Destruction of Protective Spirit as a farming tool is inevitable

LifesRestorer

LifesRestorer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

London, England

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by gene terrodon
Move it into divine favor. that nerf is a buff.

anyways leave the skill alone. if you want to stop the farming, then all you have to do is stick one little necro, or mesmer, or ranger with interrupts in the groups. gfg, i lost all my enchantments.

Sk8tborderx

Sk8tborderx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

PA

Us Are Not [leet]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarKaster
don't know if has been stated or not but if they really wanted to end all the 55/ what ever builds all they had to do was change PS to Target other Ally. And BOOM you still have the everything except the ability to cast it on your self. Then you would need to take 2 copies of prot spirit in PvP, most guilds use a 2 monk backline, and the heal monk usually does not have the room on the bar to add prot spirit. This is a bad decision, because it would limit skillbars even more then they are now. Restricting skillbars in PvP = bad plain and simple.

WhiteLightHealing

WhiteLightHealing

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2006

We Farm Your [ECTOs]

W/

What ever, , lol with out protect spirit, 55/105 doesnt even exist, bots will have problems farming, and seroiusly, there are alots of FKing
bots around in the games,

go to granite citadel, hot spring,,ect.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi Garett
Too many PvPers would rage if PS got nerfed. I love how everyone glosses over the often suggested and obvious change of "cannot take more than 60..40 damage from a single attack" or similar. This would be a *buff* in PvP. Leave PvP out of your "I love my farm cheese" arguments.

CE Devilman

CE Devilman

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

hell

Do U Trust Anet

N/Mo

no need to kill skills..just take out one control options (F11 - control)
"Targeting: Item - Nearest"
this way bots cant pick up any drops.

ahbuh

ahbuh

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

Vamp

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by CE Devilman
no need to kill skills..just take out one control options (F11 - control)
"Targeting: Item - Nearest"
this way bots cant pick up any drops. That would be the funniest shit you ll see, when the botters look after hours of farming and they get absolutely nothing. LMAO, nice one CE Devilman.

Age

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

This person has no idea what he is talking about as it is the no 1 to negate spikes.

Swift Thief

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2007

Aatxe Pirates [YaRR]

A/

Protective spirit as a farming tool nerfed? Jesus Christ, farming has been nerfed enough with loot scaling...

Abnaxus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Europe

Keepers of Chaos

Quote:
Originally Posted by gene terrodon
As for Abnaxus, think of loot scaling as the fed raising the interest rate to quell inflation.
Alot of the casual farmers these days farm for items, not gold.
The fact that there is less gold and more items, in combination, caused prices to drop.
Not one or the other.
It really is simple economics, supply is up, demand is low, funds are limited and rare items aren't rare anymore. Those factors have caused rock bottom pricing for everything, from "rare" skins and boss weapons, to materials and runes. Ok, so the is the economy good or bad now?

Most players complained about the fact that prices of everything were unaffordable, because of 55hp farmers which produced a massive influx of cash in game, causing inflation.

Then A.net introduced hard mode and loot scale. The effect has been what you describe, less cash, more items, and consequently dramatic price reduction for most items, but also for runes and materials.

Now, players again complain that farmers ruin the economy. In what sense?

Do they mean that 55hp farming (or farming in general) are causing prices to be "too low"?

If this is the sense, I can only say WTF do players want? High prices again? "Medium" prices? What is a fair level of prices, and who decides what is a fair level?

idicious

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

Holland

LoD

P/W

Sry, double post

idicious

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

Holland

LoD

P/W

It's been around since the start, been used for years for farming (ever since the 55hp build came out) Don't see why they'd suddenly nerf it now after having tollerated it so long. If they wanted to stop hardmode solo farming without hitting the casual farmers they could either:

Nerf Shielding Hands (longer recharge or shorter duration) and/or Shield of Absorption, making both last just a bit shorter or increase recharge by a few seconds would destroy HM solo 55hp farming (they reduce your damage to 0, prot spirit only on will still kill you)

Or make it so Mystic Regeneration gives at most +10 hp regen (you have around +20hp regen as 55 monk with it) and ti also fixes the issue of solo HM farming w/o hitting the casual farmers.

