Plz allow us to use Sunspear skills on heroes?

I don't know why people continue to respond to you as if you actually had a relevant argument, but now you are just trolling.

Letting heroes use these insanely cheap skills would be idiotic, and for a lot of PvE'ers, I am certain it would remove any incentive left to actually get together with real people.

I hate heroes enough as it is. I always PUG whenever possible - I enjoy interaction with actual humans and the sense of team accomplishment when we win, and yes, even the randomness of it.

I would hate to see PUGs slowly start to die off just because anyone who's done Nightfall or grinded for faction now has a perma-party of godlike automatons at their every beck and call.

Whether or not heroes can use these skills I will still only very rarely pug, especially in normal mode. All of the missions on normal mode (yes, including the RoT missions) are already easy for me with heroes, so I don't need other human players for them with or without the new skills.

But finding a group to go play the game in HM is just too difficult, and that is why I would like it if heroes could have them. Even if heroes could use them only in hard mode I would be happy.

Definitely /notsigned, because it would be another nail in the coffin for social interaction in the game. And for me that's one (if not the main) reason why I play online games.

I agree that it'd effectively render PUGs useless... But I recently had some experience with PUGs and can say that some are great. In one PUG, we missed master's in Raisu by a minute and easily got master's against Shiro. In another, it seemed like the Monks must have had Heal Area... And other members had vampiric weapons and they wouldn't switch out of them while outside of battle... Thus they kept losing health when we weren't even in battle. Needless to say, we were pwned by some titans in Hell's Precipice.

I later went through it with my guild and we had no problem. I must agree with those that say PUGs are unattractive because of the bad PUGs, not because of heroes.

Not to mention that it'll be very hard to find a PUG willing to vanquish an area. I actually haven't seen many people in towns asking about doing so. In terms of vanquishing, I'd love these skills on my heroes... However, I would still love doing missions with my guild (even if heroes could use the skills). They're great to play with.

In my opinion, if you want social interaction in GW, get a great guild.

Pugs died around the release of Factions - the only time they live is immediately after release. The new players want veterans to help them and if you are a decent player you quickly get ahead of the bad players meaning most of your PUGS are decent. But then the outposts are VERY different socially then also - it was interesting watching the differences if you could make it to the end missions within the first week.

Heroes have nothing to do with it, we play games to have fun. PUG's are not fun for the vast majority of gamers. Spreading the misery to AI players isn't going to suddenly make PUG's attractive - it will drive people away from the game.

Look at the posts here - the ones wanting their heroes to have the skills are NOT going suddenly form groups because humans can have them. The only people that think (and IMO it is more hope) it may are the ones who hate the AI and want only human groups. If you make the majority of gamers feel crapped on they aren't going to go play what they feel is even crappier - they leave. That's not to say they will *never* PUG, but if you make their normal mode of play not fun they aren't going to experiment and goof off in others. In fact, it is quickly apparent that they *reduce* PUG'ing - too many "rank X or better only", even though I have max SS and one off max LB I can assure you that I do not want to socially interact with that group..

As I have said before, higher numbers playing the game benefit everyone. Sure, there will be WAY more people with 8's floating above their heads that are only AI, however those people will PUG from time to time when they have nothing better to do (I do sometimes, though almost every time I do it just reaffirms why I hate them).

For some reason a large glut of people want to tell others how to have fun and force their play on everyone. Unfortunately for that idea, there is always the "leave" choice. The more options you give gamers to play the more people you are likely to have playing, cutting out (or only giving one play style something) isn't a short *or* long term viable strategy. At some point I think Anet will figure this out and allow more hench/hero play options - you can not force people to play the game in the manner you want.

Letting heros use these skills would make things even easier... I'd just run everything with Mesmer secondary for Cry of Pain and bring along a Morgahn armed to the teeth with PvE only defensive shouts.

There actually has to be a reason to team up with real people you know.

The PUG is dead, RIP the PUG.

Not only do we want these skills on our heros but we also should be able to have the raisu palace skills on our heros bar when in the mission. Just leave an open slot on their bars and when you get your skills their skill will be put on as well.

