Destruction of Protective Spirit as a farming tool is inevitable
attackofthecold
Bah, people just aren't seeing it... even if you edited the minimum damage taken to 20 one can still invicimonk. Stoneflesh Aura can reduce up to 25 damage at earth magic 12 and 33 damage at earth magic 16. So even if they changed prot spirit to minimum 20-30 damage you could still go E/Mo and do it that way, or Mo/E and use regen to make up for the 5 damage taken...
Puebert
This skill has been around forever.
They obviously saw the problem when 100s of 55s started sprouting everywhere.
I was cautious to make my 55 at first, for fear of a nerf. But its been around for 2 years and I think if ANet was going to do something, they would have done something a while ago.
They obviously saw the problem when 100s of 55s started sprouting everywhere.
I was cautious to make my 55 at first, for fear of a nerf. But its been around for 2 years and I think if ANet was going to do something, they would have done something a while ago.
jrk247
Well it's never too late, as we have seen from the recent nerf(s) to Soul Reaping. It was untouched for over 2 years. I wouldn't be surprised if Anet is working up a whole new set of skill buffs/nerfs in the near future.
ArKaiN
Soul Reaping was nerfed once people started abusing it on pvp for infinite energy. They weren't doing that before, and it wasn't quite as visible a problem(Infinite energy for PvE never made people go apesh** on forums).
PS is a great spell, I'd go so far as saying the backbone of any hybrid or prot-based monk build. It just won't go away. It *might* see a nerf in therms of duration, but thats it.
I say it'll remain untouched, because it's not unhealthy for the game(much like apply poison, which I think everyone agrees, is as good as or better than most elites).
PS is a great spell, I'd go so far as saying the backbone of any hybrid or prot-based monk build. It just won't go away. It *might* see a nerf in therms of duration, but thats it.
I say it'll remain untouched, because it's not unhealthy for the game(much like apply poison, which I think everyone agrees, is as good as or better than most elites).
KANE OG
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk247
Well it's never too late, as we have seen from the recent nerf(s) to Soul Reaping. It was untouched for over 2 years. I wouldn't be surprised if Anet is working up a whole new set of skill buffs/nerfs in the near future.
Very true. I can see the statement now: Protective Spirit was broken from the beginning, so we fixed it! Yay!
KANE
KANE
aronmt1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx
All this really comes down to, is someone is making more gold then you, and you are jealous. Get over it.
As one of Tideswayer's guild mates, I thought I would chime in... He knows how to farm, and basically taught me how to 55... he knows his stuff better than most of you and does it well... he was just bringing it up as a conversation topic, so don't call him a noob and don't flame him...
And as for being in a farming guild, come farm with us once or twice and find out what it really means to farm...
And as for being in a farming guild, come farm with us once or twice and find out what it really means to farm...
byteme!
I've read this entire thread up to this point. Correct me if I'm wrong but...
7 pages and only 3 people are for the nerfing of PS while everyone else who replied was against a nerf. You can include me in the "against" group.
The people have spoken (in this thread and countless others) and the vast majority are "against" a nerf to PS and for the love of god I hope Anet is listening.
7 pages and only 3 people are for the nerfing of PS while everyone else who replied was against a nerf. You can include me in the "against" group.
The people have spoken (in this thread and countless others) and the vast majority are "against" a nerf to PS and for the love of god I hope Anet is listening.
Guardian of the Light
Look the farming problem is almost perfectly dealt with.
Loot scaling prevents gold flooding into the economy and allows farmers to gain larger amounts of money buy selling high-end itemsto gain what? A nicer skin? Cooler armor? This doesn't make them any stronger then us so why complain. Also the more an area is farmed the more "rare" items from it go into the economy thus decreaing the price and then making farmers move elsewhere (remember what happened with the totem axe?).
Also remember nerfing Prot Spirit will probably do nothing but force famers to change their builds and it's not like it's only monks who use the 55 trick
.
Loot scaling prevents gold flooding into the economy and allows farmers to gain larger amounts of money buy selling high-end itemsto gain what? A nicer skin? Cooler armor? This doesn't make them any stronger then us so why complain. Also the more an area is farmed the more "rare" items from it go into the economy thus decreaing the price and then making farmers move elsewhere (remember what happened with the totem axe?).
