Deep and Urgoz filled with noobs ?

Thx for the advice. I'll try searching the Int districts. I've been trying to get into the deep with my warrior though and I think I'll stick with that. I have a monk, but she's still young and naive. She's barely out of LA and has no elites in her inventory yet. Trust me, you don't want her on your team!!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm a decent player. I'm not the best out there, but I do ok. I usually listen to my teammates and I'll adjust my build to the leader's wishes unless they're just being obnoxious jerks about it.
The ones that irritate me the most are the "constant pingers" and the "scribblers".
"Ok, everyone stand HERE" pingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpi ng NOT THERE, HERE!!!!!pingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingp ingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpin gpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingp ing I SAID HERE!!!!!!pingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingping pingpingpingping pingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpingpi ngping

Actually what I find more frustrating are the group of players who have completed the elites 10-40 times. For some reason people in this range seem to get the "I know better than all" state of mind and "you must bow down to my greatness and do as I say or it will be failure".

I am sorry those people absolutely drive me crazy. True veterans can play together and help new people without ordering and insulting eachother and it is actually fun and relaxing to play.

I am not talking about pinging builds you do need to know, but rather the "trap on me now - you stand here now - omg you didn't put this spirit there - the spirit wall isn't straight enough"

And of course whatever build they are they want to pull (elementalists, MM's and monks pulling FTL)

To be completely honest with you your team in Urgoz is as good or as bad as your BIP ( I don't play one btw). If he/she can keep monks and rit energy high, while boosting ele energy occasionally your team will do well.

I agree with the above poster, a true vetran can take both experienced and inexperienced people and lead them to success.

People who complain that everyone are n00bs and no one is L337 as them make the game a crappy place to be, and disenchant people from playing. Why play, if you're trying to learn, and folks call you a noob and rant about, why you did/didn't
: pull aggro
: heal fast enough
: kill that person
: have the right build
: aggro those baddies
etc. etc.

people do make mistakes, and in fact, some of the folks playing are 13 years old and so, good grief, they're going to do silly things sometimes. Everyone's going to do silly things... get over it, and start helping instead of whining.

Does the OP mean 'newb' or 'noob' (or both)? I always understood them to be seperate things. I have no problems taking newbs in a group (hey I am one for deep as I have only completed urgoz) as they are generally willing to listen and change builds if they aren't suitable (though perhaps it would be better if people new to an area did it in normal mode first). Noobs on the other hand being egotistical/impatient idiots who think they know it all and don't listen to any advice. Thankfully you can often tell who they are when asking about their build or the appearance of gogogogo's if you take a while to setup the group. Newbs are fine and generally enjoyable to play with, having noobs in a group I loathe...

got me a nice inscribable exalted aegis, I hadnt done the deep in ages so it was fun. ran into one of my friends i hadnt seen in a lil bit and we went with her guild. on our second run through, we had a warrior who hadnt done before... yeah the usual, kept getting poisoned around onis, kept attacking the jellys, but know what? We finished, and that warrior finished too, and now he's less nooby nooberson and may help other starters to learn...
If some peeps werent too damn leet for their own socks they might have more fun playin ;P

generally the teams ive done HM Urgoz with were pro, we finished under 3 hours each time and it was fun

idk...most of the time (at urgoz anyway) the more experienced players are happy to help teach the 'noobs'. it only becomes a problem when the 'noobs' don't listen (ie. refuse to change their build, refuse to stay where told, leeroy chests, etc) or give false information and insist that they're right. when someone knows the right way to do it, you should shut up and listen

off topic rant here...

group leaders, when you want to reorder the group...don't ping a remote area of the map 654135406541 times and make people all congregate there. when you kick someone from the group, their name is still entered in the party window and all you have to do is hit the + button to re-add them. the pinging is bloody obnoxious and totally unnecessary

You would be suprised how many PUGS can be actually better than guild groups doing these types of things. I hate the word noob because everyone at one time was new to the game and probably had no clue what to do.

Like the Earthbind rit we had or the ward against harm fire ele... Good Times.

After not having played the Deep for months, I went back this past week. My first 2 groups both finished in under an hour and 20 minutes, and the first HM group I did finished in about an hour and 40 minutes. In between there was maybe 1 group that I did HM with that was more or less incompetent. Basically the first room is a good indication of how well your group will do. Also, once you make it past the teleporting room, you're home free. The Deep is basically down to a science now, even HM is pretty laughable.

Well, if any of you see a lonely looking warrior or ranger standing around the warren or deep, please send a PM. I'd love to join your group and explore these areas.

