Make HARD MODE only do-able if you have protector for that campaign, and unique to u.

At the moment, hard mode is accessible as such (from wiki)..

"To access hard mode, a player must first complete the final mission of a campaign normally. As long as one character on an account has completed a campaign, all level 20 characters on that account will gain access to hard mode for that campaign."

..I think thats slightly flawed.

Hard Mode (by my understanding) is for the experienced players who have earned the right to play it. They have earned that right by completing that campaign to its full insensity.

I.E - All primary and secondary missions and/or masters = "Protector of...."

But the current system lets any of your level 20 characters play a campaign in hard mode aslong as atleast one of your characters has completed the last mission.

Your not required to have attained Protector for that campaign. Your not even required to have played one single mission in that campaign.

The result is, you cant quarantee that all players asking for HM actually know or understand the campaign at all.

But shouldnt a player who is doing HM, understand that campaign inside and out? Shouldnt HM offer a quarantee that your playing with experienced players?

Example....

You could have a situation where a player completes prophercies with an elemental and unlocks HM in Tyria. He then creates a cantha warrior, levels it to 20 and brings it to Tyria.

That lvl20 warrior has full access to HM in prophercies, but has no experience of playing the missions.

You add that warrior to your team, under the impresson hes experienced at that campaign and wont require instructions or help or baby-sitting.

You get into the mission and the entire thing goes heads-up because of a novice player, trying to do something that is too hard for them.

Now certain HM missions in Tyria are easy, but others are really hard. If your having trouble doing it, the last thing you need is a complete Novice joining the team.

Open to risks...

You also have the risk of people purely lvling their characters to 20, and trying to do HM purely to farm better items. Even if they dont know that campaign and with no real interest in completing it, and playing badly.

I request that Anet make accessing Hard Mode require that you have "Protector of...." for that campaign, and that it be unique to that character.

At the minute, its open to abuse and novice players who shouldnt be doing it. It also means we have no quarantee about the experience of players in the team, when realistically we should. Hard Mode should give some guarantee of experience in the campaign.

I know some players will say "But thats restricting to those who dont want to grind to get HM." My response is...

..tough. Hard Mode is something you should have to work for. Not something thats given out like candy. Plus how is completing attainting protector grinding? If your too lazey to get protector, then I wouldnt want you in my team.

Um, how the hell do you complete a campaign without playing any missions? I'm missing that part...

Yeah and make it so that your guild has to be in top 100 and you must have at least 10 000 000 Kurzick/Luxon faction and you must pay 1000 balth or one plat to enter each area and... sheesh. Did you get a bad PUG or something?

Horrible idea.

Would rage quit Guild Wars if it happened.

Wont be implemented.

It isn't like there is an abundance of people sitting there to do each mish.

Take what you can get.

Or go with guildies so you don't have to fear someone who may not be as "uberleet" as you.

/unsigned, but it doesn't matter. Wont be implemented.

/not signed

Do you honesly think people would vote yes to this. What your asking would never happen, it requies to much grind and no one would ever vote this in. Your hilarious.

Hahah yeah. /signed
One time I was trying to do Aurora Glade mission and bonus on hard-mode; after explaining the tactic right before the crystal-running part one of the Monks decides to go his own way and says he's going to search for the Demagogue (what the hell?).
We could've made it if he just had done that mission and bonus in normal mode and knew he only had to help defending one of the crystal pedestals.=\

/not signed,
i agree with dome and series, to much grind, and very little point, if you get a bad pug and fail the mission, remember who they where and get a new group,

'but that will waste time!'

so? if you have enough time to write an essay on why HM should only be for protectors, then you have enough time to do the mission twice

Did you not read the quote from guildwiki? At lvl20 you can do HM on any campaign, that a previous character has completed. You could take a lvl20 char over from elona to cantha, who has done no canthan missions and start doing HM.

Thats how.

When Did I say I was "uberleet".

The only words I used were "experienced" and "knowledgeable" and "novice"! Thats not thinking im l33t, thats expecting people to understand the missions before they do HM.

I avoided even using the word noob or newbie for a reason. I dont like them.

I'm sorry, what? How lazey can you get. How is being asked to attain protector for a campaign grinding?

Im not requesting people go out and farm 100k, achieve 1million Kuzack points, or kill 1million creatures to enter hard mode.

I'm requesting people attain Protector! Is that really too much to ask? I must be on a different planet where protector is something most people try to attain, something people take pride in.

Protector isnt something pointless and meaingless. Its a sign that you have pushed yourself the best you can in a campaign.