Seriously people PVE PUGs just provide way to much heartache for most experienced people these days. The more we bring heros in line with actual players the better.

Ok, these skills have been out in the wild now for a few days and are obviously quite good - is there a wave of people looking to PUG or has it stayed pretty much the same? There has been MORE than enough time for a change to occur and if it hasn't by now it isn't likely going to suddenly pick up on Monday or Tuesday (weekend being the largest amount of play time).

In my experience no difference, well except that the many of the groups forming now have something else to add in for elitism. People are only grouping in missions where you need more team coordination than the AI can provide (say, splitting you team up and needing each one to work independently or where you have one runner and the rest of the team as a distraction - neither scenario is affected at all by the skills either).

I would reluctantly agree if it did increase PUG'ing - I would prefer all types of play be around, but so far the system seems to have made one group of players (and by far the largest group) angry in an effort to make another group momentarily feel better but have no effect. PUG's are dead because the way PUG's work, adding in some skills isn't going to help.

strcpy, I agree. With or without these skills I'm still not going to PuG (except when I feel masochistic), and from what I know about a lot of the people who play this game I can tell there are many more who feel the same way. Why should we be restricted from playing the game the way we want to play it?

a big fat not signed. Didn't think heroes have a sunspear ranking, so how can they use sunspear skills?

my thoughts exactly.

Pugs has been bad because we cannot kick players out of a party once in the game. This is the natural downside of instances. Halfway through the mission there will always be jerks that go afk and leech off the rest of the players. And there is no recourse other than to complete the mission or leave and regroup and HOPE that no jerk joins again and lose the time spent on the first try.

As of right now, you wait hours to just get people together, then only later find out that half the players are terrible or plain leeches. Experienced players does not want to waste time to deal with this.

Imo, it would boost pug popularity among experienced players if somehow we can remove players in the game through a vote and/or allow adding players while inside an instance.

Since when did they have a Lightbringer rank? They don't, but they still gain the bonus from the title when it is selected to be shown by a player. Granted, they still don't have the LB skills, but I think that they should and it should correspond to the player's rank, who is able to control the heroes.

Heroes have a Lightbringer ranking, it just matches your own. I fail to see why this could not be the case for Sunspear ranks as well.

/Signed for the same reason. here i was thinking they Could use them :O

Some of heroes are actually Sunspears, I mean Koss, Dunkoro, Melonni so I don't see why at least they could not use sunspear skills. By the way I think that Margrid should be able to use Corsair's Net skill

/signed

Using that logic, there should be no reason for Dunkoro to be restricted from using them.

/not signed.

The skills are overpowered and the game is easy enough.

IMO the game was a lot more fun when the average player was more effective than the average bot, and kicking a hench and adding a real person to your group actually increased your chances of success. Anything that brings us closer to that is a good thing in my book.

I would have these pve-only skills disabled for normal mode because seriously, NM doesn't need them. However I would have them enabled for both heroes and real players in HM. I'd like to do HM with real players but really, did you people ever try getting a group together for that?

It seems to me everybody against this is thinking of NM and how easy that is. Well, the only time I get a group for HM is within my alliance which is cool and all but I can't expect them all to jump everytime I want them to just so I can do a mission on HM that they've already done.

The only reason I want heroes to have the skills is for HM as well. While I don't think ANet should restrict heroes from having the skills in either mode, personally I'd be happy if they could use them for HM

i'd love it if heroes could use all that stuff (the celestial skills on shiro would be nice...koss, goren, sousake, horsey-dude, whispers...get to work, i'm going to pop across the street for a couple tacos)

i don't necessarilty think it will or should change though since if nothing else it would pieve a bunch of people off (not that these skills give me any incentive to play with others...every once in a while i do and 9/10 times go back to heroes and hench immediately after the ensuing wipe).

pugs can be cool but for every, "this is the most awesome group ever," group you find, there's 10, "how did these guys even manage to install the game?" groups.

/not signed but i would smile if they did change it.

You make more angry by *not* doing it. There are WAY more hero players than PUG'ers.

