In a tiny comparison between melee/range and Spellcasters, do the casters have it to good.
Spellcasters are
Monk
Ele
mesmer
Deadly arts assassin
Magic based Dervish (no melee skills)
Ritualist
Necro
Melee
paragon
ranger
Sin
Warrior
dervish
In terms of 1 on 1, many say an assassin will get a spell caster anytime, or Warriors give out incredible dps against spellcasters.
However Spellcasters have an incredibly easy time shutting down melee, while the otherhand doesnt.
In Pve, Your team is most likely diverse so you just say, if I get blinded/blocked the ele/mesmer will take care of it (I take a mesmer henchy)
Go into pve into places like RoT with the only spellcaster being a monk or Ritualist (maybe 2) your melee party..while they may not die will be rather frustrated.
Do the same in an all spellcaster party ands its not very hard, an Geo Ele serves as tank, Ritualist puts up some extra targets to take heat off party while providing benefits MM or other necro's provide extra dps.
In PvP it should be apparent. Blind, the skill that pretty much ends any melee attack without removal is Easy to apply. Daze the skill to apply on a spell caster has very few options that aren't elite, and among each class those elite options are also few. Anti Melee hexes aswell are spread between both Necro and Mesmer. A Deadly arts assassin has siphon strength it won't do anything to a spellcaster but to melee its a large nuisance until removed.
Of course the obvious reply is Bring removal, Anything applied to a spellcaster is the same, bring removal.
Sure they have less armor, but there are ways to go around this. Geo eles have no problem with armor, and Water eles have an armor skill aswell. Monks speak for themself and Ritualists do the same. Mesmers have their anti melee so it won't matter and Sins have a bunch of it.
Do spellcasters have it too good? Pve and in PvP?
PS:The grammar might be lacking.
Do Spellcasters have it too good?
ensoriki
blue.rellik
Just a note, for a caster to 'have an incredibly easy time shutting down melee', they'll need to bring skills especially against melee which leaves them quite open to being owned by the enemy casters
ensoriki
Caster Vs Caster isn't as big
if its Mesmer vs ele it either goes 1 way
Mesmer has 1-3 anti melee skills, Strip enchantment, power block, Backfire, Energy Drain, Auspis Cantation. (if it has 3 anti melee) rez sig (2 anti melee) Ether feast ((1 melee)
Auspious cantation isn't needed aswell, so 2 anti melee regardless happens.
Anyways thats a mesmer who is an obvious counter.
Monk vs Ele is odd (not an earth ele) Ele tries to nuke/spike but Monk counters Monk has lets say a few Smite skills.
ergo, for a mesmer it doesn't matter much, melee is nothing. 1/2 spell casters is nothing.
For an earth ele, most spell casters are annoying and melee isn't much of anything.
_________________
Basically to clarify spellcaster vs melee (caster) Caster vs caster,depends.
if its Mesmer vs ele it either goes 1 way
Mesmer has 1-3 anti melee skills, Strip enchantment, power block, Backfire, Energy Drain, Auspis Cantation. (if it has 3 anti melee) rez sig (2 anti melee) Ether feast ((1 melee)
Auspious cantation isn't needed aswell, so 2 anti melee regardless happens.
Anyways thats a mesmer who is an obvious counter.
Monk vs Ele is odd (not an earth ele) Ele tries to nuke/spike but Monk counters Monk has lets say a few Smite skills.
ergo, for a mesmer it doesn't matter much, melee is nothing. 1/2 spell casters is nothing.
For an earth ele, most spell casters are annoying and melee isn't much of anything.
_________________
Basically to clarify spellcaster vs melee (caster) Caster vs caster,depends.
blue.rellik
Uhhhh.......what?
No offense but I didn't quite understand what you just said
No offense but I didn't quite understand what you just said
Skuld
Except warriors have killing power, casters don't.
Kinda balances it out, don't you think?
Kinda balances it out, don't you think?
ensoriki
Casters don't have killing power? Since when.
ELes have all kinds of damage
Monks have smite (although who plays that?)
Rits have Spirits and Channeling
Blood Spike/Minions from Necro/ Empathy/Spiteful spirit
Shameful fear+ Cripple from an asssassin to kite away while they Deadly daggers and entangling asp.
Mesmer, Degen/Empathy/ Some domination spells.
all spellcasters can kill however the mesmer doesn't do it as well.
And the warrior isnt a great killer.
