The Changing Face of GW's Player Base

Also, outside of the Guardian title track, there's really no reward for replaying missions, unless you desire bringing more characters through and getting titles for them. For a little while now, even though I have nine characters, I've been focusing on just the one. Mostly its because I'd rather build titles up on her than play more characters through. I also dont really have an urge at the moment to manage heroes on multiple characters the way its currently set up. Guardian has been great fun to pursue. May move into Vanquisher next.

New players likely feel the desire to "catch up", and farming is the way to do that. Rewards through mission play per time spent arent that high.

Anet should consider better rewards for mission replay if they wish to see people replaying them. People move on to farm, work on titles or move into PvP simply because they have done the missions quite a few times already and, add to that, once done on a given character there's no tangible reward for doing them again on that character. Certainly helping out friends and guildies is an aside from this, but generally speaking its why people move slowly away from continued mission play into other areas of the game.

All that said, pursuing Protector and then Guardian titles have been the most fun I have had in the game. For me, I'm just not pursuing them on multiple characters anymore. The timing of GWEN is good for me as I'll have all that to do again very shortly there. Having taken a fair bit of time off from the game these past months meant I have had enough things to do one just one character for a while here. For others, they were ready for GWEN quite some time ago. Really not surprised at all so many would rathr farm, work on titles, chest run, PvP etc. Frequent new content is key to keeping people playing the non-farming, non-title pursuing side of the game, as well as rewards during the story aspect of it.

Maybe the OP and some "OP's friends" should group and search for a RP guild, which is I think their kind of play.
In a RP guild, Lore, missions, Fantastic goals and saving the world actually matters.
I think you're just in the wrong guild, or trying to play with the wrong people.
Some people like grind. Some people like competition and do PvP. Some people just like to chat and take GW like a fantastic MSN messenger. And some people need to be immersed in a fantastic lore with people sharing this immersion.
Just move your ass a little bit to find the people you need.

according to JEFF STRAIN you are full of it.

from interview it stated just the oppodite that GW started as a PVE game.

so according to this you are simply wrong

"Murdering people" lmao. I'm not even going to try arguing that because it's not worthy of it.

Anyway, why are you so upset about other people doing what they like to do? It's a game, it's about having fun, not about doing what some people think the game is about.

And the only thing that's changed over time is the addition of heroes, which lets players who want to do the storyline and quests on their own without depending upon annoying pugs. So you don't hear about it because these people are busy actually playing the game. Farmers and pvpers are far more visible because they are more concerned with changes to the game.

Regardless, people have been pvping and farming since the beginning of the game. The 55 monk build didn't become popular only yesterday. And any game with a system for money and trading will result in some farming because people will want to get certain items for themselves, which may cost a lot due to rarity. So not only have pvping and farming been around a long time, they are part of the game's structure.

Also, consider that there hasn't been a new chapter in a long time. Most people are finished going through the storyline several times. So they move on to working on other things, or they take a break until the expansion is released.

I dont understand this at all....

In Sudan, Africa, millions of Africans in Darfur have been killed in cold blood by the ruling Arabian Government. It is estimated that in another 5 years there will be another Holocoast in Sudan and East Africa.

Did these hard hearted killers play Guild Wars and decide to go kill people because they thought HA was fun? NO.

You wish the people controlling the characters no harm when you play Guild Wars PvP, you see them as other competitive people playing a GAME controlling pixels casting magical spells at each other. Never have I said "Wow, PvP is fun in Guild Wars, I wish I couldve been born during the medieval crusades!"

Violence has always been a part of societies, in America we paintball, watch boxing and football, play way worse games then Guild Wars (ala Diablo 2 ) and still no one has sudden urges to go on mass murders. (except a few phychos)

But, it is your opinion, and I can respect that, I just want you to know PvP players are not bloodthirsty lunatics, just competitve people.

Its aparent that you must have quit reading after that sentance you highlighted. Read the first half of the next sentance and youll find out why.

