Divine favor works under 3 conditions:
1) spells
2) effects only 1 (meaning heal party does not have a party wide bonus)
3) monk spells only
Necromancer SR works for ALL deaths.
You will always have deaths since the point of PvE is to KILL ENEMIES.
SR doesnt care what spells or skills or stances or whatever you use that energy on.
Deaths trigger on ALL Necromancers in the area. Its not divided up. Its not weakened by distance, etc.
Before elemental attunement was nerfed, a Necro COULD have made a better elementalist (although the mesmer was better because of fast cast, since dual attunement was enough to regain energy for Flareway, and didn't need to resort to SR).
==============
Seut: The customer is not always right.
[Dev Update] Soul Reaping and Mesmer Issues
lyra_song
Series
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Ernada
For crying out loud. Do we need yet another thread turned into an SR complaint thread?
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What you call complaining, others call expressing their opinion. That is the point of these forums. Is it really a surprise that a thread about soul reaping will have posts about soul reaping? There are hundreds of topics in these forums, 2 of which are about soul reaping. If you have no desire to hear people's opinions, then, well, leave? Nobody is forcing you here. If people are unhappy about the change, then yes, they will express it, and seeing how the other thread is the second most replied to thread in the riverside inn, beaten only by GW2 info, it looks like quite a lot of people are unhappy. Remember all those threads about complaining over 6 man HA? When people are unhappy, they express their concerns, and fixes are made.
boko
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
How the classes attack (and why mesmers are the least appreciated...):
Warriors: Through brute force and strength of muscle you are beaten into a pulp. Elementalists: The very forces of nature are brought down upon you. Rangers: Rain death from afar. Necromancers: Tap the dark forces and eat you from within. Monks: Summon the power of the gods to smite you down. Assassins: As fast as they arrive, they are gone. So are you. Dervishes: Whirling scythes and arcane might quickly dispatch foe upon foe. Ritualists: Summon the powers of the other side to do their bidding. Paragons: Spears at range tear you apart. Mesmers: Sip their latte while you kill yourself for them. |
The Ernada
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Series
Feel free to leave? Don't let the figurative door hit ya?
What you call complaining, others call expressing their opinion. That is the point of these forums. Is it really a surprise that a thread about soul reaping will have posts about soul reaping? There are hundreds of topics in these forums, 2 of which are about soul reaping. If you have no desire to hear people's opinions, then, well, leave? Nobody is forcing you here. If people are unhappy about the change, then yes, they will express it, and seeing how the other thread is the second most replied to thread in the riverside inn, beaten only by GW2 info, it looks like quite a lot of people are unhappy. Remember all those threads about complaining over 6 man HA? When people are unhappy, they express their concerns, and fixes are made. |
"OMG SR has been around for 2 years why nerf now!? ANET sux and doesnt know what they're doing!!!" type statements have no use to anyone at all. (hint: look at the post that I was replying to above my previous post)
Series
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Divine favor works under 3 conditions:
1) spells 2) effects only 1 (meaning heal party does not have a party wide bonus) 3) monk spells only Necromancer SR works for ALL deaths. You will always have deaths since the point of PvE is to KILL ENEMIES. SR doesnt care what spells or skills or stances or whatever you use that energy on. Deaths trigger on ALL Necromancers in the area. Its not divided up. Its not weakened by distance, etc. Before elemental attunement was nerfed, a Necro COULD have made a better elementalist (although the mesmer was better because of fast cast, since dual attunement was enough to regain energy for Flareway, and didn't need to resort to SR). ============== Seut: The customer is not always right. |
2. Which is why my example was for Orison of Healing, a spell that effects 1 person.
3. Yup.
Isn't the point of both PvE and PvP to kill things?
Why would a monk use things other than monk spells? Signet heavy build or something? Let's be realistic here, instead of throwing a bunch of "if my monk used a sword and firestorm, divine favor wouldn't help!" comments.
Neither is my Warrior or Monk examples. Is it really surprising that an effect has an effect on you? Er..... yeah.