Also remember nerfing Prot Spirit will probably do nothing but force famers to change their builds and it's not like it's only monks who use the 55 trick
.
byteme!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TideSwayer
To all of you saying that Protective Spirit is integral to PvE and PvP in non-farming situations, and that changing it would destroy the game, doesn't that exemplify the entire point of this topic, that Prot Spirit is overpowered? If one skill is so powerful that it's needed for many "integral" game things, maybe the game itself needs a rebalancing to prevent the overuse of this skill?
PS is not overpowered. It's just that the Healing Prayers line-up sucks so much we (the players) need a way to meditate damage so our healers can cope with the damage much better.
Let us point out the obvious here. It's really really not hard to apply 100+ dmg to any 60al targets given the right skills. Now multiply this damage output by 3-8 players at the same time. Taking worse case scenario you'll have 8 opponents inflicting 100+ dmg at the same time to the same target. No healer monk can cope with such raw damage without some sort of protection. Seriously if our healing spells were that great and we could cope with such raw instantaneous damage we wouldn't need a spell like PS now would we?
PS is not overpowered. It isn't need everywhere but it balances the game. Healing Prayers is an underpowered attribute when you look at all the insane damage going around. Don't agree with me? Try DoA in NM or HM with 2-3 with 0 Protection and 16 in Healing Prayers with a full 8 man team. Not only that but try to duplicate the time and efficiency PS would've added to your group with only Healing Prayer monks at your disposal.
Let us point out the obvious here. It's really really not hard to apply 100+ dmg to any 60al targets given the right skills. Now multiply this damage output by 3-8 players at the same time. Taking worse case scenario you'll have 8 opponents inflicting 100+ dmg at the same time to the same target. No healer monk can cope with such raw damage without some sort of protection. Seriously if our healing spells were that great and we could cope with such raw instantaneous damage we wouldn't need a spell like PS now would we?
PS is not overpowered. It isn't need everywhere but it balances the game. Healing Prayers is an underpowered attribute when you look at all the insane damage going around. Don't agree with me? Try DoA in NM or HM with 2-3 with 0 Protection and 16 in Healing Prayers with a full 8 man team. Not only that but try to duplicate the time and efficiency PS would've added to your group with only Healing Prayer monks at your disposal.
manitoba1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by aronmt1039
As one of Tideswayer's guild mates, I thought I would chime in... He knows how to farm, and basically taught me how to 55... he knows his stuff better than most of you and does it well... he was just bringing it up as a conversation topic, so don't call him a noob and don't flame him...
And as for being in a farming guild, come farm with us once or twice and find out what it really means to farm... Then as someone who supposedly knows more than most of us. Then let me repeat myself, He doesnt have half a clue to 55 as he thinks, Simply by suggesting that there isnt anyways besides stripping to kill a 55. Cause as someone who really knows 55 stripping in the lest worry for a 55.
And as for being in a farming guild, come farm with us once or twice and find out what it really means to farm... Then as someone who supposedly knows more than most of us. Then let me repeat myself, He doesnt have half a clue to 55 as he thinks, Simply by suggesting that there isnt anyways besides stripping to kill a 55. Cause as someone who really knows 55 stripping in the lest worry for a 55.
phool
I agree, nerf PS. Sure I use it, I actually have 3 pve chars with 55 sets, necro, ele and monk. And no, it wouldn't kill bots. Just set the majority of them back a little. Perhaps I get off a little on seeing noobs cry.
This nerf is simple and only effects 55/105 builds, which are still playable but less bottable.
Protective Spirit 10-1/4-5
For 5...19 seconds, target ally cannot lose more than 10% max Health due to damage from a single attack or Spell, up to a maximum of 30 health.
If the wording's not clear, this will be no change on anyone with more than 300 health however people with less than 300 health will take up to 30 damage per hit.
Counters are irrelevent to bots until there's nowhere in the game which doesn't have them.
This nerf is simple and only effects 55/105 builds, which are still playable but less bottable.
Protective Spirit 10-1/4-5
For 5...19 seconds, target ally cannot lose more than 10% max Health due to damage from a single attack or Spell, up to a maximum of 30 health.
