Now that the insane title is done, I'd like to address the alleged grind issues of Guild Wars. I don't see where the grind is supposed to be. I never had to do any!
I started playing some time before Nightfall came out, and with about 850 hours played, I have 5 player characters, all with 15k armor, all with at least two campaigns under their belt (native + Factions, usually). It's not much by serious player standards, I'll grant, but it is the basic of luxury in this game.
I usually only play the game. I play with the whole party of heroes and henchmen, playving through an area, doing the quests, clearing the enemies, pick up and ID all the items and sell them to merchants. I usually get a reasonable amount of gold for selling those at the end of the day. Now, it may not be much. But by the time I get to the area where my players' desired elite armor is, I have enough gold to get most of the armor. Even if you get only about 1k per area per quest, that adds up over the course of the game. Add in the quest rewards (Prophecies -50 cesta @5000, NF minor vigor rune, quartermaster items @200, ...), and you are really getting quite a lot of gold. Just enough, by my estimate, for the 15K armor and a weapon.
I usually have to play some more to get the dyes, though. However, I have to point out that:
-in all this time I have not had any expensive drops that would be really sellable. I have had some black dyes, a white dye when they were still 15k,
-I have bought two minipigs at 20k for two friends when they were still expensive.
-I still haven't sold/used up all the quest rewards. I still have what, 2-3 Amulets of the mists, all but one Book of secrets, about 30 amber and jadeite unused.
The only instances of grinding I recognized were my first grind for jadeite shards with my warrior (that being an extra expensive armor) and yesterday's 10 hour legendary spearmarshall grind that had my brain dribbling out of my ears at the end of the day.
In the end, I would recommend to all people: just play the game. Help people across missions, finish the quests, and blimey, the money for the basics will come in fast enough. The only things that are really out of reach if you just casually play are the expensive skins and FoW armor.
GW Grind gripes get greatly overegsaggerated
Iuris
SotiCoto
Lightbringer Points.
Doesn't that say it all?
Perhaps I should elaborate in saying that anyone who wants any of the slightly more obscure PvE titles has to do a certain amount of grinding for them..... or else aquire the obscene amounts of cash required from alternative sources (like rare-item resale), and even then a certain level of grinding is involved.
If you're casual about it then you just wouldn't see any of that.
Then of course there is the Legendary Defender of Ascalon title.... but then nobody unwilling to grind would go near that with a barge pole (and I AM quite willing).
Doesn't that say it all?
Perhaps I should elaborate in saying that anyone who wants any of the slightly more obscure PvE titles has to do a certain amount of grinding for them..... or else aquire the obscene amounts of cash required from alternative sources (like rare-item resale), and even then a certain level of grinding is involved.
If you're casual about it then you just wouldn't see any of that.
Then of course there is the Legendary Defender of Ascalon title.... but then nobody unwilling to grind would go near that with a barge pole (and I AM quite willing).
cellardweller
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Originally Posted by Iuris
In the end, I would recommend to all people: just play the game. Help people across missions, finish the quests, and blimey, the money for the basics will come in fast enough. The only things that are really out of reach if you just casually play are the expensive skins and FoW armor.
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SotiCoto
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Originally Posted by cellardweller
Unless of course you want to play with more than just one skill bar throughout the game. If you have one of each primary and you want to get a resonable amount of skills, it costs an absolute fortune. Even if all you want is your primary skills + 20 secondary skills it would cost 3million gold!
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And let us not forget that the price doesn't START at 1000 per skill, but rather works its way up there.
cellardweller
Skill quests and price ramping have already been factored in.
SotiCoto
Have you factored in that given there are no titles connected to it, there are very few people who will want ALL skills for their primary class... 20 for their secondary is on the upper end of what would be wanted, but reasonable.
I suppose on the whole I'm certainly not disproving your point, but just implying that the magnitude isn't quite so extreme as you might suspect.
It is also worth noting for those of us who collect Elite Skills that the average Elite Skill capping session in an explorable area (or even missions) will often pay for itself... i.e. about 1k's worth of loot. The clear exception is those bosses near the outposts, multi-cap sessions and the like. It isn't 1 for 1... but I managed to cap something like 40 elite skills the other day with an initial 10k investment.