If you think killing another player in HA or GvG is wrong you should think that killing a Jade Brotherhood or Corsair is wrong too. After all it's a human being killing another human being. Is that alright just because the Jade Brotherhood is AI controlled?

In a RPG everyone there is part of the world, in a table top RPG, like D&D, you ONLY kill human controlled adversaries since there's the Master or Storyteller controlling them always.

In the first page someone mentioned Chess and that's a wonderful comparison. Would you feel guilty after knocking over your adversarie King? You just killed him. No one here like PvPing because we're killing other real people, we enjoy it because real people can be a real challenge, can be unpredictable, different from the AI. AI won't send half of their group to fight you while the other half go to your base without you noticing and kill your Guild Lord, and that's a REALLY simple example of what a real human mind can think of.

It's not about killing it's about competition, just like soccer, basketball, racing and any other competitive sport you can think of. And yes, competition IS about being better than others but that's not wrong, if you don't like it thats absolutely ok, but it's not WRONG. Killing is just the way to win a PvP match in Guild Wars, and in fact you're not really killing anyone, even if Guild Wars were real life, since the guy you just knocked over will be ressed in a couple of seconds alive, healthy and if he's a good loser he may even say "GG pal you're good. Mind giving me some advice on how to improve my game play?".

Nobody hit the Enter Game button in HA thinking "MWAHAUHAUAH time to kill some American bastards, i can't kill them in real life but i'll show them in GW.". Sometimes there is some cursing and some hating just like any other competitive game, it's healthy competition.

No. Healthy competition fosters sportsmanship and growth of a person outside of the competition into real life. You carry over skills that make you a better person, wether it be sacrifice, willingness to work hard or a winning attitude.

I fail to see how many of these things can be applied to GW pvp, considering the attitude of many pvp players towards each other and to non-pvpers.

.......What the hell?

this quote here in some way reminds me of jack thompson

PUGs took a pretty hard hit when heroes were released. The problem (as everyone already knows) is simply that a majority of players don't have a clue on what to do. It's not often that you run into good players in pve, and that's cause pve doesn't really give a hard enough challenge to get people to use a build that works (that is untill Hard mode came). I myself was glad when heroes were released....the horrors of puging ended...impatient/unskilled players ruining missions at the worst times, etc. But, I'd take a good human group over a henches anyday. Besides the fact that hero/henching pretty much everything is pretty damn boring, a good human team is much more effective.

As for pvp, I love it. It seems you like a challenge, but I doubt I can convince you how awesome pvp can be. When I pvp, I don't hold grudges or start typing all kinds of idiotic insults like most people, it's all in good fun. Compared to pve, it's more of a challenge and the builds you use are much more different and complex. I do both pve and pvp (mainly pve though), but most of the time in pve, you can beat pretty much any mission with some random build that uses heavy aoe damage. It gets tiring after a while so I switch between pve and pvp often.

The farming thing is somethin I agree on. Out of all the things in GW, I find it to be the most boring and braindead. I used to farm on a rare occasion to buy some armor I might want, but I always hated it. I've managed to get enough gold from random pve stuff to avoid farming for a while though

Btw, I saw you yesterday in Ruins of Surmia. A friend and I are both working on Hard mode in tyria but are also having problems finding a guild with enough (good) players willing to join us =/

While many others are actually polite and friendly, don't exxagerate. I play a lot of TA and there's a lot of people that just congratulate the enemy with their victory because they know they were outplayed.