If the wording's not clear, this will be no change on anyone with more than 300 health however people with less than 300 health will take up to 30 damage per hit.
Counters are irrelevent to bots until there's nowhere in the game which doesn't have them.
attackofthecold
Quote:
Originally Posted by phool
I agree, nerf PS. Sure I use it, I actually have 3 pve chars with 55 sets, necro, ele and monk. And no, it wouldn't kill bots. Just set the majority of them back a little. Perhaps I get off a little on seeing noobs cry.
This nerf is simple and only effects 55/105 builds, which are still playable but less bottable.
Protective Spirit 10-1/4-5
For 5...19 seconds, target ally cannot lose more than 10% max Health due to damage from a single attack or Spell, up to a maximum of 30 health.
If the wording's not clear, this will be no change on anyone with more than 300 health however people with less than 300 health will take up to 30 damage per hit.
Counters are irrelevent to bots until there's nowhere in the game which doesn't have them. And yet another person who didn't read my post
You can still do invici Mo/E or E/Mo. With any health between 13-300. Stoneflesh aura reduces damage by 25(12 earth magic) or 30(16 earth magic) so lets say we use Mo/E and have it reduce damage by 25, now were taking 5 damage per hit which can be taken care of with regen just like original 55 builds. To get it to a point there farming with PS is ineffective you would have to make it take a minimum of 40 damage and even then i can think of some skills that could take care of the extra damage not reduced from stoneflesh aura.
This nerf is simple and only effects 55/105 builds, which are still playable but less bottable.
Protective Spirit 10-1/4-5
For 5...19 seconds, target ally cannot lose more than 10% max Health due to damage from a single attack or Spell, up to a maximum of 30 health.
If the wording's not clear, this will be no change on anyone with more than 300 health however people with less than 300 health will take up to 30 damage per hit.
Counters are irrelevent to bots until there's nowhere in the game which doesn't have them. And yet another person who didn't read my post
You can still do invici Mo/E or E/Mo. With any health between 13-300. Stoneflesh aura reduces damage by 25(12 earth magic) or 30(16 earth magic) so lets say we use Mo/E and have it reduce damage by 25, now were taking 5 damage per hit which can be taken care of with regen just like original 55 builds. To get it to a point there farming with PS is ineffective you would have to make it take a minimum of 40 damage and even then i can think of some skills that could take care of the extra damage not reduced from stoneflesh aura.
phool
Quote:
Originally Posted by attackofthecold
And yet another person who didn't read my post You can still do invici Mo/E or E/Mo. With any health between 13-300. Stoneflesh aura reduces damage by 25(12 earth magic) or 30(16 earth magic) so lets say we use Mo/E and have it reduce damage by 25, now were taking 5 damage per hit which can be taken care of with regen just like original 55 builds. To get it to a point there farming with PS is ineffective you would have to make it take a minimum of 40 damage and even then i can think of some skills that could take care of the extra damage not reduced from stoneflesh aura.
I don't think you read my post tbh . I'm not making any claims of making it impossible to farm. (I don't actually want that)
You can still do invici Mo/E or E/Mo. With any health between 13-300. Stoneflesh aura reduces damage by 25(12 earth magic) or 30(16 earth magic) so lets say we use Mo/E and have it reduce damage by 25, now were taking 5 damage per hit which can be taken care of with regen just like original 55 builds. To get it to a point there farming with PS is ineffective you would have to make it take a minimum of 40 damage and even then i can think of some skills that could take care of the extra damage not reduced from stoneflesh aura.
I don't think you read my post tbh . I'm not making any claims of making it impossible to farm. (I don't actually want that)
Elf of Darkwood
stop trying to find retarded ways to try and kill a very well balanced spell. I mean, seriously, did anyone start out with a monk just to play as a monk?