I suppose on the whole I'm certainly not disproving your point, but just implying that the magnitude isn't quite so extreme as you might suspect.
It is also worth noting for those of us who collect Elite Skills that the average Elite Skill capping session in an explorable area (or even missions) will often pay for itself... i.e. about 1k's worth of loot. The clear exception is those bosses near the outposts, multi-cap sessions and the like. It isn't 1 for 1... but I managed to cap something like 40 elite skills the other day with an initial 10k investment.
eightyfour-onesevenfive
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
Perhaps I should elaborate in saying that anyone who wants any of the slightly more obscure PvE titles has to do a certain amount of grinding for them.....
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Or to put it in other words: You can certainly find quite a lot of grind in the game if you want to, but only a very small ammount of grind is required.
Of course that always depends on the point of view.
cellardweller
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Originally Posted by eightyfour-onesevenfive
Same goes for the skills example. Having one character for each profession with a complete skill set in my eyes is a luxury.
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You'll get no argument from me on things like fancy armour or sugar rush titles, but skills are the basic element of guildwars game content - pve or pvp. If you have less skills, you have less to do in the game.
Iuris
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| Unless of course you want to play with more than just one skill bar throughout the game. If you have one of each primary and you want to get a resonable amount of skills, it costs an absolute fortune. Even if all you want is your primary skills + 20 secondary skills it would cost 3million gold! |
Answers in about a day, I hope.But who the heck would want to buy the whole skill set, anyway?
eightyfour-onesevenfive
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Originally Posted by cellardweller
I'd call it the absolute minimum required to play.
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For me the absolute minimum would be one character with most skills of his primary profession, not ten with all.
SotiCoto
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Originally Posted by eightyfour-onesevenfive
...and I see nothing wrong with that. If people want something out of the ordinary, they'll have to work for it. What's the point of special titles if one can get them without effort? Same goes for the skills example. Having one character for each profession with a complete skill set in my eyes is a luxury.
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... And tell me how many people you see there without titles.
And then perhaps tell me what else there is to achieve in the game besides titles and collecting "special" loot?
You'll notice that if you subtract anything that doesn't involve grind in some way, shape or form..... the game loses ALL replayability and draw-back value.
wynoski
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Originally Posted by cellardweller
Unless of course you want to play with more than just one skill bar throughout the game. If you have one of each primary and you want to get a resonable amount of skills, it costs an absolute fortune. Even if all you want is your primary skills + 20 secondary skills it would cost 3million gold!
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My characters that have finished one campaign are half way to their 15k armor...two campaings should do it for 15 k armor...Elite skins, FOW armor...meh...
You have to go after what YOU want not what anyone else wants...I don't like pets, I sell them...others love them and want a complete set...others collect greens, elite skins...these are all tangents that unless you are a dedicated player, you go after what you want...Me...I am an elite skill guy... Point is all these tangents require some Grinding...Like SotiCoto pointed out, when I skill cap, I stay in the area until I make the 1plat for the next sig...
Bryant Again
I like the grind. It's about the only thing that makes Guild Wars feel like a real MMORPG. There also isn't a whole lot of endgame content.
(I think I might've made a post earilier contradicting my view this...Just letting ya'll know.)
(I think I might've made a post earilier contradicting my view this...Just letting ya'll know.)
Torqual
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
You'll notice that if you subtract anything that doesn't involve grind in some way, shape or form..... the game loses ALL replayability and draw-back value.
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Grind for me would represent gameplay that is essentially unenjoyable in the pursuit of a larger objective - the sacrifice of enjoyment for achievement.
Rather like going to work.
Now, for me, I don't really find any grind in GW at all. This is because I enjoy every second of gameplay. Things like titles might give me some long-term goals that give reason to otherwise less-meaningful gameplay, but this is a good thing.