I may not know what's waiting around the next corner, but I use common sense while playing. If nobody else is venturing onto that bridge, I won't either. If there's a sweet looking chest on the other side of the room, I won't run over to it unless I KNOW the room is empty. If the leader says, "you know, Triple Chop is kinda useless in here", I'll ask what he recommends and replace it.

I understand the reluctance to take unknown players on a hard mission. I swear, my friend and I managed to find every Village Idiot in town once before warping into tombs. That was a short fun trip. I promise you that I will be an effective contributor to your team and won't drag the team down.

If you go as a Ranger, you won't find a group.

If you go as anything other than a W/A, you won't find a group.

If you just use the American districts, you probably won't get a group.

If you're a W/A in the international district, it won't take long to find a group. Also, you're not going to get invitations...either invite yourself into groups or be conscious of groups looking for warriors. It really doesn't take that long to get into a group.

Also, I don't really pay attention to warrior builds, but I know they all take recall, and I think Shove is their elite, at least for a few of them.

double post, sorry

Oh really???? The last time I was in the Warren I saw a bunch of warriors asking for a group and they were told to "Get Lost!!!!!!" in much more colorful language than that. Pretty much everyone there said if you weren't a ranger, BiP Necro or a Monk you should leave.

W/A applies more to The Deep than Warren.

Anyways, I'll try out the Deep again for myself, against my better judgment.

Sorry, yeah..the deep is W/A, E/Me, Monks, a BiP, and an SS

Warren has all the rangers.

Last night i went to Warren with pug (me, another monk, 2 nukers, Rit, BiP Necro, and 6 rangers), we did whole mission, owned Urgoz, and inscripable Guardian of the Hunt req 9 strength droped for me Too bad i sold it for 100K only, i could have get 200K for it
Btw it was my first time in Urgoz Warren

Well you guys have encouraged me to give it another shot at finding pugs in these areas.

There is 1 point I must disagree with. Sometime earlier said it's best to be honest with your pug group. If you've never done the mission before, tell them that before you start. This is good advice however in today's gaming world, I never ever tell my groups that I've never done the mission before. I've found that's the quickest way to get yourself kicked off the team.

Now, I won't do a regular mission I've never done before with a pug. I'll scope it out with henchies first, but for the elites this isn't an option. I'll peek my head in the door with 3 heroes, but that doesn't last long! LOL!

The first time I ventured into tombs, Fow and UW, I went with pugs. I kept my mouth shut and we did great. Towards the end of the runs I casually mentioned that it was my first time in the area. Usually I got responses like..
"Wow! really?"
"You've never been here? I thought you were experienced."
"OMG, I would have kicked you!"


BTW, congrats on the drop, 6. Can I call you 6?

I just had the most epic PuG failure EVER.

So yes, my group makes it to the end of The Deep in Hard Mode, too. We kill Kanaxai using the spawn-all-enemies then attack Kanaxai seperately. We kill him pretty easily.

Then, the group rushes for Kanaxai's Chest without killing the spawns. We wiped before we could collect the loot! (Well, some did. I, being the good samaritan, stayed back trying to avoid aggroing more enemies, and eventually died from the -8 degen.)

I give up on GW.

(But it was quite funny. One Monk managed to run away in time. All the Warriors and Elementalists were spamming "rez me" and "rez me first i have to go." Quite pathetic. Of course, when a Monk managed to res another Monk, he ran directly to the chest. Yeeesh.)

EDIT: I was in Tea Girl's group, in the next post.

Just did The Deep... It makes me want to rage uninstall again

- BIP raged b/c he likes the frontline so nightmares chaos storm spiked him to death
- Told tanks to group the nightmares better in the last room... they didn't listen
- Killed Kanaxai, whole group rushed the chest... Aggroed nightmares because tank didn't group them in the start. One person got his/her/its loot and left. YEY for leavers!
- 1 monk alive. Took him forever to res an.... ELE?!
- 1 monk alive. He finally res'ed a LoD but then rushed to the chest to pick up another person's jades... and he also aggroed nightmares on the monk he just ress'ed.

PARTY WIPED!!! HBoon + HP works like infuse magic in PVE.

Lesson learned:
WTS The Deep HM pug idiots 10g/a dozen ><

edit: *hugs syria*

And those of us veterans will welcome you. The Deep is fun -- but being an elite mission, people will be picky about PUGs because those of us who have done it > 100 times have had a lot of bad experiences with a few PUGs. On the flip side -- we have made MANY more friends that way too. As a matter of fact, I'd say a large majority of the good, regular players in our guild were recruited in the Deep.

