I started Guild Wars on day one with half a dozen family members, adding henchies as needed. Great fun, but as often as not they are unavailable to play, and then I go for a PUG or play something else.
In do-it-yourself mode , GW is great once, maybe twice, and that's it -- same as any other single player game.
Where are the PUGS? (in nightfall)
Mister Overhill
Tingi
PuG's are next to not existant because of the introduction of those darn heroes.
They are the worst thing to be implemented in GW since Prophecies was released.
They are the worst thing to be implemented in GW since Prophecies was released.
tyche7
I still see PUGS all the time. I think Heroes are one of the BEST things to happen to Guild Wars (next to increased storage).
flipfly2004
just get a pve oriented helpful guild... (like mine) we help each other in every way. not only to finish missions but also to provide as much experience as possible... we call it the "pyramid method of teaching" XD
the most xp'd player teaches 2 xp'd palyers (mostly offis)
those 2 teach 4 other members
those 4 teach 8 ppl
and so on....
we are a german guild though ^^
the most xp'd player teaches 2 xp'd palyers (mostly offis)
those 2 teach 4 other members
those 4 teach 8 ppl
and so on....
we are a german guild though ^^
Nemo the Capitalist
i miss pugs as well
but koss is smarter when put on no attack rather thana PUG anyday :P
but koss is smarter when put on no attack rather thana PUG anyday :P
deadmonkey4u
Pugs kill me. I prefer playing with others yes but only with groups of people i know. Heroes/hench are far more reliable. Pugging tends to lead to mission failures due to stupidity, someone leaves, or something to that nature
Alex the Great
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Torqual
It's almost as if any PUG you join is going to be made up of you plus bad players: Smiting Monks, Melee Necromancers and Rangers casting fire spells.
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i'm no an "expert" exactly (i got elites and golds/greens on all my heros but I can only play about 5 classes very well)
But that statement is kinda well........u clump together a lot of people in there.
1. Lol a guy showed me a signet smiter mo/me with mantra of inscriptions and it accually did quite well tyvm
2. conjure flame or mark of rodgert +barrage.......and back in the day thunderclap
3. melee necro......no comment........accually in Abadons gate a necro with demonic flesh, endure pain, defy pain, sig of stenght, and grenths balance can do a fair amount of damage if they run to melee ranger and get the crpa beaten out of them for a while.
Dj Tano
they have been flushed down the toilet on the second day...
FFF_Mara
I actually really like my heroes and I also go for the "many-eles" tactics. And its really fun with another player and fill up with heroes or hench, like has been said before. I generally do that for questing as most quests are doable with that combination.
However, when it comes to missions I am still looking for players first and when we dont get enough, I offer to put in any heroes. But I dont pressure anyone to accept them, like some do too. Everyone seems to think he or she has the ultimate setting for the hero. ANyone else got that impression? Its a very good thing that pinging the skills is possible. ive seen hero monk skill bars that were really horrible.
Its a matter of balance and also a time issue. Im out of the house for 10 hours a day, not counting doing groceries and stuff and quite frankly I sometimes jsut dont have the nerve to wait for hours to find enough players or try some missions with PUGs over and over again. Still heroes are never as much fun to play with as humans. Also I have done some quests and missions so damn often that I cant be bothered to explain a good tactis to ppl who dont listen anyway -or at least discuss it- and its simply quicker and more soothing to my nerves to do them alone. I could also do that with a single player game but i just like my chars so much
However, when it comes to missions I am still looking for players first and when we dont get enough, I offer to put in any heroes. But I dont pressure anyone to accept them, like some do too. Everyone seems to think he or she has the ultimate setting for the hero. ANyone else got that impression? Its a very good thing that pinging the skills is possible. ive seen hero monk skill bars that were really horrible.
