Make Sunspear and Factions skills primary profession only, plz!!!

Unsigned, I mean really! Nerf our new skills? Are you high?

These skills should be able to be used by secondary professions.

Please stop this nonsense. If it bothers you that bad just don't play.

This nerf shit is really getting on my nerves, I have half a notion to stop reading these forums, its all depressing nerf crying etc..

ENOUGH!

I disagree on limiting the skills to primaries only and i gave it alot of forethought.

Other players earned their titles the same as me, and likewise, i can use their skills if i so choose. Swings and roundabouts....

and it will be like lightbringer signet: plain not used.

lightbringer signet sucks tho.

/Unsigned

You should be able to use both. It doesn't make much sense to not be able to use the new skills for your second proffesion. I mean you can use all of the others, even the primary ones. Why change these? Besides aren't these PVE only skills? It's not like it affects you. Or at least I don't think so.

Oh yeah I agree that this "OMG Nerf teh guy that owned me" mentality is getting very old. At this rate GW future will be like *all skills do 1 dmg*. Ok maybe not but still.....

I 100% agree with the OP, mostly because there are some professions that can basically use more skills than the others. For example, dervs and warriors can use the assassin skill, assassins and dervs can use the warrior skill. Hell, a tank with a pet could use the Ranger one. Necros, I think mesmers, and possibly smiting monks (not too familiar with them) could use the elem one. The monk one is tied to divine favor and basically *is* primary profession only. The elementalist basically has no reason to use any skill besides its own.

By the same argument people like you would want *all skills do 99999 dmg* and instant kill anything. "OMG Buff ME cuz that creep owned me" and "how dare you even suggest to discuss any changes" mentality is getting old.


Now that was unfair. Arguments like those are irrelevant and does not belong in a thoughtful discussion.

Lets make a game that caters only towards you, if it bother anyone else it doesn't matter. Lets buff everything you have and let other players either make the same characters and the same builds that you make or they can quit the game.

Is it depressing because other players want to argue for their point of view? Maybe you should go live in a bubble.


After thinking about it a bit and playing with the new skills on my characters, I have reached a new conclusion: Primary and secondary should be allowed to use these skills, but only if there is a reduced benefit in using one of these new sunspear/faction skills from a secondary. Anet can tie it to a secondary attribute like current skills do, or they can simply put in a hard limit as to the effectiveness of a sunspear skill from a secondary class. In the first case, the secondary sunspear skill should be AS effective as a primary IF they invest in that particular attribute line (Not including runes). This is a sacrificial cost that all current skills from a secondary class must go through, so why not sunspear skills?

Look for example at the current Warrior/Monk. You have some benefit of self healing, but its never as good in healing as a primary monk. This is the point some people are arguing. The current sunspear skills have no distinguishment on secondary and primary, so a Warrior/Mo can have a sunspear skill just as effective as a Primary Monk.

Anet has stated that they want some of the underplayed classess to be more accepted in PvE. Well If there is no difference in the effectiveness between a primary and a secondary, the underplayed class still will not be accepted in any meaningful way.

So it comes down that Anet have three choices,
1). Restrict to primary profession
2). Tie the skills to an attribute
3). Hard limit the effectiveness of sunspear skill from a secondary

1&3 are hard and easy to implement, but #2 is elegant and could lead to more variety.

It don't friggin matter if secondary profession can use these skills people...THESE ARE PVE ONLY!

They don't affect other people AT ALL!

Simply don't use them by your secondary profession if you feel that elite.

Some of us really appreciate the fact that we have these new skills and also appreciate the fact that we can use them by our secondary professions. I am grateful that anet allowed us the ability to use the secondary ones as well. I play alot in advanced areas of the game and PVP'ers have ruined the rest of our good skills so lets not ruin these since PVP is totally unaffected by these. I dislike having inferior skills to level 30 monsters with super high armor etc, these are just what the doctor ordered.

