Loot Scale: A Valid Arguement

The problem that I see with the whole lootscaling idea is the reason it was implemented. It was implemented to reduce the amount of gold coming into the game, and reduce the effectiveness of bots. The way I see it howver is that it has done both of those remarkably well at the expense of those who farm for the thrill and cash.

Lootscaling has done a teriffic job lowering prices on nearly everything, but now sellers are poor, and buyers can buy what they want. However, this is the sort of thing that leads to an economic crash. If people cannot earn a decent profit off farming greens (for example) then they will stop farming them, and the green market will shrivel and die.

The other problem is that this was done to reduce the effectiveness of bots. Ah yes, those bots that are ruining out game so severely. I agree that something needed to be done, but not this! This has merely put a 2 second cripple on bots while giving legit HM farmers a total Mindfreeze . So many other suggestions were put forward as to how bots could be dealt with, and correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody said "give us less money" so they are less effective. That is probably the last thing anyone wanted. The solution to make them less effective is to make us poor? I know that when I play a game I am willing to invest the time and effort to make myself rich, and I don't see why the war against bots should ruin my fun. kinda like nuking the playground to see if Osama wont go there any more eh?

The problem is people are too damn stubborn to change with the games economy. The less gold in the game means that items will start costing less gold but due to the amount of gold being introduced to the economy it will keep the same value just less will equal more. I just hope that this wont lead to more of the lazy people turning to ebay and gold sellers.

There are three types of people playing this.
1) People who will buy gold online.
2) People who won't buy gold online.
3) And people who might buy gold online.

The people in group (1) will buy gold no matter the cost or the risk to their account. These people are usually refered to as noobs and have more money than brains. Loot scaling did nothing to these people except that it costs them a bit more real life money to get their fake gold.

The people in group (2) won't buy the gold no matter what becuase they either don't care about expensive stuff (perfect weapons, 15k armor, money titles, keys) or they want to earn it. Loot scaling hurt these people the most because they are willing to do the work to get money but now it requires eight times the work.

The last group of people, group (3), probably wouldn't have bought their gold online when it was easily farmable but now when it is hard to farm they are to lazy to do the farming themselves for nice stuff and will now turn to the gold sellers. They care about their account more than group (1) but not enough that the risk of losing their account would be a big deal to them like it would be to group (2).

If ANET wants to minimize the number of buyers, group (1), (sellers won't exist if there isnt people buying) they need to make gold easy to come by, imo. Most of the gamers are group (2), and group (3) is still a small group of people but more than group (1).

Casual farmers ARE hit hard. Try to farm trolls or vermins now. You get like 300 gold if you're very lucky. Casual farmers are the ones why farm big amount of monsters for their crap drops, in order to get some raw cash to spend on skills. They never make alot of cash, cause even after a 100 runs, you only got about 100K.

Hardcore farmers who farm for ecto's/golds/greens, however, got their targets exempt from the loot-scaling... And to clear things out, they lower prices instead of increasing it. You know what happens if millions of the same weapon come in the market in all reqs, damage mods and colours?

Look at the Colossal Scimitar, who went from 1000K to a mere 30K. This happened BECAUSE of farming. If A-net didn't allow this weapon to be farmed, there would only be a few of them in the game, and the prices would still be sky-high.

Ecto's? Because of the loot scaling, the prices skyrocketed to 14K (about 6K more than usually) in a matter of hours. When they were exempt, however, people farmed them more than ever (most other farm spots have been nerfed, after all), and the price is now lowered to 5K.

we have to THANK the hardcore farmers for the low prices, not the lootscaling.

The reason why runes are getting cheaper? Runes with inscriptions now drop in Kryta and Cantha, so way more people farm there now. Also, with the coming of Nightfall, it was 100% sure that you would salvage a rune off an item, and not crafting materials (Unless you choose for that), so that made the price go down, too.

Dyes? Double dye drop weekend, and exempt from loot scaling helps them stay low, too.

Combine this with a horrid trade system, and you get more and more of these things in the market. More going in than out. And that is what is lowering the prices. If these items weren't exempt or farmed, the prices would sky-rocket.


All the 'targets' like golds, greens, dyes, etc are exempt from loot scaling, and therefore are more common. The 'target' of the casual farmer/casual gamer has been nerfed, however. And that, gentlemen, is what the lootscaling is.

So here is a big 'thank you' to all the farmers bringing down the prices on traders. Too bad I can't buy it cause I'm a casual gamer, and my ways of making cash have been killed.

Are lockpicks exempt from loot scaling? Otherwise i've been making it fine by selling greens and tomes.