Its a matter of balance and also a time issue. Im out of the house for 10 hours a day, not counting doing groceries and stuff and quite frankly I sometimes jsut dont have the nerve to wait for hours to find enough players or try some missions with PUGs over and over again. Still heroes are never as much fun to play with as humans. Also I have done some quests and missions so damn often that I cant be bothered to explain a good tactis to ppl who dont listen anyway -or at least discuss it- and its simply quicker and more soothing to my nerves to do them alone. I could also do that with a single player game but i just like my chars so much
trustgw
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Originally Posted by Navaros
As stated in other threads about this topic, the above quote is completely incorrect. The back of the Guild Wars box states very clearly that Guild Wars is supposed to be a solo game if you want it to be.
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This is not a thread against Solo play. If a person wants to play by themselves then I think the game should support that, but I believe GW should also support the PUG PVE Player. Right now it is has KILLED it.
Aeon221
You people do realize that the quality of drops increases exponentially when using humans as opposed to henches right? Not having to farm because I pick up a gold or two (from drops, not chests) per pugged run can make it worthwhile.
I've got no problem bringing pugs that don't mind adjusting their builds. No one has an issue with that in PvP, I don't see why PvE people feel it is their holy right to run a shit awful build. LoD + every other heal party spell and Holy Haste does not make a good bar, whatever the voices in your head told you. Neither does power attack + all temp health skills + three stances.
If a pug is willing to make a decent bar, I'm willing to bring him/her along with my heroes (an sh ele, a mm w/ aegis and convert hexes, and an rc prot), and maybe even a few other people too. But as soon as one of them shows a tardbar and refuses to alter it, out they go.
Otherwise I grab a guildy, get on vent, and enjoy myself with some skilled support from someone who won't draw a penis on the minimap just because he or she (yes, my guild has females) has never known that you could draw on it.
Even worse is that puggies just don't follow the leader in a map with multiple movement options. If I'm calling for a squad in HA, I don't have to tell them to follow me. Puggies should know to do the same because the henches do it for them from day one.
Sheesh. If a few more PvE people took their heads out of whatever cavity they stuffed them in and learned a bit about how to play, I'd be more than willing to pug with them. My 12 year old brother picked up how to make a decent build and play in a competent fashion only a couple of days after getting the game. The average pugger probably has an order of magnitude more playtime logged, but can't handle simple concepts.
Maybe they should add droppable flags and aggression buttons for pug players, so that I can tell them even more simply what to do.
I've got no problem bringing pugs that don't mind adjusting their builds. No one has an issue with that in PvP, I don't see why PvE people feel it is their holy right to run a shit awful build. LoD + every other heal party spell and Holy Haste does not make a good bar, whatever the voices in your head told you. Neither does power attack + all temp health skills + three stances.
If a pug is willing to make a decent bar, I'm willing to bring him/her along with my heroes (an sh ele, a mm w/ aegis and convert hexes, and an rc prot), and maybe even a few other people too. But as soon as one of them shows a tardbar and refuses to alter it, out they go.
Otherwise I grab a guildy, get on vent, and enjoy myself with some skilled support from someone who won't draw a penis on the minimap just because he or she (yes, my guild has females) has never known that you could draw on it.
Even worse is that puggies just don't follow the leader in a map with multiple movement options. If I'm calling for a squad in HA, I don't have to tell them to follow me. Puggies should know to do the same because the henches do it for them from day one.
Sheesh. If a few more PvE people took their heads out of whatever cavity they stuffed them in and learned a bit about how to play, I'd be more than willing to pug with them. My 12 year old brother picked up how to make a decent build and play in a competent fashion only a couple of days after getting the game. The average pugger probably has an order of magnitude more playtime logged, but can't handle simple concepts.
Maybe they should add droppable flags and aggression buttons for pug players, so that I can tell them even more simply what to do.
trustgw
The worst player in a PUG game is not the bad player, but the egotistical elitist nerd that thinks he is gods gift to the game and seems to be in complete and utter shock if someone (god forbid) is not very good. Please stop crying. It is only a game. Now give me back my PUGS!!!
The Ernada
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Originally Posted by trustgw
The worst player in a PUG game is not the bad player, but the egotistical elitist nerd that thinks he is gods gift to the game and seems to be in complete and utter shock if someone (god forbid) is not very good. Please stop crying. It is only a game. Now give me back my PUGS!!!