/unsigned

I firmly believe all skills should be learnable by all professions. But maybe link them to the primary attribute somehow so that primaries get a benefit

/signed

Allowing these skills on the primaries only makes sense.

lol sure thing , how about remove sub classes altogether? i mean i can still make an e/me with load of counters and hexes, and u can do a me/e that FS nukes things.... the things ppl demand sometimes are amazing really

It affects people whose primary profession is being immensely overshadowed by other professions because a supposed skill for this profession works JUST AS WELL on a different profession WITHOUT INVESTING in any attributes.

Anet stated that there goal was to increase the popularity and acceptance of underplayed classess, without any sort of downside to using a sunspear skill on a secondary they have completetly failed their goal and instead made the popular classess even easier to play with as there is aboslutly no point when you can just tack on the skill that is 100% effective.

I just wish all the skills gave a half-decent amount of cross-profession synergy, at least as much as some.

Because, a Paragon r10 sunspear can use both its Sunspear skill, plus the warrior's Luxon skill, which gives +100 armor for 5 seconds with 6 strikes of adreniline.

First of all, I want to say that I really respect all the opinions here, but, I bet that almost everyone that doesn't agree here do not play with a Mesmer and/or a Paragon as the main PVE character.

I'm not saying that everyone that do not agree with me are at the "bad" side or the wrong side of this, but what I was trying to say in this thread is that, this PVE-only skills are one of the biggest hopes of "new and better PVE times" for most of the PVE Mesmers and Paragons, and, after so many hope and expectation, we discovered that this PVE skills that had the possibility to make us more unique and desired in the game, can be used by anyone!!!

Sorry if I was a little bit rude, I just want to make my opinion clear

By the way,I am also hoping that Gaile Gray read this and give some feedback

If you been playing this game and have not noticed that a primary profession can do things much better than if it were a secondary profession. Your e/me is not as at things a Me/e can do and vice versa. But these skills makes E/me Just as effective at things a Me/e BUT since Me are despised in PvE, It does nothing to alleviate the memser hate in PvE.

And a warrior is much more preferred than Paragon in a party, and He can use both those skills. So who wants a paragon again?

As much as I love having access to two of these skills at once, the OP is right. Anet intended these skills to help out less played classes (Mesmer and Paragon) but they won't get any more groups than before if another class can use their skills just as well.

i dont understand why u guys think that the mesmer ss skill will get them into partys its just a conditional cry of frustration with more dmg.

Because a warrior doesn't have the energy to use the skills. A paragon with leadership for e-management (since both skills are shouts).

Sry for the double jost but judgedread's post occured while I was writing my first post. The kurzick/luxon one is nice -5 to -8 degen in an aoe affect.

Nice to see so much research went into these skills before the discusion started. The update was live for, what, 10 minutes?

Me, I say /unsigned. I see no reason for these skills to not be used by primary and secondary.

/signet, even though I like cramming all 4 Dervish+sin skills on my dervish and going atomic on mobs.
Either it changes or every single tank in the game will be W/P. EVERY SINGLE.

/notsigned

Thats the whole of having secondary profession in GW.

yes, those skills are highly overpowered, i feel like i can equip 5 elite skills on me

/halfsigned

I think they should be based on Sunspear (or Luxon/Kurzick) and the Primary attirbute of your primary profession. One aspect could be increased by Sunspear/Kurzick/Luxon Ranks. One aspect could be increased by your Primary Attribute Rank. There, that's very logical and even secondaries could use it to SOME effect. Very simple.

Otherwise leave it as is. There's probably nothing wrong with the system as it stands. But if people are going to whine to no ends, just do what I said above, and we got it covered. Watch as people whine if they change it...

No it isn't, because you have to invest attribute points for your other secondary profession skills to be worth it. Not so with these skills.

and those overpowered skills are unfair for ppl dont have faction and nightfall.....

agreed! These skills are leagues better than elites (some of them) and adding to the fact that they're not elites AND not getting tied to an attribute makes them real problematic. Secondaries becomes just as effective as primary, and being non elites, there is no problem just stacking all of them on to the bar...

Like other said: TIE it to an attribute.