Keyword: Before. And as you say yourself, Mesmers were superior in that condition anyway.
The customer is not always right. However, that does not mean the company always is, and that does not mean that any change that upsets customers should be simply disregarded. Without the customers, there would not be a Guild Wars and these people wouldn't be bringing home the bacon. It tends to be a good idea to listen to the customers, but hey, you can run your business however you want I suppose.
noocoo
Thanks for sharing the info
About the Soul reaping issue, Anet you guys spent almost two years to know that it is overpowered, and what were you doing in the past two years? two years....wow...
About the mesmer issue, we all know mesmer need more skill to play, and why does a dev update tell us this thing that everyone already knew that.
You still haven't tell us how you will improve the mesmer in pve yet, and I could say that you still don't know how to do, right?
Geez
About the Soul reaping issue, Anet you guys spent almost two years to know that it is overpowered, and what were you doing in the past two years? two years....wow...
About the mesmer issue, we all know mesmer need more skill to play, and why does a dev update tell us this thing that everyone already knew that.
You still haven't tell us how you will improve the mesmer in pve yet, and I could say that you still don't know how to do, right?
Geez
Series
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Ernada
Aww hit a sore spot did I? There's a difference between expressing your opinion with some useful discussion and the typical complaints that I see all the time.
"OMG SR has been around for 2 years why nerf now!? ANET sux and doesnt know what they're doing!!!" type statements have no use to anyone at all. |
I'm going to be mature and disregard your post, as statements like that have no use to anyone at all, as opposed to ruining the topic- ironically, what you think you are preventing with your posts.
seut
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Seut: The customer is not always right.
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If they don't apply a reasonable solution to this SR mess, they've lost a long time customer (i play since e34e).
cthulhu reborn
Before I make my point some basics.
-I play PvE only
-I have 12 characters of which 3 are necro's
-I have been playing for about 2 years.
Now, I was not happy initially with the nerf because necro was my fave and I didn't like them messing with it.
HOWEVER, I realised that what really irked me was NOT the loss of energy return which was more or less endless, BUT the fact that I couldn't plan my energy return as I can with other classes and skills.
So as a PvE'er I am saying I do not need SR to go back to what it was but to a system where I know exactly when my energy return is gonna be there during combat situations.
I am very glad that Anet has picked this up and are willing to do something about this aspect of the change and for the record, I do not need SS to cost 10 energy, it's an exploit waiting to happen. Also the other cost reductions are not needed for me. I just need to know what my energy is doing without the eggtimer.
Thanks much!
-I play PvE only
-I have 12 characters of which 3 are necro's
-I have been playing for about 2 years.
Now, I was not happy initially with the nerf because necro was my fave and I didn't like them messing with it.
HOWEVER, I realised that what really irked me was NOT the loss of energy return which was more or less endless, BUT the fact that I couldn't plan my energy return as I can with other classes and skills.
So as a PvE'er I am saying I do not need SR to go back to what it was but to a system where I know exactly when my energy return is gonna be there during combat situations.
I am very glad that Anet has picked this up and are willing to do something about this aspect of the change and for the record, I do not need SS to cost 10 energy, it's an exploit waiting to happen. Also the other cost reductions are not needed for me. I just need to know what my energy is doing without the eggtimer.
Thanks much!
explodemyheart
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Series
Feel free to leave? Don't let the figurative door hit ya?
What you call complaining, others call expressing their opinion. That is the point of these forums. Is it really a surprise that a thread about soul reaping will have posts about soul reaping? There are hundreds of topics in these forums, 2 of which are about soul reaping. If you have no desire to hear people's opinions, then, well, leave? Nobody is forcing you here. If people are unhappy about the change, then yes, they will express it, and seeing how the other thread is the second most replied to thread in the riverside inn, beaten only by GW2 info, it looks like quite a lot of people are unhappy. Remember all those threads about complaining over 6 man HA? When people are unhappy, they express their concerns, and fixes are made. |
You said yourself that the other SR thread is the second most replied thread currently active in riverside inn. That, coupled with this obvious acknowledgement of the issue, I'd say that "concern" is no longer needed. At least not until they do make a change, at which point there will be more "concern", of course. Feel free to continue to get worked up over the issue, though, of course.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Series
Why would a monk use things other than monk spells? Signet heavy build or something? Let's be realistic here, instead of throwing a bunch of "if my monk used a sword and firestorm, divine favor wouldn't help!" comments.
