they call this balance?gg anet...
KANE OG
Quote:
Originally Posted by Water Angel
in pve ele's was already looked for due to high dmg.
now...lets do the math :
16 +2 (elemental power glyph) + 2 (elemental lord skill) +1 egg +1 bless +1 item + 25% dmg from sunspear skill...
levle 23 meteor shower or sf or sh boosted with 25% dmg...you see my point?...
even without the shrine and item kicking in u still have level 21 spells+25% dmg...(instance : meteor shower doing 160+ dmg now with that buffs, or savanna heat doing 450 dmg over 5 sec...no mentionning sand storm or other big dmg spells)
they said balance? cough cough... ..... O.o ....and you complain about ME bitching in the forums. GG yourself.
KANE
now...lets do the math :
16 +2 (elemental power glyph) + 2 (elemental lord skill) +1 egg +1 bless +1 item + 25% dmg from sunspear skill...
levle 23 meteor shower or sf or sh boosted with 25% dmg...you see my point?...
even without the shrine and item kicking in u still have level 21 spells+25% dmg...(instance : meteor shower doing 160+ dmg now with that buffs, or savanna heat doing 450 dmg over 5 sec...no mentionning sand storm or other big dmg spells)
they said balance? cough cough... ..... O.o ....and you complain about ME bitching in the forums. GG yourself.
KANE
Xyzzy
I am all about the unbalance in PvE, that way all but 30% of all classes will make it into groups. That way PvE will turn into even more worthless, GJ Anet you will help the sales for other companies.
XvArchonvX
LoL @ OP
Regular monsters in PvE come in droves big enough to fill the screen. Bosses get innate abilities like permanent health regen, shortened hex/condition duration, and often their own line of skills. Enemies also get the ability to pop up out of nowhere to attack you and come as high as level 30.
Since when did PvE revolve around skill balance?
Regular monsters in PvE come in droves big enough to fill the screen. Bosses get innate abilities like permanent health regen, shortened hex/condition duration, and often their own line of skills. Enemies also get the ability to pop up out of nowhere to attack you and come as high as level 30.
Since when did PvE revolve around skill balance?
Water Angel
kane : i have better circonstances lol. your moanin was about something old as the game itself an said hundred times.
me it's the first time and on something fresh new lol.
archon : well true its was more about pvp for balancing originally.
but in pve you have some things totally fuked up as well... not a reason make some aspects of pve totally unequal cus they did good on pvp...erm at last tried so.
i dun blame anet for new skills and general update.soem are nice mostly.but what they did with the 2 ele skills its like give people even more reason no play other classes but ele, cause their power output.
me it's the first time and on something fresh new lol.
archon : well true its was more about pvp for balancing originally.
but in pve you have some things totally fuked up as well... not a reason make some aspects of pve totally unequal cus they did good on pvp...erm at last tried so.
i dun blame anet for new skills and general update.soem are nice mostly.but what they did with the 2 ele skills its like give people even more reason no play other classes but ele, cause their power output.
Yanman.be
Waterangel MUST be a troll.
MicroBlood
...Aren't elementalists supposed to have powerful spells? And if you (Or hero/henchmen) Can't interrupt meteor shower, which is a 3 second cast, or so... Then thats kinda sad. (Btw, most of the powerful/high damage spells take a while to cast, so I'm not saying meteor shower specifically, just as an example)
Interrupt the meteor shower and theres nothing to complain about.
Personally, I don't like to PvE, because its the same thing over and over, but to be honest, I've never seen anything in Nightfall have meteor shower. I only remember the hydras having it ( I'm probably wrong, I know, but thats just what I think)
And if interrupts don't help, then just avoid those groups with the elementalists.
And if THAT doesn't help, bring a Protective Spirit on your monks so you don't get spiked down with 1 skill.
And if that doesn't help... Get the ele down first? You don't always have to go after the monk, they can't heal any better than a monk with flare spamming it whenever he has time.
And if PvE is too hard for you... Umm lol.
Interrupt the meteor shower and theres nothing to complain about.
Personally, I don't like to PvE, because its the same thing over and over, but to be honest, I've never seen anything in Nightfall have meteor shower. I only remember the hydras having it ( I'm probably wrong, I know, but thats just what I think)
And if interrupts don't help, then just avoid those groups with the elementalists.
And if THAT doesn't help, bring a Protective Spirit on your monks so you don't get spiked down with 1 skill.
And if that doesn't help... Get the ele down first? You don't always have to go after the monk, they can't heal any better than a monk with flare spamming it whenever he has time.