How does the warrior balance it out when
The warrior gets blinded then he gets Air Spiked
Warrior gets Reckless haste then blood spiked/ spoil victor'd etc.
Not much of a balance.
It's not wise to go into Higher end PVE (not elite...end-game) With the only caster being a monk(2) because you will get blocked/blinded etc.
ELes have all kinds of damage
Monks have smite (although who plays that?)
Rits have Spirits and Channeling
Blood Spike/Minions from Necro/ Empathy/Spiteful spirit
Shameful fear+ Cripple from an asssassin to kite away while they Deadly daggers and entangling asp.
Mesmer, Degen/Empathy/ Some domination spells.
all spellcasters can kill however the mesmer doesn't do it as well.
And the warrior isnt a great killer.
How does the warrior balance it out when
The warrior gets blinded then he gets Air Spiked
Warrior gets Reckless haste then blood spiked/ spoil victor'd etc.
Not much of a balance.
It's not wise to go into Higher end PVE (not elite...end-game) With the only caster being a monk(2) because you will get blocked/blinded etc.
Skuld
Just because they can deal damage doesn't mean they can kill.
Why do you think this game is based around warriors?
Why do you think this game is based around warriors?
Miral
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ensoriki
In terms of 1 on 1, many say an assassin will get a spell caster anytime, or Warriors give out incredible dps against spellcasters.
However Spellcasters have an incredibly easy time shutting down melee, while the otherhand doesnt. |
but simple thing: shadow form + a quick damage spike will almost assuredly spell victory for an assassin against a caster in 1v1 scrimmage.
ensoriki
thats 1 on 1, and even in 1 on 1 That is with Shadow Form. That works against EVERYTHING.
Though what do you do against a Kiter (I know there are cripples) But lets say this person has spell breaker, and waits for SF to end while kitting Boom you loose around 300/400 health and they activate SF, start burning 14 hp a second with your remaining 30-50 health left 2 seconds and your gone.
I don't see much people Using SF when going in the realm of Torment, or Raisu Palace in a normal Party (not a solo build)
In a team pvp its stupid because 1 some1 will be protected by a monk or have numerous people backing them up.
Assassins have because higher priority targets due to the past events of BOA.
Though what do you do against a Kiter (I know there are cripples) But lets say this person has spell breaker, and waits for SF to end while kitting Boom you loose around 300/400 health and they activate SF, start burning 14 hp a second with your remaining 30-50 health left 2 seconds and your gone.
I don't see much people Using SF when going in the realm of Torment, or Raisu Palace in a normal Party (not a solo build)
In a team pvp its stupid because 1 some1 will be protected by a monk or have numerous people backing them up.
Assassins have because higher priority targets due to the past events of BOA.
Zaganher Deathbane
GW is a team game. We only have 8 skills at a time. We rely on our teammates to survive and our teammates rely on us. We rely on our strengths and our teammates cover up for our weaknesses. So I don't think there's the best class
Miral
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Skuld
Just because they can deal damage doesn't mean they can kill.
Why do you think this game is based around warriors? |
Skuld
Fire is only good because of the AoE, when on a single target, a warrior will come out better all the time - a warrior doesn't need to use skills to damage, and warriors have Deep Wound.
Refer to Ensign's old (but still relevent) Why Nuking Sucks thread for more details.
Refer to Ensign's old (but still relevent) Why Nuking Sucks thread for more details.
ensoriki
it isn't, people just play it that way because warriors are so easy to master. A fire elementalist kills far better than a warrior can ever hope to. the thing with warriors isn't that they are killing machines, but that they can survive major attacks without needing defensive skills while they do decent damage.
Warrior damage is nothing without the skills which require adrenaline which means before then their doing mediocre damage waiting to gain what they need to kill. In that time the ele casts Meteor storm with its long spell cast and then SF. and with Fire magic/ Water magic and energy storage being shared they have a snare aswell. Whats the warrior gonna do?
thats like saying Assassins are really strong they can take down a Caster, Casters have lots of blind and miss techniques they can take down a sin/stop it.
And ^^^ ya you work with your team, but lets see how it works
it isn't, people just play it that way because warriors are so easy to master. A fire elementalist kills far better than a warrior can ever hope to. the thing with warriors isn't that they are killing machines, but that they can survive major attacks without needing defensive skills while they do decent damage.
An E/A goes into deadly arts to pull out the sin hex that works like this.