Sergeant of Marines

Sergeant of Marines

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

Japan

[트두므s], Guild Leader

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by gene terrodon
Who made you the "farming authority?" You can take your "membership card" and....



Nerf PS...take a big fat bat...preferably used by the HGH freak known as Barry Bonds and smash it into McCovey Cove.

Make it so it cannot be self cast.
Increase the recharge time.
Make it unable to be stacked.
Move it into divine favor.
Just do something.
55 farming is horribly boring and to easy to be setup in a bot program.


As for Abnaxus, think of loot scaling as the fed raising the interest rate to quell inflation.
Alot of the casual farmers these days farm for items, not gold.
The fact that there is less gold and more items, in combination, caused prices to drop.
Not one or the other.
It really is simple economics, supply is up, demand is low, funds are limited and rare items aren't rare anymore. Those factors have caused rock bottom pricing for everything, from "rare" skins and boss weapons, to materials and runes.

The notion that taking away the "tools" needed to do a deed is the simplest and most effective way to stop anyone or group of people.
So I would agree with taking away the tool that is the cornerstone to most of the solo farming builds. Correct me if I am wrong but dont people in [FU] Farm using the 105 famine Titan farm all day, yes they do, I know this for a fact since I was once the leader of the alliance between our 2 guilds [BEER], but anyways, not flaming here, is it overpowered, YES, BUT they will not nerf it or change it for the foloowing reason's...

a. Hard mode would be almost impossible without it, (DOA anyone?)
b. It would put a big hit to both PvP and PvE in so many diffrent ways, it would make a great many of people just quit the game...Do you think Anet is really going to bite the hand that feeds them (they might have already done it with lootscaling, but I am in favor of it)

FU: Say hello to Matt for me, hope everything is going well, and I took Torin away from you =D

Melody Cross

Melody Cross

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Alliance of Anguish [aOa]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxBat
I love how everyone glosses over the often suggested and obvious change of "cannot take more than 60..40 damage from a single attack" or similar. This would be a *buff* in PvP. Leave PvP out of your "I love my farm cheese" arguments. Because that would be a significant nerf to PvP for the exact reason why Prot Spirit works for farmers. A player with PS on him at 0 DP takes 10% of his life in damage. A player with 60% DP--and 40% of his health--takes 10% of his current health in damage when PS is on him.

Prot Spirit can keep a player that has been pounded for a long match alive for a little while longer. It can be the difference between them contributing to the game in its end phase or staying on the ground and being useless.

If prot spirit is going to be nerfed for farming, then all the other farming builds should be nerfed as well. This won't stop bots at all. It would just stop them from using monks to farm.

Thats my opinion any way.

And if PS is to be nerfed, it should be nerfed the way SB was. It only works on the next X attacks. That made SB useless in farming but made little impact in PvP.

GGs

placebo overdose

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

N/

the day PS,SFA,and mystic regen will make me all gitty and happy because i hate how abused they all are

TideSwayer

TideSwayer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

We Farm Your [?????????s]

To all of you saying that Protective Spirit is integral to PvE and PvP in non-farming situations, and that changing it would destroy the game, doesn't that exemplify the entire point of this topic, that Prot Spirit is overpowered? If one skill is so powerful that it's needed for many "integral" game things, maybe the game itself needs a rebalancing to prevent the overuse of this skill?

I know it's very useful in Hard Mode, but it seems like ANet should've named it Protective Spirit Mode instead. Same for PvP. Protective Spirit Wars.

Is the entire game more or less designed around this one skill now?


BTW, this topic is actually breeding some good discussion. Thanks for not turning it into a hatefest.