I've been playing since last August and until very recently I was completely unaffected by the various nerfs(the SR nerfs hit me hard) because I'm primarily a PvE player. Of all the recent changes the loot scale completely devastated me. I like to run around and explore and do quests and despite A-Nets assurances that I can do that and make money I can barely stay afloat. I've been pushing on in all the campaigns so I can cap all the skills I really want/need but that costs money. I have 9 characters and only 3 of them are at 20. Once my other toons get to 20 they'll need max armor and at least 1 sup rune. Due to the decreased material drops(Cantha seems to be exempt for this...I always get tons of Silk and Cloth from there) I'm forced to buy from the traders and paying 100g-250g per item, in the case of rare materials, makes getting max armor tedious and more expensive than before the loot scale. I don't care about being rich in-game. I just want to be able to get the skills I want and be well equipped(meaning the right equipment and max armor) without beggering myself.

I believe a lot of people are overreacting about loot-scaling.
None of my friends have any complaints about it and the forums keep getting spammed about it. I can't believe someone is THAT poor all the time that he can't buy his skills or 1.5K armor.

I spoke with one of my guildies yesterday.
He's been hit hard, but he just don't mention it in guild chat and he's not a forum member, so you won't hear him here.

On the armor:
I vanquished 2 areas today on Elona starter island (the south-west east islands) and I doubt that would have gotten me the 7.5K that I would need for max armor. That's playing Hard Mode, killing 200+ enemies in each area.
This has nothing to do with lootscaling, I was playing with a full H&H team.
It does say something on income gained by playing the game.
I'm used to this gold/hour rate, so no problem here.

However, when casual farming players are set back to this kind of income, they will cry out loud. They were used to make 1K in a couple of minutes.
Many of them probably have scaled their spending to this income rate, so they need to cut that back a lot. If they don't, cash is going down fast, leaving them with no gold for skills and armor. And then getting gold for armor or skills takes a long time.

It's not like that. It's that, that stuff is way more expensive now then it was ever. It used to be that a set of 1.5k armor was nothing to me and I would even give some of my close friends the funds for a set if they asked. But now, it's just hard to make the gold to get it. I have tons of characters so it is tough to supply for all of them, even though I have a set of 15k armor on one char, and 1.5k on 5 others. I used to be rich, so it's not like everyone who is complaining is poor.

The argument here is simple.

The less gold that one can get means less gold one can spend..

the argument about 1.5k armour? that times 5 pieces...7.5k...plus the requires materials...that if loot drops is scaled that people dont get as much of. so in turn getting max armour becomes difficult.

15k armour pretty much is out of my reach anytime soon.

Then if i want to participate in various things in game Im asked to have certain skills by the groups I try to join.....there is another 1k each skill.

the loot scaling hurts more than the economy. it hurts only the people that play the game with out using bots or exploiting. it only hurts honest people.

[QUOTE]wrong again as you are confused over the difference between inscriptions/mods/runes.

here is when the runes started getting much cheaper way before Nightfall or even Factions


http://www.guildwars.com/support/gam...ve-2005-06.php
and this is simply fascinating

would you mind telling me what those woes you mention are?

i am actually interested seriously what woes you think i have

Loot scaling is just another instance of anet killing the casual player/farmer and doing absolutely jack shit to the bots. They're too stupid to admit they were wrong and remove it, so the economy is going to stay RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up and casual players will not be able to make any money. GG anet.

How does loot scaling hurt the casual player exactly? A.Net has
1. Increased the value of gold by reducing the income of farmers
2. A.Net did this in a way that does not touch a casual players income (a group of 8 still gets the same drops as before loot scaling)
3. A.Net increased the supply of Rare items on the market by exempting them from loot scaling.

To me it looks like the ability of the casual player to buy something in Guildwars has gone up, not down.

If you are a farmer then yes, your buying power went down. The fact that A.Net would reduce your buying power to help out the casual player really doesn't surprise me. The casual player is the intended audience of Guildwars last I heard.

Finally, I don't believe that A.Net really expected loot scaling to do much to stop bots. I think if A.Net wanted to stop bots they would have done something along the lines of replacing the easily farmed mobs in certain zones with tougher ones. There is a precedent for that in Kepkhet and her brood moving into Prophet's Path to replace the easily farmed griffins there.

i am not spending 1 single gold coin other then farmin it fow entrence is like 1k so i play like getting 1.5k every 15 miniute(2.5k ever 15 minute 1k is fee) a-nets goal IS COMPLEATELY DIFFERENT THEN STOPIN BOTS. If it was they would have ban them(easy they would pm them and talk something bots cant answer)

I believe Gaile said that it was to stop bots(correct me if I'm wrong).

