Loot Scale: A Valid Arguement

reetkever

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mo/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_jos
Let's see:
Gold sink, gold sink, gold sink, possible gold sink, market, possible gold sink, market, payable with full team, market and gold sink.
Market = depending on supply and demand.
Gold sink = designed to remove cash from game economy (those did not change with loot scaling).
And perhaps this is the problem with the game. A-Net wants too much cash out of the economy, while not lowering the prices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_jos
When equipment = skills, I might agree. I think you mean items, which do not make the difference.
I mean special builds, armors (I mean this like when using a second armor set with runes), weapons, etc. Like in the Torment area, I need a way different build than the build I use in the Northern Shiverpeaks. Because of the constant skill changes, changing my own build and the monster's builds, I keep having to buy skills.

Runes DO make a difference, and a 15-22 sword on Koss is better than the dmg 2-3 Machete he begins with, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_jos
Agree on normal skill tomes. Don't care about gold items (will merch or salvage them anyway).
I respect your opinion, but alot of people DO want the golds. A-net seems to know this, and it is one of the reasons the loot-scaling was implented. The result, however, did NOT work, and vanity weapons are still being sold at 100K + ecto's. Skill Tomes only drop in Hard Mode, which is a shame.

the_jos

the_jos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Hard Mode Legion [HML]

N/

Quote:
I respect your opinion, but alot of people DO want the golds.
Let me be a little more specific.
When I find a good gold item, I keep it.
However, about 99% of those drops are just not good enough.
That's high-req with crappy mods and bad upgrades.
I don't think those are the golds that many people want.

Quote:
... but alot of people DO want the golds. A-net seems to know this, and it is one of the reasons the loot-scaling was implented. The result, however, did NOT work ....
Agree, worked out further in: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?p=2987232

Quote:
Skill Tomes only drop in Hard Mode, which is a shame.
Partly agree. When you don't have access to HM, this is 'bad'.
However, finishing the story just once removes this problem.
There are places in HM that are not that hard to farm (just follow the bots) and do have a fair chance of tomes dropping.
However, I would not mind regular tomes dropping from high-end NM bosses.

yukimura_gw

yukimura_gw

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

Quebec

Rt/Me

Gold sink... Gold sink...

It's not because I like ancient armor dyed in black
that I got expensive taste.



Isn't she cuter like that?

This sword couldn't even be sold 5k in Guru Auction :


And I tried to sell it 3 times in Guru Auction.

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

A little note.
I greatly sympathize with the complaints against loot scaling.

If you're having difficulty scraping together the 110k+ for 15k armor, it's understandable.

If you're having trouble scraping up 1k, it's not.
It's basic socialeconomics in that instance. - those with less spend more often/deplete what little they have
those with more sit on the wealth/are conservative with it.

Completing a quest/mission is almost always at least 1k in drops.

A tip to get yourself started off in terms of cash (around 40k) is to stop spending, on anything at all.
If you need ID kits/salvage kits, make a new char, get commendations/credits and trade them in.

Most people in this game with monetary difficulty have a difficult time not spending 1k-5k on frivolous/unnecessary expenditures.

And again...Guru auctions are amazing.

jhu

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2007

you know, if they wanted to help out the casual type, they'd also make the max collector armor inscribable. that way no one can complain about not having enough money to get armor.

Shmanka

Shmanka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

In Your Head

The Brave Will Fall [Nion]

Me/

[QUOTE=Loviatar]
Quote:

8 controlled characters/bots on one computer?

tell us how sherlock
.. You can run infinite copies of GW on one computer... have 8 accounts?...

Martin Alvito

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_jos
I have had some items that would have been worth between 5K and 10K and went straight to merch because I am not willing to spend time on selling.
I'd rather play the game than stand in town trying to sell an item.

I think for this entry market, things got worse.
However, since it's a 'nice to have' and not a 'must have' market, it does not affect the starting player.
Actually, the low-end greens and low req Nightfall inscription skins are precisely the items a player must possess in order to move to more advanced forms of PvE. Same thing if you're a PvE-er with no Balth faction to speak of and you want to try out this PvP thing people keep telling you about. You want to play the Deep? Better take an energy hiding set on any caster. You want to play an Auspicious Incantation bar? Better take a battery set. You want to heal? Definitely need batteries for when your team screws up and needs to cut and run.