When target foe goes below 50% you shadow step to that foe and they get a deep wound. Ding, lets not forget if its an air ele then waht?
You have Deepwound from the /A part and Blind on and your about to take a lightning orb.
Lets take an Earth ele with (Not E/D) Who has some defense runs stoneflesh aura and Kinetic because she/he knows she will be casting earth all the time. The warrior/sin/etc doesn't notice its an earth ele and attacks, No damage, they try to Condition, the monk cures it Ele starts attacking, the other teams monk attacks. Well the ele can go for a while they ahve Minor E-management. being E/me (not high e-manage)
meanwhile the Mesmer on the warriors team starts hexing up the monk, the mesmer or monk on the other team uses holy viel to get rid of the first hex and tells the party to get the mesmer.
Etc. In an all spell caster team the roles melee does (killing/tanking flagging/ luring aggro) can be done.
Warrior damage is nothing without the skills which require adrenaline which means before then their doing mediocre damage waiting to gain what they need to kill. In that time the ele casts Meteor storm with its long spell cast and then SF. and with Fire magic/ Water magic and energy storage being shared they have a snare aswell. Whats the warrior gonna do?
thats like saying Assassins are really strong they can take down a Caster, Casters have lots of blind and miss techniques they can take down a sin/stop it.
And ^^^ ya you work with your team, but lets see how it works
it isn't, people just play it that way because warriors are so easy to master. A fire elementalist kills far better than a warrior can ever hope to. the thing with warriors isn't that they are killing machines, but that they can survive major attacks without needing defensive skills while they do decent damage.
An E/A goes into deadly arts to pull out the sin hex that works like this.
When target foe goes below 50% you shadow step to that foe and they get a deep wound. Ding, lets not forget if its an air ele then waht?
You have Deepwound from the /A part and Blind on and your about to take a lightning orb.
Lets take an Earth ele with (Not E/D) Who has some defense runs stoneflesh aura and Kinetic because she/he knows she will be casting earth all the time. The warrior/sin/etc doesn't notice its an earth ele and attacks, No damage, they try to Condition, the monk cures it Ele starts attacking, the other teams monk attacks. Well the ele can go for a while they ahve Minor E-management. being E/me (not high e-manage)
meanwhile the Mesmer on the warriors team starts hexing up the monk, the mesmer or monk on the other team uses holy viel to get rid of the first hex and tells the party to get the mesmer.
Etc. In an all spell caster team the roles melee does (killing/tanking flagging/ luring aggro) can be done.
Stormlord Alex
It's a team game, whilst casters may have the upper hand on melee, the team's monks should be busy keeping said melee free from caster hate.
In terms of damage output...
For PvE, Eles rule. (multiple...) Searing Flames on mobs too retarded to spread out is win.
For PvP, the melee is king - generally warriors are seen as the masters of damage. Melee can spike better, deals more (and more consistent) damage, can provide utility and KD on the side, and gets to Deep Wound stuff with abandon.
Miral, your comment on Fire eles > warriors only really holds water from a PvE perspective.
In terms of damage output...
For PvE, Eles rule. (multiple...) Searing Flames on mobs too retarded to spread out is win.
For PvP, the melee is king - generally warriors are seen as the masters of damage. Melee can spike better, deals more (and more consistent) damage, can provide utility and KD on the side, and gets to Deep Wound stuff with abandon.
Miral, your comment on Fire eles > warriors only really holds water from a PvE perspective.
Sabe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Skuld
Fire is only good because of the AoE, when on a single target, a warrior will come out better all the time - a warrior doesn't need to use skills to damage, and warriors have Deep Wound.
Refer to Ensign's old (but still relevent) Why Nuking Sucks thread for more details. |
Miral
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ensoriki
Though what do you do against a Kiter (I know there are cripples) But lets say this person has spell breaker, and waits for SF to end while kitting Boom you loose around 300/400 health and they activate SF, start burning 14 hp a second with your remaining 30-50 health left 2 seconds and your gone.
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[skill]Dark Prison[/skill] or [skill]Scorpion Wire[/skill]
if they are a monk and somehow got spellbreaker up without being interupted, then [skill]Shadow Walk[/skill] or any run speed increase and [skill]Leaping Mantis Sting[/skill]
ensoriki
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
It's a team game, whilst casters may have the upper hand on melee, the team's monks should be busy keeping said melee free from caster hate.