Sergeant of Marines

Sergeant of Marines

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

Japan

[트두므s], Guild Leader

Mo/

Tide:I do agree that is a very "useful skill" in so many ways...like I said, yes it is overpowered but due to the fact that Anet has done nothing about it in over 2 years or so, I don't think they will be making any changes to it...But we also thought the same thing about soul reaping too, now look at it, but like everything in this world, All good things must come to an end, so if they do change it so that it is not so overpowered, some cleaver person will just find a whole new way to get around it some way=D.

Sk8tborderx

Sk8tborderx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

PA

Us Are Not [leet]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxBat
I love how everyone glosses over the often suggested and obvious change of "cannot take more than 60..40 damage from a single attack" or similar. This would be a *buff* in PvP. Leave PvP out of your "I love my farm cheese" arguments. I love how people fail to have any common sense. That is not a buff in any way, people die in PvP and get DP, as soon as their health drops below 400, the skill is severely weakened. There will always be bots, no matter what skills the nerf, and there are many other builds people can use. The complaining will never stop because another build will get put into the spotlight, and the cycle repeats itself.

@TideSwayer - This skill is no way overpowered, it is required because if this skill did not exist there would be no counter to spikes. All a pvp match would come down to, is who can spike the other first, and that is exactly why this skill is needed.

My Green Storage

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2006

Arizona

My Blue Storage

N/

Shadow of Haste / Shadow Form Nuker Ele (or Sin possibly in some cases?)
E/A A/E Sliver armor
Stoneflesh / Mantra of Earth / Stone Striker Ele - UW and other locations
Ele IDS farmer
**
VwK Rit
Spirit Spamming Acolyte of Dwayna Farmer
**
VwK War - UW
IDS Farming War
**
130 Derv
Derv IDS farmer (130hp ?)
**
Famine Ranger
**
105/55 duo
**
600hp Smite
55 Monk
**
55 Necro
And any sort of Necro when just standing behind a wall and SS or SV ranged attacks

^^^^^^^^
w00t look at all them fancy farming builds!!!1111 <<< 2 builds that use PS ..
****
Don't forget /V3rf t3h D/A Droks runners!!
You destroyed teh War runners!!
Nerf Vow of Silence and fleeting stability!
***

Oh and LAUGHING MY ASS OFF at those suggesting Stoneflesh Aura, Protective Spirit and a few others to be made into Elite skills.

God damn idiots.
Yea because those skills are teh 1337!
So let's make them elite skills.

Same with those suggesting throwing any sort of enchant killing enemies into EVERY(?) part of the game.
That'll fix it!
Kill all enchants to stop 1 aspect of the game .. 55 .. GG

There's already topics about PVE (Especially Hard Mode) being unplayed, except for those few vanquishing and (Like me) farming.

Do anything against any sort of protection / healing spell and you killed PVE Hard Mode for sure.

Yawgmoth

Yawgmoth

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

I strongly disbelieve that this skill will ever get nerfed because of its farming uses. If they wanted to do that, they had much better times to do that, like back in old Prophecies times when the vast majority of nonwarrior farming builds were based on it.
I'd just say that this skill will remain untouched forever.

lord_shar

lord_shar

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

near SF, CA

The easiest Protective Spirit nerf I can guess from ANET: change it to "Target other ally" only. However, skill nerfs don't address robot clients, which everyone agrees is the crux of the problem.

Willow O Whisper

Willow O Whisper

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

Denmark

Knights Of The Sacred Light [KSL]

Me/A

why on earth would ps need a nearf?

Mesmer in Need

Mesmer in Need

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

[ToA]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CE Devilman
no need to kill skills..just take out one control options (F11 - control)
"Targeting: Item - Nearest"
this way bots cant pick up any drops. Why havent they done this then?
Plz people, if they really wanted to nerf farmers, this would have been nerfed a LONG LONG LONG LONG time ago. As well as other skills like dolyak sig, stoneflesh, the riposites, shadow form, etc, etc. Dont give them any more ideas.