Just remember that Hard Mode can be very difficult, and if you are new and don't know how a typical run is made then some people can be unforgiving. Our guild actually likes to bring along newbs, especially ones that are willing to listen and pay attention. If we PUG with veterans who we don't usually play with, there is a good chance of there being a little friction (not all groups run it exactly the same way... for example, my guild likes to bring a Rit along and run with only 3 monks because it can make things go faster).

That being said, there is nothing that'll bug us more than someone who is new-ish and doesn't listen when we tell casters to unequip staffs/wands. There is a certain part in the Deep where it is critical. I can't count the number of times we've been at that part and someone doesn't believe us and re-equips their staffs/wands and draw 16+ chaos storms down on them (or even worse, then panic and run back towards the monks!!! Nothing will draw the ire of a group than someone running back towards the monks and leaving lovely little purple swirls all along the way).

If you are willing to learn, I'd love to bring you along. Just msg me ingame (IGN: Brother Mallon) and we'll see if we can't take you along on our next Deep run. Having TS would be a big plus because we can talk you through particulars instead of having to type it out.

I will say one caveat is that it is important to have the right profession/skills. Warriors need to be W/A with Recall and Shove. Stances and such are more important than dealing damage. You are a meat popsicle meant to look like a tasty Oni treat.
Eles need to know how to use SF properly or else go with an attuned MS
Monks -- Healers Boon, WoH or LoD -- and ESPECIALLY Heal Party. Healing Seed and Prot Spirit are good too... Vigorous Spirit would be a waste of a skill to bring.
Necros -- Good BiPs are ALWAYS, ALWAYS appreciated. And if you are going as the SS necro -- PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE have Spinal Shivers and either have Inspired or Reveal Enchantment. If you don't have it, we'll probably ask you to go buy it.
Rits -- I'd tell you my secret build, but Anet would probably nerf it because you can Solo rooms with it.

LOL......the samething happen to me this morning. When people see the end of the mission chest, there like OMG!!! get it before it disappears!! Luckly the monks heal us and we got the drops. Pug groups got a 90% chance of failing.

It kills me when people who have never been to the deep want to play it in hard mode. All they see is getting 3 items in the end. But then during the mission they see their bodies on the floor.

Yeah, that is why we insist everyone unequip staffs/wands. Without those equipped, the mares don't cast chaos storm.

This is insanely difficult to do now because of the change to Recall. Nightmares will strip it off the tank almost instantly, so you can't group them up and recall out anymore.

Yeah, we pull out after killing Kanax and then kill of the mares. Like I said above, you can't group up the Nightmares anymore because of the recall nerf.

Ouch. But also sounds like it was typical too. This is why you'll see the veterans being elitist.

Yep -- make sure you have glyph of lesser energy in there cuz the HB build can suck up energy like crazy!!! Either that, or hope/pray your BiP is good.

I honestly hope you don't quit trying because of one bad experience. When you get with a fantastic group that can do Hard Mode in 1:20 and everything just flows smoothly, then it is all worthwhile. And remember the names of the good people from the bad groups and try and team up with them again.

OOOO
Didn't notice the recall nerf bc I only used that tactic last summer. And yeah, I got GoLE.

But anyhow, probably not going to do the deep with pugs in the near future (lol gw).

It's GW, sometime you get them elite players who won't stop bragging about their rank 12 and their l337 fow armor. Or you get casual players who tried the hardest to help you out.

Zinger, Tea Girl. I'm really sorry to hear about your experience. I can definitely empathize with you. I don't know how many times I've had a fow group wipe because a few folks get that starry-eyed look when they see a chest.

It doesn't matter that there are 20 Skeletal Berserkers, Bonds and Ether Breakers and another 40 Shadow beasts between you and the chest. They don't see the monsters. All they see is "chest....must have chest...." as they run towards it like zombies.

Anyways, don't give up all together on pugs. There are some good players out there. Just take down the names of the ones you went with early today and avoid them like the plague. (Psst, could ya forward me those names too)

I enjoy sitting in the Int'l district and calling out people who claim to be 'pros'...I hate it when people say "pro tank lfg!"

Ouch!

I imagined the little girl in your picture saying that

I've been trying to do the Deep for a few days, but you can only seem to get a group if you want to do 9man normal, 12 man Hard, or if some idiot just blind invites 12 people & goes in before anyone is rdy. My alliance was talking about doing something on Saturday I at 1st we where talking about Deep until the guild leader said he wanted to do Urgoz to get a bow for 1 of his 4 rangers.

I've been really bored with GW lately, but with the renewed interest in the elite missions, it kinds sounds like fun. I'd love to do Urgoz with a decent group. I've been in there a couple times, but never got to the end. I'll have to see if I can make the time Sat. night and try it.