In terms of damage output... For PvE, Eles rule. (multiple...) Searing Flames on mobs too retarded to spread out is win. For PvP, the melee is king - generally warriors are seen as the masters of damage. Melee can spike better, deals more (and more consistent) damage, can provide utility and KD on the side, and gets to Deep Wound stuff with abandon. Miral, your comment on Fire eles > warriors only really holds water from a PvE perspective. |
Any Ele that goes E/A has An easy way to get deep wound and when it will work best
As soon as they go to 50% they get deepwound you teleport to them you activate a PB Aoe..
OR E/A uses Air magic and has the 50% deepwound from /A The warrior is crippled, sure they have monks but thats what a blind bot does keeps constant blind.
a warrior has the best dps?......pfffft!!!
The problem with warrior DPS is adrenaline. If they had energy and energy recharge like a sin/derv and there skills cost energy, sure they would be.
But a warrior whacks there damage around doing anywhere from 10-30 damage...basically there like degen but slower. then they get adrenaline and do some damage... IN the same time.
I took an assassin Put on critical defenses, and Fox's promise
Jagged strike, wild strike, Death blossom Golden phoenix strike Hoto.
That combo on average is Good damage every 5-9 seconds (averaged somewhat)
Jagged strike 1 sec wild strike 4 death blossom 2 GPS 8 hoto...forgot.
If you see thats not a long time and then the dagger damage while Low is boosted by criticals that happen a bit. Sure the warrior has DPS but it depends. if I take out fox's promise put in moebuis strike took out GPS its going to be very different.
Stormlord Alex
There's the inherent difference between Assassins and Warriors - 'sins HAVE to use skills to actually deal damage.
An Axe warrior easily crits for ~50 damage, and with Frenzy (yes, *one* skill) he'll be dealing ~50% more damage, ON TOP OF 50% more adrenaline gain. That's already some ok damage without expending a single strike of adrenaline.
When we throw attack skills into it as well, warriors become even stronger - the Eviscerate/Executioner Strike combo has the potential to do nearly 300 damage in about a second, far greater than what an ele could do by comparison.
And yes... you could blind the warrior, or snare him.
However, you can daze a caster, or have a mesmer/ranger sit on his face as well.
Also... People seem to forget that you can buff the melee to stupidity, with Paragon chants, orders etc. There is no Crippling anthem for spells.
Yes, it does need to be a fire ele, btw.
Miral said Fire ele in his post... Besides, other ele lines are fairly lackluster for damage. Air's ok... But I still prefer a mind blaster.
An Axe warrior easily crits for ~50 damage, and with Frenzy (yes, *one* skill) he'll be dealing ~50% more damage, ON TOP OF 50% more adrenaline gain. That's already some ok damage without expending a single strike of adrenaline.
When we throw attack skills into it as well, warriors become even stronger - the Eviscerate/Executioner Strike combo has the potential to do nearly 300 damage in about a second, far greater than what an ele could do by comparison.
And yes... you could blind the warrior, or snare him.
However, you can daze a caster, or have a mesmer/ranger sit on his face as well.
Also... People seem to forget that you can buff the melee to stupidity, with Paragon chants, orders etc. There is no Crippling anthem for spells.
Yes, it does need to be a fire ele, btw.
Miral said Fire ele in his post... Besides, other ele lines are fairly lackluster for damage. Air's ok... But I still prefer a mind blaster.
Destinyy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ensoriki
thats 1 on 1, and even in 1 on 1 That is with Shadow Form. That works against EVERYTHING.
|
I play necro in AB (my only PVP) and I always carry chillblains... I had a SF assa come up to me the other day, chilled and plagued him... then let off SS, IP and he was dead...
I do see your point to an extent, As SS necro i fear no melee save 1... The daze assa; that irritating little sh*t that steps in, dazes me and proceeds to cut me to shreads, lol... So yeah, I do get wot u mean... As SS necro, I only fear a few things, Degen, necros and mesmers, as well as backfire mesmers...
So that's my to an extent agreement... Wot you are talking about is game balance actually... If every class could take on every other class and counter them all then wot would be the difference between them? wot would make you choose to play your necro over your sin, or your warrior over you ele?
Food for thought...?
ensoriki
Destinny what that means is. without E-R of course there going to walk up to you and start attacking.
How is the melee going to get Daze off if there blinded?
How is the sin going to lend temple strike when hes Deep Freezed/blinded/Reckless hasted (a bit easier).
The thing is, with the EASE of applying anti-melee is no where near applying spell caster counters.