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As for support for PUGs, I guess there really isnt any, except for the chance at socializing. Maybe they could put an XP increase or gold increase for having humans over henchies/heroes. As long as there are options that support PUG play and solo with heroes play, I'm fine with it.
I just wish that people would stop screaming for Heroes to be taken out. I don't scream for PUG play to be taken out so dont take away my option to play with heroes.
cyberjanet
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Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn
PUG's are alive usually around the weekend times.
Last weekend I gave it a shot just to see and it cured me from it real quick. |
At this point I ran out of time and had to leave. After we had returned to the outpost, and not during the battle, note. The second group was just a bit incompetent not rude, and we could have sorted out the luring in a retry. I would probably have gone again if I had the time. Anyway...
Next day I went along with two guildies who needed mission and bonus, plus heroes, and we succeeded first try. And then did Abaddon's Mouth equally promptly.
PUGs are dead for me, killed not by heroes but by rude players. The new way to play is with at least one other person and favourite, well-equipped heroes. This gives you a fabulous opportunity to balance your team according to what profession the people have and the environment you're going into. If you can get four people and four heroes, coordinating nicely, that is super fun.
I don't like playing all heroes and henchies. It gets a bit lonely. Although it does mean you have to figure out where to go and what to do by yourself, rather than just clicking follow. And I like someone to chat to while I play - I'm always on teamspeak - so we can discuss where to go and what to do.
Torqual
I have lost count of how many times I've completed various of the three Ring of Fire missions with 4/8 or 5/8 due to quitters.
This highlights the principal problem with PUGers. People /ragequit, AI doesn't. A-Net have had the option to fix this for a very long time. They brought in 'reconnect after disconnect' - good move - now they need to put in 'replace after ragequit'.
If a human player quits the mission, why can't the instance continue to run an AI-controlled version of their character with the same appearance, name, build etc. We're not talking like an extra hero with control panel etc. just the behaviour of a henchman.
Obviously the AI replacement should not get any loot or benefit or mission completion but - since we're in an instanced environment - there is no reason why a character shouldn't 'be' in more than one place at one time.
It's just to stop quitters ruining the mission.
Hmm....I have already thought of a way this could be abused. People start the mission and quit instantly so a guildie gets a clone instead of a bog-standard hero.
OK forget this exact replacement idea... but maybe if, say a monk quits then they could be replaced in the Party Bar with a default 'Canthan Monk' etc with a Mhenlo skillset, rather like when you have two copies of Dunkoro in the party.
This highlights the principal problem with PUGers. People /ragequit, AI doesn't. A-Net have had the option to fix this for a very long time. They brought in 'reconnect after disconnect' - good move - now they need to put in 'replace after ragequit'.
If a human player quits the mission, why can't the instance continue to run an AI-controlled version of their character with the same appearance, name, build etc. We're not talking like an extra hero with control panel etc. just the behaviour of a henchman.
Obviously the AI replacement should not get any loot or benefit or mission completion but - since we're in an instanced environment - there is no reason why a character shouldn't 'be' in more than one place at one time.
It's just to stop quitters ruining the mission.
Hmm....I have already thought of a way this could be abused. People start the mission and quit instantly so a guildie gets a clone instead of a bog-standard hero.
OK forget this exact replacement idea... but maybe if, say a monk quits then they could be replaced in the Party Bar with a default 'Canthan Monk' etc with a Mhenlo skillset, rather like when you have two copies of Dunkoro in the party.
Amy Awien
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| If a person wants to play by themselves then I think the game should support that, but I believe GW should also support the PUG PVE Player. Right now it is has KILLED it. |
Quote:
| ... I don't see why PvE people feel it is their holy right to run a shit awful build. ... |
It is their skill bar, not yours, and it is their right to use it the way they see fit, not your right to fill it as you see fit. It is their game, for which they payed with their money, not yours, and they have the right to play and enjoy it as much as you.
Giving advice is fine, but trying to control other people, or even the skill bars they bring on their characters is not.
Essentially, it is their right to run their build, whether you like it or not.
freekedoutfish
1) Play Factions then.
2) PUGs are still needed for masters and bonus on missions.