Did anyone ever stray too far from Noobville and say "Oh, s***!!! I just got killed in two f***ing hits!!!"
there is NOTHING wrong with ProtSpirit
Did anyone ever stray too far from Noobville and say "Oh, s***!!! I just got killed in two f***ing hits!!!"
there is NOTHING wrong with ProtSpirit
attackofthecold
Quote:
Originally Posted by phool
I don't think you read my post tbh . I'm not making any claims of making it impossible to farm. (I don't actually want that)
You said it would make it less botable... Even if they nerfed it that way its still very easy to bot with. Its just casting Healing breeze + Stoneflesh aura instead of just Healing breese or SoA. It also depends on how they bots are made. If there made out of some autoit script or some macro then it would affect from the fact it could miss cast or die from aggroing to many mobs with the regen making up for extra damage taken. Or if its made the real way(Someone sniffing the packets that GW client gets and sends and making a program to act like a GW client except to bot.) then it wont affect it at all.
. I'm not making any claims of making it impossible to farm. (I don't actually want that)
You said it would make it less botable... Even if they nerfed it that way its still very easy to bot with. Its just casting Healing breeze + Stoneflesh aura instead of just Healing breese or SoA. It also depends on how they bots are made. If there made out of some autoit script or some macro then it would affect from the fact it could miss cast or die from aggroing to many mobs with the regen making up for extra damage taken. Or if its made the real way(Someone sniffing the packets that GW client gets and sends and making a program to act like a GW client except to bot.) then it wont affect it at all.
dts720666
Please ANet, do not nerf PS! I only now started having fun in GW because of my 55 monk. If that gets nerfed too, I don't know what I will do.
Truly, I have never had as much fun in a game as when I am 55 soloing. Please don't nerf it.
Truly, I have never had as much fun in a game as when I am 55 soloing. Please don't nerf it.
Sk8tborderx
Quote:
Originally Posted by dts720666
Please ANet, do not nerf PS! I only now started having fun in GW because of my 55 monk. If that gets nerfed too, I don't know what I will do.
Truly, I have never had as much fun in a game as when I am 55 soloing. Please don't nerf it. They will not nerf it, these same threads have been popping up every couple months for the last 20 months or so.
Truly, I have never had as much fun in a game as when I am 55 soloing. Please don't nerf it. They will not nerf it, these same threads have been popping up every couple months for the last 20 months or so.
phool
Quote:
Originally Posted by attackofthecold
You said it would make it less botable...
Well not to belabour a point or anything but I didn't even say that. Merely force change, aka set them back a little.
attackofthecold
Quote:
Originally Posted by phool
Well not to belabour a point or anything but I didn't even say that. Merely force change, aka set them back a little.
If the bot owner saw the update as soon as it happened it would take them maybe 5-10 mins to edit all there bots to do the new run skills instead. Or maybe a bit longer than that to add in buying the new skills. If its done the real way it would take maybe 10-20mins to edit it. So no, it wouldn't set them back at all.
sky sliverwolf
K all A-net has to do to get rid of bots is get rid of the grim cesta. But they don't, why ? Well some small brained person at anet said, "well we still make money off teh game when the botters buy it, we ban them, they buy it again."
But the number one thing is: All you ppl that buy gold online HAVE to stop!!! But that would be too easy.
Imo it'll never b nerf. This skill is a backbone to every monk pvp build.
But the number one thing is: All you ppl that buy gold online HAVE to stop!!! But that would be too easy.
Imo it'll never b nerf. This skill is a backbone to every monk pvp build.
Jcon
Wanna fix it make prot spirit work like this....
Prot spirit does the same thing it does now unless your max health is below 200 health, in which case prot spirit has no effect. granted elementalists would pair stoneflesh, with prot spirit to keep it, but atleast it's alittle more difficult to farm now.
Remember in the next game they plan to have pve only skills which god knows how overpowered these will be lol.
Prot spirit does the same thing it does now unless your max health is below 200 health, in which case prot spirit has no effect. granted elementalists would pair stoneflesh, with prot spirit to keep it, but atleast it's alittle more difficult to farm now.
Remember in the next game they plan to have pve only skills which god knows how overpowered these will be lol.
attackofthecold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcon
Prot spirit does the same thing it does now unless your max health is below 200 health, in which case prot spirit has no effect. granted elementalists would pair stoneflesh, with prot spirit to keep it, but atleast it's alittle more difficult to farm now.
Remember in the next game they plan to have pve only skills which god knows how overpowered these will be lol.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by sky sliverwolf
K all A-net has to do to get rid of bots is get rid of the grim cesta.