I honestly cant believe there are players who think getting protector is a waste of time. Do you have no pride in your PvE that you dont feel satisfied until you've complete a mission the best you can?

Sorry but its people like you, who are too lazey to get Protector who I wouldnt want playing HM. If your too lazey to get primary and secondary and master in normal mode, then why bother playing Hard Mode?

And you dont have enough time to get protector?

TopicStarter:
What you apparently fail to comprehend is that knowledge of the missions and campaign is tied to players not characters(sp?) If your example "newb wammo" has completed tyria with his ele, then he is not without experience of the missions is he? the knowledge carries through with the player not the character

/NOT SIGNED

Getting people to play in hard mode is difficult as hell. Setting up a group itself is a mission. One thing for sure will happen.....no one will be able to complete Vizunah Square in hard mode. 16 Protectors of Cantha available at the same time???

Sorry, I don't do weed.

- Vel

Making the game more accessable is a good thing.

Allowing players to have more characters and play choices with less mission grind is a good thing.

/not signed

It isnt just their experience of doing that campaign which they might not have. Its the experience of doing that campaign using that profession, or just using that profession full-stop.

Using the warrior example I said -

A player takes his canthan warrior to Tyria at level 20. He rushed it to level 20 in factions (as you do) and then takes it Tyria with little experience of the profession.

He also has no experience against Tyrian creatures as a warrior because he hasnt fought them before as one.

Yet hes allowed into HM, and allowed to join a PUG that expects experience with that profession, aswell as experience in the campaign.

I really dont see how requiring protector from a character before they can do HM is so much to ask. Its hardly hard work to get.

I'm not asking the impossible.

All my characters are "Protector of....[which ever campaign their in]"! Its not exactly hard. I dont see the issue. If your the kind of person to run off 16 characters at one time, then you just need to pick a favourite and work on them.

/notsigned as it adds to elitism.

heres how i would fix it. I do agree with some (SOME) of your point that someone new to playing a war (or any other proff) could get power leveled or play a canthan char not not quite know what they are doing. So heres the solution. Do not make it based on account make it based on character. To a point I agree that inexperienced players will make a PUG harder than it should be. But to penalized players for not getting protector is a bad idea. I have beaten all three games, and have protector in only one. Why? because I wished to beat the game and would take what group i could get or i would hero hench them. But i know the missions i know the game. Why should i or any other player who didnt feel like beating the mission in a set amout of time was all the important get the boot in hard mode?

~the rat~

If a player creates a character for one campaign, say a ranger, and completes every single mission. Then decides to create a monk from a different chapter to go back and play HM from the prevous chapter, how would they not know the missions. The player plays the toon, the toon does not play himself. The player had to complete the campaign to gain access to hard mode, just because the player is using a different toon from another campaign, doesn't mean the player suddenty loses all knowledge on how the play the campaign that hard mode was unlocked for.

I will admit some players just get themselves power leveled and really don't know how to play the new profession, but most don't. Besides your suggestion was put forth before, but shot down because hard mode is for everyone. Not select players, and not everyone cares about the protector title, I don't have it for anyone of my toons, but have completed every single campaign with multible toons, what you are saying would prevent me from playing hard mode because of a title. That's a little unfair isn't it?

/not signed

/notsigned
Less PvE QQ plz?
Just invite only people who have the title if you have to, sjeesh.

from the system alreay implemented its clear this isn't the case, just because you think it should be something to work this hard for, doesn't mean others, including anet do.

/not signed

You have to work to kill the Lich, Shiro, and the Lich+Shiro and Abbadon. Next think you will ask us to complete DoA, the Titan Quests and Urgoz and the Deep. Its perfectly adequate as it is.

/notsigned

It's impossible to find groups already and you want less people to play?

Besides, I cant beat the mime because I never had a male ranger and I dont know the emotes... I can beat up abbadon and mallyx and master every other mission but cant play because of that? Thats silly.

/not signed

Forced grind with every character for every campaign for no reason? No thanks.

Someone's Wammo didnt get healed in time methinks.

And then they'll die.
They'll die a lot until they learn to get better at it. If the elementalist had a decent Hero of the relevant class in any case (e.g. Koss) then they should have a good starting idea for how to play the class.
What the hell is the problem with that?

I suppose you also want a 1-plat toll fee to play every mission in normal mode as well... and an absolute requirement that the character solo the last mission of the game in starter armour with no skills? How about making it a mandatory requirement that people should prove their strength by arm-wrestling professional wrestlers for 10 hours before starting to play Guild Wars... along with the archery examination and surviving being set on fire for a minute?