4ssassin

4ssassin

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2006

none

W/E

ok, so if you make PS target other, then in PvP, how exactly does the monk protect themselves from spikes? Spirt bond? So now I gotta start taking them both?

If Anet wants to ban bot farmers, why not hire a guy (count them: 1) whose job it is to stand in Granite, augry, ect, and look for bot farmers, and actively ban them, instead of nerfing skills to do it.

Fishmonger

Fishmonger

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

P/W

PS has been around since the dawn of time. the only reason PB was preferred is because it blocked just a lil bit less dmg and was maintained so you could be lazier!

Yes, PS is near required in many areas these days, and yes, bots are bad, but rly are you doing anything good by it? There are tons of bots out there, but there are also many MANY people who 55 themselves to make money and get items! Sadly, I feel as if near "made for farming" skills such as VwK will be nerfed before PS (I've been chatting with my guild about this impending doom.) Face it. And if more enchant strips come around, people will just use builds that use wep spells. Then wep spells will have to be stripped. It will be a never ending cycle!

Then we will end up with a PvE game full of professions that are nerfed into PvE oblivion with paragons and mesmers. Then the GW community will be forced to move to the *other* online games.

So in short, no. PS should not be nerfed. Why? because Anet will keep swinging the nerf bat until everyone leaves.

Captain Arne Is PRO

Captain Arne Is PRO

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2005

Reduces damage to 10% of your health. Minimum damage taken: 20

Gimme Money Plzkthx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

They're not going to nerf PS, it'd piss off PvPers and PvErs like no other....

Jacxxmaster

Jacxxmaster

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2006

At my computer, playing Guild Wars, of course!

Lords of Myth [tom]

W/

PS has been around since Prophecies. So has that blasted -50 cesta. So have 55 monks. That's been TWO YEARS. ANet would have done something about it by now. They nerfed SB because it was too easy to PS + SB + some e management + lots of damage to 55. They won't nerf it. Deal with it.

Levi Garett

Levi Garett

Old School Nub

Join Date: Jun 2005

ABQ, NM

Guildless

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxBat
Leave PvP out of your "I love my farm cheese" arguments. Please don't tell me what to do. I have the right to post whatever I feel like just like anybody else. I wasn't even flaming or negative in my reply...

I think the number of PvP'ers that have replied to this post agreeing that PS needs no change and is an integral part of a PvP skill bar speaks for itself.

As a moderator I'm asking myself: "Does this post really belong in the Farming Sub-Forum?" If it wasn't for the above average discussion (for guru) I would have already either closed or moved this topic.

With that being said let's keep the flames down and continue to post constructive replies in this topic.

Lastly I would try not to quote-flame moderators...

madman24749

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

Ceasers X I Legion

W/Mo

If they even CONSIDER nerfing it I will leave and not even consider coming back for GW2
Nerfing it will just make people make new builds and piss everyone off
Oh yeah we'll stop the bots by nerfing this, we'll stop them by changing the farming system we'll balance out everything...sure!
They, from the beginning should have made it so skills have their separate stats for pvp and pve, that would stop a lot of stuff ups, then they should start thinking of getting rid of the bots instead of slowing them down, because slowing them down slows down heaps of other people too!!!

jrk247

jrk247

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2006

Twenty Gold For Mountain Troll [Tusk]

If this is really about bots (which it seems to be) just equip every foe with an enchantment remover, problem solved.

gone

Guest

Join Date: Jan 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi Garett
As a moderator I'm asking myself: "Does this post really belong in the Farming Sub-Forum?" If it wasn't for the above average discussion (for guru) I would have already either closed or moved this topic. I'll bet the mod that bumped it from riverside felt the same exact way. ;-P

attackofthecold

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2006

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk247
If this is really about bots (which it seems to be) just equip every foe with an enchantment remover, problem solved. Thus rendering EVERY enchantment in PvE useless...

Anet isn't going to nerf it because they will loose to many players and the bots will still be there. Simple as that.