3) PUG numbers have fallen all over the game, not just in NF. The reason isnt heroes, its because players are becoming arrogant and rude and people choose to user supriour AI instead of having to endure attitudes and people who cant follow instructions.
Heroes are a god send.
2) PUGs are still needed for masters and bonus on missions.
3) PUG numbers have fallen all over the game, not just in NF. The reason isnt heroes, its because players are becoming arrogant and rude and people choose to user supriour AI instead of having to endure attitudes and people who cant follow instructions.
Heroes are a god send.
Onarik Amrak
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
It is not heroes that killed PuG's, heroes rescued PvE. It is some players that 'killed' PuG's, it's the rushing, the non-communication and the fanatical drive for achievement that gives PuG's a high risk of being no-fun.
There is a common misconception here where some seem to think they have the right to control another player, or at least their skill bar and their style of play. It is their skill bar, not yours, and it is their right to use it the way they see fit, not your right to fill it as you see fit. It is their game, for which they payed with their money, not yours, and they have the right to play and enjoy it as much as you. Giving advice is fine, but trying to control other people, or even the skill bars they bring on their characters is not. Essentially, it is their right to run their build, whether you like it or not. |
Rocky Raccoon
I think you can still find PUG's and they can be fun. You will always get the dropouts occasionally but you learn to go on. Last night I was in a PUG at the Ring of Fire, we lost 2 people along the way and kept going. We ended up at the last boss with 2 healing monks, 1 ele, 1 tank and 2 rangers. It took us about 25 minutes to take out that 1 boss and nobody even thought of leaving. People were joking we might be there all night because he couldn't take us out and we couldn't get him. We eventually did take him out,and everyone had a great sense of accomplishment. PUG's do still exist and they still can be fun.
TheRaven
Most bad pugs are bad because of a lack of leadership and coordination at the start. If you are the leader, then ask some very simple questions of your team before you start. Follow these rules and you'll have a much better pug experience.
1. When each member joins, ask them to ping their bar. If the bar is decent, say so. If the bar is absolutely horrible then ask if they would consider some advice and changing it. If they won't, kick them. In most cases though, the bar is okay, but could use 1 or 2 skill changes. Suggest the changes and why you'd like the change.
2. If a player does have a bad or sub-par build, don't say "OMFG!!! What a retard!!! That's the dumbest azz build I've ever seen!!!!" You aren't helping that player. Give him the opportunity to learn. Either suggest improvements or politely kick him and suggest that maybe he isn't ready yet for this area.
3. Ask ahead of time if everyone has time to complete the mission. Usually you know before you start if the mission will take a half hour or an hour. Make sure your entire team is willing to commit that time without mom or dad calling them to dinner.
4. Folks sometimes get annoyed at you for taking the time to do this. There's always someone yelling "GOGOGOGOGO!!!!!" "START THE FREAKING MISSION ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Do yourself a favor and kick this person. They don't have the necessary maturity level to play well with others yet and will likely ragequit half way thru when someone else on the team annoys them.
5. Be aware of your surroundings. By this I mean, The Gates of Kryta does not require the same level of skill that the DOA does. Don't insist on perfection in the builds if it isn't necessary for the area.
1. When each member joins, ask them to ping their bar. If the bar is decent, say so. If the bar is absolutely horrible then ask if they would consider some advice and changing it. If they won't, kick them. In most cases though, the bar is okay, but could use 1 or 2 skill changes. Suggest the changes and why you'd like the change.
2. If a player does have a bad or sub-par build, don't say "OMFG!!! What a retard!!! That's the dumbest azz build I've ever seen!!!!" You aren't helping that player. Give him the opportunity to learn. Either suggest improvements or politely kick him and suggest that maybe he isn't ready yet for this area.
3. Ask ahead of time if everyone has time to complete the mission. Usually you know before you start if the mission will take a half hour or an hour. Make sure your entire team is willing to commit that time without mom or dad calling them to dinner.
4. Folks sometimes get annoyed at you for taking the time to do this. There's always someone yelling "GOGOGOGOGO!!!!!" "START THE FREAKING MISSION ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Do yourself a favor and kick this person. They don't have the necessary maturity level to play well with others yet and will likely ragequit half way thru when someone else on the team annoys them.