The system as implemented annoys me - given a proper trading system, I could glance at what's on offer periodically, then run the game in a window and do other things (work?) on my computer while waiting for the telltale "ding" that tells me that someone's at least interested in what I have.

However, it's that above player with simple needs and simple items that is so ill-served by the current system. The system as implemented basically says to that player, "Look, pal, the only stuff that's worth anything around here is the stuff the hardcore folks farm. If you ever want to have the money to give your characters proper gear (just functionally perfect/near-perfect, not pretty), get on that train for a few weeks and buy what you need with the proceeds. If you ain't got that kind of time and patience, ain't nobody here got a use for ya."

I don't think this is the sort of message ANet's investors want the casual player to get. It definitely isn't the message ANet sold players when they marketed this game.

As for the skill capping/earning cash doing so discussion - I don't know about the rest of you, but when I sucked it up, bought the bullet and slammed out Legendary Skill Hunter, I ran around any mob it was possible to run around, as doing so was the most efficient method of accomplishing my primary objective (capping the skill). If you want to make money, do something that efficiently makes money. If you want to cap a skill, spending time fighting unnecessary mobs actually causes you to lose money (that opportunity cost of time rearing its ugly head again).

Martin Alvito

Martin Alvito

Older Than God (1)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reetkever
And perhaps this is the problem with the game. A-Net wants too much cash out of the economy, while not lowering the prices.
Nothing wrong pulling cash out; indeed, failure to do so leads to rampant inflation in the long run. However, maintaining balance in even a simplified economy such as this one isn't an exact science. You're fallaciously assuming that ANet controls prices for things. They've deliberately chosen to permit the market to determine costs, and even introduced traders to cut down on the transaction costs associated with certain common items. They don't control prices. In fact, the game released without rare materials or rune traders. In the first couple of months, if you wanted a Superior Rune of Swordsmanship you had to find somebody with one and agree on a price.

(It's worth noting that the initial coding for these traders was an epic failure; margins were so high that players largely bypassed them entirely and continued to trade directly with one another. The trader apparently interpreted this as inflationary and continually raised prices on items with any demand. An ugly inflationary spiral ensued that ended with Monk Superior runes for 55 farming costing 60-80k and ectos at 35k from the trader before ANet finally decided to scrap that batch of code and reset the traders to charging 100 gold for everything. Apparently programming a market economy's harder than it looks.

The trader reset fiasco then led to huge lines of people trying and failing to buy items at the trader that would instantly sell for vastly more on the open market. But eventually it all worked out for the most part.)

What we have here in our GW gold is a currency here that is pegged up to a point. In-game cash converts directly to certain necessities (armor, skills, Sigils to change guild halls) for which demand tends to diminish as time passes. The flow of new players at this point is such that most current players have far less of a need for those basic necessities than they did two years ago shortly after release.

ANet also introduced a long list of changes early in the game which eliminated PvP-oriented players' need for gold, although many of those players continued heavily with PvE at least through factions due to the myriad of benefits PvE players enjoyed.

The upshot is that the flow of cash out of the game into those basics is greatly reduced since the early days of the game. Presumably ANet looked at their statistics, saw that an ever-growing amount of cash was accumulating in player storages, saw the writing on the wall and decided to do something about it (in the form of the new gold sinks) before upsetting things happened in the economy.

Now, loot scaling took a LOT of the supply of cash out of the economy. At the same time, inertia compelled them to leave the existing gold sinks in the game, creating massive deflationary pressures that were just as destabilizing as the inflation they sought to avoid. Maybe these changes were totally necessary to balance hard mode drop rates, and maybe they weren't.

Again, apparently balancing an economy is harder than it looks. But then again, didn't they include enough alphas to be able to extrapolate statistically the consequences of their actions and then compensate? If not, why not? In-game economies make and break games...

A comment on the vanity weapons story: the reason the hardcore vanity weapons still sell for big money is because they are totally unaffected by loot scaling. Loot scaling redefined the vanity market rather significantly; lots of stuff that was worth 100k + XXX ectos lost 99%+ of value due to massive increases in supply. The things that still command the big bucks cannot be farmed. Either they're legacy req 7/8 weapons, they drop exclusively in the Hall of Heroes and are consequently unaffected by loot scaling, or the drop rate is so ludicrously low (ele sword) that prices have come down but not collapsed, as supply still has not caught up with demand.