And if PvE is too hard for you... Umm lol.
mqstout
The game just dictates to you even more the skills you can bring along. Oh yeah, and tough luck getting into a group if you don't have them and can show your charged-up titles to show you do nothing other than grind the game.
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If you feel they are too overpowered and it would be too easy, simply don't use them.
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It's ok on a Curses guy, but a good bit more questionable since those characters have such backloaded emanagement and pay so much up front to get out the Spiteful / Reckless / EB. I guess if you don't mind going into your high set early and often, but you're basically relying on Soul Reaping to cast your hexes and that's a really questionable plan.|
When people talk of PvE Balance, they're talking about making all the classes equally useful.
And all skills within those classes being balanced against each other and equally useful, too.
Foreshadow
why are people moaning about this 1 skill, i mean comon, if you have a valid argument against this ok, but, one skill, especially one as uninfluential as will not make just ele monk war teams, many people have stated some pve foes simply cannot be taken down by this alone.
also, mm arent always used for their damage potential, but for their ability to create meat shields and distractions paired with the unconditional damage of death nova, which this cough 'oober leet' glmph will not provide, as others have pointed. also, packing 2 glymphs would severly limit you elebility, thats two less crucial spells just to charge up sf or ms, which in pve is pointless due to aoe dodging most of the time. Anet is helping you,especially in the rot areas, be greatful, this skill is a gift, and a skill that isnt even that amazing in my opinion, heck, why use that when i can pack a damage skill or an extra ward or even a res. If you think that this skill will dramatically affect pve then you are wrong in my opinion. enjoy and debate!!
Zeph
@ OP: Learn to type. Learn to spell. Learn to stop trolling. GG.
KANE OG
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeph
@ OP: Learn to type. Learn to spell. Learn to stop trolling. GG.
C'mon, cut him a little slack. He's from Paris and english isn't his native language. He seems to be a good guy with valid arguements, and we go a round or two once in a while. It's all good.
KANE Good God! I just paid SpongeBob a compliment! 
Dinkytowner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregslot
The only problem i see at these skills is the mesmer sunspear skill. You cant use it at heroes, and you cant expect for any player to interrupt skills in hard mode, so it is way too hard to use... compared to the other it is useless
Interrputing is specially hard in pve, considering the number of enemies =) Are you serious? This skill is all kinds of fun. Finally they put in an interupt with some fun side effects. If you can't interupt in HM quit bringing interupt skills. It's not that hard, you just have to know your limits and not try to interupt a ROF.
LifeInfusion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miral
im not really sure why they nerfed the one they did how they did... its basically weaker than bitter chill now...
Necrosis is armor ignoring
Leonidas2
Three pages of arguments about 2 skills within 24 hours of their release. Wow...I'm missing out. My 2 cents then...
Personally, I do think these skills are a little overbearing, and would demand more areas such as the Realm of Torment to maintain a sense of a PvE challenge. But look around, the ele wasn't the only one to receive an uber buff. "There's Nothing to Fear!" Constant 15-31% damage reduction for the entire team. Basically, a half powered incoming or a "They're on Fire!" without the burning requirment. "Save Yourselves!" 100 armor party wide buff? Oh dear. 8 adrenline is easy to come by in PvE as most things don't dodge or evade a warriors onslaught, or kite for that matter. 2 warriors with this could keep it up near constant. Necrosis. A weaker discord, but with similiar requirments. Both 5E and 2 recharge. Combine then, and you spam an armor ignoring flare until you run out of energy. Eternal Aura. Recharges avatar forms? Constant avatars in PvE, not extremely special but still rather nice. Always balthazar or always dwayna, definetly adds a nice use for dervishs in teams now. Summon Spirits. Thumbs up to this one however, suddenly ritualists can keep up with a party in PvE to some extent. It also heals, making the self destructive spirits such as Earthbind and Wanderlust a bit more juicy. Aura of Holy Might. Nearly a non elite Vow of Strength but you can still use attack skills. And with the AoE striking of a dervish, this would level mobs. Combined with Eternal Aura and Avatar of Lyssa...watch out. Yes, elementalists did get crazy buffs to their damage. But, as Anet defines them, elementalists are primary damage inflictors. Every class got something they were built to do. Dervishs up'ed their damage with enchants, paragons got defense shout and adrenline spear, ritualists got to move their spirits and make a new one, warriors got an AoE attack skill and party defense, mesmers got more degen and interuption...And so on and so forth. Anet did nothing but improve a classes primary roles, and bravo to them for that. Whether or not these skills are insane buffs or not will be discovered in the coming week.