If I would be pissed off for every time I get owned in GW pvp, LOL

I wish daily that we where allowed ffa pve in lions arch so i could eviscerate annoying pvers who whine that soul reaping needs a buff

guildwars was not made for pve, the devs were just stupid and listened to all the pve whiners on gwonline and here and made the game turn into shit, for example "don't give uax because my pve character worked real hard on a game that wasn't supposed to have grind to get his skills, which i won't even use for pvp." thanks alot.

i think my friend hit it on the head when we were messing around in gvg where he said "if your guild reaches a certain low point the game should just disband your guild, say sorry you are bad, better luck next time"

this is a bit extreme but still the point is made, in PvE you will (except for in a very few extreme cases) never get better at this game from just playing, will never gain any knowledge as to how to become more tactical etc because the opposing team (dumb mobs of char) are not getting any better. Because your terrible searing flames assassin with high critical strikes is getting the job done perfectly fine, why change? i see way too many people turned off by pvp because they are just so stubborn as to not realise they are bad, and the only way to get better is to step aside and understand that there may be a better way.

w/e the pvp aspect of this game is fading away as there is such a low skill level to the current play, too little to late i guess.

Dungeons and Dragons online, A few others as well.

Stole the words right out of my mouth

I'm not against video game violence totally (nor do i care who this attorney is or what he cares about). If I was I obviously wouldn't be playing GW or Oblivion. Non-violence in a violent world.. of course it isn't possible. However I am drawing a line between the AI machine-like.. non-living ..monster in the game world.. and the human-controlled character who looks like a human being, was created by a human being, and the human who controls that character knows what is happening at the exact time it does. Jade brotherhood are nothing more than computer-controlled.. programmed.. non-living.. pictures. No real person behind there. Not only that.. but they're gang-bangers, drug-dealers, and worse, which is why we kill them at all according to the game. I'm gonna assume the average GW player.. ain't those things and if they are.. I'll never know it.

True, GW has no blood decals, gore.. flying heads. But death is death. Still seeing as the news has worse than GW, I'll give it that it's just my own personal ETHOS, as was said before. I am not a PvPer. You can bet your shiny Mini Ghostly Hero that I could play with the best of the PvPers. If I wanted to. And I used to. Not anymore.. I am PvEr. Only. And I gave you my reason why, sorry if it upsets.

Point is.. this is supposed to be a cooperative game. And you know.. In order to find the guild and/or people I need to help me in hard mode, which is what spawned this whole discussion in the first place.. I kinda need to play with them. Well that's a little hard to do when no one plays with anything but henchmen, heroes, and guildmates now. So if your guild dies a little.. like mine.. good luck finding what you need if you've got specific needs beyond what the majority like.

Needless to say.. all I could come up with as an actual solution to anything was to globalize the search feature. Like I said.. if you thought I wanted to change the face of GW's base you gotta another thought coming. I'm a girl gamer. I've been here since 2 monthes after release, and I say PvP has a much bigger role in GW than what it did a year ago, something a PvEr has trouble with.. when it is very much controlling the course of the game. Yes, the EULA.. yes game experience may change.. that's to cover lawsuits for those who would look for something to sue for.

So if all are done complaining about my views on Pvp and violence in video games, heh.. maybe something could be done to save the random group. Not all people in or looking for PUGs are noobs. Some just might be social, looking for a guild or friends for the list, or looking for a challenge. Globalized search option.. might help.. and it might not. Only thing i can think of without "changing the face of the player base".

Oh but they do get better. AI, skills.. change all the time. Ever done the forge run? Yeah. You might know what I mean. Saying that PvE is no challenge.. that it does not change, is fallacy. It's why PvE have little respect for PvP and vice versa. As for PvP, much of the challenge is guessing what build to use against the popular builds. I remember the old ranger spirit spammer build.. the old Minions Zerging. I was a Pvper, once. And never ever again. For me there is no challenge there. There's more of the back-talking, "noobs" using wiki-posted builds, and racist comments about Koreans. Healthy competition? If you call hearing Jap, Rice-Growers, Coons and such healthy comments. Seems the enforcement of EULA is a bit lax on that point, eh? During my Pvp time, it was the Koreans. I'm an American player, and I find Americans very ..wordy.. during pvp. Today, the "Pvp for Pvers" or "Invasion of PvP on Pve Territory".. Aspenwood.. you can hear it in local pretty often. Do I do aspenwood? Sure. There's NPCs there, and it's a bit hard to progress in Factions without it.