-_-;

Hard Mode is for those farmers and those unsatisfied whiners who can't derive any satisfaction from Normal Mode. Forcing them to charge through Normal Mode with every single character they might ever want to "have fun" with...


And why are you complaining about it?
I suspect it is because the PuGs suck.
Reality check: the PuGs usually suck, irrespective of whether it is normal or hard mode.

25 prophesies missions, 13 factions missions, 20 nightfall missions, 10 classes - nope no grind there at all. I guarentee you I can farm 100k before you can get masters in 580 missions.

No way in heck.

Sorry but thats just being stupid. I would never ask that people complete elite zones before they can do HM. I dont like elite zones.

You cant compare trying to achieve Protector to completing DOA.

Actually I'm a elementalist, I have been for 18 months and I hate warriors. Hence the use of a warrior in my example.

SotiCoto your just being stupid too. All Im asking is that people be made to gain protector first. Why people are complaining about that I dont know, I dont understand.

Its not hard and its not grinding. If my elementalist, my necro and my ranger can manage it, I dont see others cant.

Stop making daft comments like "oh you'l want us to shoot ourselves in the foot first, and out our hands in a bucket of nails before we can do HM. To show we're hard!!!".

I'm only asking for protector! Thats all.... i dont get the fuss.

And dont drag your own dislike for HM into this. Just because you believe that HM is unattainable or unplayable for your character, doesnt meant its bad and it doesnt mean that the only people who do HM are all farmers or l33t arrogant players.

Me being the example, and for the record I love Normal Mode. I dont play HM for some twisted feeling of leetism. I play it because I had done everything else and it added life to the game.

Actually all my PUGs in HM have been great. It might take a while to find them, but ive had more fun in PUGs in HM then I ever did in NM.

Yeah thats alot of missions...

...but I wasnt talking about forcing people to have protector on all three campaigns. I meant make them get protector on the campaign they want to do HM on.

Then if they want to do HM one another campaign with the same character, they do protector first.

If a player is wanting to get the Legendary Guardian title, they need to do all the bonuses and masters anyway in HM, so I dont see what difference that is to Protector?

If you think getting Protector is grinding, then why bother doing HM if your basically doing the exact same missions again?

I dont get that. Why are you doing HM if you are all complaining about grinding. Your repeating stuff youve already done anyway. Isnt that grinding?

Or are you all just doing Hard Mode for the drops?


Anyway... I have all 3 on my ele as protector. It did them as I played through the story first time around most times. Its not hard.

And you're right to say, you probably will make 100k long before u complete them all. I probably made 100k each time I did a campaign. But I dont get your point with that, because thats not a hard thing to do?

Making gold isnt hard! You sell everything that drops to the merchant and you can make 10-15k easy in one day. So whats your point?

And most players will spend about 70k anyway in a campaign on 15k armor. So its not that unsual.

/notsigned no thanks

freekedoutfish I think you are missing the point: Time Requirement and lack of necessity.

If I have beat the game already, I already know the game. Saying I have to get protector of that campaign with the given character just to "learn" the character or campaign does not make sence.

If I got the CHARACTER to lvl20, regardless of where, and I have already beaten a CAMPAIGN, regardless of which character I did it with, wouldnt it mean that:

A = I know what the campaign will throw at me
B = I know and have played the role of my character.
A + B = C = I know what the campaign will throw at me and I know my character enough to play it.

Yes/No?? *confused*

/notsigned

The ONLY reason I might support this is it would hurt bot farmers who would have to run their 55 monks through the game instead of another "runner" character on the same account.
Don't be so elitist to call players who have beaten the game "novices." If you want higher/more consistant quality of people on your team, use heros and guildmates/freinds.

You already have the knowledge that most PUGs are destined to fail in Normal mode. If you're asking for a group in Hard Mode, you're asking to lose.

/Not Signed, because it's not a problem.

/notsigned

For most Prophecies missions, getting the bonus doesn't demonstrate any extra skill, it just shows that you bothered to look up the bonus on the wiki. And since there was no great payoff for bonuses when most of my characters did Prophecies, I mostly ignored them. I'm fully capable of playing at the HM level, and I sure as hell don't want to go back through Prophecies and pick up 25 bonuses just to be allowed to.

And making it per-character is also a bad thing. I have 8 characters, and I like to be able to help a guildmate in hard mode who needs a particular profession in a particular place. I'm supposed to earn Protector x 24?

Also, in my experience, the problem isn't the quality of hard mode puggers, but the quantity. There have been a couple of exceptions, but most of the people trying HM missions have a pretty good idea what they're doing. I think a lot of the weaker players have been scared off already.