Neither is my Warrior or Monk examples. Is it really surprising that an effect has an effect on you? Er..... yeah. |
The pre-nerf SR Necromancer could spam high energy Monk skills better than a primary monk can because they regain energy at a much much faster rate.
I never put 10 energy spells on my Monk, only 5. My necro gets Heal party, heal area and healing breeze.
SR is not limited to Necro only skills. The necro can choose to Hex, MM or Heal.
Divine favor helps a monk with only 1 purpose, to heal damage.
Which is the better primary attribute?
Series
Quote:
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Originally Posted by explodemyheart
You might have a point if, at this point, it were necessary to express concern. Obviously the existence of this thread is proof enough that Anet knows that their current solution was not the best one, as they're exploring other avenues.
You said yourself that the other SR thread is the second most replied thread currently active in riverside inn. That, coupled with this obvious acknowledgement of the issue, I'd say that "concern" is no longer needed. At least not until they do make a change, at which point there will be more "concern", of course. Feel free to continue to get worked up over the issue, though, of course. |
The concern now is about her statement. After all, if everybody just stops talking, won't Anet get the impression that people no longer have a desire to see a fix to soul reaping? From what many people are getting from Gaile's post, Anet isn't quite sure how to tackle the soul reaping issue. Who knows, maybe the bright idea they jump on will be suggested by a "complainer"?
The Ernada
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn
HOWEVER, I realised that what really irked me was NOT the loss of energy return which was more or less endless, BUT the fact that I couldn't plan my energy return as I can with other classes and skills.
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But they sort of helped with the problem of planning energy returns with skills like Signet of Lost Souls. And things die in PVE often and consistantly enough for the current SR to still be very viable despite what naysayers are saying.
And to Series, I dont know why you were getting all worked up for anyway. My complainer statement wasnt even directed at you. But maybe it should since you're just fighting with everyone now.
Series
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
-.-
The pre-nerf SR Necromancer could spam high energy Monk skills better than a primary monk can because they regain energy at a much much faster rate. SR is not limited to Necro only skills. The necro can choose to Hex, MM or Heal. Divine favor helps a monk with only 1 purpose, to heal damage. Which is the better primary attribute? |
Do you really think things are black and white as you see it? Who said a primary attribute has to be "better"? As a monk, Divine Favor is better. As a Necro, SR is better. That isn't a very difficult concept to grasp, as the primary attributes were made with the profession in mind.
As you say, the SR is not limited to Necro only skills. The massive energy Monks save by getting more potent spells is not limited to be spent on only monk skills. For example, cast 2 orisons of healing with divine favor and you can say that you save 5 energy, as without the primary, you would have had to spend an extra 5 energy to bring the ally up the same amount of health. You can use that 5 energy on any spell or skill in the game, just as you can use death energy on any spell in the game.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Series
The concern now is about her statement. After all, if everybody just stops talking, won't Anet get the impression that people no longer have a desire to see a fix to soul reaping? From what many people are getting from Gaile's post, Anet isn't quite sure how to tackle the soul reaping issue. Who knows, maybe the bright idea they jump on will be suggested by a "complainer"?
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explodemyheart
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Series
Who's getting worked up?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Series
The concern now is about her statement. After all, if everybody just stops talking, won't Anet get the impression that people no longer have a desire to see a fix to soul reaping? From what many people are getting from Gaile's post, Anet isn't quite sure how to tackle the soul reaping issue. Who knows, maybe the bright idea they jump on will be suggested by a "complainer"?