I used to ignore little side quests in places like the Jade Sea/Echovald Forest - and with no quests at all, why would anyone explore the South Shiverpeaks? But now I can go into somewhere like Silent Surf or Mineral Springs with maybe one quest to do but can also work on about 5 titles at the same time. I can clear the area out, map it, cap 1-2 elites, open the chests, ID the golds, and get extra satisfaction from doing these little things. Every now and then I get a threshold and get a happy few moments because I went up a rank in a title or other. Also, every time I go out on a new run I make it my business to take 1-2 skills I never used before. People complain about grinding for cash....I have loads and I make it just by playing the game!
Where is the harm in all this? SotiCoto you seem to think that the game should go on forever? Maybe some people would like to keep playing after they complete all three campaigns. Titles have been a great success - and if they are hard to achieve, this is good because you shouldn't get a title for doing nothing.
Titles are an optional extra that adds longevity to the game for people that enjoy every moment of playing it. They are not the main purpose of the game, which as far as I can see is to develop a character and complete the campaigns.
Brilliant OP by the way - it entirely encapsulates my view of the game.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Torqual
Not at all. It depends how you define grind.
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If you like to do it, it's not grind. All opinional. If it's grind to someone else, it's probably not grind to another.
Torqual
Also a good definition, and good viewpoint.
SotiCoto
If you're fiddling with the definition of a grind then essentially you could claim there is no grinding at all.... but I stick to a slightly different definition: Going through rote motions several times in order to achieve something.... and that is irrespective of what else I might try to splice inbetween to keep myself entertained.
I consider Alliance Battling to be a grind.... It is the same process in essence every single time: Fight Luxons, Capture Shrines, try to get to 500 points first. I do it to get Faction points and aim for the Friend of the Kurzicks title track... I don't do it for its own sake. I'd NEVER play AB (nor Fort Aspenwood) any more if it weren't for the title / Amber.
So what of other titles?
Grandmaster Cartographer isn't generally so much of a grind unless I miss spots.... though it is very long and near identical by process in every area, even if the area itself changes.
Protector... everyone has. Does involve some grinding sometimes in order to get Masters on a tough mission.... but that is it.
Treasure Hunter = Chest Grind.
Seeker of Wisdom = Gold Grind (typically with chests).
Skill Hunter = Similar to Grandmaster Cartographer: Same in process, different in location... though in Tyria it does involve a lot of grinding to get the right boss at a spawn-point.
Sweet-tooth = Sweet Grind (repetitive but not immensely time-consuming at least)
Drunkard = Alcohol Grind (definitely time-consuming unless the back-route is taken, and even then....)
Lucky / Unlucky = AFK ... on special events only. Nightmare to raise.
Skillz = Special event grind. Infrequent, and a total grind even when it does happen. I have nothing to do with it.
Survivor = Character grind... Nightmare.
Legendary Defender of Ascalon = 95% grind... though at least it is easy so I have the oppurtunity to enjoy the scenary rather than focusing all my attention on the numbers.
PvP Titles = 100% grind, and not even a necessarily predictable one... Primary reason I never touch on PvP aside from AB.
Aside from combination titles (and the Hard Mode titles that are equivalents of the Normal Mode ones)... what have I neglected to mention here?
They ALL contain some level of grind at least.... with the Protector ones having the least (and also being quickest and easiest to get).
I consider Alliance Battling to be a grind.... It is the same process in essence every single time: Fight Luxons, Capture Shrines, try to get to 500 points first. I do it to get Faction points and aim for the Friend of the Kurzicks title track... I don't do it for its own sake. I'd NEVER play AB (nor Fort Aspenwood) any more if it weren't for the title / Amber.
So what of other titles?
Grandmaster Cartographer isn't generally so much of a grind unless I miss spots.... though it is very long and near identical by process in every area, even if the area itself changes.
Protector... everyone has. Does involve some grinding sometimes in order to get Masters on a tough mission.... but that is it.
Treasure Hunter = Chest Grind.
Seeker of Wisdom = Gold Grind (typically with chests).
Skill Hunter = Similar to Grandmaster Cartographer: Same in process, different in location... though in Tyria it does involve a lot of grinding to get the right boss at a spawn-point.
Sweet-tooth = Sweet Grind (repetitive but not immensely time-consuming at least)
Drunkard = Alcohol Grind (definitely time-consuming unless the back-route is taken, and even then....)