Guardian of the Light
I can see the OP post's point but look what happens to your skill bar:
Fire Attunement, Ele Attunement, Ele lord, intensity, Glyph of Ele Power, Res Sig... O dear I have only 2 skills left for attack skills.  Ok maybe 3 skills if you take ele attunement out but also energy problems could screw you over in the long run.
Marverick
I don't see how you guys can complain about this being overpowered. Take a look at what Paragons can do and tell me ANYTHING else is overpowered.
Focused Anger + Aggressive Refrain allows you to keep "Save Yourselves!" up CONSTANTLY. That's +100 unremovable armor for the rest of the party ALWAYS. Add that to -33% damage reduction from the Paragon sunspear skill, and tell me anything else is overpowered. I see some fun with Level 20 Sliver Armor for boss farming, but that's hardly overpowered itself. Warriors "can" do damage, of course. My AP Monk Smiter can do around 550 damage in 6 seconds, yet I don't see Smiters wanted anywhere because they're not as efficient as other damage dealers such as an AP sin. Sure you can grab a few Axe skills and go do some decent damage, but a Dervish or Assassin makes Warriors look like a joke.
Marverick
I don't see how you guys can complain about this being overpowered. Take a look at what Paragons can do and tell me ANYTHING else is overpowered.
Focused Anger + Aggressive Refrain allows you to keep "Save Yourselves!" up CONSTANTLY. That's +100 unremovable armor for the rest of the party ALWAYS. Add that to -33% damage reduction from the Paragon sunspear skill, and tell me anything else is overpowered. I see some fun with Level 20 Sliver Armor for boss farming, but that's hardly overpowered itself. Warriors "can" do damage, of course. My AP Monk Smiter can do around 550 damage in 6 seconds, yet I don't see Smiters wanted anywhere because they're not as efficient as other damage dealers such as an AP sin. Sure you can grab a few Axe skills and go do some decent damage, but a Dervish or Assassin makes Warriors look like a joke.
Water Angel
micro blood : wh ythe hell you talk me about interupt? we talk about pve not pvp matchs where screw eles is a cake.
zeph : ya, i spell bad, type bad,and my english isnt great,you sure do so much better,so go put it on ur CV sure impress someone.... guardian : true.can only agree.but it was just about people weak mind and compare the overbuff of it. and yes i agree some other skills are over buffed too...if took ele its cus its the more obvious instance and used after monk. and yay red face made me a compliment :P  kane^^
ca_aok
Focused Anger+Spear of Fury+Save Yourselves+There's Nothing to Fear
Add in aggressive refrain, some energy management, and any other skills and it's gg all PvE... lol. MicroBlood
Quote:
Originally Posted by Water Angel
micro blood : wh ythe hell you talk me about interupt? we talk about pve not pvp matchs where screw eles is a cake.
zeph : ya, i spell bad, type bad,and my english isnt great,you sure do so much better,so go put it on ur CV sure impress someone.... guardian : true.can only agree.but it was just about people weak mind and compare the overbuff of it. and yes i agree some other skills are over buffed too...if took ele its cus its the more obvious instance and used after monk. and yay red face made me a compliment :P kane^^
Screw? Ele? Cake? ... I don't have any idea how those three words go together.Anyway, don't tell me you have a 3 second reflex and you're not able to interrupt or knockdown before meteor shower activates...
Sir Mad
Quote:
Originally Posted by XvArchonvX
LoL @ OP
Regular monsters in PvE come in droves big enough to fill the screen. Bosses get innate abilities like permanent health regen, shortened hex/condition duration, and often their own line of skills. Enemies also get the ability to pop up out of nowhere to attack you and come as high as level 30. Since when did PvE revolve around skill balance? As several people posted before it's not about balancing PvErs with monsters but about 1/ balancing the team with their environment (which isnt what we're talking about here) and 2/ balancing classes as in "making them as usefull in PvE in their own way". A few classes are not welcome at all in a PvE PuG, such as sins or mesmer. You can argur all day long, and yes I know there are good pvE mesmers or sins and they can be usefull, yet most of the time other classes will do better. So yes I think I can say those classes ain't balanced in PvE. And ANEt does as well, hence the topic about mesmers and how to buff them in pvE posted a few months ago. And yes I think balancing pvE skills is needed, if you don't wanna make it worse than it is and limitate PvE to teams of 2 monks, one necro, one warrior or dervish, and 4 eles. I love my ele, but not to the point I would want to make it so powerfull I can put my ranger or my rit to the trash.
Batou of Nine
LoL, this whole thread makes me laugh. Out of four pages of posts, has NO ONE actually tested attribute stacking?
