Loot Scale: A Valid Arguement

The problem is underline above. Yes, you can still sell the valuable
items/mods to player, but it can take forever and the profit made
doesn't always worth it.

Before Loot Scaling, items were expensive but casual players could
afford them. When you find a valuable mods, selling it took less time
and profit was good.

Now with loot scaling, some items dropped price but others are still
expensive and casual players can't afford them. If a casual player find
a valuable mods, he might not have the time nor the patience to
sell it and the profit is usually horrible.

Maybe, for you, you never felt the difference before and after loot
scaling. But for me, its horrible. I liked farming. I liked expensive stuff.
I wanted to have a more unique character in PvP that a cookie cutter
PvP character.

So for people like me (i'm not alone, I think), what is the solution?
- Farm green? doesn't pay a lot lately, overfarmed
- Farm gold weapon? hard to sell too. ridiculous price lately b/c of green
- Farm white? can't with loot scaling. horrible profit
- Treasure chest? sure, once in a month
- Chest running? you need money to buy keys and profit aren't always there
- Farm tomes in HM? maybe, i'll try to see if it pay
- Play PvE? do I have to play the same story ever and ever to have
a lil amount of cash?
- Buy Platinum? expensive but could solve my problems
- Quit GW and don't bother about it anymore? would be sad but I consider it
- Play PvP? sure it's fun but it doesn't pay a lot

Maybe i'm missing some solution for people like me.

Don't say "Have less expensive taste". People like you didn't cared about
15k armor and don't care about them even after loot scaling. I wonder
how loot scaling affected your life.

And for bots, they continue farming as before. I think gold seller are
making more money now than ever before because of loot scaling.
Do you really think it affect a computer that it make 8 times less
money? Does it affect gold seller? Of course yes, positively, it give
them more customers. I never thought about buying money before.

Anyway, I still think Loot Scaling wasn't the way to go and I surely
won't buy GW:EN and GW2 if Loot Scaling is still in effect. I know,
I know, you won't regret me. I will find my fun elsewhere.

...that is the question.

How many players want to buy a sweet game like Guild Wars and then, as some of the more frugal crowd seem to suggest, simply play the missions, quests, and such using only the minimum armors and weapons? No "ego" gear...just collector stuff or whatever you can scrounge up with your "mission gold".

Sounds really inviting huh? Is that really why we buy the game and play?

Let's get real for a minute. The average player plays to "accomplish"...to win. It isn't just about missions and such, its also about LOOT! Pride of accomplishment...bragging rights. A player needs a goal for crying out loud. Of course you can finish the game using the basic kit. Everyone who played in the early days of Prophecies knows that. .But why? Why settle? Fell Blades and Dwayna's Grace. Nightbringers and Forge Armor. Sephis Axes and Black Dyes. Colossal Swords...uh...maybe not...

The thrill of the drop...maybe solo farmers need to be honest with the community.

That's right, time to come clean about why you do it. It's not really just about the gold or acquistition of uber-wealth....I mean, it's all good to have a lot of gold in storage and uber-kit but is it all about that sweet-ass Grotto armor you were sporting "back in the day"? Nope, it's really all about the rush you get when that rare item finally drops, when that rat-bastard boss finally gives up the green or when the chest pops an elem sword or a low req crystalline. What solo-farmer hasn't had an uber-drop laying on the ground and briefly, just for a second, not wished that there was another player standing next to you to "share" in the moment? A witness to your leetness...(or at least be there as a "gloat-target). No, the victory dance usually goes unnoticed...but you felt the RUSH! And once you have felt it, there is no going back. How many of you remember the first time you finished a full solo griffon run in the Desert? Surrounded by piles of dead girffons...loot scattered as far as the eye could see...remember the feeling...OMGZ LOOTZ...or maybe after tweeking your build you had that moment, that first time feeling of accomplishment when you were standing alone in the middle of a group of dead hydras...those same critters that not long ago had been p0wning your PUG? How did it feel?