Lucky / Unlucky = AFK ... on special events only. Nightmare to raise.
Skillz = Special event grind. Infrequent, and a total grind even when it does happen. I have nothing to do with it.
Survivor = Character grind... Nightmare.
Legendary Defender of Ascalon = 95% grind... though at least it is easy so I have the oppurtunity to enjoy the scenary rather than focusing all my attention on the numbers.
PvP Titles = 100% grind, and not even a necessarily predictable one... Primary reason I never touch on PvP aside from AB.
Aside from combination titles (and the Hard Mode titles that are equivalents of the Normal Mode ones)... what have I neglected to mention here?
They ALL contain some level of grind at least.... with the Protector ones having the least (and also being quickest and easiest to get).
Torqual
SotiCoto I am losing the will to live reading your posts! Do you still play Guild Wars? If so, I'd love to know why.
Sounds like time for a new game in your case. Nothing is played forever.
The rest of us seem quite happy BTW.
Sounds like time for a new game in your case. Nothing is played forever.
The rest of us seem quite happy BTW.
eightyfour-onesevenfive
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
Reality check: Go to somewhere like.... for instance... Hell's Precipice...
... And tell me how many people you see there without titles. And then perhaps tell me what else there is to achieve in the game besides titles and collecting "special" loot? You'll notice that if you subtract anything that doesn't involve grind in some way, shape or form..... the game loses ALL replayability and draw-back value. |
Well, what do you expect? Replayability without repetition? How is that supposed to work? You're right, everything that goes beyond finishing the game storyline can be considered "grind". I still fail to see how this is a bad thing.
Orbberius
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
If you're fiddling with the definition of a grind then essentially you could claim there is no grinding at all.... but I stick to a slightly different definition: Going through rote motions several times in order to achieve something.... and that is irrespective of what else I might try to splice inbetween to keep myself entertained.
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SotiCoto
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Originally Posted by Torqual
SotiCoto I am losing the will to live reading your posts! Do you still play Guild Wars? If so, I'd love to know why.
Sounds like time for a new game in your case. Nothing is played forever. The rest of us seem quite happy BTW. |
I still play it because I'm a stubborn bastard who doesn't know when to quit.
I'm a socially inept bastard who out of necessity relies on heroes and henchies to do almost everything in-game (thus making it single-player) and I am determined, having paid the money to get the game and the expansions in the first place, to get my money's worth out of it no matter how long it takes me.
I almost regret ever buying it in the first place. I was somewhat content when the height of my online gaming experience was Phantasy Star Online (which I actually pwned at, miraculously enough).... but I felt that I needed to at least try Guild Wars...
Well now I'm in there and fighting my way through it out of pure determination not to be beaten... and complaining every time I have just about reached my goal and then a whole load of harder crap gets added to the game, forcing me essentially back to stage 1. I feel like A-Net are dangling any sense of achievement I could get from this game just outside my reach like a carrot on a stick.
[And for the record... I'm also a cheap bastard... as I chose Guild Wars rather than any other online RPG because of the lack of fees. I've since come to appreciate its instanced nature (much like PSO was) and ability to let me play single-player to at least some extent. While any other MMORPG would consist primarily of grind and be within my reach in that respect, I would have to learn to solo the entire thing and pay for it besides, which would just lead to stress...]
semantic
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Originally Posted by SotiCoto
Reality check: Go to somewhere like.... for instance... Hell's Precipice...
... And tell me how many people you see there without titles. And then perhaps tell me what else there is to achieve in the game besides titles and collecting "special" loot? You'll notice that if you subtract anything that doesn't involve grind in some way, shape or form..... the game loses ALL replayability and draw-back value. |
At some point, someone decided it would be a good idea to run from Beacon's Perch to Camp Rankor all in one go. Armor was the primary motivation, but I'm sure once they started working on it, just getting there was probably pretty satisfying. Most solo tactics started the same way, I'm sure.