Im going to have to disagree with you on this one.

Many Americans (At least in my AB alliance, which is international BTW) are very polite towards people from diffrent countries, and help correct them while speaking english, or vice versa. One of the guilds in the alliance is entirely French, and there is no bad blood between people.

I understand in PvP battles it is a little diffrent with the competition etc., but for the most part there is no hatred between countries like the guy from Brazil stated previously in this thread. There will always be jerks who will say stuff, American or not (in HA there are some..er..racist Germans) but to stereotype all of PvP is unfair.

forge runs are not difficult lol. all it takes is like 1 practice run to figure out where shit spawns.the challenge in pve is easily repeatable, and only at its highest level (elite missions, etc) is it comparable to pvp in terms of complexity and cooperation. mobs never change the way they agro, their skills never change. all they do is chase after you in hopes they can mindlessly hit their skills in coordination with how low the corisponding health bars. the ai is nothing compared to that of a human therefor comparing the 2 is just dumb at its most basic level

i dont care about shit talking in pvp as if you are offended turn off local chat, ignore people, be the bigger man...

the fact you consider alliance battles in their current form as pvp is comical in the eyes of anyone who pvp's

Dude stop telling other players what Guild Wars should be like according to your view. If people like to farm or pvp, it is their choice. You keep pointing out your "negativity" towards farm/pvp, if you dont like it keep it to yourself obviously other people dont think farm/pvp negatively as you do.

It is like someone telling other people to stop smoking because s/he is a non smoker or telling other people to stop eating meat because s/he is a vegetarian, it is annoying.

Bingo! Exactly.


Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they stink.

Almost all of GW's quest rewards make them 100% pointless do bother with the quest.

If GW is about doing quests, then they need to make quest rewards not be totally pointless.

There are not enough story or missions to sustain players for any significant amount of time of "going through them". Prophecies can be beaten easily in a day if you run through it, and in a week if you don't. Factions can easily be beaten in a day. NF can easily be beaten in a week.

If GW is about completing a story then it would have to be way, way, way longer of a story to keep good players going through it for longer than those time frames. After those time frames there isn't much left to do other than farm or get titles.

Well said sir. Well anyways Guild Wars Eye of the north looks like it's mostly PvE content if that makes you feel better. I'd just a solid release date or some more info on it. I'm stuck in PvP hell (RA) trying to get a point but no luck today, good news would be nice. That's what my butt smells like. Sniff it if you wish.

I can also kinda see how the player base has changed, for me anyway. When I first started playing prophecies I hardly went out doing quests with a all hench group. There was always someone in an outpost going "LFP (insert quest name here)". And once we finished that one quest we'd work our way through all the quests everyone in the group still needed to do.

I've also pretty much achieved everything I want to in GW. Title grinding is just silly. And there's no way I can PvP, my ping is way too high, which I've accepted.

Looking at some of the trade centres (Kamadan, LA, Kaineng) I've come to realize that many people are just out there farming, mostly highend/elite areas. I haven't seen so many people trying to sell Zodiac weapons in ages. Even some of the DoA greens are a common site in trade chat.

And if they're not farming they're making a new character and developing said new character for the sole purpose of fitting into a cookie-cutter group, or solo-farming.

Alas, I haven't logged on to guild wars in some time now. (I do occasionally to see what's going on, and then log off again). I did start playing Oblivion again and am quite proud of my Lvl22 Wood-Elf

Haha, I can always count on Macabre to bright up my day.
OP! you can learn a lot from this man and stop being a muppet.

LOL, well thanks

I mean, I respect this person's opinion as much as the next guy, but I don't have to like it, and it seems Ari is obsessed with forcing people to like it.

This line:
simply reeks of "my way is the way". Who are you that we must trust your opinion above all else, Ari? Pssh.

it is like when u bought faction: ouch! then u bought NF: oh boy.......

ToonTown Online, ooh boy, that's a fun PvE game... with 7 year olds, and uhh, ducks and monkeys...