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I'd say that a comment along the lines of, "Thank you for realizing your mistakes and trying to come up with a more viable solution, Anet. I very much look forward to it!" still shows that you obviously had concern for the issue, yet is far more constructive than "How come monks get free heals?
Obviously if divine favor is good for monk, soul reaping was good for necros!!!"If anybody has any new, brilliant ideas to fix the problem, they're free to share them. I, however, have not seen any new viable ideas for several days. There is a distinct difference between constructive comments and suggestions and outright complaining and producing ridiculous arguments. It's not my fault you can't tell the difference.
Series
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Ernada
And to Series, I dont know why you were getting all worked up for anyway. My complainer statement wasnt even directed at you. But maybe it should since you're just fighting with everyone now.
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And of course your complainer statement wasn't directed at me. But who cares? I'm sure you've replied to posts that haven't said "To: The Ernada" as the first sentance
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
How can someone contribute to any sort of part of solution to the problem if they refuse to acknowledge the problem?
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lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Series
As you say, the SR is not limited to Necro only skills. The massive energy Monks save by getting more potent spells is not limited to be spent on only monk skills. For example, cast 2 orisons of healing with divine favor and you can say that you save 5 energy, as without the primary, you would have had to spend an extra 5 energy to bring the ally up the same amount of health. You can use that 5 energy on any spell or skill in the game, just as you can use death energy on any spell in the game.
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Soul Reaping requires no skills in your skill bar, because it is a passive attribute, it gives the advantage of more space for skills.
Quote:
| Lyra, judging by your actions in the soul reaping thread I just skimmed through, it looks safe to say that you are just doin' a little trolling. I think I'm gonna ignore you now, as a flame war would ruin this topic. |
Its a legitimate question with a legitimate answer.
If you dont acknowledge that there is a problem, you cannot solve it.
If your car has a flat tire, and you refuse to acknowledge that there is a flat tire, how can you possibly contribute to a discussion about how to fix said flat tire.
------------------
Soul Reaping has a problem.
Pre-nerf: It was too strong
Post-nerf: Now its just clunky and doesnt address the issues of the nerf.
Series
Quote:
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Originally Posted by explodemyheart
I'd say it's you and several people in this thread, what with suggesting that necromancers should be shelved and the like. I'm quite amused, truth be told.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by explodemyheart
Your logic is flawless. Really. Except no...
I'd say that a comment along the lines of, "Thank you for realizing your mistakes and trying to come up with a more viable solution, Anet. I very much look forward to it!" still shows that you obviously had concern for the issue, yet is far more constructive than "How come monks get free heals? Obviously if divine favor is good for monk, soul reaping was good for necros!!!"If anybody has any new, brilliant ideas to fix the problem, they're free to share them. I, however, have not seen any new viable ideas for several days. There is a distinct difference between constructive comments and suggestions and outright complaining and producing ridiculous arguments. It's not my fault you can't tell the difference. |
Just because somebody isn't kissing Anet's rear end does not mean that they are being constructive, silly one. If you read any of my post, you would see that it was in fact very constructive, when taken in reference to the original post. Apparently, so constructive that all the little people jump on me for destroying their arguments for nerfing soul reaping
explodemyheart
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MSecorsky
How the classes attack (and why mesmers are the least appreciated...):
Warriors: Through brute force and strength of muscle you are beaten into a pulp. Elementalists: The very forces of nature are brought down upon you. Rangers: Rain death from afar. Necromancers: Tap the dark forces and eat you from within. Monks: Summon the power of the gods to smite you down. Assassins: As fast as they arrive, they are gone. So are you. Dervishes: Whirling scythes and arcane might quickly dispatch foe upon foe. Ritualists: Summon the powers of the other side to do their bidding. Paragons: Spears at range tear you apart. Mesmers: Sip their latte while you kill yourself for them. |
I love playing a mesmer though, in both PvP and PvE. I think it'll be great to have more options for PUGs to accept mesmers, though I'm a bit skeptical of how much it will really change anything.
