So there once was a collector that had a sword that had a 25% Charrslaying Pommel that could be salvaged. The pommel was worthless to nearly everyone; Charr were low level creatures, and end game quests featuring Charr were few and far between. Along came Chapter 2, with the promise of "races" and the re-emergence of Charr. As would be expected, ANET went to the local toy store, bought a nerf bat and removed the 25% Charrslaying Pommel from the collector and replaced it with a 20% pommel. Then the sheeple (sheep+people) that made up the majority of GW players started to beleive that the 25% Charr Pommel was special. And why not, it was "nerfed"? Prices increased and sheeple began to purchase the 25% pommel for outlandish prices.
So a couple things for the average GW player to think about (you know who you are...):
1. Nerfed items are cool.
2. ANET has never shyed away from collectors items and then nerfing items in players inventory; all in the name of balance (15% FFS, SoA Axe anyone?).
So before you buy a 25% Charrslaying pommel, with the belief that it will give you an "edge" in PvP/PvE, please remember the following:
1. If the average "have-not" believes that the 25% version of the pommel gives you an edge in PvE... ANET will nerf it in your inventory...every instance... every 25% Charrslaying weapon... to 20%.
2. If it gives you a perceived edge in PvP (due to Charr being a selectable race)... ANET will nerf it in your inventory...every instance... every 25% Charrslaying weapon... to 20%.
So please bear these thoughts in mind before you waste your money.
~Cap
A Note About the 25% Charrslaying Pommel
capitalist
arcanemacabre
Great points, Capitalist. Though I have one counterpoint:
What about the 15% unconditional weapons? They were obviously a bug (unintended), obviously have an advantage, obviously very rare, and yet they remain untouched to this day. Why would you suppose Anet has yet to "fix" these anomalies?
What about the 15% unconditional weapons? They were obviously a bug (unintended), obviously have an advantage, obviously very rare, and yet they remain untouched to this day. Why would you suppose Anet has yet to "fix" these anomalies?
capitalist
I hate to say it, but your counterpoint is not a counterpoint. The HoD Axe and 15% Fiery Flame Spitter are the best examples of the phenomenon, while unconditionals are in a different category. But if you want to talk unconditionals, I will be brief (and lets try not to derail the thread):
Not enough of them to make a difference. There are about 20 unconditionals in the game, +/- some %. Some are non max, only a couple max are 15% (one of them in on a pve only acct), so really no big deal. Average out the dmg over time and you really wont see much difference. They just aren't that imbalanced.
We can definitely debate this, but with unconditionals, there is just no "right" answer. But I think that the fact that most of them sit on dead accts or pve accts most definitely helps the cause.
Not enough of them to make a difference. There are about 20 unconditionals in the game, +/- some %. Some are non max, only a couple max are 15% (one of them in on a pve only acct), so really no big deal. Average out the dmg over time and you really wont see much difference. They just aren't that imbalanced.
We can definitely debate this, but with unconditionals, there is just no "right" answer. But I think that the fact that most of them sit on dead accts or pve accts most definitely helps the cause.
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by capitalist
Not enough of them to make a difference. There are about 20 unconditionals in the game, +/- some %. Some are non max, only a couple max are 15% (one of them in on a pve only acct), so really no big deal. Average out the dmg over time and you really wont see much difference. They just aren't that imbalanced.
We can definitely debate this, but with unconditionals, there is just no "right" answer. But I think that the fact that most of them sit on dead accts or pve accts most definitely helps the cause. |
If these very few that are out there are truly rarely if ever used (because the owners have left), then would anyone complain if Anet did change them to say 15^50 or their original 15/-1? I don't see any downsides with changing them, just confused as to why they're still not changed.
Regardless, I see where you're going, you're essentially trying to make sure no one is foolish enough to buy something for it's special ability, when Anet will just turn around and destroy it. Only thing is, I don't see any selectable races until GW2, Charr or otherwise, and when that comes around, I doubt we'll see the same type of items with the same modifies. This item won't even exist, I'm sure. Though it's still bound to be nerfed at some point.
-Loki-
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Originally Posted by capitalist
2. If it gives you a perceived edge in PvP (due to Charr being a selectable race)... ANET will nerf it in your inventory...every instance... every 25% Charrslaying weapon... to 20%.
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capitalist
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Originally Posted by -Loki-
Only morons would assume this. Charr are not selectable as a playable race until GW2, and Arenanet have said that you cannot transfer items to a GW2 account through the HoM.