I think most of the community that grinds/farms has just been bored for a long time since GW is a simple and short game when you rush through it. And the end-game is not really there besides large PvP/Hard Mode. Personally (Christian beliefs), I have no problem with PvP. It is just a game, and I rather play online taking down people then have[*] unsociable/unathletic/obese/all-around-geeky/lives-in-mums-basement [/*] people tackling each other in real life while shouting things like 'AFTERSHOCKKK', or 'GO FOR THE EYES' or smacking each other with foil-wrapped cardboard swords. It just wouldn't be proper. Sure the community can be racist jerks in-game, and talk about my momma all they want in PvP, but that's why I liked playing the game... to show them one up, and frustrate the living daylights out of them. (I'm supposed to be the salt of the earth, and salt irritates. Mesmers anybody? ) Just hope that GWEN will overstuff your PvE hunger, and that the community gets another kick in the button when the expansion comes out. Untill then, we have to deal with the Whammos and Sin Tankers.


* = [stereotype]

You need to find a guild.

Your perception is wrongfully based on dating marketing slang used by Anet way back when prophecies came out. Back then they called it a CMORPG (Competitive massive online role playing game) or something along those line. Basically they used PVP to differentiaty GW from other MMO's. The truth is, and you guys are free to argue on this, that PVE is mainly what's retaining the vets and more importantly drawing in news customers. The game population has evolved in such way that it makes it clear for Anet what they have to do to keep their users: More PVE content. They got the message too; GW:EN is basically an all PVE product for all we know, and it's predecessor (NF) was way more focused on PVE than Factions. Look at the clues: raising the level cap in GW2, PVE only skills in GW:EN... it's all there is to it.

And if you read any interview on Guildwars at any given time, the developers of the game have even stated that the intention of the game was for players to advance into the PVP aspect of the game when they finished the storyline with their characters.

I'll quote myself here:
Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that Cursing and Hating is healthy and should be happening. I'm just saying that where's competition there will be people who can't control themselves or show the proper respect for each other. I never offended anyone online just because they won or something like that.

That's life in community, you'll just have to live with that. We have the illusion that real life is a bit differente because nobody you'll offend you right in your face, a least not all the time, because if they do that there'll be consequences. On the Internet people think that they're immune to the real life rules, it's a lot easier to offend a bunch of pixels and forget that they're controlled by a real person. I've been playing MMOs and other Multiplayer games for around 9 or 10 years now, i started with the first Diablo and since then it was always like this, but that's the Internet so i think we'll just have to live with it.

I begun GW as a PvEr with some friends, we had a Guild of our own GvGed just for fun never got beyond Rank 2000. After a while we made other friends and the Guild started to grow, we disbanded the old guild and created another one focusing PvP only: You Is [Bofe].
We became the best brazillian Guild and the third best Brazillian/Portuguese guild only behind Eletronic Empire[eE] and Group Therapy[Hug]. We achieved Rank 130 and would be TOP 100 soon if we continued but RL changes and problems forced us to disband the guild, some went to other PvP guilds some quitted GW and I became a PvE player, like the good old days. I love PvE, always loved as much as i loved PvP and i can say both features have a LOT of challenge, Urgoz, DoA, The Deep, UW, FoW are not easy places to play or farm and win a GvG against a TOP 100 is not easy either. PvP is about GuildWiki cookie cutter builds only in the low end and build isn't everything you have to know how to play with it.

Hardcore PvPers don't usually get along hardcore PvErs just because they play different styles of the game, they have different priorities. What's a Champion or Gladiator Title for a PvEr? What's a Legendary Survivor Title for a PvPer?

I'm brazillian, i used to play a lot of HA and GvG and a lot of people knew [Bofe] was a brazillian guild and we heard cursing just like Koreans do. It'll never going to stop, ever. Throught my 10 years of online playing i always heard things like that and that's not going to change, i know that, because some people are just like this, some people never grow up.

