Retroactive Luxon/Kurzick allegiance title track?

lol @ all the people whining for double dipping.

Deal with it. You don't deserve to get retro compensated. It's a new feature, move forward with it, not whine about what you could have gotten back in the day.

ok the argument that I dont understand from the posters here is: before the update I turned in my faction for jade/amber and I could sell it....well guess what I can STILL turn in my faction and get jade/amber and sell it, but now I also get alliance (?) points for getting that jade/amber.
So my problem is if they make it retro what harm would it do, yes I turned in my points for gems....and may have sold them or whatever----that has not changed!!! I can still do it now!
So why cant we get the points retro (like the did for cartographer) since factions is more than a year old and not that many people who arent part of some alliance are going to want to grind out faction points for these new skills.

Not that I really want any of these skills, but if I did---I still wouldnt want to grind out faction to get them!

about people who gave faction to their guild and made fat cash due to discount prices is just retarded thinking. how many alliances that have faction actually control towns? I bet the there are a ton more alliance with faction that don't control towns that those that do.

ok, so the systems is unfair right now, and making it retroactive won't make it any more balanced either. people either lose time or money.

my question is, what about those that didn't give to their guild nor got/sold amber. Sure I made 30k or so selling it at 2k, but after it hit 700 gold or so it just wasn't worth it to grind for faction. Instead i farmed greens, all i got from that was money. If i had known about the skills, i definitely would have done either of the two. But either way, as it is now or making it retroactive, people like me just get boned hardcore.

so no matter what, at least one type of person gets the shaft. even if they make a brand new track that starts everyone at zero, those faction farmed and have to skills at good ranks now will be pissed because they will lose that.

the lesser of the evils would be to make a new title, since nobody would be able to complain about unfair advantage, he has them and i dont, blah blah.

Oh, and no matter what, the current title that the skills are tied to should be changed. I took my tyrian ranger throught NF, didn't farm a bit for sunspear rank (this was after they removed the sunspear general req) and I ended up getting rank 7 sunspear, not bad. On the otherhand, if go through factions, even now, and hell ill be generous and say i farm for one of the 15k armors, that will give 70k faction towards my title, not even rank 1. that's total bullshit.

Cartographer was not retroeactive, its thre mechanims that counts the amount of pixels explored of the map, not that you have actually been around there after the title was activated. The argument that that was retroactive doesn't hold (IMO). The same for protector titles, you would have gained it immeadiately if you would have don the missions and bonusses before and you wouldn't have to redo them, nothing retroactive about that, its just the mechnism of how the totle works Skill hunter idem dito.

Nice, amount of grind just got cut down to half.

But now people who farmed factions for title just got quite screwed up.

ahem, no. People gain, they loose nothing. Even the donators gain some by using the formula i posted. mkay?

Why havent A-net commented on this? (in particular Gaile)

can any one answer this how much time it take you to get the first rank?

Nonsense, because to benefit from the new system you still need to play games that give faction. So everyone benefits.

Correct.

What I meant was that you now get the double faction to your title from donating (which is very nice imo) but people who already maxed their titles farmed like 5 million too much as the rules were changed once again.

We all made choices along the way; Give to a Guild or Alliance or Give to Ourselves. Those who chose to buy jade or amber got something in return for it, either money or good armor. Those who gave to Guild or Alliance were working for a title and they earned that. We made our choices and we all have to live with what we chose. I donated 95% of my faction to the Guild, I have no desire for ANET to retroactively give me amber to compensate for my choice. I will live with my choice and so should everyone else.

I don't think anyone really has an issue with that. It has little to nothing to do with living with choices made by players.

The issue are the new skills and their benefits, not the prior choices made by players. In any event, I don't think much is going to be done on this issue other than the recent update.

Just out of curiosity, because of those choices you made previously, do you think you're entitled to the new skills and the respective level of effectiveness, or are you just lucky in those skills being tied to a title that you happened to work on? Just wondering.

