Loot Scale: A Valid Arguement

Strangely enough, I would define a casual player to be someone that plays casually.
I think that in an ideal world most casual players would choose to play in full teams all the time, but are forced to farm because without doing so, the basics are out of reach..

If you're content running the same skills over and over and over then you'd be right, but quite frankly I only know one person that can does that. Personally, I'm not having fun unless I have created a new build to run out with. Even getting just 2-3 new skills per week for each of your characters would cost 20-30k - more than you could ever hope to make playing "normally" for 1-2 hours/day.

Keys and chests are a basic game elements, having fun shouldn't be restricted to those that have big bank accounts.

Because of loot scaling the supply of gold in the system has gone down. The demand for gold has stayed the same or maybe even gone up some. This translates into a player market (that would be where the prices aren't fixed) where 1000 gold will get you more stuff after the update than before.


I have never ever had to farm, I make most of my money by doing these "adventuring sessions" with heroes and henchies. Thing is, I don't need to buy keys. Keys are a gold sink for players who have too much gold already. I really don't need to buy skills either after a certain point, many of the skills being pretty bad anyway.

This whole argument depends on how a casual player is defined, I see farming as something that automatically disqualifies somebody from being a casual player. So in my mind the casual players ability to make gold has not been impeded by loot scaling.

But sadly enough, it doesn't. Does 2K now give you 2 Superior Salvage Kits, or 4 skills? No.


Yes but you are you. You can't speak for everyone that way.

I DID have to farm. Now, I can't speak for everyone, either, but what I want is good for everyone (more cash for everyone is good than less cash for everyone, in a market where most stuff has fixed prices).

We're not all experienced, either. When playing a new character, you don't know which skills are good or not. I, for one, don't want to walk with the same skills all the time. I want to try out new builds and combinations. But that, too, has been killed by the lootscaling that has nothing but downsides for everyone except bots.

And we casual players want to enjoy the game too, by buying keys. Just because this lootscaling is here, we can't. If A-Net really cared about casual players, they made the rewards of questing/missioning better, and made the prices of stuff like keys less (which will, surprisingly, also bring down the price of gold, rare skinned weapons. That is what A-Net wanted, right?)


So only lucky people are casual players according to you? I'm not so lucky. Doing quests/missions does NOT give me the cash needed for the stuff I want to buy. The game's low reward and drop rate forces me to farm. So do I get the title of 'Hardcore farmer' then?

Very well said

Ok, I do understand your pain a little more now.
I think our main difference here is that I've specialized in one profession (mesmer) at the moment and have one other (monk) I play regular.
Before this it was ranger and monk.
When I would be playing my 7 PvE characters all at the same time, it would be a huge gold drain indeed.

My mesmer and monk are both more than a year old, meaning they have unlocked the majority of their primary skills already.
I try to make builds that give benefit to the primary, that makes a lot of skills useless.
I also checked wiki on skill description (faster than checking at Balth. priest), since by the description you can find out quite fast if a skill is worth 1K .

Keys have been known to be gold drains for a long time now, even before loot scaling.
One of the first lessons people with low cash were told (after the infamous 'just go farm gold') was to stop opening chests.

I have to agree on this one.
Playing the storyline and side quests does net enough gold to cover basic needs.
Prophecies was hard on cash, specially on my first character.
My second had the advantage of having a higher level character providing left-over collectable drops for armor and some maxed (white/blue) weapons, making things easier on that one.

With Factions, I made sure both my Sin and Rt were able to fund themselfs, which was totally possible. In this time, I did a little VwK farming to get Kephket's and to get my monk 15K Kurzick (with Amber still expensive).
I got bored after a couple of days (a few days a run), so I got back pugging.

With Nightfall, cash was even less of a problem. Both my Para and Dervish paid their own 15K Sunspear armor, gained by gameplay (they both never reached Vabbi, so they were not that far in the game).
All this was without farming to fund them.
A couple of months ago I started farming with a guildie, duo monk several areas. This was for the fun and the cash is still on my monk. Some golds moved to storage and mule characters, I have not sold a single one in the game.