Heck, I bet most of us would be mostly happy if the heroes got the skills at only half your sunspear/LB rank (Befriending the *** title is already account wide and adjusted accordingly), even better if they have half the points you have farmed (thus they can still get to max rank). At the least most complaints would be much more along the lines of whining, especially if could max their ranks out also.

It would still "encourage" PUG's as much as ever (still waiting for that to happen - it has now been five days and no such thing - must need a week before it kicks in) and we would have access to the skills.

PVE skills were supposed to be relased originaly with hardmode.


Hardmode was probably desgined with PVE SKILLS in mind, because they were SUPPOSED to be developed together and DELIVERED together.

PVE skills came late, but, you get my point.

PVE skills wont break hardmode, I did some vanquishing Ice Floe with a guildgroup, i was running a warrior with crit agility, two war pve skills, monks had seed of life, ect, ele with intensity.
We scraped it with difficulty, and that was with pve skills.

Alot of the mursatt mesmers loved to strip enchantments like intensity and agility, the PVE warrior shout took time to charge, and we still had wipes when it was up, the pve attack sucked most of the time overall, enemys dont bunch up quite as much in Hm.

i must note that we did not have a paragon, the parashout might have changed something, but there is always the odds of one of the monks sneaking it, or a ele, ect

many of the skills are still vulnerable to shutdown that the mobs use, enchantstrip, the odd shout counter in NF, hexes, the works, each area generaly has some trick to it, and even pve skills arent invincible, just good and helpful as any other good skill.

(this guild group was a Xen of Onslaught allience group, that should mean something to those of you that know what XoO is, if you dont, well, find out, but, im going to be nice and summurise.

asideing thier pvp branches, the pve branches require the players having finished all three campains at least once, the total population for this mass guild is high, one of the few guilds that can throw togther complete HM groups on a constant basis)

Point being, we are a experenced guild group with venterilo cordination, with these "broken" pve skills, and it was still hard.

only thing thats going to change about normal mode, is some of the endgame missions, and one or two tough buggers like Jennurs and Grand Court masters, for pure henching of course.

Your post VS Solar Light's post.... hmm, im sorry but XoO wins.

Restricting these skills to HM only and usable by heroes would be perfect.

Restricting something like Never Ramapge Alone to hardmode? thats a laugh.

take a peak at lightbringer signet, crappy pve skill elite with limited use.

the example is, keep stuff like intensity powerful, but, make it elite.

no need to restrict pve skills to hardmode, just tweak for a good degree of balance that keeps the skills USEFUL

you know what i belive is the underlying reason the Razah Fans got the DoA gem reqs removed?

it wasnt the whining that had no good arguement, it was the people that had a good arguement, backed it up, and belived it.


Razah was a vanity thing, but he was also the only ritualist hero, and one of the underlying thing of GW others and myself belive is is the ease of access of the content that Matters, 1.5k and Fow has the same stats in the end, and the PVE skills count the same in my opinon, ALL basic "core" content like heros, skills, ect, shouldnt be restricted, excluded, ect, in the way that goes against the principles of Gw.

the Ss and factions titles kind of smack against it, but the pve skilsl are easy to get, they work at lower levels, sunspear gan get to r7-8 easly and the skills will suffice, and most of the factions PVE skills are subpar. (and i still belive they need tweaking.)

giving the skills to heros wont hurt, if the skills and mechanics are tweaked properly, such as being limited to primary priofessions, the primary atribute linking, turning some of the stronger ones into elites, or make them all elite, and tweak them to be STRONG elites.

And for the love of god, just scrap the ranger skills and make them something that doesnt make me want to upchuck, a halfbaked RaO thumper spinoff will never be better then a warrior or dervisn in PVE in terms of DPS, its just a bad gimmick, rangers work better in pure beastmastery, bow utility like conditions and interupts, and nature spirits, make skills that reflect the rangers best areas, and arent as bad as the old Otyughs Cry.

I don't like the new skills, and a week after their introduction they've left my bar so I don't forsee myself adding them to a hero's bar. All that being said if someone else wants to put the skills on their heroes, the more power to them! I don't need to tell some else how they should be playing the game

/signed

/signed

I don't see why not...Don't want it on heroes? Don't put them on heroes.