Oh yea! And make Rollerbeetle Arena only for people who have H4xz0r Skillz!

Hmm I definately do not agree.

/not signed

you already need to beat the campaign in order to play hard mode, so it's not really possible for someone who has never played x mission to enter hard mode with you...
i do have all 3 protector titles on one of my characters, but i honestly don't remember everything in every mission, even though i've played several characters through all 3 games. seems a bit much to ask for imo

/not signed

sry bud, but i don't see a need for every character you own to have the protector title...

HM should not be just for protectors. first just look at the threads complaining that there are not enough hm players. second there is no harm in having inexperienced players in your pug(this is just a game) -- talk about a plan before the mission -if people(s) don't follow the plan kick them out when back in town and try again...

/unsigned
Hard mode isn't only for the missions,its there to aquire vanquisher and farming to. If you dont want newbz0r pugs just get a decent f-list

Stop pugging imo.

/notsigned

Won't happen thankfully.

/not signed

I have done the missions so many times i don't care about the protector title, If i get Masters on a mission great, but i don't go back because omg, I missed one.. but here is a suggestion.. if you want to team with only those who have the Protector title ask to see their title..

Also, I don't see why you have to go around calling ppl stupid because they disagree with you on your post.. If you post something be prepared for OPINIONS because everyone has one. Just because it is different than what you believe doesn't mean it holds any less value.. Actually I think this part could go for a few ppl on this forum.. but then again that is my opinion ;p

/notsigned

finishing a campaign once is plenty good enough. i can't be asked to finish every campaign on all 8 characters (AND get protector on them all) just to unlock HM for them. HM leaves me the option of vanquishing whilst doing quests rather than just beating the snot out of level 10 monsters with my level 20 toons/heroes. let's face it - NM is boring as hell when you first bring a character over from other campaigns.

level 1 iboga / level 20 ele = noob bashing

/not signed.

I for one am glad at the chance to play hard mode. I have not got a protector title in any chapter, but i have completed ALL 3 of them (and have completed chpt 2 and 3 with 8 characters each).

I have been playing for nearly two years and would say i am an experienced and knowledgable player, but your suggestion would stop me from taking part in something that has basically added new interest to the game.

Why have i not got the protector title, mostly because always getting master or bonus results wasnt really important to me. I like getting to the end and revealing the story, doing all the side quests, mapping out the maps and helping guildies. As a result, there are five or so missions in each chapter that i have not got 100% results on, but then i'm not a title addict.
Personally, i think the way the entry requirement was set was fair to all and i am glad it did not require a title.

I cant remember, but i believe a character does have to at least be ascended to enter hard mode and really, that should be enough. By that time you should have enough understanding of how your character works and their strengths and weaknesses.

You must allow for the fact that at the end of the day, there are some players who are great, some who are average and some who are just plain bad and even with titles, there is no guarentee what one you would end up with in your PUG. There are enough mission runners about for anyone to get the titles if they really want them, even if they are bad players.

/not signed

not everyone who plays guildwars has the time to develope their skills to your exacting standards. You should remember that GW is only a game not a matter of life and death.
On any online game you will find that you have people of varying levels of skill - but guess what? They have as much right to play and enjoy the game as you do. Yes you will get people in your teams from time to time that dont fully understand what their supposed to do. This happens to everyone - chalk it up to experience, everyone can make mistakes.
When it comes down to it - they paid their money and have the right to play all the game too.

/not signed.

Its pointless to make players have to go back and do the three bonus's they have missed. Not enough people have HM unlocked as it is.

Plus, do you honestly think protector title = skill ? LMAO no. If any titles take skill, its gladiator and hero. All the rest are easily obtainable without having any idea how to run a build properly.

/not signed

if it required that at least one character on your account had a protector in addition to the one of the characters must have beaten that campaign then it would be feasible as a good idea. Getting protector at least once on one of the characters isn't hard and is doable.

I do understand that the player lacked some knowledge on how to play that profession does affect the party but the player should already know what to do in missions and explorable areas as they already went thru it once. Also, the player should have basic knowledge on how the professions works just by observations either from others who played that profession or the AI.

Another thing is that people do not want to play normal mode everytime they play that campaign when they are or reached lvl 20.Why force a player to play normal mode when they already conquered normal mode already? Why have the player bash on a low level AI when they could be an appropriate level for their character's level? It really comes to either it is necessary or do they have time to complete protector everytime they have a new profession to play. Also, hardmode has few players already and this would only make the situation worse for those trying to do hardmode with others rather than with the heroes and henchmen.