With normal gameplay (playing full teams) I managed to get:
- Skill Hunter Tyria/Cantha on my mesmer (that's a lot of cap-sigs)
- a couple of Vabbi armor parts on my mesmer
This was not in a couple of days, but more in a couple of months.
I made most of the cash for this with my three GMC titles (exploring with full teams) and helping people out on HM missions/vanquishing.

I know this is my experience, but stating that this is not possible for a 'casual player' is just not true. It just takes time.

[QUOTE=manitoba1073]I don't care what it was, my point was with the entire new system i can afford crap for the first time now, and i STILL make good money, For the people who cant make good money you must be lazy as hell, or just don't know where to farm. You can pretty much always beat the system.

Ummm - before you go on with this debate - is there anything left to debate about?

My experience is that lately, in normal mode, at least in low level areas, there is no more loot scaling in effect. The first 5 or so kills in each area drop very little. (that's actual kills, not first 5 mobs - if you run past the first few mobs the first 5 kills you make still yield almost nothing) After that I have received a drop from every single kill in normal mode in Shing Jea, Pre-searing, and Istan. Soloing in other areas is more difficult but I have received a high drop rate trapping vamps in normal mode in Urgoz Warren. Outside Bergen I was running a bad build for the area but managed to kill 20 after the first group of 5 and got a drop for every single one.

I honestly believe loot scaling has been removed from normal mode/low end areas and perhaps from normal mode altogether.

So, how about trying some soloing out in different areas before carrying on with this debate?

OMG man! I thought you were casual player as you said but well.... You have title hunters and GMC`s! You may not be hardcore but are you sure you are casual. Most casuals I know dont have 15k armor or skill hunter or GMC! You surely would get 15k armors if ya earn GMC.I t would take much longet then farmin BEFORE NERF. I have like 700k in storage now and i am not spending it for like 2 month. FOR ME ITS REALLY LONG TIME TOGET 700. i was used t \o earn like 700k in 1-1.5 weeks it had hurted me ALOT. Can anyone tell me who benefited other then bots? bots can sell gold easier now and everyone know no one losts acount of gold buying. In my old allience many people were buying and telling they dont get near banned. they really had 4-5 set of fow(what a useless work of real money to get game lol) After all as bots still continue farm they should make gol\od money. the only thing that casuals may benefit would be if they had like50k 100k item woukld be donw to 50k and be able to but after all a zodiac sword went down from millions to 100k still arent their buseness they still cant get it beside armors gone harder to get

Quoting myself, I bought Lord of the rings Online and it's great.
Hobbit burglar FTW.

I will still look out if loot scaling is removed from GW and might
come back someday if it is removed. I don't want to buy money
from money reseller and don't have huge amount of time to spent
to farm right now.

Sure, monthly fees suck but at least I don't think they will prevent
me from playing the way I want to play. Farming is great when it's
not too complicated and it's pay for the time you invest in it(IMHO).

See ya some day and most importantly.... have fun. ^_^

[QUOTE]first example of financial stupidity.

superior kits cost 20 per cent more per use so buy the regular kits buy 4 get the 5th kit free

runes/mods/insignias are not fixed and i need them at a good price much more than you need to buy another skill

B]espcially since you can test drive the skill for FREE and then decide if you want it after all.[/B]


if you are playing the game for the joy of chest opening ........
keys are like a lotto ticket not needed and loses most of the time

[QUOTE=Loviatar]I never said I actually used Superior Salvage Kits, did I? It was just an example. Superior Salvage Kits were handy to save space, but now that I can't even fill my Backpack after 2 hours of killing, there's no need.


[QUOTE=Loviatar]Why do you need them more? Runes drop farily often, and superior runes are exempt from the loot scaling. No problems should be there for you. Or you could farm.. Oh wait, you can't cause it's nerfed...

[QUOTE=Loviatar]How can you test drive a skill for free? I can't place a skill on my skillbar for free somehow, exept in PvP, but PvP and PvE are 2 entirely different things, so the skills work entirely different as well.

And reading doesn't work either. If a skill says it does +41 damage, the actual damage done is still 5-10.


[QUOTE=Loviatar]I think I may decide what I enjoy or not. I don't care about the drops, I like the thrill of opening chests. It's not needed, but who cares?