The up side is that heroes and henchies don't complain that I'm not actually doing anything, and will gladly accept me into their parties.
catharsis
I don't suppose we could stop with the ridiculous straw-man arguments that go "OMG ANET Y U REALIZE NOW AFTER TWO YRS LOLOLOL!".
Two years ago, Soul Reaping had exactly zero skills linked to it, which meant that every point in SR was a point not being spent on an attribute that helped them do anything directly.
Two years ago, this was an entirely different game. It's entirely plausible that Soul Reaping has higher relative power in Nightfall-era GW than it did in Prophecies GW. Online games change. If you don't want to deal with change, there's always chess.
Two years ago, Soul Reaping had exactly zero skills linked to it, which meant that every point in SR was a point not being spent on an attribute that helped them do anything directly.
Two years ago, this was an entirely different game. It's entirely plausible that Soul Reaping has higher relative power in Nightfall-era GW than it did in Prophecies GW. Online games change. If you don't want to deal with change, there's always chess.
Series
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Soul Reaping has a problem.
Pre-nerf: It was too strong Post-nerf: Now its just clunky and doesnt address the issues of the nerf. |
The Ernada
Funny how he's nitpicking at unrelated topics and fighting with everyone and yet he's calling everyone a troll...
Anyway, ignoring that SR was indeed overpowered won't help "fix" anything (As Lyra already said) And using hyperbole also won't help anything (i.e. saying SR is now "useless)
I agree that the timer solution is clunky but SR still works. The proble is that SR was a flawed mechanic to begin with. A mechanic that the player can't control is very hard to balance. But with a little refining it can be done. Ensign's solution is still one of the best ones.
Anyway, ignoring that SR was indeed overpowered won't help "fix" anything (As Lyra already said) And using hyperbole also won't help anything (i.e. saying SR is now "useless)
I agree that the timer solution is clunky but SR still works. The proble is that SR was a flawed mechanic to begin with. A mechanic that the player can't control is very hard to balance. But with a little refining it can be done. Ensign's solution is still one of the best ones.
Series
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Ernada
Funny how he's nitpicking at unrelated topics and fighting with everyone and yet he's calling everyone a troll...
Anyway, ignoring that SR was indeed overpowered won't help "fix" anything (As Lyra already said) And using hyperbole also won't help anything (i.e. saying SR is now "useless) I agree that the timer solution is clunky but SR still works. The proble is that SR was a flawed mechanic to begin with. A mechanic that the player can't control is very hard to balance. But with a little refining it can be done. Ensign's solution is still one of the best ones. |
I hope that "ignoring" part wasn't directed at me, because if you read my post, I clearly said that builds such as MM were overpowered
And yes, ensign's solution is the best one and Anet should just use it already. Haven't seen anything wrong with it.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Series
Well if you agree that Post-nerf solution is bad, how about instead of trying to troll defending it you try... you know... contributing to the conversation?
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A lot of people seem to think there never was a problem.
This is what i am against.
I do not like the nerf because it is pathetically WEAK. It is also not very intuitive and still easy to exploit.
I posted up my idea for fixing Soul Reaping on page 54 of the soul reaping thread.
I subsequently reposted it 2 times. No one read it except maybe Lord Mendes. I've contributed to the conversation MANY times only to be ignored.
Thomas.knbk
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lord Mendes
P.S. Please don't make a bunch of new pre-nerf spiritual pain type skills, or if you do, make them PvE only.
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I think it would be quite uhm... inelegant to give the mesmer a ton of buffs because unskilled players and PuG's can't appreciate its current strength, because that is basically what she says.
kev doppleganger
hmm bout time mesmers got a break in pve imo so good news 
Macktar Wang
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Series
people say ignorant things, I tell them they are wrong. Not much of a fight.