Probably lucky, but I could just as well decided to go for the amber and would have been ok with that also.

Personally, I didn't earn all that much faction, so I'm not that affected either way, but for those that did, I can imagine it being painful. The group that is lucky should appreciate their good fortune. I can understand that they don't want their hard-earned titles to be diluted, but the corresponding demands for amber and jade do seem unappreciative of their good fortune and downright petty.

One of the key differences here is the fact that the game has the information it needs stored already.

If a new title is introduced that for instance counts the number of a particular species you kill, you can't be retrospectively awarded kills towards the title because the mechanics were never in place.

Where the information does exist however, I believe a retrospective count should be made - When the survivor title was introduced (something which the game had kept track of) was that previously useless recorded information used? Yes it was - "sorry you have died, no you can't progress any further"

Same should apply here.

Why should you get the title when you made a choice not to go for it originally. I have over 250,000 faction should I also be given appropriate amount of amber that I would have earned, I think not. Choices were made and things in game change and you live with your choices.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do."
Ben Franklin

Fair games don't change the rules on you while they're in progress. Mechanics is one thing, but rules is something else.

"I'm sorry, you're suddenly 22 points behind instead of just 4. We just decided that home-runs count for 10. Try harder and don't whine."

You don't see that happening in sports, do you?

Because when we chose to not go for the title it was completely useless, so we made the logical choice of going for something that would give an actual benefit. But now that its much more useful than the gold from the amber/jade would be, we are pissed because ANET decided to punish us for making the logical choice by giving a benefit to the people who didn't.

And how exactly are anet punishing those of you that went for the jade/amber instead of donnating to your guild? You made the choice to go for the cash and now you have to live with it.

I must admit, at first I was all for the retroactive addtion to our titles, but now after reading through this post all I seem to see are people whinning becasue they were greedy and wante the money instead of working on the title.

Well now it has changed and some would say that finally they are being given a reward for working on these long, and for some, grueling titles. But oh no, that wont suit the greedy, self centered whiners here will it. They got the best deal money wise when they were getting the rare materials, and now its an absolute outrage that they shouldn't be given their title now.

Oh please.

Now the formula mentioned on previous pages does have some merit and is refreshing to see people actually wanting to think about this situation and come up with positive solutions instead of just calling for blanket changes. Sure it would make them happy, but hell, thats all they seem to care about anyway.

And I am sure the anet dev team feel the same way.

By excluding them from the same rewards as the people going for the title have. Before the update both groups were happy with the rewards they received, but now one group gets a large benefit that the other group doesn't have despite both groups putting in equal work.

Allowing people to exchange for amber/jade and the title probably made things worse because its saying "All that work you put in before doesn't count. However if you do it all over again it will".

Currently I'm thinking that the easiest way for ANET to fix it is for the title to work off the higher of the faction earned or the number the title currently works on. Previously I just thought to work it off faction earned, but then ANET made alliance donations double points meaning the faction earned will become smaller than the title value for most people.

Though going over the database and giving everyone the highest of those two numbers once and then letting things proceed as normal would also work.

The only thing we're trying to point out is~

We where, as players never aware of the implementations of the PvE faction skills.

If we where we would have taken the path to donation, but we where not interested in the titles,and in stead being able to get some decent armor, which is, i remind you, not a necessity, a requirement to be able to play the game comfortably.

The fact that the power of the skills is dictated by your rank in the luxon/kurzick titles is where it goes wrong.

P.S~ thanks for reading the formula

Bumpage

I'd really like to see a dev comment this.

Same thing happened to glad title I think...

/Signed

No, winning streaks were not tracked before the introduction of titles. The only things the game tracked were cartography, mission completion, and rank.

/non signed

Cause what about people who donated for only the title. If so atthe time amber was giving faction people might have wouldnt donated them. So people who didnt cared about title now care it cause of the skills. If people made amber got those points in titlke track the real unfairness would be on people who donated.