Do you live on dry bread and water? No. This is a game, should we be allowed to do nothing but the basics? Or can we enjoy a bit, as well?

Just as an aside, why is everyone using Superior Salvage Kits as an example of the detrimental effects of loot scaling. I have a 55 monk that I made to solo HM, and he uses a Superior Salvage Kit, and do you know what its at? 65. THATS THE FIRST ONE. Seriously, do you guys salvage every single salvage item and anything that isnt gold? I have probably made my money back from my superior salvage kit 3 times over from all the steel ingots I have salvaged from things.

When people that solofarm are considered casual, I'm casual.
Before I started working on my mesmers titles, I was what I consider a casual player.
The only reason I'm not considering myself casual anymore is because I'm more dedicated on getting titles, but otherwise my gameplay is still that of the casual player (playing in 8 person groups, doing missions/quests/spending time on maps) perhaps with the exception of my playing times (1-2 hours/night and more on weekends).


Not exactly, but it will get you a few pieces.

Well I think the term of casual player means that the player doesnt cares about the game and finished storyline few character with 1-2 hour a day and maybe want a good looking weapon. If someone want to achive very hard titles they arent casual anymore

First off letme tell you I don't usually post reply's. But after reading most posts in this thread I thought I really had to.

This last week I spoke to a player who bought his obsidian the e-bay way.
Normally I would call him pathetic , but then reason set in. I started thinking why would people buy e-bay gold simple: They want something in the game that they found to hard to obtain via normal gameplay. Now what has A-Net done; they made it even harder to get this sort of elite stuff. So more players will go to e-bay cause they dont want to spend ages farming for it. The customer base off bot-companies must have doubled thanks to the loot-scaling hence the bot-companies don't care to buy more accounts to make up for the loot-scaling. Hey wait more accounts?? Where do they get those accounts, sure some our stolen accounts but a fast number will be bought from you've guessed it A-Net!! Oh man i really want to see the bonus the employee from A-Net got for figuring this one out. Reading through this post I found it laughable how naive some people are. Look A-Net is a company like any other who wants to make a decent profit they are not some kind of charity. As for me I still enjoy the game just don't enjoy it like I used to. The funny thing is we finally got that bigger storage so now we can fill it with stuff we will never sell. There is one thing A-Net could do to make me believe that they really want to get bots out: Make the 15k armors 0k and only require you to get crafting materials to get them wont that be funny?

I've gotten my stash up quite nicely since loot scaling. Do you know why? Spite!

I had planned on working on titles while playing through the game with all of my characters, and expecting to make enough cash and materials to cover my ass for EoTN. Wasn't even coming close to happening, so I turned into a hardcore farmer.

Now, every character I have has a solo farming build on them 80% of the time, and I grind cash. Now I just wait for that stupid "bot-like behavior" message that anet seems to ador when banning people for the wrong reasons.

I'm loving it. Selling Dead Swords/Bows for 1k, max mods and inscriptions for 500 gold. So yeah, SPITE.

I definately won't be buying EoTN when it first hits the shelves like I did the others. There are some people' opinions I trust in these forums, and I'll watch their posts for a couple of months. Then I'll wait a bit longer for the screwups to get fixed, then a bit longer to see the first round of nerfs.

LotR.... Hmmmmmmmm.

KANE

What I don't understand is why it doesn't seem like people are willing to work for anything any longer. I do not consider myself a casual player, I tend to play 3-5 hours a day after work, and more on my weekends. I don't farm at all, as I find it boring, unless there is a green weapon I really want, and then I farm that one boss until I get it. Just running quests, vanquishing areas, or playing through elite areas like Tombs will net me around 3-5k minimum for a days playing, and I've never had more than 200k in storage. I don't sell to other players unless I just happen to see a WTB I can satisfy, and most of my greens and golds go to friends and heros.

