Heroes Ruined Guild Wars?

Hello.
I am not that old here, been playing for 8 months and I'd like to say, After Nightfall and the heroes system came out, people group alot less for missions.
I hate playing with henchies/Heroes, i like playing with actual human.
I get the feeling that now people solo the whole game and be proud of it, showing of that he solo'ed Mission X without players, just heroes.
I for myself play MMO game to interact with people, to do missions with people to do quests with people.but now Guild Wars is much of a single player game with people around you, you can only interact with them in town by a sentence starts with WTB or WTS.
I wish there was no heroes on henchies in this game just like WoW, you actually need a group to get somethings done. Guilds are way more usefull in PvE there.Untill now i can't find 1 good reason to join a guild instead of a chat room.
I am so disappointed now, I like the system of this game, the idea that you can't get better than me by playing for 10 hours+ a day or ebaying money."That's why i left WoW".But the game is just getting more boring everyday.

Heroes are both an enchantment and a hex. On one hand, I no longer feel the joy of working with a bunch of people to complete a mission. On the other hand, I no longer feel the pains associated with it. Yet, because of heroes, PuGs now suck more than ever, as all the skilled players just use heroes and henchies. Yet, with 3 chapters, finding a group for your mission would have been way too frustrating without heroes.

Heroes are the only reason I came back, and am still playing today.

The great thing about Guild Wars is that it doesn't force you to team with other people. I enjoy playing the game with a friend or two, but I do not want to team up with other people, and in my opinion, there's nothing worse in an online game than when you're forced to team up with people.

For one thing, most random people you team up with, suck at the game. They won't listen, they won't co-ordinate, they don't know how to play, etc. Most of the time it is just easier to take henchmen/heroes along with you, because actual people will only drag you down. Sorry if that sounds arrogant, but I can't count the amount of times I failed Thunderhead Keep because people were running around like headless chickens, or you get a Monk that tries to tank, or a Ranger that can't grasp the concept of luring over enemies.

With the massive amount of areas we have now, finding team mates in certain areas is very difficult. Many of the Factions missions inparticular are deserted. With Eye of the North coming out soon, this will only get worse. Heroes are needed to fill in these gaps, sometimes you just can't find people, and henchmen just aren't good enough to complete some missions. Not to mention how time consuming it can be just to find a single Monk for a mission, it's much easier just to take along Dunkoro, who can do just as good a job as most human monks out there.

If you enjoy only playing with other humans, then continue to do so, but at this point in Guild Wars' life, Heroes are needed, and most of us who play the game only using heroes/mostly using heroes, would never team up with others anyway. Heroes haven't stopped people from teaming up, they've only given us people who don't like to, a reason to continue playing the game.

Agreed 100%.

Nope. Heroes saved Guild Wars.

Horrible players ruined Guild Wars and then Heroes came along and saved it. Guild Wars is simply too complex for the average person to play properly; sad but true.

If ya don't wanna constantly be partying with horrible players with skillbars like those below - which are taken from real players fairly far into the GW games- (and Guild/friends are not handy) and thus failing horribly for no good reason due to said horrible players...






...gotta go with Heroes.

That last build made my day Navaros.

LoL at those builds.

I think the problem started with Factions. People got to lvl20 so fast, they thought they can actually play the game well. They were mistaken. Yet they still call everyone noobs when people tell them how crap their skill bars are.

Heroes > Most PvE PUGs

Ermm... guys, wtf? You all say how Heroes saved GW, how you can now solo the mission and quests, how you dont have to worry about pugs anymore, and stuff like that... Well, if you are so un-social, dont like to party with others, like to solo everything... then go play a single player game, ffs! And dont let the door hit you, like somebody said before

GW is a singleplayer if the individual player chooses for it to be. It is stated so and sold as such on the back of the Guild Wars box.

Heroes haven't stopped people from playing with each other in PvE. It has allowed people to run even endgame areas with less real players while still keeping a strong group. I've found PvE to be more accessable with heroes, while I find myself taking pickups less and less.

