Shiro Weapons..RQ 13?? 13??

Yeah, it has "And rain firestorm at them as they slowly limp away cripled" quality

Well, as thats 14 months old now, why post it now?

or even better, lets see it now...

you know, i woke up this morning and got slapped by this thread by 6 different guildies all laughing thier arses off reading it... maybe i should go back to bed, wake up tomorrow and maybe it'll be closed and confined to the annuls of history

E/A Vs A/X. Who will win?
He use [skill]Shadow Of Haste[/skill]. He can't teleport out of battle as he wants. Critical skills is much better than energy storage.

Why is Shiro's Blade the same as Shiro's Sword? Shiro's Blade == 2 Shiro's Sword, so it should be vamp 6/-2.

yeah, i also remember dreaming about "dual wielding" on the run up to Factions release...

the idea of Dual Wielding two swords, or two axes... but then they made daggers just to handed, i cried a little inside

Top guilds are top guilds for a reason. They know what works, and they know what doesn't work. They have done the math, have tested the shit out of everything, and use what works. They don't use elementalist primary for assassins because they know it sucks. No one is going to be taken by surprise by an elementalist with daggers - because it's not going to do enough damage to take them by surprise. They will laugh, and wipe you. The reason they use 'cookie cutter' builds is because they run what works best in the current metagame - and builds end up looking similar. True, some just ride another guilds build up the ladder, but most, unlike you, understand the game.

I think his point is that they aren't overpowered. Sarcasm is hard to detect on forums though, so I can't blame you for missing it.

Loki, no need to be harsh. Wildmouse failed, but... Well, that's a game, uh? Give him a break...
The topic is on req of Shiro's daggers, not how wildmouse's build is poor.

I think there fine as Req 13, much more sensible than req15. there req 13 because Shiro was Leet, far superior to any of the other Green drop bosses. Most Warriors/Assassin have 13 or more in their Weapon anyways and non Sin/Wars are too "sissy" to wield the weapons

I feel i must stop and defend my ritualist, better sin than most

[skill]Spirit's Strength[/skill] anybody?

Why are they req 13? Flavor. The game needs some of it in minor ways like this.

Spirit's Strength blows, you're a 60 AL melee character with no defense what-so-ever, no energy management..

Amen to that. Amen.

I think the high req. might have something to do with peoples' speculation about the corellation between requirements and damage output. Factions was released a long time ago and people were still arguing about requirement vs. critical hits and if the weapons belonging to the toughest boss at the climax of the game are high req, people might change their minds.

A subtle way of telling us that reqs.7, 8 and 9 aren't better for damage.

That alone is why I think they're req. 13 and yes we need a few more little items of uniqueness.

Dunno.

I always liked the fact that people though that low Q weapons are statistically better than high Q ones.

It allowed to sell stuff high and buy trully usefull stuff low.

I miss old days of selling r8 15^50 zodiac daggers to rebuy r12 version for tiny fraction of their price (and getting fow chest piece with rest of money, then doing same with Q 8 hammer to get FoW legins ;p)

The misuse of 'Q' is making me Q_Q.

Am i the only person that didnt get the memo?

Since when have we started using the letter Q for req?

since we got a 31 character limit in the trade panel and people wanted to save space

How does Q save space over R?

This is one of those IdIOt fashions thought up by 11 yr olds.

Q or R or Req whatever! Who cares! You all clearly know what it means so why does it matter?

On topic, Shiro's Blades and Shiro's Sword are fine the way they are. They were made that way to have an elite feel to them because they come from an end game boss. If your not an assassin primary, you probably shouldn't be using daggers anyways. If you are really struggling with energy on the sin, try taking zealous daggers and bumping up your critical strikes.

The E/A build utilizing the energy pool of the Ele has been used for EVERY profession. At least the core ones. Back when the game first came out people were running around as E/whatevers(E/Mo mostly) claiming to be monks, or mesmers or necros or whatever. I know, I used to act like a Monk when a Monk was hard to come by back in the day. The point is, all those ideas were and still are horrible...

Wow, obviously someone using different abreviation than you is 11 year old.

Guess that hollier-than-you cant get any hollier.

Yeah, but there is difference between people who eventually figured out why it was horrible and between those who didnt (or who refused to because of some snowflake thing.)

It is only that way for lore reasons. Most sins run high dagger mastery (if they go hit and run) so I don't understand what is the problem.