And sure warriors damage adds up.
But in that time the sin has killed some1, the warrior just gives the additional bonus
If a warrior and Sin Synergize its great and all , but all alone the warrior is kind of slow until the adrenaline builds.
How is the melee going to get Daze off if there blinded?
How is the sin going to lend temple strike when hes Deep Freezed/blinded/Reckless hasted (a bit easier).
The thing is, with the EASE of applying anti-melee is no where near applying spell caster counters.
And sure warriors damage adds up.
But in that time the sin has killed some1, the warrior just gives the additional bonus
If a warrior and Sin Synergize its great and all , but all alone the warrior is kind of slow until the adrenaline builds.
Roshi_ikkyu
ensoriki
are u serious or just baiting for a flame thread?
Every valid point that has been raise, you alwats seem to offer a different version.
Is it possible that someone can reply to this thread questioning you opinion with out you having to prove them wrong?
are u serious or just baiting for a flame thread?
Every valid point that has been raise, you alwats seem to offer a different version.
Is it possible that someone can reply to this thread questioning you opinion with out you having to prove them wrong?
ensoriki
I'm not trying to shoot people down or start a flame.
Im just saying, everything that the melee character can do the spellcasters can stop.
and everything the melee caster can offer to stop that like Daze means they have to get to the caster without Blind, without Snares and without being dead, which is kinda heard if your being attacked from a distance being 66% slowed, unless your an assassin, but by then your probably blind since BOA made you a more popular choice to kill than before.
Basically everything I said was.
How does the melee truly stack against smart casters who can stop them without them taking any damage from them. What does the warrior do against a deadly arts sin using Siphon Strength and Giving out blind or the ele who Blinds while the second ele Deep Freezes every1 who was in the location.
Im just saying, everything that the melee character can do the spellcasters can stop.
and everything the melee caster can offer to stop that like Daze means they have to get to the caster without Blind, without Snares and without being dead, which is kinda heard if your being attacked from a distance being 66% slowed, unless your an assassin, but by then your probably blind since BOA made you a more popular choice to kill than before.
Basically everything I said was.
How does the melee truly stack against smart casters who can stop them without them taking any damage from them. What does the warrior do against a deadly arts sin using Siphon Strength and Giving out blind or the ele who Blinds while the second ele Deep Freezes every1 who was in the location.
Lord Natural
I wouldn't say spellcasters have it too good. In fact their damage can be somewhat lacking, as most builds require some type of melee pressure to finish the job. If you're looking at things in a 1v1 perspective it seems like the warrior is at a disadvantage, but in the scope of a team build, melee pressure is usually the key.
As far as PvE goes, there's nothing to stop a warrior from dishing out some great dps other than the tank stereotype. The exception would be those areas with multiple curses necros, stance rangers, and so on. But that's why a team build includes casters as well.
As far as PvE goes, there's nothing to stop a warrior from dishing out some great dps other than the tank stereotype. The exception would be those areas with multiple curses necros, stance rangers, and so on. But that's why a team build includes casters as well.
Stormlord Alex
Yes, anti-melee is easier to apply.
Why?
Because the melee is far more dangerous than spellcasters. It's balanced like that.
And tbh, I've never found adrenaline to be slow to build. Enraging Charge starts a warrior of with 4 strikes of adrenaline, and then it's only 4-5 more seconds of wailing in an IAS to get the 8 strikes needed to evis/exe someone. And as soon as you leave the scrub arenas, and teams are a slight more co-ordinated, it will be the spiking and great pressure of a warrior, as opposed to the burst of a 'sin, that will get the kills.
Why?
Because the melee is far more dangerous than spellcasters. It's balanced like that.
And tbh, I've never found adrenaline to be slow to build. Enraging Charge starts a warrior of with 4 strikes of adrenaline, and then it's only 4-5 more seconds of wailing in an IAS to get the 8 strikes needed to evis/exe someone. And as soon as you leave the scrub arenas, and teams are a slight more co-ordinated, it will be the spiking and great pressure of a warrior, as opposed to the burst of a 'sin, that will get the kills.
ensoriki
I get what your saying Lord Natural.
But people don't Run Blind Bots for no reason, they don't run it thinking
If that Monk is blind his Light of Deliverance will miss his team mate and heal me -_- (although that be kinda cool) instead they run em because they know there will be melee, and im sure we all know a blind melee...has a 10% chance of being anything other then fodder.