Ok so they take out the -50 hp offhand, now you have 105 hp which works fine for the new SoA and Shielding hands monk. After 1 hit with SoA it will absorb 10 damage. So you only have 5 damage each cast which can be healed when you cast Shielding hands.
phool
Quote:
Originally Posted by attackofthecold
If the bot owner saw the update as soon as it happened it would take them maybe 5-10 mins to edit all there bots to do the new run skills instead. Or maybe a bit longer than that to add in buying the new skills. If its done the real way it would take maybe 10-20mins to edit it. So no, it wouldn't set them back at all.
Actually to run stoneflesh aura+SoJ would require buying 2 campaigns which no commerical bot owner would be willing to do if they could possibly help it. It may not affect 'casual' botters which are normal players botting while they sleep or whatever as much. Of course they could rely on a different method of killing to SoJ but almost nothing else can be used on as basic programs.
There are e/me Factions only botters who farm kirin and dragon moss for example, not all would be affected. The prophecies only 55s in citadel on the other hand would be require a major overhaul at the very least.
Golestandt
Quote:
Originally Posted by attackofthecold
|
Prot spirit does the same thing it does now unless your max health is below 200 health
So when you have 60% dp and your max health is 250 you'll still take 25 damage regardless if your health is 250 or 75, since it's based on max health and not current health.
If your below 200 hp (or whichever amount is appropriate) PS becomes overpowered and looses its effect, I like this idea.
If your below 200 hp (or whichever amount is appropriate) PS becomes overpowered and looses its effect, I like this idea.
Burning Blade
Quote:
Beta Sprite
I don't like the idea of nerfing the skill. I'd rather they made it hard to farm anything automatically. Make it require intelligence to get to the enemies (like getting to the 'Destroy the Ungrateful Slaves' quest), and if you can get to easy mobs with little trouble, make them more random and dangerous to the common builds (like putting some Shatter Enchantment casters in the mobs outside of Granite).
If they were going to nerf PS, the only way to do it without killing the skill for normal use would be to make it only reduce damage down to ~20-30 damage. That way, 55s would... Meh, I guess they would use 200hp builds with SoA and regen... Yeah, I don't think there is a 'good' way to nerf PS to stop farming.
My vote is on increasing the intelligence required to get to the farming spots.
If they were going to nerf PS, the only way to do it without killing the skill for normal use would be to make it only reduce damage down to ~20-30 damage. That way, 55s would... Meh, I guess they would use 200hp builds with SoA and regen... Yeah, I don't think there is a 'good' way to nerf PS to stop farming.
My vote is on increasing the intelligence required to get to the farming spots.
Miss Filth
I personally think that the 55 monk is a great build - its very clever in the way it works. However, I do not think you can blame bots for "the economy" as i find all the pricing fairly reasonable - FoW armour, for example, being the best armour in the game, is the most expensive, by far.
I also think that people should stop complaining about bots.
Protective spirit isnt the root of all evil in my opinion, it is just a good skill which is used frequently by pve farmers. 90% reduction of damage still means 10 hits would kill you. And anyway - I think team farming is a lot more fun.
And, just think a sec, how long has the 55 monk build been around? it was around when I first started playing 16 months ago. So u would think that, if anet was unhappy with PS, they would have nerfed it in the (at least) 16 months that I have been playing and it hasnt been nerfed.
And I think ther is still an extremely old build which used protective bond.
I also think that people should stop complaining about bots.
Protective spirit isnt the root of all evil in my opinion, it is just a good skill which is used frequently by pve farmers. 90% reduction of damage still means 10 hits would kill you. And anyway - I think team farming is a lot more fun.
And, just think a sec, how long has the 55 monk build been around? it was around when I first started playing 16 months ago. So u would think that, if anet was unhappy with PS, they would have nerfed it in the (at least) 16 months that I have been playing and it hasnt been nerfed.
And I think ther is still an extremely old build which used protective bond.
attackofthecold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golestandt
So when you have 60% dp and your max health is 250 you'll still take 25 damage regardless if your health is 250 or 75, since it's based on max health and not current health.