I'm waiting for someone to give a good reason as to why your using vampiric sword/daggers without having more than 13/14 in your weapon mastery...
Until then... quit whining. It means nothing.

people use to KNOW the earth was flat, till they learned better. people use to KNOW the earth was the center of the universe untill they learned better. - people use to ignore the necro in PvP for nearly after 2 years, untill they figured out how to exploit it and then every top 100 guild used them almost exclusively...

if you're too narrow minded to see that any damage given up by haveing 12 daggers instead of 13 - can be made up for by carrying an el spell - then you deserve to live your life stareing at walls and drooling all over yourself. they don't laugh and then wipe me out - they don't even see the daggers untill they start attacking other people in my group and i switch off my staff - and then they just die....

this character is over a year old - i have 8 characters in total, have beaten the game at every level, includeing PvP - i would not still have the character if she got smoked at the start of every fight and wasn't effective. - you can't even see past "13 daggers gives me 3 more dmg then 12 does, so you must suck", so sry i don't accept that anyone that narrowminded understands how to tie their own shoe, let alone the game's mechanics better then i do.


i posted the link to support my claim that el's can be played as sins too. - i didn't look the post over, so i didn't know exactly what i had back then. which was at the start of sins and most people didn't comprehend the fact that sins can't tank.

currently the build is

[skill]Teinai's prison[/skill][skill]Black mantis thrust[/skill][skill]wild strike[/skill][skill]repeating strike[/skill][skill]death blossom[/skill][skill]lightning touch[/skill][skill]recall[/skill][skill]shadow refuge[/skill]

daggers - 12: ES 11 (7+1+3): A 8 (7+1): w 2 (1+1): shadow 5


again, whatever dmg i give up on the daggers is made up for with the touch. the touch and blossom gives a nice 100 aoe dmg to help out my group with their targets as well.

again 60 al doesn't matter when you play the sin right and avoid dmg like your supose too... and how do you know he has no defense and no energy management? he only posted 1 skill.

and to whoever brought up firestorm - you got that from the el build for this character, not the sin build.. i haven't used her as an el for a long time.

fact of the matter to all of you, is that sin secondaries do play just as well as sin primaries with several of the other classes - the sin has caster level health and caster level armor; what you give up in crit strikes, and that 1 extra level in dagger mastery can and is made up for with the stuff the other classes have to offer. - you just have to understand the games mechanics to be able to comprehend it.

Deep wound > lightning touch.

I don't think that build is going to convince anyone. Might as well go Shadow Prison.

Ok, lets do maths for your (cough) assassin.
lead - +18 damage
off1 - +30 damage
off2 - +26 damage
dual - 2x40
touch - +37 + 26
dagger attacks + 60
---

277 damage - that is HARDLY killing power.

on aoe: + 2x40 + 37 + 26
total of 143, from which 1/2 is armor dependant.

You seem to do sucky damage. recall out there (was it random? skill put on skillbar?), do what, nothing?

This chain takes, what, 7 seconds? Your snare and trigger for AOE is 30 second recharge and has 2 second casting time. 35 energy cost is only decent thing about it (NOT).

Prohenix + Inferno does exactly same but faster (and with same recharge as your combo), you use only two skillots for that, can have actuall enamagement for attunement, and dont have to spread attributes.

(and btw, if you use repeating strike to get DPS, you kinda fail and should see what moebius+deaths blossom can do.).

Your stories about people taken by sursprise are very WTF. you had at least some team support, people can simply run away from 2/3 of your spike attempts. You simply were supported by damage comming from your group. Problem is, no assassin should need that.

If we do math again pro primary sin (since you used sup rune, so will this):

lead - 21
off1 - 37
off2 - 31
dual - 2x47

follow with moebius + 37

300 damage (base damage + at least one crit inluded) already better, most of it armor ignoring, and all that goodness.

from now on, you can SPAM 94 armor ignoring AOE damage every 3 seconds and 131 on target (once target is under 50 its every 2 seconds).

granted your other attibutes are 13 crit strikes and you take critical eye/zealouos dagges, you never run out of energy, ever, even without crit eye/zealous daggers you will drain your energy slow enough.

and there goes last reason why you are E/A.

your build simply cant do aoe damage on that level of awesomenes. both pure assassin and pure elementalist surpases it.

Also, you can never fit IAS skill in your build, unlike pure assassin who can use any secondary ias he chooses.

---

Do us favor, run Dummy test on your build. make video, prove yourselves when math failed.

My 2 gold pieces is that you should be able to choose a weapon for either your main, or secondary profession. If the reqs were at least level 12 that would work or me. I have several characters but at the moment I spend most of my time playing a minion bomber on my Rt/N. Since most of my spawning powers last longer then the recharge I don't need a spawning staff. I'd rather take the death one.

Now I know there are plenty of death staffs out there, but if somebody takes the time to beat the game they might as well be allowed to choose a reward from either proffesion.

Before anybody says "just farm for a different staff", well i'm not that lucky. I've gotten 2 gold drops in the past 3 months. Both of them were merc trash. Buying one isn't really an option at the moment either unless I want to chance buy unids.

Anyway before I get to far off topic, I agree. *Nuff Said*

yeah guys... try to stay on the topic please...