Morgoth the dark

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

[CDEX]

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by TideSwayer
Y Nothing can hurt you so it doesn't really matter what order you do skills in as long as you have prot spirit up (which can be kept up indefinitely), and ample regen. not really.
1 vamp gaze and you are done with 55hp farming on necros

Guildmaster Cain

Guildmaster Cain

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

Guildmistress Eve [Me], Guildmistress Azura [N], Guildmistress Azumi [A], Guildmistress Jaina [D]

Guildmaster Aeron [Rt], Arthas Ironfist [W], Guild: The Tyrian Templars [TTT]

How long has PS been around like this?

So why would Anet suddenly decide to nerf it now? Besides, 55 has its limits, as discussed above. Plus there are other farm builds possible without using PS at all.

Div

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

Prot spirit never generated an insane amount of loot by itself in terms of farming capability. Sure, a lot of farm builds revolve around it, but none are overpowered farm builds. The only ones that were overpowered needed spirit bond (outside harvest temple) and spirits (in urgoz). Both of those were nerfed.

TedTheDead

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Sons of Metal

N/

Well, I doubt they will nerf PS, they would have already. And doing so would enrage every non-bot player in the game that relies on it, farming or not. Its a very good skill, hurting it just to hurt bots would be a bad move because at that point ANet would be coding for the bots not the customers.

Also the long duration and 5 second recharge time is not there to make it easy to keep up on a single target, its there to allow a monk the option to keep multiple team-mates covered by it. Removing the core ability/concept to keep part of your team protected against spikes would do alot of unbalancing, and I doubt they would justify doing so just for bots.

NEOgeo

NEOgeo

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Im Paper nerf Scissor Rock is [fine]

the simple fact is .. there will always be bots as long as there is farming, OF ANY TYPE, not just 55hp , so the way to go is not to nerf skills due to bots , or add loot scaling, both of wich has totally broken GW imo, the way to do it is to ban the bots, everyone can see who they are , cause they arent even proper bots but are simple macros who recreate simple mouse and keyboard strokes , so they have to walk into walls and crap and use target closest item to both get to were they are going and pickup items, so theres a really easy nerf as said before, just remove the target nearest item hotkey , then remove loot scaling , and let the rest of us enjoy the game in peace

Sk8tborderx

Sk8tborderx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

PA

Us Are Not [leet]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk247
If this is really about bots (which it seems to be) just equip every foe with an enchantment remover, problem solved. Yes, prot spirit is used for 55 builds, LETS NERF THE GAME.

gene terrodon

gene terrodon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Maryland/DC Area

Farmers Unite [FU]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abnaxus
Ok, so the is the economy good or bad now?

Most players complained about the fact that prices of everything were unaffordable, because of 55hp farmers which produced a massive influx of cash in game, causing inflation.

Then A.net introduced hard mode and loot scale. The effect has been what you describe, less cash, more items, and consequently dramatic price reduction for most items, but also for runes and materials.

Now, players again complain that farmers ruin the economy. In what sense?

Do they mean that 55hp farming (or farming in general) are causing prices to be "too low"?

If this is the sense, I can only say WTF do players want? High prices again? "Medium" prices? What is a fair level of prices, and who decides what is a fair level? What I am saying is that all in all, the economy hasn't changed.
The prices have scaled to the available gold.

i.e. in pre-loot scaling days...lets say a gold farmer could farm about 10-15k an hour and a "perfect" Gothic Sword was 100k + 10-20 ectos (or 260K at 8k per ecto)...now that same gold farmer is farming 3-5k hour (about 66% less) and that same "perfect" Gothic Sword is now 80-90k (about 66% less).

As you can see in the example, there is no change on value of the item as compared to the income of a player, just a change in the numbers associated.

Kaida the Heartless

Kaida the Heartless

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Arne Is PRO
Reduces damage to 10% of your health. Minimum damage taken: 20 15 and I think it's fixed.