So when I really wanted the Vabbian armor for my necro, I did what I thought most players did. I did as many quests for trade contracts as I could, (including running in characters from the other lands just to do Vabbi quests), bought gems from players when I saw a good price, and was *patient*. It took me 4 months to get my Vabbi, and I'm proud that I worked so hard for it. Every time I see it, I'm reminded that I really earned it. If I had been able to get it just on a whim, or in a very short period of time, it wouldn't mean anywhere near as much to me. I have 15 characters, some of whom have 15k armor and some who don't , and the ones I've worked for are the ones I take the most pride in. I want to get FoW for my monk, and I know it's going to probably take me a year, but I don't mind. It's a goal that's always in the back of my mind every time I get an ecto or shard drop. I've got a long way to go, but that's what happens when you want something elite.

No, he did not say that only lucky people are casual players, he said that - and I agree with him - anyone who farms is not a casual player (and casual players don't farm). I assume that in all this farming means solo-farming - since the drops did not decrease for groups - and solo-farming is not something the casual player will do.

If you need to farm to meet your needs then I doubt your needs are casual. You don't need to farm solo to play this game.

Buying keys is not casual. Keys are money pits, you spend more gold on buying the keys then you get back from the items.

Loot scaling improved the situation for the casual players, since the drops haven't been reduced for full sized parties. Since the prices in general have dropped, the casual player can now buy more for the same amount of combat and questing.

On the Battle Islands

Yes, you may.
It's a money sink and it means your needs for funding are not the same as those of a casual player. But I am sorry that you have to farm more now for those keys, that the scaling affected your gameplay negatively.

i liked the old system for loot was better than the new loot scaling method.

cant we have a poll or something to see how many players would prefer the old system to the new one?

i mean. i think the new system is pretty much the same as the older one, ecept white items are scaled.....and i used to generate a lot of money from selling white items.

BRING BACK THE OLD SYSTEM!!!!!

Agreed.
As for the Loot Scaling Poll.

Granted.

I got a screenshot of me just finished killing 23 vermin and only receiving 5 drops. Do i need to say more?

Ehm, I do have to farm to play this game. Isn't doing fun stuff playing the game? Why can only lucky people who get great drops do nice stuff?

And I am a casual player, but I HAVE to farm. I have no choice. So A-Net makes the game better for casual players, but at the same time forces everyone to farm.

So? A-net wants to improve the game for casual gamers, they say. So why can't we still do anything except the storyline? With farming, at least we could invest a little time and in return do fun stuff, but now, that has been killed, and we got nothing in return.

That's the Exemption of items, not the loot scaling. The loot scaling made prices go up, because less and less came into the market, making it more rare and thus worth more. The scaling didn't improve things for full party's either, since the drops are the same. They only made it worse for people not playing with 7 other ppl.


That isn't before you arrive in LA. And even then, monsters in PvE work different than targets in the Battle Islands. What works there might suck in PvE, and vica versa.

I am a casual player as well. I play 2 hours or less per day, and when I farmed, it was only 3 minutes. Everybody farms even 1 run per week to gain cash. So you're saying we're all hardcore farmers?

The scaling affected everyone's gameplay negatively.

It's the exemption list and hard mode-better drops that make things better for LUCKY PEOPLE ONLY.

please. im begging someone to put a poll up regarding player preference of the old loot system vs the new one.

from what im reading. there's this "casual player" debate that keeps cropping upas the main validation for loot scaling.

but im not a casual player. im the type of guy who likes collecting loads and loads of armours and weapons, that's the way i play the game, this is just what i find fun, my ranger has 2 15k sets and an ancient set alone : P - i enjoy farming, it's a challenge for me, and i get a kick out of being able to generate lots of money - and lets face it, i need it with the way i play the game.

and besides, after wiping out most of the grawl in witmanns folly and receiving items that altogether gave me around 400g...........come on.

come on someone. put the poll up so that Anet can see there are a lot of us who want the old system back.

Gee, I must be one of the lucky people, since both statements do not apply to me.

A lot of people here on the forum and at the moment specially in the loot scaling threads are forgetting one thing.
That is that guru and other sites do NOT represent the entire GW community.

I know quite a number of people on my friendslist don't care at all about loot scaling, since they only play in full size parties.
They don't visit forums, but are just happily playing the game.