Taken in that light, the replay value of this game is immense. But it's true that the game doesn't dictate a hard, linear progression of goals that stretch out to infinity, or even to a set maximum.
cellardweller
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Originally Posted by wynoski
but you don't need EVERY single skill for your primary...its nice, but I have never needed poisoned heart, envenom ehchants, and some other anti Paragons skills...I run different builds, I have about 20 for my necro to include gimmick builds like the contagion N/D build. My other toons all have headpieces with sup runes for all attributes.
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| You have to go after what YOU want not what anyone else wants...I don't like pets, I sell them...others love them and want a complete set...others collect greens, elite skins...these are all tangents that unless you are a dedicated player, you go after what you want...Me...I am an elite skill guy... Point is all these tangents require some Grinding...Like SotiCoto pointed out, when I skill cap, I stay in the area until I make the 1plat for the next sig... |
1) Basic Equipment - mostly there with collectors stuff. Still missing collectors upgrades
2) Progressing the story line - Kurzick/Luxon/Sunspear requirements let GW down in this category.
3) Skills - GW is terrible here. Without mindless farming, there's no way to get the gold and skillpoints required to buy them. Tomes haven't been around for long, but I can only hope that they increase the drop rate now that they have prevented farming.
Takeko Nakano
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Originally Posted by Torqual
The rest of us seem quite happy BTW.
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Torqual
Why though?
There are two possible answers to this, either:
- If you don't like the idea of Hard Mode, don't play it. It wasn't there a week ago, and if you like you can pretend it's not here now. Its existence doesn't impact the Normal Mode game
or
- Maybe you were expecting something different from Hard Mode, and it has disappointed you. If so, what has disappointed you? What else were you expecting it to be? (and please don't say "easier")
There are two possible answers to this, either:
- If you don't like the idea of Hard Mode, don't play it. It wasn't there a week ago, and if you like you can pretend it's not here now. Its existence doesn't impact the Normal Mode game
or
- Maybe you were expecting something different from Hard Mode, and it has disappointed you. If so, what has disappointed you? What else were you expecting it to be? (and please don't say "easier")
Kakumei
Regardless, grind is pretty subjective, but compared to other games of this nature it's pretty minimal (except for maybe rank???)
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Added by Moderator: Off-topic comment removed. Check out this if you're interested in the answer though.
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Added by Moderator: Off-topic comment removed. Check out this if you're interested in the answer though.
Iuris
BTW, I kind of like Hard mode.
It's feel it's just a little bit too hard for me so far, but I think I could learn to do it right. My mesmer liked clearing Dejarin estates the other day, though. Finally felt useful.
Apart from that, however, I hope hard mode doesn't start a whole horde of elitism, all about "Hard mode is easy. What, you still play normal? That's for kids!".
It's feel it's just a little bit too hard for me so far, but I think I could learn to do it right. My mesmer liked clearing Dejarin estates the other day, though. Finally felt useful.
Apart from that, however, I hope hard mode doesn't start a whole horde of elitism, all about "Hard mode is easy. What, you still play normal? That's for kids!".
EternalTempest
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Originally Posted by cellardweller
Unless of course you want to play with more than just one skill bar throughout the game. If you have one of each primary and you want to get a resonable amount of skills, it costs an absolute fortune. Even if all you want is your primary skills + 20 secondary skills it would cost 3million gold!
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This also holds true when you bring your character over to a new campaign, the rewards from the new campaign more then pay for the skills if you do the quests / missions.
It's when you divert the money to extravagant things you may be short. Now once you have a character that's gone through the game, it tends to generate excessive money that can be used to speed develop new characters - go after the extravagant things with ease.
I get my primary skills for each character (don't farm either) easily.
Side Note: I love hard mode - I fine it really challenging. It's caused me to evolve my builds, become a better player, and think differently. I also view HM as "optional" part of the game. And I do love the drops (I see an increase).
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by semantic
If you expect the game to set your goals for you, then the replay value will seem limited. They've created a bunch of goals that are parallel to core gameplay, and some people find it fun to try and achieve them. But there is a lot of room for totally invented goals that have nothing to do with titles or the core game.
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If there were no title at all, you would still have people who would unfog whole map, finish every single bonus, have survivor characters, etc ...