Storm cloud ya warriors get more impressive out of stupid arenas but.
Necessarily more damage?
The benefits of warrior vs ele
Warriors have
+ damage ( some may under estimate it , but + isnt affected by armor)
Don't need to use energy
Ele
Puts out High damage output in exchange for great loss of energy.
I may be biased but because of my experience the warrior won't kill as fast as a proper assassin.
IN terms of Doing something longer a 20 second time-out sin (waits 20 secs to attack again) Isn't doing much
In that down time the warrior has killed 1 person, probably with help is moving on his second person.
Thats where I see the dps, but then the sin comes in
Sin Kills faster but the warrior will constantly be making the monk need to heal until their energy reserves start to dry thin.
But people don't Run Blind Bots for no reason, they don't run it thinking
If that Monk is blind his Light of Deliverance will miss his team mate and heal me -_- (although that be kinda cool) instead they run em because they know there will be melee, and im sure we all know a blind melee...has a 10% chance of being anything other then fodder.
Storm cloud ya warriors get more impressive out of stupid arenas but.
Necessarily more damage?
The benefits of warrior vs ele
Warriors have
+ damage ( some may under estimate it , but + isnt affected by armor)
Don't need to use energy
Ele
Puts out High damage output in exchange for great loss of energy.
I may be biased but because of my experience the warrior won't kill as fast as a proper assassin.
IN terms of Doing something longer a 20 second time-out sin (waits 20 secs to attack again) Isn't doing much
In that down time the warrior has killed 1 person, probably with help is moving on his second person.
Thats where I see the dps, but then the sin comes in
Sin Kills faster but the warrior will constantly be making the monk need to heal until their energy reserves start to dry thin.
Destinyy
I hear you man, but when i play my war or my sin, I tend to stay away from those kind of chars... I promise you, not every ele/ran/mes/nec carries blind on them... When i play assa, I rarely have any problems, I just play smart... Don't run up to that SS necro when he's standing on his own OBVIOUSLY wanting u to approach him, wait for someone else to target him, or for him to target someone else, then move in for the quick kill...
Assa's land up blind half the time cos they impatient and try to play like a warrior... assa's should lurk around in the backline until the opportune moment to strike arrises, then they should strike... I play a melee/pressure class in my Thumper, I always carry a skill for being blinded with me, Irresistable Blow, KD's my target if I am blocked. Warrior has a skill that gives 3 strikes of adren if it is blocked... That said, even if I cannot gte round my blind, I switch targets a littl further away and take a bit of a jog while the blind wears off, then when i get to my target, BAM, the pounding starts...
Assa's land up blind half the time cos they impatient and try to play like a warrior... assa's should lurk around in the backline until the opportune moment to strike arrises, then they should strike... I play a melee/pressure class in my Thumper, I always carry a skill for being blinded with me, Irresistable Blow, KD's my target if I am blocked. Warrior has a skill that gives 3 strikes of adren if it is blocked... That said, even if I cannot gte round my blind, I switch targets a littl further away and take a bit of a jog while the blind wears off, then when i get to my target, BAM, the pounding starts...
ensoriki
Destiny I understand what your saying I've been playing a sin for a year.
However, in a High-class position. How many people are going to not try to make sure the assassin isn't lurking the shadows.
I tried playing a spellcaster and the first thing I always looked for was an assassin, I didn't really care if I had abandon Unchained staring at me, 1 thing was far more important. I would Act as if I didn't notice him and when hes staying just out of radar range so he can shadow step to get me I ran up into his aggro and blinded him.
Sure sins are sneaky but not every1 is going to be so scatterbrained as not to notice.
However, in a High-class position. How many people are going to not try to make sure the assassin isn't lurking the shadows.
I tried playing a spellcaster and the first thing I always looked for was an assassin, I didn't really care if I had abandon Unchained staring at me, 1 thing was far more important. I would Act as if I didn't notice him and when hes staying just out of radar range so he can shadow step to get me I ran up into his aggro and blinded him.
Sure sins are sneaky but not every1 is going to be so scatterbrained as not to notice.
iriyabran
Quote:
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ensoriki are u serious or just baiting for a flame thread? |
stop talking nonsense
ensoriki
wow cry me a river
stop talking nonsense
I would, but when tears/water hit my face I melt. Excuse me I have to find the wizard of oz.