Making a poll is futile, since you get the reactions from those that are not happy with the situation. You won't see a lot of people that agree or just don't care.
Why? Those people are not on the forum, since the active forum users are only a small part of the entire GW community.

Every time a 'nerf' is made, a part of the community will cry out loud, because they think their game is too much affected by the change.
There always must be someone to blame.
For skill changes, we blame the PvP community and for farming nerfs we blame the bots. In both cases we blame A-net for not doing their job right.

Bots are not a real problem (though very visible).
They generate a steady stream of cash (24x7) in the economy, but only if they can sell this.
If I recall, A-net banned more than 5.000 bots in one month, of which we don't know how many were able to sell their gold ingame.

However.....
According to Reetkever: "Everybody farms ....."
What do you think generates more new gold in the game?
5.000 bots (or even 10.000, if you really think there are many more active bots in the game, please give some statistics).
Or hundreds of thousands of players that farm (even if it's only once a week) because they can't afford anything (at least, that's what I hear on this forum).
Since those human farmers are active in the game, they most probably spend most of this gold (else people should not be complaining, but just burning the cash in their vault). This is what causes inflation, not some E-bayed gold.

It's my opinion that A-net made a good change with loot scaling.
And I also know about 1% of the forum users here at guru will agree that.
The other 99% either does not care or will strongly oppose.

The majority of people in the US don't freakin turn out to vote either, but the views of the ones that due clue you in on the percentage of people that give a rats ass (That didn't make ANY sense, I know) LOL. Anyway, the percentage here on Guru seem to want the old system back.

I really don't care myself. I've turned farmer in HM and that's that.

KANE

just because it doesn't affect you or your friends, doesn't make it a better change, and it also doesn't make it less important.

and besides. what specifically do YOU have to lose as a player if the old system is back? you say you play in teams of 8, so advocating the old system will 1) not affect your play style and 2) get you more drops when ur soo-ing - which u might decide to try in the near future.

so stop putting us old-system guys down, were not advocating a bad change. this is a change in the BASIC gameplay of the game, it's not one skill, or that monster mob now runs from aoe......so it's easy to see why there is so much shock and negativity towards it.

jeeezez, sometimes i think there are people out there who are getting PAID to say loot scaling is the best thing since the wheel (-__-)

and no poll is ever futile. so what if it will be a bitchfest of negativety? wheres the rule that said polls always had to be happy? and doesn't the expectation of negative responses SUGGEST to us the general feeling of the gaming populace towards loot scaling?

so seriously - i would really urge someone to put it up.

together, we can shine a light in Anets eye : P

Wow, you anti-loot scaling people need to give the hell up. The only people I see complaining are the people that were probably WAY too invested into ecto and rarities. Too bad you lose, GG.

seriously? who's paying you to be pro-loot-scaling?

cos i just dont buy your arguments drago43. tell me? how has life become BETTER since loot scaling?

all drops drop as they normally would
white items scale.

so the money u pro-lootscalers are making, you would have made anyway, and prehaps u would have made more without scaling of white items.

look. here's how i see it.

i want to get an ascended armor set.

before loot scaling this would take me around a week of farming.

now WITH loot scaling, i'd be lucky if i can scrounge up the money in a month, i'd have to do run after run after run after run.......for the same amount.

U just cant keep the loot dropping this LOW, and expect us to fork over the same amount of money for ascended armor. thats the same as keeping the rent the same and decreasing our wages.


SOMETHING has to change. either fixed prices go down, or loot scaling goes off.....but then my argument is, having low prices and low drops is the SAME as having high prices and high drops....

so no matter WHAT Anet do, the ONLY way they can win against the bots is if they have High prices and Low drops.....(which is the current situation)...this way, demand outweighs supply and resources of the bot farmers. but it's at the cost of making everyone else suffer in the game.

are you catching my drift?

I think you fail to realize how much work ANet has to put in just to catch and stop all of the bots that are in the game. If we assume that your idea of more bots in GW is correct, than we can also assume that to limit that number, ANet will also have to do more work in order to catch these criminals. Sorry, but ANet has other things to worry about, such as the weekend events that keep people moving to different parts of the game, the upcoming expansion and sequel, and routine skill changes to fix the metagame. ANet has better things to do than let everyone sit at the computer and ban everyone using a bot.