This kind of achievents is way more precious ... you can clearly see that those people had fun doing what they were doing.
so, stop caring about titles that are not fun for you to achieve and have your own goals ... they might not come with neat progress bar and title ... but again, this game is not progressquest.
For example, mine goal is to have battleready character of each profession (= every outpost unlocked, all the skills for primary profession, headpiece and weapons set for each attribute, all complementary secondary skills, all secondaries unlocked, basically you name class, build and locating and i will be there ...) There will be never title for that, but that does not stop me from doing it.
SotiCoto
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Originally Posted by semantic
If you expect the game to set your goals for you, then the replay value will seem limited. They've created a bunch of goals that are parallel to core gameplay, and some people find it fun to try and achieve them. But there is a lot of room for totally invented goals that have nothing to do with titles or the core game.
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Oddly enough, I'd do the Grandmaster Cartographer thing even if there weren't titles for it as I am near-rabid in my insistance on wiping out Fog-of-War in any game.
But that is about it.
I'm not fond of trying to be creative with my goals in a world where the reach of my creativity is necessarily limited. I leave that for games like Morrowind where I can edit it to my heart's content.
Admittedly though since I downloaded that Unreal kill-sounds mod I keep aiming rather ridiculously for the highest chain kill sound I can get sometimes, which interferes severely with my in-game behaviour.
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Originally Posted by Torqual
- Maybe you were expecting something different from Hard Mode, and it has disappointed you. If so, what has disappointed you? What else were you expecting it to be? (and please don't say "easier")
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Andisa Kalorn
I don't know why people talk about grind as if it's something objective.
I've heard people complain about solo farming as a grind, and doing all the sidequests on all characters as a grind. Those are some of my favourite things to do in this game. As for hard mode, I like trying to vanquish areas (and will persist until I get horribly frustrated). But I can't stand the idea of doing the missions, for the 11th+ time, and trying to get masters, again, just because the monsters are tougher. I used to find farming sunspear/lightbringer points annoying but i'm currently enjoying repeatedly vanquishing the shattered ravines for some reason.
The point is, one person's grind is another person's fun. I hear people talk about other games and call them a worse grind - but people still play them, perhaps because they don't consider it a grind.
The best thing about GW is that no percieved "grind" is necessary. Even faction and sunspear points... if you do the quests and take the bounties, you never have to farm specifically for them. No one is making you do hard mode or farm lb points or whatever.
My only problem is that most titles are character specific. I know that it makes sense but... I have a lot of characters that I like equally.
Makes it hard to decide who should get what title. (oh and I don't like it that lockpicks are more retainable with treasure and lucky titles... helping the rich get richer).
As for 15k armor: I've made more than enough money on each character going through nightfall to buy their own sets of 15k. And that was before the treasure chests. No farming required.
I've heard people complain about solo farming as a grind, and doing all the sidequests on all characters as a grind. Those are some of my favourite things to do in this game. As for hard mode, I like trying to vanquish areas (and will persist until I get horribly frustrated). But I can't stand the idea of doing the missions, for the 11th+ time, and trying to get masters, again, just because the monsters are tougher. I used to find farming sunspear/lightbringer points annoying but i'm currently enjoying repeatedly vanquishing the shattered ravines for some reason.
The point is, one person's grind is another person's fun. I hear people talk about other games and call them a worse grind - but people still play them, perhaps because they don't consider it a grind.
The best thing about GW is that no percieved "grind" is necessary. Even faction and sunspear points... if you do the quests and take the bounties, you never have to farm specifically for them. No one is making you do hard mode or farm lb points or whatever.
My only problem is that most titles are character specific. I know that it makes sense but... I have a lot of characters that I like equally.
Makes it hard to decide who should get what title. (oh and I don't like it that lockpicks are more retainable with treasure and lucky titles... helping the rich get richer).As for 15k armor: I've made more than enough money on each character going through nightfall to buy their own sets of 15k. And that was before the treasure chests. No farming required.
Nekretaal
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Originally Posted by Iuris
Now that the insane title is done, I'd like to address the alleged grind issues of Guild Wars. I don't see where the grind is supposed to be. I never had to do any!.