Because, seriously, this group is stronger, faster, and more consistent than anything you'll pick up in the international districts:



Sure you can find players that are stronger than Zhed or Dunkoro...but you have to sort through a bunch of abysmal players to find them, not to mention people who leave mid-mission, wipe the group running for a chest or gold, or go AFK unannounced for long periods of time. Why mess around with them when Zhed is always ready to follow targets and otherwise stand where you need him to?

For all the flak I'll give it, Guild Wars is a "hard" PvE game. Skill selection is really deep and complicated for a lot of players, and if you don't understand the game on the skill level things become a whole lot more difficult on the execution level. Most other MMOs that require grouping, ala WoW, are absurdly simple and as a result accessable. Playing through the game solo requires virtually nothing from the player; the only variable is how long it takes you to achieve the goal. Even endgame raids require very little from most players. Sure someone has to figure out how to finish an encounter, but for most people it's a matter of following directions and using a skill or two...the real limitations are more gear than people's ability to follow orders (one would hope).

Contrast that with Guild Wars, where they've removed clear gear progression (which allows you to brute force encounters no matter how bad you are) and requires some minimal amount of execution and understanding of the character build system to be successful. The combination really allows certain builds and players to excel, much more than the WoW system does...with the consequence of those who don't 'get it' being comparatively that much further behind.

Peace,
-CxE

people that dont wanna team still wont when heroes r gone

PUGs had a crap reputation way before Factions came out let alone Nightfall.

the reason people grabbed the heroes so fast is BECAUSE they had been burned so many times by jerks in thegame the heroes were a dream come true.

finally i dont have to hope this group wont be total moronic jerks.

the so called COMMUNITY was what killed the PUG and they did it long before heroes came

i dont think heros ruind gw. too manny proffesions did...and loot scaling...and too manny campaigns did

I just got protector on Tyria this week, and Cantha starting yesterday and finished it up today. With just heroes and henchies, no sir, they did not ruin GW, they gave me what I needed. Team mates who listen to me, can fulfill a proper build, and aren't annoying.

It's the other way around really. Ever played a monk? Logging in, going to an outpost and within seconds you'd have 3 party-invites. None of them would even ask or talk to you save for the occasional "join plz". I'd wager that most people who enjoy playing with others are actually in a guild already and play with their guildies or friends. It's the people left with PUGs that are the unsocial people, the clampers, the ragequitters, the horrid skillsbars that, when called on them, cry "n00b", the people who-are-so-funny-let's-draw-penises-on-the-minimap or ping it for the duration of the mission. It's those people unwilling to learn the game, unwilling to improve...
Heroes, the henches before them, saved the average and above average players from those people, when no guildies happen to be around.
Ofcourse, the "good PUG" probably happens now and again, nice chatting, breezing trough a mission, ultimately good clean fun; those usually end with people being added to f-lists or guild invites being sent...

It's about enjoying the game and those of you who say "heroes killed pugs and thus gw", I'm sorry to say, you probably suck; thus killing the enjoyment of the game for others. Are you seriously telling people they must PUG because the aforementioned "bad apples" are somehow entitled to a group? fine, you do it then. I'll stick with guildies, friends and hero/hench, to preserve my fun...

I find the only people who complain about heroes are the same incompetent poo-heads that get kicked from every group they join.

Heroes allow you to form a small party of non-optimal professions and still do the mission/quest.

When I started playing about 15 months ago, parties were hard to form. While there was less skillbar dissection, players only wanted the preferred professions and builds in the party. If your necro wasn't an MM or your monk was a smiter, if your ele played earth rather than fire, or you had a mesmer of any kind - no invite for you.

It's still the same, except now everyone wants you to ping your skillbar so they can explain how you are using the wrong skills according to the "experts" and anything outside a cookie-cutter build is unacceptable.

I prefer to collect one or two real players and, using our heroes to fill out the roster, have a great time. It doesn't matter anymore if the real players are unwanted professions or are using non-approved skills, the heroes don't care.

In soviet Russia, Guildwars ruins heroes!

Ah the old Yakov Smirnoff, Russian reversal...always a good choice.

Ensign you win the thread with that picture...absolutely priceless!!

^^ agreed!

i've found that most people who QQ about heroes are so bad at the game they need someone to hold their hand for every quest/mission. either that or they're just hellbent on socializing, which i find very annoying and distracting. moar killy, less talky!

tip 1 - join a guild, play with them
tip 2 - wiki is your friend

Heroes made GW better. The people complaining like the OP are obviously the ones running the lame ass builds in PVE and think 'OMG my heroez sux with mending!!!111'.

