Signet cancelling? Somehow i think you didn't. You have put no effort into this title since you achieved level 16.

Putting in higher level mobs would diminish the titles value? The only value this title holds currently is that there are actually people on guild wars that would stoop to such a pathetic level to gain a title. Making this title achievable without death leveling would ultimately strengthen this title. It would make it something that was actually worth achieving, something that could be displayed with honour. If someone had this title i would actually think less of them than before. If someone had Ale-Hound i would think they were rich, but i would not think less of them.

I don't have this title. I don't want this title.

After seeing what people who have it has to go through, I would not cheapen the process at all. If you can't commit, then don't expect them to make it easier.

If they make it easier, I propose changing the name from that point on to Not So Legendary Defender of Ascalon.

I made the final system to make LDoA possible and worthy.

BEHOLD!:

You need 140,600XP to get to level 20.
There is already a 'maximum' cap: 280XP.
They could add a 'minimum' cap: 1XP
Even if they made it so creatures grant a minimum 1XP per level, that would be a lot of time anyways, and would have almost no effect anywhere lse in the game, but with DP.
With min 1XP, you'll be able to lose 1%DP by killing 100 low lever monsters.
That way you get more than the 100gold that cost a Morale Blessing, so there won't be any problem with that.

Now, let's see...
You need 140,600 to get to level 20.
You can get up to level 16 without death leveling or taking quest rewards, that is, 93,000XP.
140,600-93,000=47,600XP.
You can get around 12.000 exp with the PreAscalon quests... so...
47,600-12,000=35,600

You'll still need to kill 35,600 mobs to get the title.
But that way people could just kill level 1 mobs to do the job.

Let's tune it even more...

The main point of this title is to kill charr.
Charr are all level 6(A Quest boss), 7, 8 and 10(Char Bosses)
No other creatures are lvel 6 or more.
Easy! Let's remove the 0..5 levels from the picture:
- Less than 5 levels: 1XP.
- Less than 10 levels: 0XP.
That way, at level 16, without Death leveling, you will gain XP ONLY from monsters at level 6 or higher. That s, FORM CHARR ONLY. (Harr!)

So, the final way to get LDoA would be:
1. Kill any mobs until getting to 16.
2. Kill 7..10 charr until getting to 19, 12,800XP left.
Now you can either:
3a. Kill the level 10 bosses, and they will grant you 2 XP each, for being bosses. That is, 8 XP per run.
12,800/8=1,600 times.
3b. Have been wise and saved the quest rewards to finally get to level 20 and fill the possible remaining gaps by doing some Charr boss runs.

Finished.
- To get the title. you'll need to kill more mobs than to get the Lightbringer (10)
- You gain the title by killing, not by being killed.
- Those who already spent the quest rewards would be able to get the title anyways, just in more time.
- No need to AFK (I woul even prevent the monsters from leveling up to completely preent death leveling).
- Althought hard, makes possible to get Survivor at the same time.

And, for the case of complains about 'method of getting' changed.
Well. Tyrian quests give very few exp.
Canthan quests give tons of exp.
You can get Survivor(3) in Cantha in a few weeks if you have some luck with connection and less with a double exp per cap weeked.
Things change.
Do old survivors complain about this? No. I've never seen a 'Canthan quets give to much exp" whine in the forums.
This is exaclty the same, instead of 'My tittlesss, preciusss, give them tu uss, we AFKed mothsss to get them...'
You'll say: "Ah, you kids had things easier, ya know? I got me title before the change!" Yours is a joke, matey!"

See? Everybody happy.