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Great Scoot
They aint gonna do crap. They never TOTALLY nerfed any of the HOD stuff. Me and my buddy, when we heard about GW:EN and how there are going to be different races and dungeons for each one. Farmed the +25% mods like mad. I really woundnt care that much if they were entirally nerfed, but i am willing to bet that they dont, which will be nice when it comes to fighting against the charr.
-scoot
-scoot
Amy Awien
Charr slaying mods aren't that useless for PvE in hard mode. With the small party sizes around Old Ascalon every bit counts.
Spazzer
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Originally Posted by capitalist
Not enough of them to make a difference. There are about 20 unconditionals in the game, +/- some %. Some are non max, only a couple max are 15% (one of them in on a pve only acct), so really no big deal. Average out the dmg over time and you really wont see much difference. They just aren't that imbalanced.
We can definitely debate this, but with unconditionals, there is just no "right" answer. But I think that the fact that most of them sit on dead accts or pve accts most definitely helps the cause. |
If they do nerf them tho, I'll feel bad for that guy with the +15% max dwarven axe.
fenix
Unconditionals are too rare to matter, and only a couple of PvPers ever had one.
As for the Charr mod. I laugh at people who a) spend a heap of cash on them, and b) think they'll have an advantage. Against what? Retarded PvE AI? Awesome!
As for the Charr mod. I laugh at people who a) spend a heap of cash on them, and b) think they'll have an advantage. Against what? Retarded PvE AI? Awesome!
Warskull
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1. If the average "have-not" believes that the 25% version of the pommel gives you an edge in PvE... ANET will nerf it in your inventory...every instance... every 25% Charrslaying weapon... to 20%. 2. If it gives you a perceived edge in PvP (due to Charr being a selectable race)... ANET will nerf it in your inventory...every instance... every 25% Charrslaying weapon... to 20%. |
2) If this situation arose, it would get nerfed as you said. However, as mentioned, selectable races were never mentioned as part of GW:EN.
Corinthian
Since you can't take any items to GW2, the "edge in PvP vs. Charr" point is invalid.
Spazzer
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Originally Posted by fenix
Unconditionals are too rare to matter, and only a couple of PvPers ever had one.
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Anybody?
Anybody?
Theus
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Originally Posted by Spazzer
Denravi Sword?
Anybody? Anybody? |
Yanman.be
I don't get the point of this thread...?
Spazzer
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Originally Posted by Theus
What's your point exactly?Are you suggesting that the Denravi Sword is on a level like that of the 15%/No requirement/Drawback weapons?
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makosi
I think the adjective we're looking for is 'rockmoldered'. I'm willing to bet that the excisting +25% Charrslaying pommels in circulation will be changed to +20%.
For those who don't understand, the Rockmolder was a green Illusion Magic off-hand in Prophecies with a universal 20% Halves Skill Recharge modifier. This wasn't replicable in PvP so it was considered imbalanced. The Rockmolders began dropping as 10% HSR but the existing Rockmolders weren't changed until about 12 months later.
Needless to say, old Rockmolders were valuable and people QQ'd when the Dev team changed them. I lol'd.
For those who don't understand, the Rockmolder was a green Illusion Magic off-hand in Prophecies with a universal 20% Halves Skill Recharge modifier. This wasn't replicable in PvP so it was considered imbalanced. The Rockmolders began dropping as 10% HSR but the existing Rockmolders weren't changed until about 12 months later.
Needless to say, old Rockmolders were valuable and people QQ'd when the Dev team changed them. I lol'd.
Firebaall
Sounds like the OP tried to buy one, and the seller didn't back down on his/her asking price. lol
Jetdoc
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Originally Posted by Warskull
1) Not true, A.net does not go back and nerf existing items for PvE balance. All the items that got hit in this manner (FFS, Lts. Helm) were because they created imbalance in the PvP environment and provided mods that could not be obtained by PvP characters.
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:doh:
lyra_song
Makosi...i like that. Its a new tv show!
YOU'VE BEEN ROCKMOLDER'D!
YOU'VE BEEN ROCKMOLDER'D!
Orphan Anthem
seriously. if you need a 5% damage increase to kill char/kill char effecivly thats just sad. every bit DOES help but at a sertin point you just stoking the fire.
The Herbalizer
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Originally Posted by Spazzer
The fact is there is a difference, and you are wrong. :]
If they do nerf them tho, I'll feel bad for that guy with the +15% max dwarven axe. |
Let me see: -
R10 15% Short Sword = Bought for 1000 Ecto
Or
R10 Short Sword 15>50 & R10 Short Sword 20<50 = Like nothing
15>50 + 20<50 is better than just 15%
A very very experienced PVP friend of mine said how he would only buy them for rarity and not to use their unconditional damage.