5. Be aware of your surroundings. By this I mean, The Gates of Kryta does not require the same level of skill that the DOA does. Don't insist on perfection in the builds if it isn't necessary for the area.
bungusmaximus
I like PUG's, but on the condition that I already done the mission myself. I am more at ease whem people mess up missions because I don't need them myself anymore. I sometmes zone to, say, Tahnakai Temple when I'm bored and feel like killing stuff. There's always some people that need help and if they are not too stubborn I always hop on and own some. Doesn't matter if not everyone is über-pro, mediocre players can also finish GW. The only thing that bites are grievers and AFK-ers.
ValaOfTheFens
Recently I've been in quite a few good pugs. Yesterday I ran some guys to a few outposts in Kryta(for free b/c random philanthropy is always good) AND did Villainy with them after meeting them at D'Alessio Seaboard. Then I went to The Wilds and found another great group(there were 2 other Stargate SG-1 fans!!) and after getting the bonus there my group went and did Bloodstone Fen as well. Maybe with Hard Mode on the horizon people are biting the bullet and just pugging to avoid any mishaps that heros and henchies sometimes create. *sigh* I'm dreading going to the Crystal Desert and attempting to get the bonus on the missions there. All the pugs I was in for those missions were either highly incompetent or we had too many leavers to do the bonus. 
Star Gazer
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Originally Posted by prism2525
PuGs are dead.... for me at least. The retardness probablilty is too high to bother. Play as an ele, put 2 SF heroes and a MM with virulence and everything dies in under 5 seconds.
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TheRaven
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Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens
Then I went to The Wilds and found another great group(there were 2 other Stargate SG-1 fans!!)
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BTW, I can help ya with the desert missions. I have all the bonuses there. I think Dunes of Despair was the most frustrating. I got into several "bonus only" pugs that had no clue what the bonus was or how to accomplish it. I finally ended up doing the bonus by myself with henchies only. (YES! It is possible to get the bonus with only heros/henchies! Don't let someone tell you differently.)
freekedoutfish
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Originally Posted by jackie
Might want to get facts right before claiming something like this
...You'll have plenty of opportunities to co-op with other players right from the beginning - (thanks to low level dungeons and group quests) - but you can also avoid all that and solo, whatever feels best for you. To the disappearing of PUG's dilemma, I'm personally hoping that coming hard mode will bring PUG's back to the game like they once were, would be nice to have areas where you actually have to play with other players, you know.. socialize a little bit...It can be surprisingly fun. |
I played WoW for about 2 months, and I found it near impossible to ever get into a groups. The reason being that no one was ever around, or would let me join them.
Most people in that game, at low level, want to solo to level up faster or find rare drops.
The result being that I couldnt do high end quests or dungeons that required teams, and I was stuck doing low-reward quests, fishing or grinding until I was high enough to solo them.
I spent 95% of my time soloing that game due to this.
It didnt have an MMO feel at all to it. And I didnt want to play solo through an entire game, and wait until lvl60 or lvl70 to get to an area where all the PUGing happened.
That would take months just to reach a PUGable area.
I eventually just packed it in and came back to GWs because I have the option to use AI when I cant find a PUG. GWs is superiour in so many ways to WoW, because it offers an alternative to PUGing and offers AI.
If we scrapped AI in GWs, we would end up with a large majority of players unable to find parties to do quests or missions, because (as in WoW) most would be off doing elite zones and high end content.
It would alienate those players who dont like to PUG, and find it hard or boring to solo. Plus you cant solo GWs, because of missions and quests which require teams.
Henches and Heroes are the back bone of GWs, and it would fall apart without them. I would hate to see GWs, end up the way WoW is.
I'd love it infact if Anet removed AI for a whole weekend to see what happened. I can quarantee you, by Monday everyone would be crying out to have the henches and heroes back.
People would be chomping at each other necks shouting "you noob, you completely ruined that mission".
trustgw
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
It is not heroes that killed PuG's, heroes rescued PvE. It is some players that 'killed' PuG's, it's the rushing, the non-communication and the fanatical drive for achievement that gives PuG's a high risk of being no-fun.