People never ignored Necros. They've always been used. They've been used since beta, and two very, very common builds I can name off the top of my head, that were used before the first GWWC even took place, are Ranger Spike and IWAY. Both used necros, both were very popular about 6 months after prophecies release.

You not only reduce your dagger mastery to 12, but you needlessly remove 10AL from your base armour and deny yourself critical strikes. If you cannot see the impact of not having critical strikes and another 10AL on an assassin, I see no point in actually continuing here. You are an idiot.

If you understood game mechanics, you wouldn't be running a dagger elementalist.

This thread seems to have become a pissing match. The OP wanted to know why Shiro's Weapons that you trade for an Amulet of the Mists in the Divine Path are Q (Or R as this thread has become an English Class too) 13 and not Q/R/Req 9 like all the other greens in the game. Everyone should be smart enough to know that the Higher your attributes are in a skill the higher you damage will be. Lets say you bring 16 Dagger Mastery and you have a Q/R/Req9 7-17 Pair of Daggers. Are you going to do more Damage to your Foe if your Daggers were Q/R/Req 13 with the same 16 Attributes? As far as am aware of the answer is no. A Q/R/Req 9 set of daggers will do the same amount of damage as a Q/R/Req 13 at 16 Dagger Mastery. Thus a Q/R/Req 9 set of Max daggers would be more sought after due to the fact that it is more flexible with more build setups. Lets say you wanted to put more attributes in Critical Strikes and wanted to bring Dagger Mastery down to 12 and bring CS up with a certain build. Shiro Weapons should be Q/R/Req 9 to ad flexibility to the weapon. That is why Lower Q/R/Req is more valuable than Higher simply because lower Q/R/Req at Max Damage is more Flexible and the weapon can be used in more situations.

it is 100% bs that shiro daggers are r13, it is completely irrational and pointless to do that. meh, but w/e im content with using my r9 slashing vamp weps > shiros neways.

Oh my god... your flaming people that actually know how to play ASWELL as know how the game mechanics work now?

From your post count I can tell your new here, so please, either stump up who you actually are (as i'd put money on you being banned before) or just shut up...

there are actually PvP'ers in this thread defending one little bit of roleplay that ANet put into the game... not to mention the HUGE benefit that 13 Dagger mastery gives over 9 Dagger mastery to your skills... and yes, i would run a vamp weapon if it was Shiro's Blades (or sword for that matter) as my damage output from the dagger combo would be much higher from 13 than from the 9 of a normal set of daggers (or Swordsmanship if your using the Shiro Blade on a Warrior of course...

now I try to be helpful here, i try so desperatly hard not to flame people, because i know that Swampgirl and inde would boot my butt out the door for a week for doing it, but you and some of the others in this thread are idiots

Whine more please, and maybe one day you'll be on par with the PvP group complaining about skill balance ^^

LoneSamurai... i wasnt flaming Lothlorian and moldyrice... i was just stating they knew what they were talking about. and of course 13 dagger mastery will give you an advantage over 9 dagger mastery.. but 13 dagger mastery with a 13 req weapon will not give you an advantage over 13 dagger mastery with a 9 req weapon.

Hey what's this oh it's the forum rules

Why is this thread still open? The question is why do the weapons have such a high requirement, and the answer is flavor. This was totally covered like five pages ago.

OMG HOW MY ASSASSIN WITH 14-16 DAGGER MASTERY EVER USE VAMP Dgrz, HOW DIS HAPPEN OMFG

I lol'ed. I'm still on the lookout for more later.

Double Posting is very Taboo in most Forums including this one. I agree that it is very silly for Shiro Weapons to be Req 13. I guess it is just a RPG thing to make sure the weapons are only used by a Primary. The OP should understand that Double Posting only makes him look childish and invites others to further flame his topic and make him look bad in the community. It also does little to get his point across.

Shiro's weapons USED to have a requirement of 15, so stop complaining. Weapon requirement DOES not affect damage so long as you meet it. You should meet that requirement all the time as a sin or warrior anyway (unless you want to use your shiro's blade on your leet R/W server artery tasher)

Lothorian may have a point and maybe I have had to many posts. I will delete my old posts that have nothing to do with the argument over this topic. I apologize to everyone as well.. I was just trying to defend my argument that secondary professions should be able to use Shiro weapons. The last thing I want is to look childish.. people might get the idea that I play video games.. anyway.. the facts are that if the req was dropped all it would effect is giving primary warriors/sins who use the weapons the flexiblity of allocating attribute points towards another attribute.. it wouldnt effect game play in any other way except that secondary warrior/sin professions would be able to use them and be happy with the weapons.

Stop stating opinions as facts. No decent Warrior or Assassin using their sword/daggers has less than 13 in their weapon mastery, generally 14 (12+headgear+minor rune). This changes things, how? They need the high weapon mastery to deal base and skill damage, else they're just subpar.