If your below 200 hp (or whichever amount is appropriate) PS becomes overpowered and looses its effect, I like this idea. Eh that is true -.- Was tired when i posted that :P But if your health is ~250 and you take a deep wound which takes off 20% of your health. You would get down to 200 health. Which would make it worthless =/
If your below 200 hp (or whichever amount is appropriate) PS becomes overpowered and looses its effect, I like this idea. Eh that is true -.- Was tired when i posted that :P But if your health is ~250 and you take a deep wound which takes off 20% of your health. You would get down to 200 health. Which would make it worthless =/
Age
Protective Spirit is fine as it is it doesn't any changes to it what so ever.Anet will never touch PoS if they do there will be hell to pay.
Waldir
Want to make it harder for 55's? just get rid of the -50 off hand and make the runes not take health away if they are the same, for example if u have 2 healing runes u will only lose 75 health insted of 150, but than again i really dotn want the 55 build nerfed casue i use it myself :P
Melody Cross
...
Look around everyone. Where are we? What sub-forum is this that we are posting in?
You may not like farming builds. you may not like playing them or the fact that they are in the game. But there is an obvious market for farming, and solo farming too. Farmers are in every MMO I've ever played, in most that i've ever heard of (and probably all of them, I just didn't see any threads and stuff about farmers).
Why nerf monk farms? It won't stop botters. They'll just move on to something else. Next you'll be saying that warriors are too easy to farm with, so they should be nerfed.
I don't know the answer to bots. Neither do you. Neither does Anet or any other MMO. if any of us did, there wouldn't be any bots.
Please stop calling for nerfs to Prot Spirit though. The ones you are suggesting are just...they'd break it. They'd break it really really bad. And the reason why it is so essential to PvP is because we have nothing else that comes close to doing what it does as efficiently as it can. Not even SB.
You ought not be calling for monk farming nerfs anyway. It really--honestly--will not solve this problem. Take one look around this forum. there are people making 3k in gold alone in 10 minutes...with no monk skills on their bar. Nerfing monks--or monk farming--is just treating a symptom. We should be seeking a cure for the botter disease.
I respect your anger about bots and I share it. but you are pointing your rage in the wrong direction. Instead of posting threads like this, help Anet. Report bots. Think up ways to catch them and prove they are bots.
I guess thats it.
GGs
Look around everyone. Where are we? What sub-forum is this that we are posting in?
You may not like farming builds. you may not like playing them or the fact that they are in the game. But there is an obvious market for farming, and solo farming too. Farmers are in every MMO I've ever played, in most that i've ever heard of (and probably all of them, I just didn't see any threads and stuff about farmers).
Why nerf monk farms? It won't stop botters. They'll just move on to something else. Next you'll be saying that warriors are too easy to farm with, so they should be nerfed.
I don't know the answer to bots. Neither do you. Neither does Anet or any other MMO. if any of us did, there wouldn't be any bots.
Please stop calling for nerfs to Prot Spirit though. The ones you are suggesting are just...they'd break it. They'd break it really really bad. And the reason why it is so essential to PvP is because we have nothing else that comes close to doing what it does as efficiently as it can. Not even SB.
You ought not be calling for monk farming nerfs anyway. It really--honestly--will not solve this problem. Take one look around this forum. there are people making 3k in gold alone in 10 minutes...with no monk skills on their bar. Nerfing monks--or monk farming--is just treating a symptom. We should be seeking a cure for the botter disease.
I respect your anger about bots and I share it. but you are pointing your rage in the wrong direction. Instead of posting threads like this, help Anet. Report bots. Think up ways to catch them and prove they are bots.
I guess thats it.
GGs
MercenaryKnight
If they do nerf protective spirit, millions will buy those golden eggs to raise attribute to 1 and use protective bond like they used it before, or figure out how to use an outside source (bonder with protective bond spamming blessed signet with essence bond and a bip to keep energy up). Someone will always figure out a new way to farm.
[email protected]
If your ingenious theory ever comes true, I'll quit and laugh at ANERF.
Anet nerfing PS would be like, nerfing itself....
Anet nerfing PS would be like, nerfing itself....
Solus Spartan
If Anet wants to nerf PS, I demand terms.
If PS is nerfed, Gaile Gray gets fired, thats fair?
If PS is nerfed, Gaile Gray gets fired, thats fair?