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trustgw
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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
If we scrapped AI in GWs, we would end up with a large majority of players unable to find parties to do quests or missions, because (as in WoW) most would be off doing elite zones and high end content.
It would alienate those players who dont like to PUG, and find it hard or boring to solo. Plus you cant solo GWs, because of missions and quests which require teams. |
So if Puggies do not exist here anymore and WoW is bad with puggies, what game has an active PUG group similar to the first GW?
Aeon221
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
There is a common misconception here where some seem to think they have the right to control another player, or at least their skill bar and their style of play.
It is their skill bar, not yours, and it is their right to use it the way they see fit, not your right to fill it as you see fit. It is their game, for which they payed with their money, not yours, and they have the right to play and enjoy it as much as you. Giving advice is fine, but trying to control other people, or even the skill bars they bring on their characters is not. Essentially, it is their right to run their build, whether you like it or not. |
It is courteous and logical to play with an efficient bar and follow the orders of the party leader. When I choose to join a pug group (usually in HA, but sometimes in PvE) I submit to build changes and listen to the orders of my group leader. When I form a group, I expect the same respect and the efficient participation of my group mates.
Why? Because this is not a solo game. It is a team game. Bringing a poor bar may very well cause a wipe, and waste time for the other six or seven members of the party. This is unacceptable, whatever hypothetical rights that player has to a tardbar, and therefore that player has a moral obligation to the rest of the team to at least attempt to make a better bar, or to accept advice on and demands for specific and general changes.
Wish Swiftdeath
I just played in a pug in vizunah we got masters and everyone was great, we all knew our job and nobody died(i almost died when the shiroken at the end spiked me when my enchant had just run out- luckily i had faithful intervention), the mission was just a breeze apart from that.
Its just luck, although it can be frustrating there are some v. decent players out there and i find it much more fun to have a nice chat+get wiped, then play with 7 other AI, which is boring as hell.
Its just luck, although it can be frustrating there are some v. decent players out there and i find it much more fun to have a nice chat+get wiped, then play with 7 other AI, which is boring as hell.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
I played WoW for about 2 months, and I found it near impossible to ever get into a groups. The reason being that no one was ever around, or would let me join them.
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And Guild Wars doesnt' offer AI, it needs it. In WoW, if you weren't able to find a group for an instance (missions, as they're called in WoW), you could still progress through the game soloing and grinding for money and EXP. If there were no Henchman or Heros in Guild Wars, and you were unable to find a group, you were screwed.
Edit: I would also like to mention that instances in WoW aren't required to progress further in the game.
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That aside, I was a little confused about the heroes when they were introduced with Nightfall. To my knowledge, they were implemented mainly due to the fact that Henchman had unsatisfactory skill bars and equipment
...So, why not just improve the henchmans' inventory and bars instead of having to implement Heroes? One reason I thought henchmen "sucked" was "to encourage the player to join with real people". However, it needs to be taken into account that there are quite a few players out there with skillbars and equipment worse than the henchmen. So in the end, you could say that henchmen helped more than hurt.
The simple answer is this:Heroes didn't kill PUGs. PUGs killed PUGs.
trustgw
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Originally Posted by Aeon221
How dare I demand that people whom I have invited into my group play with _at a minimum_ an optimized bar and some common sense!
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It seems like the problem might be that you have poor PUG leadership skills. As I would always play with PUGs I learn a few things about PUG selection and direction. For non Guild games, PUG leadership skill is more powerful then any Elite skill out there.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by trustgw
I think we play two different games. Most of the time the PUGs I play with are fine. I always play with PUGs and I rarely lose any missions/quest when I play with a group. I normally create the group where I select the people I need and then some simple direction and every usually follows and listens. You make it sound like most of the GW Gamer population are a bunch of useless players.
It seems like the problem might be that you have poor PUG leadership skills. As I would always play with PUGs I learn a few things about PUG selection and direction. For non Guild games, PUG leadership skill is more powerful then any Elite skill out there. |
Navaros
A good leader would be required to kick horrible players, which is most of them.