If you want the faction back you should have to buy in reverse with amber purchased. I think that would be fair as you would just be putting things back as they were.

thats one of the ideas i was toying around with but then realized that anyone could buy amber off the trader for a mere 100g or so and trade it in for 1000 faction points... which would basically turn the title into yet another gold sink which just promotes botting and buying gold... not to mention it would make the price of amber skyrocket for those wanting the armor...

And I'm happy to do that, if you can find some way to calculate how much amber I did actually receive. I know I also lost faction because I earned over the 10k limit, this is because I decided that to avoid hitting 10k for each new characters befriending quest I decided to just leave it at 10k and when I got the reward the faction there was lost without any benefit to me. I just turned in quests as I completed them, which includes the two primary quests you get after the befriending quest on the kurzick side.

But if I had known about these skills, I would of spent towards the title instead of just wasting it on nothing.

Then there would be the faction lost because you can't easily hit exactly 10k, which is what the befriending quest requires.

So while I'm happy to pay back the amber I did get, I am however not willing to "return" amber I never received in the first place.

Then consider that the faction rewards would be the main source of amber/jade. But much of it was spent on armor. So even if you could calculate how much to return, it would probably still be asking for more amber/jade than actually exists in the GW economy.

If you want to charge players gold, how much do you charge per piece of amber ?
What about those players that don't have the gold ?

We are pissed off because we paid an equal amount of cash for factions, but we are being kept away from content that we would have access to if we had been warned about it coming previously, despite putting in equal work to the people that did suddenly have access to the content. But when you went for the title you knew you wouldn't be receiving any amber/jade and you still chose the title.

An easier option may be to just give the people who donated faction to an alliance jade/amber for the amount they donated. If you can calculate that amount after taking both title points for amber/jade and double points for skills/donations into account. Then watch the price of jade and amber drop even further.
Then again I did donate some faction to my alliance shortly after the factions release, before the serious faction farmers organized, when we actually had a hope of holding a town. So I'll be getting some amber if ANET does it this way.

At this point I see only one possible solution: Set both faction titles to the higher of the faction earned and the points the title currently has.

If ANET feels the title farmers deserve jade/amber then give everyone one piece for every 1000 faction they have in the title before doing the above change.

Though GW has experienced one rollback, confirming that ANET is making the smart choice of taking full snapshots of GW on a regular basis. So it may be viable (depending on how the backups are stored) to go to the last backup before the faction skills came out and use that for the amber/jade given to the title holders.
But because ANET would need information about items that could of been created and then destroyed between backups, and that even if they didn't they would need to look at all backups since the factions release, its not viable to use them to calculate how much amber/jade each player received from rewards

/signed

It should be calculated based on your total faction earned, or the levels should be MUCH lower. It took me like 8 hours of grinding doing FFF to just get to the first tier. I have already beaten Factions with 8 of my 10 Chars, and I dont plan on beating it with my Para and Derv. :S

/signed
I have never collected much faction even though I have completed Factions with 6 characters. Sunspear was part of the game, faction was just a means to the end of completing Factions. I never even knew you would get faction by taking blessings, also did not blessings cost to take?

I think it's too late, and I don't think ANet is addressing this issue any further, but just to toss out the idea....I think an approach that would've been both easy and fair would've been to give everyone a one-time credit for Faction Earned (or a percentage of that amount, e.g., 50%) toward the title track on top of Faction Donated and then rescale the title tracks accordingly.

Those who already donated faction earlier would have a boost in points and would still maintain their net advantage in the respective title track, and those who traded their faction for amber/jade would have some significant progress on the respective title track to have better access and use of those new skills.

With such an approach, the new skills would be more widely available, and those who earlier made the choice to donate their faction would still be further in the title track than those who received amber/jade so that they would still have the benefit for making their earlier choices.