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<insert Ensign's sig here>
UnforgivenIII
When I first started playing GW it was elementalist or nothing for me, and from that i learned energy management. Then, I made a necromancer and fell in love with the class. So..I guess I'm just wondering, am I the only Necro out there that didn't care when this nerf hit? 90% of my builds only had SR at 3 or lower anyways because i knew how to energy manage from my ele days. And they all still functioned fine, might not have been able to spam AS many skills at times, but usually those times were towards the end of a battle anyways when they weren't even needed. It was still all there when the going was tough and my curses or hexes or whathaveyou HAD to be there...Just adjust is what i say. There is no need to shelve your necros, they are still usable, and then When ANet finally "fixes" this, rejoice if you must
Series
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Macktar Wang
Oh, the irony...
<insert Ensign's sig here> |
sindex
Someone should come up with the title: The Mesmer Fix
I was about to complain about the whole “A-net listens to its community about skill changes,” but I though “nah.” After all half listening to us accounts for something.
Anyways it good to know that the mesmer PvE stuff is still in the works. Please, please, and more please, do not make the PvE skills for the mesmer only adept in getting them through a grinding method via a Title. I can understand getting them up to a certain point in the game, but the grind I could really do without.
I have to ask though are you going to make a tutorial for these new skills or enhancements? Actually would like a NPC that just gives the instructions and that’s it.
Edit: Oh yeah before I forget, Zinger was right about the Signet of Lost Souls which easily replaces what A-net did to Soul Reaping. Please use it. It really does help.
I was about to complain about the whole “A-net listens to its community about skill changes,” but I though “nah.” After all half listening to us accounts for something.
Anyways it good to know that the mesmer PvE stuff is still in the works. Please, please, and more please, do not make the PvE skills for the mesmer only adept in getting them through a grinding method via a Title. I can understand getting them up to a certain point in the game, but the grind I could really do without.
I have to ask though are you going to make a tutorial for these new skills or enhancements? Actually would like a NPC that just gives the instructions and that’s it.
Edit: Oh yeah before I forget, Zinger was right about the Signet of Lost Souls which easily replaces what A-net did to Soul Reaping. Please use it. It really does help.
Carinae
I think the entire discussion of SR being too powerful in PvE is a non-issue and a farce. Too powerful by what standard? Unbalanced by what stardard?
Too powerful in a co-operative, non-competitive environment versus monsters?
Too powerful that no-one played other classes?
Too powerful that they made PvE even easier?
What specifically is gained in PvE by the nerf?
Please stop chanting "Balance". There is NO BALANCE in PvE, it's a PvP-Only concept. There simply is no reason at all to nerf a class in PvE except when it is interfering with other classes. NONE.
You DEFINATELY don't nerf a class to make the overall game harder!!
EDIT: I'm not talking about skill-rebalances. I'm talking about major Mechanic changes.
Too powerful in a co-operative, non-competitive environment versus monsters?
Too powerful that no-one played other classes?
Too powerful that they made PvE even easier?
What specifically is gained in PvE by the nerf?
Please stop chanting "Balance". There is NO BALANCE in PvE, it's a PvP-Only concept. There simply is no reason at all to nerf a class in PvE except when it is interfering with other classes. NONE.
You DEFINATELY don't nerf a class to make the overall game harder!!
EDIT: I'm not talking about skill-rebalances. I'm talking about major Mechanic changes.
boko
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
The existing change does successfully place an upper limit on energy from Soul Reaping, but the designers are concerned that the five second rule is inelegant, being a little random in its effects when triggering Soul Reaping through quick kills. They are going to continue to investigate a better way to accomplish the same energy-related "reality check" while being a bit more lenient in how it is applied. If this is done, some of the recent energy cost changes to skills may be reverted.
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The timer was too drastic... Anet realised that and is listening and doing more test to actually come up with a more lenient solution... This is the best news you can hope for... I dun't see why many people are still complaining
noocoo
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Originally Posted by catharsis
I don't suppose we could stop with the ridiculous straw-man arguments that go "OMG ANET Y U REALIZE NOW AFTER TWO YRS LOLOLOL!".
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It's not a ridiculous straw-man argument.
It's a truth.
And I never complained about the soul reaping nerf. What I complained was that Anet was always doing the right things late.