IMO you can't just 'play' you need to have an in-game goal or something to work towards else the game becomes boring and pointless.

just going off of my own experience talking to a lot a lot a lotta lot of people in the year and a half i played, they did the missions.....they did them again....and again...on many different characters with many different people. but the missions stay the same....now call me crazy but after a while that process does get quite boring. so they started farming for gold, items, etc etc to buy better armor to be just that much more shnazzy and a cut above the crowd. the reason people farm (at least for me and a few of my guild mates and whatnot) is it 1: give yourself a challenge the normal gameplay does not 2: get new rare items to give your char that certain blingage 3: to sell for the end goal of getting enough money for sets of 15k armor, FoW armor, etc etc.

as for pvp play this game was designed for pvp as well as pve not as a sorta lil side thing your only gonna do once or twice ever. the name itself Guild Wars, aside from being a part of the lore in the story, is also the basic idea of the game. 8v8 6v6 4v4 on large maps utilizing your skills from pve to kick the crap outta eachother and gain a lil prestige with shiney farm animals and silver/gold lined capes. so in short pvp is as much of guild wars as pve. *nods*

Exactly how I feel.

I'm not sure anyone here actually does remember GW the way it used to be.

Sure, there have always been bots. Always been farming. There's always been PvP. There's alot more shit now than there used to be. There's a way to report bots. No one does. Anet doesn't police them unless they are reported, which means they will continue to increase.. because no one reports them. And if you happen to be one of those who do, good job. You're a rare person. Farming used to be a way to earn enough for that cool set of armor, that great weapon skin. Maybe even farming it yourself. Now it's a way to find cheap gold items to sell to the masses for 5x the price. PvP used to be seperate from the rest of the game. Now it's so much a part of the game, it affects the skills and builds, the everything ..of the PvE part as well. Skill balancing ..always occuring to suit the PvP portion.. as some are overused, overpowered when used in Hero Battles/Alliance Battles/Guild Battles/etc. ..and just fine when they are only for the PvE game.

GW is not the way it used to be. Big deal if GW:EN arrives. You know why they're making PvE only skills? Because the PvP "balances" keep screwing up the PvE game. I really don't know who thought of "integrating" PvE and PvP but it was bad idea.

Also, I love the one-liner replies crying about me pushing my views on others. You do realize you're doing exactly the same with that, right? And there's a hell of alot more of you. If you don't have constructive things to say, seriously.. steer your fireballs elsewhere. PvP people aren't going to see my point, aren't going to see the changes I'm talking about, so please.. back to waiting for your timer to start the next match. My point isn't violence in games, it ain't PvP vs PvE, and I ain't a freaking dude.

For the last time, get a damn extinguisher for your flaming asses and read the actual topic. The face of GW's player base has changed. It is NOT the way it used to be, and things are WORSE for us who actually play the story. Anet can you hear me? I'm a veteran player. Please for hell's sake, do something about the bots.. do something about the lack of real players in PvE areas.. change the skills ONLY in PvP and do not make the changes affect PvE. Heroes are not the answer to make up for the lack of real people. They're nice, they're convenient.. but they can't do eternal grove in hard mode. Do you understand this? They are only as smart as the program that runs them. "PvE-only skills" are not the answer for the skill balances that are continuous now with tournaments. Seperate the two.. seperate PvP and PvE.. they are not symbiotic! Do you understand that? Anet, please do something. The majority should not rule all your decisions. Eventually they will move on to other games. But your veteran player will be here until the damn servers are turned off. But I can tell you one thing. I won't be buying GW:EN or GW2 if you can't fix what broke in the originals.

It's nice that you don't give a crap about those people you're giving cancer to. Just like SOME of these wonderful PvPers who think PvP doesn't affect PvE or those who play it.

I think I agree with Ari in most aspects here. Guild Wars has changed... from being a game with people playing a game, to a game where 90% of people are only there to "out do" their fellow players. It is now a game of who is the best farmer and scammer, instead of who is the best "real" player.