Now let me see, how many actually decent unconditionals are we left with? 2
R12 15% Dwarven Axe & R10 15% Short Sword (If you count an account which hasnt logged on for 2 months)
15>50 & 20<50 R9 equivalents would be #1 Cheaper & #2 Better
No real need for Anet to nerf a set of items which only number around 2 dozen. Of which only 5 as far as I know are 100% perfect excusing their high reqs in some cases.
In PVE or PVP no player who tries to use the best equipment possible would use an unconditional weapon as multiple weapon sets are alot more better/useful than just one axe, bow, hammer or sword.
Anyway as they are gold items I dont think Anet can alter them. They have always altered mods, collectors items, armour etc yet I have never known them to alter golds. Maybe because they cant.
I can guarantee that most unconditional weapons were not bought so the owner can go haxor p30p73 in pvp or pve for that matter. They were bought because they are ultra rare. I know I bought my two for the rarity and not for the damage advantage (even though there isnt really one).
Anyone wanting to get full use of it in PVE or PVE would have to customize it as a white clean weapon customized would do more damage than an uncustomized unconditional weapon. The number of customized unconditionals is very few.
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Originally Posted by Spazzer
Yes. That is exactly what I am saying.
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Originally Posted by Firebaall
Sounds like the OP tried to buy one, and the seller didn't back down on his/her asking price. lol
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
Then why did A-Net convert items that previously had the 25% Charrslaying pommel on it to 20%?
:doh: |
Former Ruling
Wait...those 25% mods were worth something?
MANNNNNN
I have like a BUNCH of them sitting around in random character's inventorys...Back from when I went around trying to salvage the mods of every collectors thing I could to prove that you could do so (I posted it on a thread and noone beleived me).
MANNNNNN
I have like a BUNCH of them sitting around in random character's inventorys...Back from when I went around trying to salvage the mods of every collectors thing I could to prove that you could do so (I posted it on a thread and noone beleived me).
Skawtt
Meh I got two of the damn things floating around somewhere on a mule. Dont really care if I use them or sell them..thanx for the storage update a-net!
Prince Asmodai
So. is the HoD sword +5 worth anything anymore...i have 2 but one is customized to my character for running..lol 
Nuclear Eclipse
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
Great points, Capitalist. Though I have one counterpoint:
What about the 15% unconditional weapons? They were obviously a bug (unintended), obviously have an advantage, obviously very rare, and yet they remain untouched to this day. Why would you suppose Anet has yet to "fix" these anomalies? |
The answer is no... so there is no big IMBA.
Thorondor Port
I use my 25% char dmg mod in pvp.
Malice Black
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Originally Posted by Nuclear Eclipse
How is 15% unconditional much better than 15>50...? Does anyone really run around in pve or pvp with under 50% health long enough to cause a loss in DPS vs the 15% unconditional...
The answer is no... so there is no big IMBA. |
Prince Asmodai
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Originally Posted by Thorondor Port
I use my 25% char dmg mod in pvp.
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Malice Black
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Originally Posted by Thorondor Port
I use my 25% char dmg mod in pvp.
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CyberNigma
Das Hip
I agree with Loki,
I've been up north living in the bush for 3 weeks, but unless I missed something weapons don't even transfer over to GW2 so what the hell is the point? lol
Guildwars 2 is a completely different game built on a different engine. All y'all are getting transferred over is a Hall of Accomplishments.
Yes, I know there are many 'sheeple' out there though, that point is well taken :P
I've been up north living in the bush for 3 weeks, but unless I missed something weapons don't even transfer over to GW2 so what the hell is the point? lol
Guildwars 2 is a completely different game built on a different engine. All y'all are getting transferred over is a Hall of Accomplishments.
Yes, I know there are many 'sheeple' out there though, that point is well taken :P
Stealthc
The 15% Fiery Flame Spitter was nerfed because it used to be 15% chance of half recharge on all SKILLS and if that isn't imbalanced I don't know what is.
fenix
They changed the 25% to 20% in order for it to be the same as all the other +dmg vs race mods. Example: Dwarfslaying mod; 20% more vs Dwarves, Ogreslaying; 20% more vs Ogres, so naturally; Charrslaying; 20% more vs Charr.