Now, for the rest of your argument, it just flops on itself to me. The whole time you're moaning about nerfed loot scaling, you speak about how you can still get good prices in the Auction section of the Guru, and how chest running hasn't been nerfed. If you've discovered these alternatives, then there are certainly other ways of getting the loot that you want. Of course, you'll never do that, because you lack motivation. That's your problem, not ANet's.

If you're playing the game solely for the purpose of achieving mass wealth, and you're finding yourself depressed by the game because you can't get that, stop playing. Uninstall Guild Wars, put it away, and bring it back out when GW:EN is released. You don't have to bother yourself with the task of doing more runs just to make whatever profit you "need" to make up whatever you missed.

I was using my Rit today to get from Moddok Crevice to The Kodash Bazaar. I got a gold in the mission and a green from one of the bosses on the way. I have also spent lots of time recently farming for the LB title with my Ranger, and he's been able to get plenty of golds, as well as some points for his Treasure Hunter, Wisdom, Lucky, and Unlucky title tracks. Yes, I was doing chest runs. Out of that, I've scored a few greens, almost enough golds to get the first rank in both Wisdom and Treasure Hunter, and a number of rare weapon modifiers, which I'm selling on the Guru right now.

There are other ways to make money. Loot scaling was not the only way, and if you have a problem with that, do something else. The value of every item did not get multiplied by 8, just because it's a little harder to get. Try to sit back and enjoy Guild Wars instead of just playing for wealth.

Finally, you mentioned using gold sinks in order to get rid of bot gold. I'm not sure exactly how that would work. It seems to me that gold sinks would increase demand for gold, and yet, the bots wouldn't be using them. Supply stays the same and demand rises, so they get to jack up their fees even more. That's a loss, as far as I can see.

[QUOTE]the designers never intended 15K work to earn it vanity armor to be bought with only a weeks work .

now WITH loot scaling, i'd be lucky if i can scrounge up the money in a month, i'd have to do run after run after run after run.......for the same amount.

a month is much more like it as you can actually say i well............worked to earn it.

you are supposed to work for vanity armor or everybody would have it

the loot drop has not changed for casual players in groups and the solo can still get OFFICIALLY NOT A GUESS at least twice his rightful share not the wrong quote of 1/8


[QUOTE]SOMETHING has to change. either fixed prices go down, or loot scaling goes off.....but then my argument is, having low prices and low drops is the SAME as having high prices and high drops....[/QUOTE]

no way sherlock...........no way at all


wrong as prices are down not up.

this should have been done a year and a half ago.

here is what the head designer says

the only players guaranteed to have a royal bitchfest as proven since the infamous Riverside nerf long ago are the hardcore farmers however they choose to describe themselves with casual being the most laughable

If bots are not a problem, why did A-Net nerf griffons? They definately see a threat in bots, or just ban accounts so that bots re-buy, making A-Net even richer.

Inflation doesn't matter if prices are set.

As for the weapons. If A-Net just made keys cheaper and golds drop more recently, prices would drop dramatically, and the casual player would be happy.

That having said, the economy BEFORE the update was good. So why change it?

The economy before the scaling was casual player-friendly. Now, it is hardcore farmer-friendly only.

Also, what are the benefits you got from loot scaling?

Cheaper stuff? Sorry that isn't the loot scaling. It's the exemption list, combined with the fact that PRICES DON'T EVEN DROP SO MUCH.

Or is it maybe because you already got your fortune, and you don't want other ppl to get it, too?

If A-Net just IMPROVED our drops instead, prices would've gone up a bit, too, but the improved drops made up for this.
It would be EASIER, however, to buy the set-price things (which are the problem).

Also, a poll would do fine, cause the percentage of unhappy people on the forum is less than in the game. Seeing how most people just left, the other part is too busy farming their @$$ off, and another part doesn't even know about forums.

I'd say there are more A-Net loyal fanboi's here than there are unhappy players.