IF you can't explain whats so nonsense of saying that
Spellcasters have advantages, and then not saying how the statement is false are you any better then a troll?
stop talking nonsense
I would, but when tears/water hit my face I melt. Excuse me I have to find the wizard of oz.
IF you can't explain whats so nonsense of saying that
Spellcasters have advantages, and then not saying how the statement is false are you any better then a troll?
baz777
One on one I can hold my own in RA with this build against most melee.
[skill]Elemental Attunement[/skill] [skill]Air Attunement[/skill] [skill]Blinding flash[/skill] [skill]Lightning Hammer[/skill] [skill]Lightning orb[/skill] [skill]Lightning bolt[/skill] [skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill] [skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill]
High damage output with constant +10 hp regen.
By no means invincible but make a fair few back off.
The absolute worse for any caster is a good assassin, fortunately not that many around
[skill]Elemental Attunement[/skill] [skill]Air Attunement[/skill] [skill]Blinding flash[/skill] [skill]Lightning Hammer[/skill] [skill]Lightning orb[/skill] [skill]Lightning bolt[/skill] [skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill] [skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill]
High damage output with constant +10 hp regen.
By no means invincible but make a fair few back off.
The absolute worse for any caster is a good assassin, fortunately not that many around
ensoriki
what are those attributes
14 air
13 en
8 Earth P?
14 air
13 en
8 Earth P?
Stormlord Alex
Yes, 'sins kill faster than warriors from the word 'GO'.
However, to do so, they rely on horribly fragile chains.
Their entire skillbar is devoted to this one maxim, and to making sure that they get off their chain, leaving almost no room for any kind of utility skills.
If their combo is interrupted, they're left doing tantamount to NOTHING untill their skills recharge. Base DPS of assassins is pathetic... If a warrior's attack skills are fizzled, he can shrug his shoulders and go axe someone else, still dealing respectable damage.
As for ele damage vs. warrior damage... Read Why Nuking Sucks, some thoughtful person posted a link earlier. It's a touch dated, and eles have improved significantly since then, but it still holds water.
The only thing I've found to do as a lone ele for decent damage is running some kind of Mind Blast bar, which can also accomodate a whole bunch of utility options. Mostly, eles are still used for utility - Water eles run pretty rampant in Guild battles.
However, to do so, they rely on horribly fragile chains.
Their entire skillbar is devoted to this one maxim, and to making sure that they get off their chain, leaving almost no room for any kind of utility skills.
If their combo is interrupted, they're left doing tantamount to NOTHING untill their skills recharge. Base DPS of assassins is pathetic... If a warrior's attack skills are fizzled, he can shrug his shoulders and go axe someone else, still dealing respectable damage.
As for ele damage vs. warrior damage... Read Why Nuking Sucks, some thoughtful person posted a link earlier. It's a touch dated, and eles have improved significantly since then, but it still holds water.
The only thing I've found to do as a lone ele for decent damage is running some kind of Mind Blast bar, which can also accomodate a whole bunch of utility options. Mostly, eles are still used for utility - Water eles run pretty rampant in Guild battles.
Roshi_ikkyu
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Originally Posted by ensoriki
wow cry me a river
stop talking nonsense I would, but when tears/water hit my face I melt. Excuse me I have to find the wizard of oz. IF you can't explain whats so nonsense of saying that Spellcasters have advantages, and then not saying how the statement is false are you any better then a troll? |
A few of your replies haven't been as clear as you imply they are.
And then you go and get all aggressive about someone saying your post aren't making sense?
And you get aggressive with Wizard of OZ references... umm why?
ensoriki
I thought I posted above about how Sins kill faster but Warriors keep on attacking.
An assassin doesnt devote the Whole of his skillbar to the chain
However a large amount of it is.
skills are usually 3-5 skills out of 8
then 1 or 2 are heals/utility (defense)/enchant/hex
the last 1 being a rez if your not using a rez u add in another 1 of the above or chain.
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Riku, tell me the correct kidness of
wow cry me a river
and then tell me how
stop talking nonsense
Helps, some of the posts in here have been rather insightful such as the warrior posts which add more respect to what I currently have to the class. However some of the stuff you and iraya say don't add anything but problems.
I'm not clear with what I'm saying I apologize, however other thing's aren't needed.
An assassin doesnt devote the Whole of his skillbar to the chain
However a large amount of it is.
skills are usually 3-5 skills out of 8
then 1 or 2 are heals/utility (defense)/enchant/hex
the last 1 being a rez if your not using a rez u add in another 1 of the above or chain.