I've only done the deep a handful of times. Most of the experiences are pretty nice. However, I've met my fair share of: people who don't know what they are doing, people who cannot understand us due to language barriers and people who just are not compatible with the group.

The only time that I had to /sigh at people was when the group took 4 hours to get to the final room, but then the warriors quit because they said they "didn't have enough energy to cast Recall". They didn't even pick up the Birthday Cupcakes the Ele dropped for them. That one didn't sit nicely with me.

I generally run the BiP because it is the least taxing on the mind when I go on at 10:00PM -> 3:00AM at night. If you see Toxin Sliver around, hit me up. Last successful run I did I managed not to accidentally die.

Well what can i say, last night was a night to remember...
Urgoz Warren.
Hard Mode.
3 players left till the end of the mission
One of them was a monk, left at very beggining, leaveing me as the only monk in HM group
and...
I played till 5 AM (whole night)... and yes, we made it. Best experience ever

BTW It was my 2nd time in Urgoz, and yes, it was a PUG

Well, I didn't make it into the deep or urgoz last night. Some of my guildies came on and offered to help me unlock HA. We're not that good yet, we're all learning together, but we had a fun time in TA last night.

Yes, we finally unlocked HA and did 1 battle there. Actually won one too. (Yayy! My first fame!). This was a way better experience than the elite missions I think.

I probably won't try for the elites again until tomorrow night.

No, everyone was a newb at one point, not necessarily a noob.

And the flooding of the deep and urgoz would be the end mission chest and the fact that people maybe want to try the elite mission.

*Goes to look for the thread purpose*

you know wat i hate? when people finished the deep or the quests in doa they all start to talk like they are all pros and call the people who have no exp noobs. really hate them.

Umm..I'm not a noob or anything,I've been playing this for 18 months,but seriously,where and what on earth is urgoz and deep?And what campaign? XD

I once joined a pug to kill Kanaxai and the bip left about half way through. Yet we soldiered on and killed Kanaxai without a bip. People need to whine less and actually use the resources they have available to them......mmmmmkkkkk.

They're in the Factions campaign at both House and Cavalon. You can gain access by trading in 1k factions for a Deep or Urgoz scroll from the Factions rewards guy in the respective capital.

The main difference between a newb and a noob is a noob refuses to take in advice while a newb is inexperienced but is willing to listen to suggestions of others.

Yes I hate pugs because there's more noobs than newbs in your average pugs and I'm not one for dealing with trying to argue why X build or skill doesn't work. I've done elite missions before and it's not my cup of tea for pugging.

You guys have made it sound like so much fun

Now if I can persuade enough alliance people to try it, and get some pugs, see just how far we get before splat

Can warrior's hit stuff in this? Or is tanking more what it's about? And how useful are sins? my only 2 chars that can make it

there are a lot of inexperienced people in the deep (cant speak for urgoz). This is fine, I'm all for helping people. The problem is that they want to pass it off like they're xp, and dont take advice. I've done about 14 successful HM runs out of 16 total, so I've been pretty lucky. Here's what I do to weed out the inxp.

Ask everyone to ping their builds. Look for stupid stuff that shows that they don't know the build, they just guess or saved some other build out of chat. Things like the bip taking 2 condition removal skills, or the warriors not taking stances.

Skills = Skill, sort of. If you get a real stupid answer like a monk saying 'sorry, I don't have healing seed', its probably time to find a new group. If you've done it before, you have the skills, period. The same goes for groups that are totally cool with that.

Look for the equipment. If the warriors dont have icy weapons of foritude, gg. Also, and I hate to be an elitist but they dont have 15k armor, seriously question whether they know what they are doing. Almost everyone has 15k, it shows that you have enough understanding of basic game mechanics to raise a little bit of money.

The teleporter room... Every time I enter the deep I mentally thank the level designer for this insidiously simple devie. Its so easy. 134134134222. If you've done the deep before, you can decipher this even without an ordered list. 2 warriors and 3 eles vying to get into the same room = time to leave.

Maintain a list. Take a sheet of paper and divide it into two columns, label them 'good' and 'bad' whenever someone is bad, or generally an ass in a tophat, put them on the bad list with a little note and don't group with them before.

Like i said, i'm by no means an elitist, but if people want to play the 'im xp, ive beaten hm before' game and waste my time, then i'm going to be a little miffed. Hard mode deep is not the place to learn the basics of guild wars.

I'm in the process of typing up a little guide.. there is a guide on wiki but its a little out of date concerning the new NF skills and minor tweaks like that, so i'll just include whats become relevant.