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Lets say your ranger beats nightfall and wants to do DoA. However, rangers are not allowed in DoA... so you have to restart as an elementalist, and re-do 26 missions that you already beat, skill cap the rare skills that you needs, farm yourself armor equipment and skills, farm yourself a sunsepear title just to get passed locked gates, farm yourself a decent lightbringer title, and then, only then, are you allowed to play in the area that you already had access to, but werent allowed to play in.
Anet's answer to lack of balance in PvE (some professions do not have useful skillsets to even bother atempting certain areas & have nothing to add to a group) essentially boils down to: "go buy an extra character slot and deal with it."
In this way, true grind form, you end up slogging through low level mobs you beat several times just to experience the game.
Draxanoth
I agree with the fact hard mode was a cop out. All they did was allow the mobs to go outside the realm of balance and force us to rely on hinges like we did in DoA.
Sorrow's Furnace is a perfect example of how to make an area challenging enough to require well oiled groups without allowing the opposing force to cheat their ass off. Making hard mode require hours upon hours to vanquish a single area (snakedance comes to mind) as a result of innate abilities the mobs have, was unnecessary.
Now that they've removed the simple and mundane ways of acquiring loot, IE going out and sucking in 50 whites and selling them for a couple grand, you are pretty much forced to do vanquishing, or invest in items to farm UW, or hunt greens for hours on end. Some of us play this game because we don't have to live inside it. If you have to spend 3 hours straight getting your hands on a green item to fund 10 skills, you lose that legendary aspect of GW. Now with the options for how to make gold dwindling, the drops will decrease, the number of such items will increase, value will go down, and the set prices for armor, skills, etc, will not.
You don't have to play Hard Mode if you think it's lame, but they're dragging the ways to make money out of the game, leaving you with just the time intensive and boring methods.
Sorrow's Furnace is a perfect example of how to make an area challenging enough to require well oiled groups without allowing the opposing force to cheat their ass off. Making hard mode require hours upon hours to vanquish a single area (snakedance comes to mind) as a result of innate abilities the mobs have, was unnecessary.
Now that they've removed the simple and mundane ways of acquiring loot, IE going out and sucking in 50 whites and selling them for a couple grand, you are pretty much forced to do vanquishing, or invest in items to farm UW, or hunt greens for hours on end. Some of us play this game because we don't have to live inside it. If you have to spend 3 hours straight getting your hands on a green item to fund 10 skills, you lose that legendary aspect of GW. Now with the options for how to make gold dwindling, the drops will decrease, the number of such items will increase, value will go down, and the set prices for armor, skills, etc, will not.
You don't have to play Hard Mode if you think it's lame, but they're dragging the ways to make money out of the game, leaving you with just the time intensive and boring methods.
Enko
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Iuris
Hehe, I'll take that as a challenge. It's about time to make an inventory, anyway
Answers in about a day, I hope.But who the heck would want to buy the whole skill set, anyway? |
On my PvE ele I have:
55 NEcro
66 Ranger
73 Warrior
61 Ritualist
255 Total
skills left to go.
I have 77.5% of the skills in the game available.
Already got everything unlocked for PvP.
I play a lot but I don't call it grind because the game isn't making me do stuff to accomplish what I want. All of my goals in the game are goals I set for myself not something the game requires.
iifa
ppl who likes to grind should just play other games...
and it's not a need to get all the skills..... the trick is to use what you have and beat the ----- out of the other player..
and it's not a need to get all the skills..... the trick is to use what you have and beat the ----- out of the other player..
Darksun
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Draxanoth
You don't have to play Hard Mode if you think it's lame, but they're dragging the ways to make money out of the game, leaving you with just the time intensive and boring methods.
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Marth Reynolds
It's one of the features from guildwars IMO, you get to choose wich grind you want to do or not to grind at all.
You don't need all skills, but i know a lot of people including myself who try to give pve characters all of the skills of their class.
For me the most boring grinds is completing chapters you already did before just to get those skill caps you want.
There are still enough of these grinds to involve yourself in after you completed a chapters storyline, wether you'd want to try them is a different story.