I remember the way Guild Wars used to be, it was (and in the physical worldly aspects still is) a game where you would play an enveloping story that featured a character that you brought to life and played with other living characters (and sometimes henchmen) to fullfill tasks (missions and quests) to stop the spread of evil. It was an opportunity for a completely different reality.

When travelling with others back in the day, it was all about exploring and questing, while actually enjoying and living in the Guild Wars world. Now days a typical "outting" with others consists of rushing through the shortest possible route while skipping movie sequences and doing only primary quests--if even that. Many times its even worse than that, where its all about running to that town or outpost that has the max armor so you can be better than some people in PvP (even though many of them have the same or better).

Speaking of PvP, I am not saying that it is a bad part of Guild Wars. I respect the good and talented guilds that have achieved high rankings in PvP and the guild ladder. But when last I stepped in PvP (Fort Aspenwood) it was brutal. Most of the teams were composed of leechers, I mean seriously, why did you spend real money just to make a character and have it sit there and not even play! When actually fighting, the typical game started out with the teams trading noob comments over and over, like many other PvP matches...

Meh, I know I am fighting an uphill battle with this one but this is just what I think, and I am in no way dictating to anyone how they should play Guild Wars--that is, in the end, the beauty of the game, you get to play how you want. I have been a long time Guild Wars veteran spanning across all three campaigns, and I am agreeing with Ari that indeed this game has changed, and at least for my play style, that change is for the worst...

Ari, the only problem, the one I have had as well, is that you have not found other people that enjoy the game in the same way as you. I have not logged in recently because of the spammers, the duelists, the strippers dancing in the square, the trashtalkers. It all serves as a bring down when all I want is to find someone who enjoys the GAME, not being in a virtual clubhouse where they can run amok.

I love wandering new terrain, finding beautiful places, helping the townsfolk with their problems, be it monsters, beehives, bandits, whatever. It is all the more preferable when someone is with you. I always had Gwen with me. For me it is not about loot, leveling, and "beating the game". Beating the game means it comes to an end. I just enjoy being there. I enjoy new items and gaining new abilities, but the thing about loot and levels is there is always something out there that can kill you, no matter how developed you are in skill and gear.

Anyway, your frustration stems from a player base that is not what one would hope. Just remember, once you leave town, you leave all those bozos behind.

you missed the entire point. Ari is not expressing a complaint about farming or PvP. Ari is expressing a complaint with the obvious fact that most people who play GW these days, the other people we log in to interact with, do not want to do anything but farm or PvP. I agree 100% and it is why I log in very rarely and when I do I mostly travel with henchmen.

To say that GW is mostly a PvP game is dismissing the other 90% of the programming that went into the game. There is a strong PvP component, obvious by the fact that you can create a level 20 character right out of the chute and never have to PvE unless you want to unlock skills. If that is how someone wants to play, cool. However, if following the story is how you want to play, then people who care nothing for the story are a bit of a disappointment to those who log in hoping to find team mates to take down the dwarves in Shiverpeak or whatever.

Farming...really, who cares? Not the farmers. Any game can be farmed for something. The people who buy from farmers are too lazy to get thigns for themselves. The farmers have no imagination and do not see a game as something to be absorbed into, they see it as commerce OUTSIDE of the game. Ants. Maybe the grasshopper dies when winter comes, but he has fun all summer.

Ari and people like me are only disappointed that there are so few of us and are so hard to find. Most guilds are not roleplay guilds and if they are they are they are usually made up of people who have played through the story and now make up their own, having little to no interest to get into the content. Most PvEers just want to complete the missions and care little for establishing friendships in the game, something that adds that little bit of depth. I travelled with Gwen the whole time and, in game, she became my character's friend - the curious little kid who comes over when you are working in the yard and asks a million questions. It's even cooler when that person is real and has more than a dozen rotating questions to ask.

PvPers like human opponents. RPers like human allies.