Pugs and the general pug community destroyed GW by being terrible players.

LFG need 2x tanks, 2x monks 2x nuke 1x mm 1x battery

badluck if youre a ranger, derv, assasin, paragon, mesmer, etc.

well, if you wan't to play missions with real people then thats what your guild is for. heroes are handy for the odd times guildies are not available without having to resort to people so clueless as to call you a noob for telling them to take mending off their healing bar.

If you don't have a good enough guild to go out and play the game together then get a new one.

Heroes are what allowed me to complete many of the missions. Many places in Prophecies and Factions are ghost towns and do you really want to wait an hour to form a party only to fail in 5 mins? I know I don't. Plus, sometimes I just want to do stuff and don't want to wait for more guildies or allies to come on.

Heroes were specifically responsible for the masters reward I got in Eternal Grove. I had tried numerous times to PuG it and finally gave up. Through flagging and making builds I knew would work on heroes it was far easier than it was to tolerate the frustration PuG's often produce. This also says nothing for the fact that there are usually not (m)any people hanging out to do the mission.

When I play with my twin bro, our six hero two man team is balanced and efficient and communication is a snap. As a matter of fact, I think Shooters give me more angst that GW does nowadays...

Heroes gave people the option of avoiding stupid players and gave the chance for casuals to get through missions in their own time.

The biggest downfall IMO is loot scaling and the gradual destruction of solo play. This just made it harder for casuals to get gold, who then look to shifty merchants for their money.

I do occasionally team with people for missions, often when i'm not in a hurry to complete it, or maybe just for laughs.
Fine example being the A/R in Naphui who took a lvl15 pet but no comfort animal (wasted slot on charm!) and who liked taking serious damage.

Another example would be the lvl17 mesmer in Vizunah foreign who charged ahead throughout the mission and kept dying and aggroing. Little did he know that i disabled my monk heroes res skills eventually, lol.

I'm saddened to say it but that is the only way to get through to some idiotic players. You keep f***ing with us, we will stop rezzing you. It is especially sweet when this happens and then something valuable drops for him. Then you wait for 10 minutes for the item to open up for everyone and have a race to see who has the fastest trigger finger.

Your average PUG:



By the way, find out where these pics were taken.

Agreed 110%.

I just wish one day Anet will let us 7 heros instead of 3 ;p
(at least let us add another 4 heros n let em do their own things like hench, that way we can at least pick the skills, attributes, etc)

More like Heroes SAVED Guild Wars.

Before Nightfall came out, unless you just so happen to be running one of those Tank/Monk/Nuker/Battery builds you won't get into any reasonable groups. You are just rotting at the outpost.

With Heroes, they fill in the roles of your teammates when you can't find a party. Now, you can actually play the game. Heroes make GW much better.

Looks like Dragon's Lair to me =]

Anyway, I like to think of heroes as being a great convenience and option because while I'd still rather party with real people, at least I get something close to that just in case I can't find a particular profession.

Whether or not Heroes/Henchmen ruined the game for you depends on your position.

Before Heroes I was henching my way through the game. I don't belong to a guild that is active in Guild Wars (they play WoW, I don't)...so it was either henchmen or PUGS...and since most PUG's suck...it was henchmen most of the time. So heroes didn't ruin a damn thing for me when they were introduced they only added to my experience playing guild wars.

This game is all about options....giving people a choice of how they want to play. Casual players who don't mind playing by themselves can get just as much done as a hardcore person who plays with his big guild (with a few exceptions). The people who hate henchmen/heroes but aren't in a guild (a guild that they can play with) is an extremely small segment of the community for a reason...the game simply does not cater to those people. If you are one of those people...find a guild to play with, wait for a good PUG to form, or leave. It's that simple. The devs obviously don't mind all the people who play the game with only heroes/henchies as they have only added to the options...so that's not about to change as it drew in a significant portion of the community. I would not be here if it weren't for the ability to play the game alone, I would have left long ago.

okay i almost agree with you there except for one thing. heros still count as other peopel for me. I dont play PvE because i hate having to use multiple charactors period in 100% of the game. Lets face it. whne you useing 7 Ai players to do teh game for you its no longer a MMORPG its a RTS with a shitty control system or as Anet deems it, a CORPG or w/e. Either way, it sucks, I want to do the fighting not slightly participate while 4 henchman do it for me and three others having to heal the massive dmg comeing in.