_______________________________________
Riku, tell me the correct kidness of
wow cry me a river
and then tell me how
stop talking nonsense
Helps, some of the posts in here have been rather insightful such as the warrior posts which add more respect to what I currently have to the class. However some of the stuff you and iraya say don't add anything but problems.
I'm not clear with what I'm saying I apologize, however other thing's aren't needed.
-Loki-
This is not a 1v1 game.
Twinsoul
Just because melee counters are obvious to someone who plays melee doesn't mean there aren't just as many counters to casters. Migraine? Daze? Any kind of interruption?
Sophitia Leafblade
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Originally Posted by ensoriki
That is with Shadow Form. That works against EVERYTHING.
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Originally Posted by Sabe
Lol I feel sorry for Skuld in this thread. Come on guys surely you have seen how much damage a warrior does compared to a straight ele
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Originally Posted by ensoriki
A fire elementalist kills far better than a warrior can ever hope to. the thing with warriors isn't that they are killing machines, but that they can survive major attacks without needing defensive skills while they do decent damage.
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Caster dont have to deal with kiting as much more of there attacks are going to hit (unless using alot of AoE spells) it matters alot less if they are snared, but it does matter if they are drained of energy or the're shutdown.
If anything Casters are Easier to shutdown than Warriors, all u need is a KD or an interupt and u can cause real problems to Casters and Daze causes even more of a problem, Casters only real counter to Warriors are Blinds or Blocks. (Note ive ignored Hexes here since Hexes are good against both)
With no skills against a foe with no skills, Melee classes are going to do more damage there is no denying that
With skills against a foe with skills, a Caster is going to do more damage
Although alot less a problem in PvP, warriors suffer alot against targets with High AL, Casters suffer alot less especially ones with AL ignoring damage.
I wouldnt say Casters or Melee have it too good, A defeats B defeats C defeats A, Gw was made with lotsa of different skills for this very reason, use them wisely
Cebe
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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
For PvP, the melee is king - generally warriors are seen as the masters of damage. Melee can spike better, deals more (and more consistent) damage, can provide utility and KD on the side, and gets to Deep Wound stuff with abandon.
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Sure, if a warrior brings the right skills they're very tough to take down and if they bring the right skills they can deal a fair bit of damage quite fast but at the same time they're much easier to shut down than casters.
I don't think casters do have it "too good"...I see the balance as being reasonable...Although, being a castery kind of person, I generally work better with an all-caster team, save General Morgahn, since Paragon buffs are useful. Most of Hard Mode so far has been done without the aid of a warrior, sin, ranger or dervish...although I'm thinking a Broad Head Arrow ranger wouldn't go a-miss for some of the later factions bosses. *cough* Wavecrest Stonebreak *cough*.
If only I could find a ranger worthy enough...
Xethrion
My Dragon Slash warrior pwns Jade Bows faster than any ele can. A constant string of +42 dmg skills on 33% IAS literally means I'm hitting 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 continuously til he drops, when FGJ! is active. I'd like to see any caster beat that.
PS : Do note that almost all of your PvP examples are taken from low end arenas, where the lack of a organized team most of the time makes sure that your anti-melee countermeasures stick.
However, when you go to more demanding forms of PvP, with characters dedicated to keeping Warriors clean of anti-melee conditions, Warriors are the most scary characters on the battlefield, BY FAR.
Have you ever wondered why there so many anti-melee countermeasures, as well as why top guild teams go to such lengths to keep their warriors clean of them? It's because the damage they can do outclasses almost anything else, even with the extra effort.
PS : Do note that almost all of your PvP examples are taken from low end arenas, where the lack of a organized team most of the time makes sure that your anti-melee countermeasures stick.
However, when you go to more demanding forms of PvP, with characters dedicated to keeping Warriors clean of anti-melee conditions, Warriors are the most scary characters on the battlefield, BY FAR.
Have you ever wondered why there so many anti-melee countermeasures, as well as why top guild teams go to such lengths to keep their warriors clean of them? It's because the damage they can do outclasses almost anything else, even with the extra effort.
Cebe
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Originally Posted by Xethrion
My Dragon Slash warrior pwns Jade Bows faster than any ele can. A constant string of +42 dmg skills on 33% IAS literally means I'm hitting 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 continuously til he drops, when FGJ! is active. I'd like to see any caster beat that.
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But casters don't have the added complication of Whirling Defense.