Here is a build I recently saw a PUG player on Thunderhead Keep use.
Here is a build I recent saw a PUG player monk at Naphui Quarter use:
I guarantee that if you ask the PUG players in any district other perhaps than DoA to send you their build, you will see a ton of builds just as insanely ridiculous as these ones.
Is it really any wonder why tons of good players hate PUG players and will never play with them?
Why would any good player wanna waste his time and energy and give himself a headache dealing with stupidity like that in order to make a good PUG, when thank God he doesn't have to due to Heroes and Hench?
Here is a build I recently saw a PUG player on Thunderhead Keep use.
Here is a build I recent saw a PUG player monk at Naphui Quarter use:
I guarantee that if you ask the PUG players in any district other perhaps than DoA to send you their build, you will see a ton of builds just as insanely ridiculous as these ones.
Is it really any wonder why tons of good players hate PUG players and will never play with them?
Why would any good player wanna waste his time and energy and give himself a headache dealing with stupidity like that in order to make a good PUG, when thank God he doesn't have to due to Heroes and Hench?
Age
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Originally Posted by Iuris
Well, why would other people want to play with you? Nothing personal, it's just how one must approach the issue to understand why people dislike forming PUGs, and why Heroes arrives as a solution, not a problem.
(added clarification: people were complaining about PUGs way before heroes arrived. Heroes arrived as a solution to the problem and the result was that the PUGs just couldn't keep up. A human is an unknown and can turn out to be very bad.) |
viper11025
HAhaHAha....Are you serious?
Theres a way to fix this besides your guild. Make better builds for your hero and always carry a monk with you. One more thing thier lvls do matter on thier armor value. Please don't quit GW, PM me in the game friday or saturday I can help you for a bit and give you a few good weapons and builds.Trust me we can kill ANYTHING thats not at the end of the game together.
(Try farming in Prophices and get some better staffs for Dunkuro and blades for Koss)
(Koss + MAX Gothic Blade + Sun&Moon Shield= Gladiator)
Theres a way to fix this besides your guild. Make better builds for your hero and always carry a monk with you. One more thing thier lvls do matter on thier armor value. Please don't quit GW, PM me in the game friday or saturday I can help you for a bit and give you a few good weapons and builds.Trust me we can kill ANYTHING thats not at the end of the game together.
(Try farming in Prophices and get some better staffs for Dunkuro and blades for Koss)
(Koss + MAX Gothic Blade + Sun&Moon Shield= Gladiator)
Personette
I have to say I agree with trust GW here. I like to PUG, I do it fairly often...I'd so much rather be in a group with a player who has a crappy skill bar but tries hard and isn't a pain to deal with than a really great player who has an attitude problem.
I have a lot of respect for skill, as a general rule, and I'm always glad to be with players who are better at the game than me - it's one way to learn things. But I don't need to have someone snapping at me every time I make a mistake, and I really, really dislike listening to a good player with a chip on his shoulder insult some other poor player who apparently isn't up to snuff.
Talent will only get you so far...in a game or in life in general. But talent is a dime a dozen and good social skills are priceless.
I have a lot of respect for skill, as a general rule, and I'm always glad to be with players who are better at the game than me - it's one way to learn things. But I don't need to have someone snapping at me every time I make a mistake, and I really, really dislike listening to a good player with a chip on his shoulder insult some other poor player who apparently isn't up to snuff.
Talent will only get you so far...in a game or in life in general. But talent is a dime a dozen and good social skills are priceless.
Ninna
Quote:
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Originally Posted by joukou
If I just want to finish a mission as fast as possible/Masters, I take heroes/hench.
When I actually wanna have fun, I go with PUGs. ... My best GW experiences come from PUGs, so yay for them!  |
trustgw
So I finally found a PUG group today and the person that started the group wanted a Good Monk. Having quite a bit of experience with Monking with PUGs I knew this would not be a problem. I have kept entire groups alive in the hardest missions and Solo'ed the hardest areas with my Invinci-Monk.