NEWS FLASH! ATTRIBUTES ARE CAPPED AT LVL 20!!! Disclamer: i quickly scimmed all pages, so i may have missed someone already saying this. I think it even says it somewhere on Gwiki. So at lvl 20, SF is 147 dmg, not anything too overpowered over SF @ lvl 16. Overpowered, not hardly. Helping people a bit in HM? Perhaps. Adds a little more fun, undoubtedly. Funny how many things people find to complain about, I suggest people like the OP read the latest post by Andrew Patrick... http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10168366 Nuff said really. Cheers.
Dr Strangelove
Quite frankly, it's not that huge a deal. All those nifty damage increasing spells do take a skill slot which could be used for other things. This is on a skillbar already crowded by at least two energy management spell and a rez. Considering how hamstrung elementalists are by recharge times, I don't really see these spells as that big an imbalance. Heck, it's not like you're spiking things in PvE anyway.
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faer
l2pGWz before you insult people. Oh, in that case please do post a working warrior build for Hard Mode Deep that does any real damage and doesn't kill you and your team. Then go on and do the same for, oh say, Hard Mode Stygian Veil. I'm sure warriors everywhere would rejoice and compliment you immensely on your wisdom. One awesome thing about one of the skills given to the warrior is that it more usable by any class but the warrior. +100 armor... to everyone except the one who needs it.
Kakumei
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
How much damage does the W/A build for Hard Mode Deep do? For that matter, how much damage do the W/E builds for Domain of Anguish do? Please cite the builds and name specifics, I won't do it for you. Can you tell me, what is the real function of a tank in a high level pve mission? Oh, and stop insulting people when you clearly have no clue what you're talking about. Hi hello I didn't notice this topic moved let me get to responding to you I never said "hey go use a shockaxe in PvE". You made the sweeping statement that all Warriors could do at all is tank, and that is so bluntly untrue it makes my eyes hurt.
Div
omg, the day that PvE'rs are complaining about how anet is bad at game balance in PvE because skills are too strong...wtf?
Master Ketsu
Im sorry, I just cant take anyone with spongbob avi seriously....
..... but really, balance in PvE is way uber mongo b0rked as is. PvE is supposed to be random and fun, not balanced...I dont really enjoy it but really only pvp needs true balance. ArKaiN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Batou of Nine
NEWS FLASH! ATTRIBUTES ARE CAPPED AT LVL 20!!! Disclamer: i quickly scimmed all pages, so i may have missed someone already saying this. I think it even says it somewhere on Gwiki. So at lvl 20, SF is 147 dmg, not anything too overpowered over SF @ lvl 16. Overpowered, not hardly. Helping people a bit in HM? Perhaps. Adds a little more fun, undoubtedly. Funny how many things people find to complain about, I suggest people like the OP read the latest post by Andrew Patrick... http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10168366 Nuff said really. Cheers. WE all know attributes are capped at 20. So what. Intensity doesn't add attributes, it adds +25% DAMAGE. Do the math. I think you'll find that you can actually cast the equivalent of a fire att 22 SF pretty easily.
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakumei
Hi hello I didn't notice this topic moved let me get to responding to you
I never said "hey go use a shockaxe in PvE". You made the sweeping statement that all Warriors could do at all is tank, and that is so bluntly untrue it makes my eyes hurt. And you made the sweeping statement that my friend must suck because he didn't do damage, although I did point out that we were doing The Deep together. Hardly any warrior builds for true high level PvE do any real damage. When you made the statement that "warriors are basic damage dealers" that hurt my eyes too, because that is not the function of a warrior at all in a high level area. A warrior does not hold a candle compared to an elementalist or even a necromancer when it comes to PvE damage output.
Ensign
"There's Nothing to Fear!" is an Elementalist skill, as you have both the mana and a deep supporting cast to use it with.
It is pure unadulterated retardation. Intensity is decent but not must-run by any means. It's worth about 1.5 DDs if you cast constantly while it's up. Elemental Lord is the cover enchant of choice now, at least it would be if you could get a decent rank in the thing without stabbing your eyes out in PvE. It'd be close to a must-run, if it weren't such a horrendous grind (r10 Sunspear ~ r1 Faction). Peace, -CxE The Great Al
The past few months, for the first time in GW's history, Elems finally are the best damage dealers in the game, which is what they should be. The first year/year and a half of Guild Wars, it more or less seemed that Elem spells were so expensive not because they were powerful, but just because of the fact that Elems happen to have twice as much energy as other classes. But not anymore - finally the damage output is proportionate to the energy costs. I admittedly play Elem basically all of the time, but I feel like unwanted classes should be buffed before the more popular classes are nerfed.