For example, party search is a wonderful function for pve players, but why did Anet release it for 3 months after Nightfall release when almost players already completed the main mission line in Nightfall?
Another example, Ritualist and Assassin were both underpowered before, and Anet did not do anything. Before Nightfall just out, finally, there was a skill balance which buffed them a lot. Wasn't it too late? Apparently, these could be done earlier.
explodemyheart
Quote:
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Originally Posted by noocoo
It's not a ridiculous straw-man argument.
It's a truth. And I never complained about the soul reaping nerf. What I complained was that Anet was always doing the right things late. For example, party search is a wonderful function for pve players, but why did Anet release it for 3 months after Nightfall release when almost players already completed the main mission line in Nightfall? Another example, Ritualist and Assassin was underpowered before, and Anet did not do anything to them until Nightfall out. Wasn't it too late? Apparently, these could be done earlier. |
Tradition !=correct.
Tradition was slavery. People eventually decided that was a bad idea.
Tradition was not allowing women to vote. People eventually decided that was a bad idea.
Examples a bit extreme? Yeah, but it gets the point across. Just because a tradition is in place does not mean it is the correct way to be doing things. Arguing that because it was there for so long as a reason of why it should not be different now is false.
Arguing that things could have been done sooner is also a completely pointless argument in your favor.
Corinthian
Nothing's going to change with mesmers. What stops an e/me bringing an useful mesmer spell or two with them if they are boosted in the next expansion? Why would anyone need a primary mesmer in PvE? For casting faster???
ead7
I believe that most people believe AOE damage is what lacks in the mesmer class, but I think the real problem is that secondary mesmers replace regular mesmers
. Most of the skills for mesmers don't have to have high attributes to be good. In fact i think the secondary mesmer class in over used. You can see it in the Elementalist class, the monk class, the necromancer class, the ranger (Farmer and Spiker) class, warrior (Farmer) etc. The special attribute for mesmers (Fast Casting) is useless in pve. Fast casting is mostly used to interupt, and interupting skills like Power Block and Cry of Frustration won't be needed because not only is pve filled with melee, but npc's have an advantage when casting. If you use heroes they have a super ability to interupt peoples skills. As with enemy npc's they are completely unpredictable.
Soul reaping.... Once again we talk about this update and the major components when dealing with soul reaping. The issue with soul reaping is more and more people are using soul reaping for monking and for other skills instead of necromancer skills for which it was intended. This is probably the most difficult issue that has ever come across Gw. The side of PvE and the side of PvP. Both need soul reaping and updating one of them dramtically changes the other. I think the best way to solve this is to hit the nail right on the head. This means that you will have to reduce the amount of energy necromancers get from minions. But you will have to reduce it even below half. The solution for this in pve is to add some high energy skills that let you gain energy if one of your minions die. Or even a better idea is to add a skill that gives you energy whenever your minion hits with an attack. Thus it will cancel out minion factories in pvp and still make minion masters important in pve.
. Most of the skills for mesmers don't have to have high attributes to be good. In fact i think the secondary mesmer class in over used. You can see it in the Elementalist class, the monk class, the necromancer class, the ranger (Farmer and Spiker) class, warrior (Farmer) etc. The special attribute for mesmers (Fast Casting) is useless in pve. Fast casting is mostly used to interupt, and interupting skills like Power Block and Cry of Frustration won't be needed because not only is pve filled with melee, but npc's have an advantage when casting. If you use heroes they have a super ability to interupt peoples skills. As with enemy npc's they are completely unpredictable. Soul reaping.... Once again we talk about this update and the major components when dealing with soul reaping. The issue with soul reaping is more and more people are using soul reaping for monking and for other skills instead of necromancer skills for which it was intended. This is probably the most difficult issue that has ever come across Gw. The side of PvE and the side of PvP. Both need soul reaping and updating one of them dramtically changes the other. I think the best way to solve this is to hit the nail right on the head. This means that you will have to reduce the amount of energy necromancers get from minions. But you will have to reduce it even below half. The solution for this in pve is to add some high energy skills that let you gain energy if one of your minions die. Or even a better idea is to add a skill that gives you energy whenever your minion hits with an attack. Thus it will cancel out minion factories in pvp and still make minion masters important in pve.
boko
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Originally Posted by Corinthian
Nothing's going to change with mesmers. What stops an e/me bringing an useful mesmer spell or two with them if they are boosted in the next expansion? Why would anyone need a primary mesmer in PvE? For casting faster???