Divinus Stella
They will get nerfed if they become popular, in the same way unconditional weapons will get nerfed as soon as people make a fuss about them, theres also more of them around than people realise, ive seen all the threads about them in ventaris and lists people have made but none look complete.
I thought they changed all the 15% FFS back to 10, i remember someone showing me theirs before it got nerfed.
I thought they changed all the 15% FFS back to 10, i remember someone showing me theirs before it got nerfed.
StueyG
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Originally Posted by Nuclear Eclipse
How is 15% unconditional much better than 15>50...? Does anyone really run around in pve or pvp with under 50% health long enough to cause a loss in DPS vs the 15% unconditional...
The answer is no... so there is no big IMBA. |
This I thought would have been cleared up already in the post by Herbalizer, because in the case that they DO get below 50% then you can simply hit a key and switch to a 20<50 weapon getting the extra 5%. There is no advantage at all to use a 15% unconditional weapon. It is just like people that use 15/-1 offhands and such in PvP and PvE in some cases to get the extra energy. It's not hard to use a switch weapon. So where is the advantage? There is none in keeping a 15% item in use when you could get 5% more damage. They are collectibles, and that's it.
I think the ONLY point being made was that people have been running around claiming that 25% vs charr is some super great thing and you need it for GW2 and such. I have seen tons of people saying that. Sure, it gives you a bit of help in HM and maybe GW:EN, but it's not worth what most people have said they are valued at and if by some chance they did give some major advantage then they would get nerfed. Basicly think he was trying to say they are not worth wasting tons of money on. I actually tried to grab a 25% vs charr axe grip for a reasonable price for HM just to have and someone tried to tell me it was worth loads and asked something absurd like 30-40k. It's not that I need it to kill charr but it is nice to have a bit extra damage But I would just get the 20% since people have been crazy about it. Paying 45k for a 25% when you could get a 20% for 3-5k is most likely the point of the OP. It is just not worth it.
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
Fine, then why hasn't Anet made 15% unconditional widely available? You either argue against the removal by saying "There is no advantage at all to use a 15% unconditional weapon", or you argue against making them widely available because of balance issues. You can't have both and remain fair.
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*sigh* Who cares about unconditional weapons. There is nothing fair or unfair about them. That is a dumb argument. There is nothing to "balance" about them. This WAS a thread about the 25% vs charr mods, because people have been asking crazy prices for them and he was saying not to pay outrageous prices for something that is not worth it.
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by StueyG
This I thought would have been cleared up already in the post by Herbalizer, because in the case that they DO get below 50% then you can simply hit a key and switch to a 20<50 weapon getting the extra 5%. There is no advantage at all to use a 15% unconditional weapon. It is just like people that use 15/-1 offhands and such in PvP and PvE in some cases to get the extra energy. It's not hard to use a switch weapon. So where is the advantage? There is none in keeping a 15% item in use when you could get 5% more damage. They are collectibles, and that's it.
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Clone
Personally, I'd like them to go back and nerf the rest of the existing mods, even though I managed to save a few. I just don't like it when they do a half-assed job by removing a source of items from the game without actually making sure they've fixed all occurances of the item too. Right now, they're really only usefull for hard-mode Charr farming. We don't know what EOTN will bring, so that isn't much of an issue either. The issue for me is their apparent stance that the items shouldn't exist, but they're really not going to go to the trouble to fix it completely. Had they fixed everything, this conversation woudn't have even started.
fenix
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
Fine, then why hasn't Anet made 15% unconditional widely available? You either argue against the removal by saying "There is no advantage at all to use a 15% unconditional weapon", or you argue against making them widely available because of balance issues. You can't have both and remain fair.
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Here's why:
To play an Axe build in PvP, you USUALLY have at least 3 axes. Examples may be;
Sundering + Fortitude (sundercrit = gg)
Vampiric + Fortitude
Elemental + Fortitude
The 3 are used for different circumstances, ie regular attacking, vs protted targets, vs wars etc. If you wanted to use an Unconditional, you'd actually be putting yourself at a DISADVANTAGE, as you would only have the 15% unconditional on 1 axe, not all the others. And to get 3+ Unconditional Axes that are worth using, would be impossible, as there aren't that many.
So basically, you are at a disadvantage if you think that an unconditional is imba in PvP, as you cannot weapon-swap to other unconditionals. I'd only ever get one to show off, not for using (unless it was Zrave's Dwarven :P)
KANE OG
anet has ALWAYS nerfed anything and everything that; Gave an advantage to PvE (especially farmers), was FUN, was entertaining. That's just what they do. Seriously.
KANE
KANE