Cost of skills before 1k, Cost of skills after 1k. Cost of armour before 1k, Cost of armour after 1k. Cost of keys before 600g, cost of keys after 600g. Cost of common materials before 14-20g each, cost of common materials after 14-20g each. Cost of weapons/offhands before 5k, cost of weapons/offhands after 5k. Cost of id kits before 100g, cost of id kits after 100g. Cost of salvage kits before 400g, cost of salvage kits after 400g. Need I go on?

Looks like the value of gold is exactly like it was before the nerf.

Blatantly false. Most casual players needed to farm to afford basic gold sinks like skills and keys before the loot nerf. Most 8 person "adventuring sessions" end up losing 1-3k when you factor in the cost keys and buying new skills for the session. Every casual player I know (myself included) did the "low end farms" like vermin and spiders at least once a week, just to keep their bank balances above 0 - these runs have been the hardest hit by the nerf due to the very low rate of unscaled drops you get from them.

Rare items are wants, not needs. Their loot scaling cost doesn't affect your ability to play the game.

The price of every essential item stayed the same, but the ability of the casual player to make the required money to get them has plumetted. The cost of a shiny gold sword is totally irrelevent when a casual player cannot even afford to buy the skills they want!

The point is that they haven't helped the casual player buy anything that they actually need to buy!!!! They're even further out of reach now than ever before!

Spend an hour in Granite Citadel and then tell me that the power of farmers has decreased. Oh it has...but not by much. Farmers still make 8 times more than casual players after all.

How can people possibly believe that casual player's financial situations are any easier than before loot scaling? The prices of max armor didn't change much when all the Tyrian and Canthan armor was made inscribable. In most cases the price was only knocked down 500g. Which is 2500g in savings, in most cases, that the casual player can use to buy their sup runes, right? Well now that Tyrian and Cathan armor lost all their inherent characteristics you have to buy the corresponding insignia to get the old mods. This can be extremely expensive when you need something like a Bloodstained or Radiant insignia. After that there are your sup runes. Most are ridiculously inexpensive but some are beyond what the casual player can afford(i.e. Rune of Sup. Vigor). Once your armor is all done, what about weapons? I generally get max collector weapons because they're good and they don't cost any money. But you can't mod them and you may need something different. Having bad equipment makes playing difficult and decidingly unfun. Basic good weapons run about 3.5-5k. I'm talking about equipment that will do the job, not stuff with flashy skins or maxed out mods. After you get your weapons in order you need to get the right skills. 1k per skill isn't that bad but its terribly inconvinient at times. All this happens before you even zone out.

I think some people are misunderstanding what casual farming was before the nerf. Sure, some people did casually farm with a full team of 8. But the majority farmed solo or with a small party. Yes, you can be a casual farmer and farm solo. I farmed Vermin with just heroes and made out just fine after only 2-4 runs. Not rich but able to afford what I need and put a little in savings. Now a Vermin run would COST me money rather than turn a profit. Forget about my Insect run in Arjok Ward.

I don't know why...but I blame Hard Mode for everything. Including the Xunlai labor crisis. :P

Personally, i think i love loot scaling and HM now, Because it brought prices down to be affordable. I was tired of paying 11 Freaking K just for a black dye, Now its 6k-ish. Thank god for that. Ecto is now 5k, makes it so much more affordable to get fow armor now, by all means i wish the economy of this game would crash even more because thats whats really making it fun, I can still make 1k + gold items to sell in 10 minutes? Say i get 1k off just loot in 10 minutes, then any additional gold items to sell unid for 1k, money has come in fast fast fast for me this way, Had no problem with making money.

[QUOTE=Loviatar] By simple going back through all your posts is more than enough to show it.

Sorry but your another wrong person who thinks loot scalling helped. It was the exemptions to loot scaling that brought the prices down. Dont believe me just remember the first 12 hours of loot scaling before Anerf added the exemptions.

Seems we need a better definition of the casual player.
Because when I consider the casual player to be someone that PuGs/Guilds and H&Hs through the game with full team and you consider the casual player to be something else, we are never going to agree on this.

I've tried finding out in the guild what people consider a casual player, but it's hard to define.

Skills are a one time investment on each character and there are not that many different 'wanted' builds. It can turn out expensive in the long run (about 1100K when you want all skills on one character).
I doubt you need that many skills unlocked.
I'm saving for my last set of Elites for my final title, so I know how expensive skills are.
But that's just a matter of saving each and every piece of gold you get to achieve the goal.
When you need skills for PvP, consider killing a PvE character and making a PvP character. I did this and it saves a LOT of gold.

Keys are a choice. You don't need them and I only use those that drop for me. Low-ends go to merch without even thinking, because they don't add to title. That's an other 'buyable' title, aka gold-drain.
I use Lockpicks, but those only in specific areas (because I want better looking weapons on my heroes).