Ensign
Eles have been the best AoE damage characters since Nightfall came out 8 months ago. Running a little late to the party are we?
The Great Al
eh, I shouldn't have said 'the past few months'....it actually doesn't seem like almost a year since NF came out. The bolded part of my post was the main point, by year/year and a half I basically meant prophecies + factions.
Thom Bangalter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
"There's Nothing to Fear!" is an Elementalist skill, as you have both the mana and a deep supporting cast to use it with.
It is pure unadulterated retardation. Intensity is decent but not must-run by any means. It's worth about 1.5 DDs if you cast constantly while it's up. Elemental Lord is the cover enchant of choice now, at least it would be if you could get a decent rank in the thing without stabbing your eyes out in PvE. It'd be close to a must-run, if it weren't such a horrendous grind (r10 Sunspear ~ r1 Faction). Peace, -CxE really? I figured "there's nothing to fear" was a necro skill, But I haven't checked out the soul reaping change. Intensity also looks like an SS skill to me, but I'm going to hate to grind out elemental lord, particularly since I have the luxon title (2) and everyone else I play with is kurzick.
XvArchonvX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
really? I figured "there's nothing to fear" was a necro skill, But I haven't checked out the soul reaping change. Intensity also looks like an SS skill to me, but I'm going to hate to grind out elemental lord, particularly since I have the luxon title (2) and everyone else I play with is kurzick.
Call me crazy, but I think "There's Nothing to Fear" is a Para skill. I found great success using it in a build in conjunction with Critical Agility and "Go For The Eyes". The IAS allows GftE to be spammed more often which serves to both keep Crit Agility up and give energy regen through Leadership for TNtF (which also gives an energy return to reduce net cost since it's a shout). I used the skill in Grand Court of Sebelkeh and was able to spam it at recharge without ever encountering energy problems.
An Ele might have the energy storage to afford the skill, but they don't have the energy regen to keep using it unless they devote their elite to something like Ether Prodigy. A Necro may be a good use for it as well, but I don't have enough experience with the new SR to say for sure how true this is.
Moloch Vein
Intensity does nothing to SS.
The introduction of these skills unbalance the game even more in the Ele's favor. Elemental Lord will be a staplestone in elementalist builds. Intensity, probably too, one must at least admit that these two skills are both mainly useful by elementalists. Signet of Corruption is weak. Necrosis is usable by any class and not too damn good anyway. There's nothing to fear is usable mainly by elementalists or BiP necros. The dervish skill Eternal Aura is horribly unbalanced. The warrior skill Save yourselves is laughable... 100 armor to everyone except the one who needs it, for a 8a cost. The mesmer skills change nothing. The monk skills must be nerfed, makes game silly easy. At least they are MONK skills. Don't have the time to go through this more but... it is painfully obvious that the only people to really benefit from these new skills are E, D, Mo and A. The addition of the sunspear skills combined with the armor nerf makes warriors less attractive than ever. Necromancers should have gotten a skill to boost death magic to finally make minions viable again in most high level areas where the monsters simply make a snack out of your bone horror. I know the meat wall argument but those are rare situations in gimmick builds (I refuse to consider the Barrage/pet Tombs build anything but gimmick). Warriors should've gotten something to cement their status as tanks, instead I do believe D will take over in DoA now.
prism2525
In all due honesty, I'm getting FED UP with all this whining...
back in the day eles were WAY underpowered. Anet fixed that with NF. Now PvE (and mind they are PvE ONLY!) skills are too powerful? Gimme a break. I like the ele skills and can't wait to rack enough faction to get the kurzick/luxon ones. PS: I'm an ele primary.
Moloch Vein
This isn't whining, it's constructive criticism.
Whining generally pertains to complaining about something that is bad. Several of these skills are too good, so good that they are in fact game breaking.
Ensign
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
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For a Minion Master the skill is pretty awesome though - yes, it does affect your Minions. Plus your energy gets smoothed out by minion deaths. Energy is still kinda tight if you're going all-in on Fiends, but you make it work for this effect.
On a Mind Blast bar, the skill is Pure Gold.
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Quote: Originally Posted by XvArchonvX I found great success using it in a build in conjunction with Critical Agility and "Go For The Eyes". I think that's the real benefit of running a Paragon primary - that you get to use both Critical Agility and TNTF when playing with heroes and henchmen. As you add players it gets more questionable though, because you only benefit from one copy of TNTF in the party - and if someone else can run it without cost (and most midline casters can) then the Paragon is just worse than a Warrior or Dervish.
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Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Necromancers should have gotten a skill to boost death magic to finally make minions viable again in most high level areas
If you missed it the first time, TNTF works on Minions. Quote:
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