Well, we go out and in two hits he is down to like 20% of his health. I hit him with everything I had (including Divine active) and I get him back up, but then 3 more hits and he was dead. He then crys and does not understand how I could not keep him alive. He rants a little more then disconnects. I then easily keep the rest of the group alive. This guy is now going to complain how I suck because I could not keep his sorry butt alive.
Well, we go out and in two hits he is down to like 20% of his health. I hit him with everything I had (including Divine active) and I get him back up, but then 3 more hits and he was dead. He then crys and does not understand how I could not keep him alive. He rants a little more then disconnects. I then easily keep the rest of the group alive. This guy is now going to complain how I suck because I could not keep his sorry butt alive.
Dynas Helmsplitter
PUG is still alive. Still fairly easy to get PUG groups for alot of the Proph and Factions missions, and alot of the Nightfall missions also.
Personally, 2 of my biggest dislikes with the "Henchmen" were, well, just skills on the Ele and Necro. If they were henchmen that raised a few minions, or a henchmen that used Meteor Shower(Argo uses Meteor, but thats it).
Heroes, I believe, worked too good. I would think Heroes were originally designed to cover builds that the current henchmen didnt have, since they were pre-set to 1 particular, subpar build(it works, but, could be alot better). Heroes could be set to anything, need a SS/SV Necro for Shiro, cant find a PUG..Throw Olias or Masters in, Voila. But due to the sheer amount of customization enabled through heroes, it has made a huge impact on the Teamwork aspect. Gates of Madness is commonly done with PUGS since alot of people dont know what to do, but, I've successfully gotten Masters with 2 people, and 6 heroes.
Honestly, I think having a sub-panel for henchmen would have been more than adeqate. For instance.
Cynn(Fire Henchmen)
-Default Build
-Single target spam. IE Flare, Immolate, Mindburn, etc..
-AoE. Firestorm, Tenai's Heat, Meteor Shower, etc..
Or, Eve for example.
-Blood
-Curse
-Death, throw in a few minions and that would completely satisfied me.
But oh well, Heroes work, but too good IMO. Sure, some builds they act retarded with, but the same is for real people. Me and a Friend have CLEARED FoW with 6 heroes. Kind've sad that 8 real people rarely clear Wailing Lord, alot never make it to the to Shadow Tower...oh well.
LoL
Personally, 2 of my biggest dislikes with the "Henchmen" were, well, just skills on the Ele and Necro. If they were henchmen that raised a few minions, or a henchmen that used Meteor Shower(Argo uses Meteor, but thats it).
Heroes, I believe, worked too good. I would think Heroes were originally designed to cover builds that the current henchmen didnt have, since they were pre-set to 1 particular, subpar build(it works, but, could be alot better). Heroes could be set to anything, need a SS/SV Necro for Shiro, cant find a PUG..Throw Olias or Masters in, Voila. But due to the sheer amount of customization enabled through heroes, it has made a huge impact on the Teamwork aspect. Gates of Madness is commonly done with PUGS since alot of people dont know what to do, but, I've successfully gotten Masters with 2 people, and 6 heroes.
Honestly, I think having a sub-panel for henchmen would have been more than adeqate. For instance.
Cynn(Fire Henchmen)
-Default Build
-Single target spam. IE Flare, Immolate, Mindburn, etc..
-AoE. Firestorm, Tenai's Heat, Meteor Shower, etc..
Or, Eve for example.
-Blood
-Curse
-Death, throw in a few minions and that would completely satisfied me.
But oh well, Heroes work, but too good IMO. Sure, some builds they act retarded with, but the same is for real people. Me and a Friend have CLEARED FoW with 6 heroes. Kind've sad that 8 real people rarely clear Wailing Lord, alot never make it to the to Shadow Tower...oh well.
LoL
Amy Awien
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aeon221
How dare I demand that people whom I have invited into my group play with _at a minimum_ an optimized bar and some common sense! You're right, they have the right to waste my time with poor play! I should also give them my money and dance about naked, as they have the right to wealth and gratuitous nudity also!
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Everyone has a right to enjoy the game, including you and me and everyone we know. If that thought was in the back our minds more often, PuG's would be more fun.