HOPEFULLY anet is looking at this :-)

Secondary Monks get no benefit from the Monk SS skill. Smiting Monks get little benefit from the SS skill, as they do from Divine Favor in general. Ranger skill REQUIRES a pet, which means 3 skills slots used for 1 skill (Charm, Comfort, and SS). I see a lot of issues, and have not used all the skills yet. Some I love, because they are overpowered. Necro and Assassin SS skills are amazingly fun and effective.

I agree that the use of these skills should be designed for primary class characters. But I also think secondaries should be able to sue them, and they can already use skills from the primary attribute of a secondary class. (N/Mo uses Healer's Boon at times)

Making the skills require title track points and primary attribute points is a fair way of doing this. Monk SS skill already does, and the Assassin SS skill is leaning that way.

/signed for making them rely on primary attribute

/unsigned

The significant power boosts classes can get from their secondary SS skills along with their primary can put more diversity into groups. A great example is a mesmer one of the least wanted classes in groups a me/e with intensity can do great damage with spells and has fastcasting to boot allowing it to be able to replace an ele in groups(well pugs at least).

By themselves some of the skills are rediculous e.g. the warrior one whirlwind attack basically a cyclone axe with adrenaline but along with critcial agility you attack more foes at once(and faster) increasing your chance for a critical and renewing the critical agility, this goes the same for assassain's they dont have a real aoe melee attack this is were whirlwind attack shines if a sin gets surrounded you can use it to get the enemies away from you.

Some of these skills aren't even good enough for primary professions to use. Limit the Ranger to the skills of its own profession and you might aswell of just not given us any.

/UNsigned

you can only ever equip two of them. Since they are PvE only, other players aren't harmed by your use of them. I say leave them as is.

/Signed, if the ranger actually gets a worthwhile skill...

The ranger skills have little chance of getting on most rangers bars - the SS one requires a pet (charm animal) for a bad mending and IAS = pretty much useless vs troll unguent and a good stance.

The factions skill requires a huge grind for the same amount of damage as dual shot, the only place this skill would feature would be in conjure or weapon skill builds...

Whereas the Warrior faction and SS skills go well with just about any build, etc

Apart from the fact that people will be forced mroe than ever into one or two cookie cutter builds in their cookie cutter teams, and the professions these were brought to save will get even less love, as other professions can take their precious new skills...

/signed, but I'd prefer they just did away with them entirely.

I cringed when I saw how ludicrously overpowered many of these are. I guess we can say goodbye to variety in PvE builds from now on.

They utterly destroy the nice balance we had of 1 elite + 7 "normal" skills, and I don't think people really appreciate how bad these skills are going to be for the PvE game (which is now going to be dominated by a horrible grind to raise your kurzick/luxon)

What the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO happened to the idea of GW being a game of "skill" and not grind?

15 e every 10 seconds is way too much for any class except paragon to spam (leadership ftw). /not signed.

It would be nice if they all worked similar to the monk SS skill, where the major defining effect of the skill would depend on the rank of your primary attribute.

For instance:

Intensity - For 15 seconds, your spells deal (15...23%) more damage. This enchantment works on 1 spell for each rank you have in Energy Storage (minimum 1).

Nothing to fear - For 10 seconds, all allies within earshot take 2% less damage for each rank in Leadership (minimum 2%). Affected allies are healed for (20...52) Health when this shout ends.

That way, there is still an amount of effect based on the title track, but the brunt of the skill is based on the primary - making the skill mostly valuable to the primary class, and mildly usable by any secondary.

Maybe make it so that if you're using the skill from your secondary, give it the normal level minus 2, so it's not as efficient as the primary using it.

When GW:EN comes out with it's 100 PvE skills, the best PvE skill bars are probably going to consist of almost entirely PvE skills.

Frankly, the Sun Spear ones are hardly difficult to get (A Land of Heroes anyone?), and the Luxon/Kurzick ones just take some time. It's very easy to just make a PvP character, get 3k (assuming you first get the 100k) and then take the character you want the skill on to your guild hall.

/not signed all professions should be able to use each skill, and i find it quite funny that these new skills will get mesmers etc into pugs lmao i dont think, i never pug i always explore with guildies and heros they are a hell of alot better than pugs.