THeheros didn't kill anything, this is how GW ahas always been. Theres a reason i switched to PvP verion after factions. The ffact i can't just walk out of town and deliever some whoop ass on a lonely monster makes the game boring. Diablo 2 hack and slash games have it right. save the really hard monsters and having to work with 8 other players for really special boss fights and end game missions with high loot. Leave 95% of the gameplay semi casual were 1 player can feasibly complete it byhimself.

I wanna walk around and enjoy the fighting animations using tactics like blocking doors and otehr stuff same as gruops to fight monsters. i shouldn't have to hide behind 7 AI players or 7 real ones to complete anything past lvl 2-3 ,missions.

Oh and the charactor deveopment sucks in GW all i is is skill unlocks. Thats also boring when you've a;ready got max unlocks from PvP. half the fun of MMORPGs is helping a weaker player out or getting in a gruop with a high level kick ass player and watching him own.

teams should really be left to boss encounters and PvP they dont belong in casual RPG play and idont feal like playing Command and Conquer Fantasy sstyle just so i can walk from one town to the next. Thats simply frustrating and boring.

Thanks everyone for reply.
And thanks to who ever insulted me because he's insecure.
MMO ments to be with people, there's bad players in every game, not only guildwars and the game survives,I play a monk, and i know how many bad monks are around there, but that doesn't mean all of them are bad.
being a monk with heroes is awfull,boring and hard, because you are not actually attacking a group, you have to select mobs everytime and ctrl+space, then select the other.
I find it more enjoyable when you play with people, good people that understand me and make me feel that i am really playing a MMO game.
If people group more i'd have a reason to join a guild.
Can anyone here give me 1 reason to join a guild in PvE? there isn't!

I say keep heroes and drop henchmen. They're god awful anyways, and this keeps people in groups, but ones that are practically small. It's easy enough to find one person at any outpost who's a decent player and up for whatever you're doing.

QFT! Well, except the hard part. I made a monk because: 1) Everyone grouped with monks, so no waiting, 2) I've got fast reflexes, and 3) I like helping others out.

I specifically made my monk to help my guildies on missions where monks were difficult to acquire, and for helping pugs out. When Nightfall came out, I rapidly went from MVP to Just Another Person With A 4 Over Their Head. Heroes never thank me for keeping everyone up without effort, or exclaim in astonishment over a particularly close heal, or sigh with relief when those hexes and conditions fall from their eyes.

Plus, since people have a readily available alternative to pugging, when I try to get everyone to coordinate their bars, I generally get a couple of droppers as they are simply unwilling to take five or ten minutes to synch their shit with the rest of the team. No one wants to make the effort.

So now, when I'm not infusing my way towards my wolfie, I wander over to various proph missions and help people along, simply because I enjoy grouping with others and listening to them.

It isn't because I'm in a shit guild (I'm not) or because I'm a horny pedophile (again not true) looking for his next snack (I do love snacks - PBJ FTW!). It is because I'm genuinely a people person, and I like meeting new people. What the hell is the point of charging through a game at breakneck pace all alone? "Oh sweet, I upgraded my avatar's clothing to the latest fashion! And I got this new minipetdogthing that I call Tinkerbell! Big sunglasses ftw!"

That's hot. Maybe some of you "Guild Wars was d0med by the community" people should go look in the mirror.

Nope, I think I will stay and play with heroes and henchies. If you like to party with people so much, go to a rave.



Heroes FTW!

you can't find one good reason ? let me give you one :

to group with real people instead of henchies/heroes

seriously, since when should a reason be a necessity ? you enjoy playing with real people ? Then join a guild and play with real people.

some people do enjoy playing with AI instead of real people, cause AI > human stupidity. Why should you remove that for those people ? It's kind of selfish to force people into playing the game like you want it, isn't it ? Find like-minded people and enjoy the game, it's just that easy.