Saying how people should work for vanity is BS. A-net says themselves that they want to make it accesable to casual players. That was their intention of the loot scaling. But alas, another failed idea of A-Net, cause 15K armor, 15^50 crystallines and drunkard titles are STILL not accesable.

Instead of making things accesable, they made stuff UNaccesable.

If A-Net wasn't blinded with pride, they would notice this, apolagise and then reverse the scaling back to the old days, where it was perfect. But alas....

Gosh, is that all you an come up with? Your attempt to discredit other posters has just disqualified you and your post. Since nothing intelligent can come from you anyway, please go elsewhere and stop polluting this forum.

If all you can do is insult those that do not agree or support with your opinion, please go and do as you nick suggests.

wow did you read my post???

there's a divide between everyone who got their stuff before the nerf, and everyone who now have to get their stuff post-nerf.

i think the main reason why people are pissed of is because of....drum rolls.

15k armor sets.

but for various reasons, i don't expect the price of 15k sets to go down.

but here's hoping they may some day turn the 15k set to something like 10k

10k = 50k for a set
15k = 75k for a set.

thats 25k saved, and pretty much half of another 15k set : P

Actually the anti-loot scalers already won. There is no more loot scaling in normal mode. I lost count how many times I have tested this but my results are always the same - after 5 kills EVERY SINGLE KILL DROPS LOOT in normal mode when killed one at a time.

There is still an inequity when many kills are made at one time. It seems you get 1/2 or less loot when killing several things at one. I don't know if this is intentional or a glitch but it has been completely consistent in all my tests as well. Kill lots of things at once get less loot. (frankly, I think it is this that is causing the greatest amount of complaining and I do think ANet needs to fix this as it will make the game very unplayable for spell caster characters.)

But once again THERE IS NO LOOT SCALING IN NORMAL MODE!

Don't believe me? - go to any areas where your character is able to kill things one at a time in solo mode - discount the first 5 kill and see how much loot drops from that point on!

LOL^^ No loot scaling? I would just laught it. Then please tell why troll farm is netting less then 100gold per run. OH OH You said you kill mobs seperate. Then why is farm. Killing mobs seperate will take ages.

AND THERE SHOULD BE A POLL BUT NOT IN THIS FORUM. IN GAME.

OH btw there is a loot scaling alot. Drops at normal mode is pathetic or lets say non and loot in hm is like half of before. I really think that way

Whoa -- slow down.

I said loot scaling does not exist - I did not say that there is no loot nerfing.

Loot scaling was just one way of limiting the amount of loot a party gets - it was based on party size. This no longer applies in normal mode (haven't had much time to test since yesterday's update, however - so I don't know if the situation is still the same or not)

But that does not mean that I like what they replaced it with. They now seem to limit loot according to killing method. AoE damage produces less loot than melee.

I really think this is more of an abomination than scaling was.

Most of my farming is done melee style but when I play the game AoE style with full H&H I get almost nothing. I suspect those who say they clear entire areas and get only one or two drops are correct. And I think this is a horrible thing to do to monks, elementalists and other casters.

And yes, I believe scaling is still in effect for HM - just not for NM

Regardless - it won't get us anywhere debating something that no longer exists - we need to talk about the situation as it is now - and the situation as it is now is that there is no loot scaling - BUT THERE IS SOMETHING WORSE.

If the guildwars team wanted to gun at bots they should have made some simple new content thats bottable farmable it shouldnt be an ideal farmspot, but perfect for botting and boring for players something that doesnt really take all attention at itself monitor it for a month then ban the bots.

For example turn it into something thats only 55 able but make it a drag to do if your actually playing this way it should minimise the people doing it and lure most of the bots there. Make it exploitable for 1 or 2 days to lure the bots then secretly reduce it so normal players get no benefit from doing this.

If Im right this should be a solid solution for most bots that have owners that cant think as far as this.

Having to do repeated forays to scrounge up 2k fo a Superior Salvage kit is not fun.

I don't farm greens, rare materials, chest run, or trade.

I used to get any extra gold from whites and common materials - oh, that's right, they were scaled to reduce bots.

Junk the loot scaling and bring back the bots I say!

sry if I misunderstood of that cause those words causal player loot nerf loot scale aoe blah blah all mixed up