So in answer i'd say it's not overrated, but it's a choice to grind for certain aspects.
You don't need all skills, but i know a lot of people including myself who try to give pve characters all of the skills of their class.
For me the most boring grinds is completing chapters you already did before just to get those skill caps you want.
There are still enough of these grinds to involve yourself in after you completed a chapters storyline, wether you'd want to try them is a different story.
So in answer i'd say it's not overrated, but it's a choice to grind for certain aspects.
Buster
I have no issues with grinding out titles and things that I want to achieve. It is fun, it makes the game last longer and more enjoyable for me. It seems some people want to finish the game in a week without putting a tad bit of effort into the game. If things were too easy to obtain then there would be nothing left for any of us to do. Its just my opinion but that is how i look at it.
pctech65
Grind aye?
Well I was grinding away at the Lightbringer title by doing LB runs in depths of madness, then suddenly in all their wisdom(gonna make normal easier?) Anet descided to change the spawns drastically in this area. ALL the Shadow groups now have Elementals in them which were not there before. Minions + Ele Damage = no minions. I had gotten to lvl 7 of my LB title out here by developing a pattern to follow, but I guess that was wrong. Seems that no matter what I try to do in my little niche of the game, anet has to nerf or otherwise screw it up for me. Just like they were supposed to open up the sunspear title track, yea well nothing was said about Hard Mode being the only way you can do it. Seems to me that the casual player who has been faithfull to GW all this time since the release of Prophecies has gotten nothing but shafted at every turn. Seems as though they dont want us average players even playing the game.
I have always conscidered myself to be an average player. Example if doing an mission or area that takes 3+ hours to complete is fine with you.... then you are NOT an average player. I think that any mission or area that takes much over an hour to complete is simply uncalled for. That is for those so-called elite players out there. But anet has heard a handful of these said elite players complain that things were too easy, so they have taken it to be an insult to their programming capabilities and descided to make Hard Mode.
Which would be fine if I could complete my titles in normal. The lightbringer and sunspear titles were never slated to be only completeable in HM so what gives?
I have this opinion that keeps nagging at me; if a title is made for normal mode then it should be able to be completed in normal mode.
Well I was grinding away at the Lightbringer title by doing LB runs in depths of madness, then suddenly in all their wisdom(gonna make normal easier?) Anet descided to change the spawns drastically in this area. ALL the Shadow groups now have Elementals in them which were not there before. Minions + Ele Damage = no minions. I had gotten to lvl 7 of my LB title out here by developing a pattern to follow, but I guess that was wrong. Seems that no matter what I try to do in my little niche of the game, anet has to nerf or otherwise screw it up for me. Just like they were supposed to open up the sunspear title track, yea well nothing was said about Hard Mode being the only way you can do it. Seems to me that the casual player who has been faithfull to GW all this time since the release of Prophecies has gotten nothing but shafted at every turn. Seems as though they dont want us average players even playing the game.
I have always conscidered myself to be an average player. Example if doing an mission or area that takes 3+ hours to complete is fine with you.... then you are NOT an average player. I think that any mission or area that takes much over an hour to complete is simply uncalled for. That is for those so-called elite players out there. But anet has heard a handful of these said elite players complain that things were too easy, so they have taken it to be an insult to their programming capabilities and descided to make Hard Mode.
Which would be fine if I could complete my titles in normal. The lightbringer and sunspear titles were never slated to be only completeable in HM so what gives?
I have this opinion that keeps nagging at me; if a title is made for normal mode then it should be able to be completed in normal mode.
TabascoSauce
I'm thinking they got it all backwards. The people who are the most successful players will be going to hard mode, and the more regular players (like me of course) who do not have the time, patience, wherewithal, whatever are staying in mostly normal mode.
Uh, the successful hard mode players are not the ones who need the skill tome drops.
Or the extra dinero. It's us regular players who need that stuff more than the hardcore.
Just a thought.
Thanks!
TabascoSauce
Uh, the successful hard mode players are not the ones who need the skill tome drops.
Or the extra dinero. It's us regular players who need that stuff more than the hardcore.Just a thought.
Thanks!
TabascoSauce