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Am perplex and curious about how they are going to make mesmer popular in PvE too ...haha
viper11025
I think we need a energy cap to fix this and limit the max energy a person gets from the dead at a time.
DrD
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Originally Posted by Keithark
Copied post from Daisuko...I think it is a very good post and something that dev's may not be taking into consideration with the SR nerf, thought I'd post it here in-case you miss it on the other thread:
That's exactly the point of being a Necromancer in the first place, for Endurance over an extended period of time... Mesmers are meant to shut down whatever they're designed to, they can do both, melee and casters. Also, there are MANY energy stealing mesmer skills, equip a few and you're good to go. Elementalist ALSO have good energy managment, as well as an energy ceiling higher than any other class can attain... Mesmers can string off more spells due to shortaned casting time, and elementalists can use more high-costing spells.. neither of them being death-dependant. Necromancers only get their energy if something does in fact die, if nothing's dying, they don't get energy, and their energy pool dwindles away. In PvE Deaths are usually not hard to attain, save for in high-level areas... and due to AI changes, mostly you must spike entire groups to death all at once, therefore you would only gain the energy from 1 death instead of all... Minion bombing, for one, (though I haven't tried since the update) would likely be highly ineffective, since the entire idea is to make multiple minions quickly, and then cause them all to explode at once, causing massive spike damage. However, now you will only gain enough energy from doing so to cast maybe 1 or 2 minion spells to attempt to re-build your army of bombs before you're defenseless. Furthermore, while Necrmancers are the only class who can "bank" their energy on mob deaths, that relies on a steady supply of deaths... There are many, MANY skills to gain energy. EVERY class has energy managment of some sort, And skills aside, Barrage, Triple chop/Cyclone axe or Hundred Blades, and all Scythe attacks can gain energy fairly quickly without any skills at all, merely using a zealous weapon. There are also Balthazar's spirit, and the mantras wich gain energy on hit... Heck, Greater conflagration combined with Storm chaser is the fastest method of energy gain I can think of. While Necromancers are the only ones relying on deaths for energy, they're really the only ones that NEED to rely on deaths for energy. For example... A ranger decides to be R/Mo, puts on essance bond and Balthazar's spirit, with a Zealous Bow. There will be no energy regeneration at all. Someone else in the party brings Greater Conflagration.... The ranger wears Pyrebound armor. Suddenly, you have a ranger who (with high enough expertise or targets) Is GAINING energy upon each barrage, and if anyone attacks said ranger, they gain 6 energy per attack as all attacks would be elemental. It would only take a very paltry amount of hits on that ranger to boost it's energy to maximum, and with expertise further reducing the cost of skills, Near-infinite energy is attained. Or perhaps any elementalist who runs E/Me Stone striker/Mantra of earth? What about warrior's endurance or Zealous Vow? Both of those give warriors or dervish extremely high energy gain. And as long as there are no skills to prevent critical hits, assassins can often gain 4 or 5 energy per critical hit, and have several skills available to ensure critical hits... So while Necromancers may very well be the only one counting on deaths, they're really the only one that needs to, since their primary attribute does just that, and all other classes have other, easier to attain methods of gaining energy. And lastly, (how many times have I said this so far?) Factions does not have ANY energy managment aside from soul reaping based in necromancer-only skills. Offering of blood and Consume corpse are Prophecies, and Signet of lost souls and Reaper's mark are both Nightfall. What does that leave those who only own factions? I'll tell you what, Nothing. Nothing but Soul reaping wich is far less reliable than it once was. |