I...AM....A.....GOD!

Yeah...the rush....if you weren't there, you won't understand. It wasn't all about greed...it was about the pride of accomplishment. (yeah, I know, the gold didn't hurt either)

oh, the anti-farmers will say such things as "no joy in a cookie-cutter build" or "OMGZNOOB SPLOITBIATCHES" but you know better. Who cares what they think? My game, my rules.

Loot-scaling? 1/8? Who bloody cares? It was never about the whites, blues, or purples. It was then and still is about golds and greens....and black dyes...and chest runs.

HM or die.

So, did Anet really go after the hard-core solo farmer? Hellz no...but they seem to have put a bit of a hurt on the casual farmer. The uber farmer is still out there doing the whole rush-addicted, farm grind, look'in for the uber-drop thing. And making gold...(of course, so are the bots but that's a different thread altogether).

Don't worry too much about the hard-core HM farmer...they are ok. Worry about the casual farmer trying to get enough for some "pride-armor" or that sweet staff....or to play that stripper

Just play the game? I agree 100%...play the bloody game, but to make an issue that collectors armor and weapons are "good enough" is like saying " I have no desire, no fire, no drive".

"I am content with the mundane, to be average, to be...normal". Screw "average". Anet creates a framework...the game is all me.

I submit to you that we play a game to relax, enjoy, and maybe escape our routine, if only for a few short hours. We choose to play the game for our own purposes...and thus we should never, ever concern ourselves with how others play or how others wish us to play. So the next time you are told that "average" is a good thing or the desire for uber-kit is somehow wrong and you should instead content yourself with joining a PUG and trudging through the game rather than striving for more, simply tell them to kiss your black-dyed, thrill-seeking, Forge Armored ass and STFU or you will smack them with your req 9 15^50 20/20 +30 crystalline...

In this game I am a solo farmer and a noob helper, a 55 monk and a team player, a chest-runner and an explorer, a leader and a follower. I play on my own terms and (so far) no nerf has ever stopped me from enjoying the game.

My name is Skyy Ardanien. I choose to be different.

Great for you if you can still enjoy the game after loot scaling. ^_^

As for me, I can't spent more than 3-4 hrs on GW per week
lately. I can't do a lot of money. I can't sold my stuff, and
making character to farm HM need some money investment.

I never had a uber FoW armor. Neither a Crystalline sword.
Neither [insert more than 300k stuff here]. That what I considered
to be the elitist armor and weapons I couldn't never afford
as a casual players.

I considered 15k armor has a achievement for a PvE player and
casual player. Now, even 15k armor are beyond my reach as a
casual player. Except once every month.

We are in agreement.

Casual players, those who cannot devote a great deal of time to the game, are hit hard by loot-scaling. Is this what Anet had in mind? I don't think so but, that does not change the reality of it. When I have time to devote to some HM farming I have little trouble making gold but, in Guild Wars, as in real life time = money.

Under the new loot-scaling format those who don't have the time don't get the gold. Of course it has always been that way to a certain extent, but not to the extreme that it seems to be today.

So where does this end up? It would seem that many players who wish to purchase more expensive items will break down and buy gold from some bot-site and use it in-game to satisfy what I see as a perfectly normal urge to own some cool stuff. That means more bots...and if bots were the ultimate target, and that looks very doubtful, then this little experiment is a failure. As proof that players are buying gold ask yourself why there are so many bots? It seems like there are more now than a month ago.

But if this is an attempt to assist the economy then I am not at all sure what it has accomplished. Was the economy broke?

I have said it before, there is an overall sense of discontent in the game lately. The major trading areas are somehow muted...not as vibrant. Not a lot of players buying and selling the usual stuff...not for the lack of trying though. Just seems like there is a lot of WTS and not a lot of WTB.

On the otherhand, if a major economic slowdown was part of the target goal then it would seem that this has indeed been accomplished.

Time = Money

....it will always be this way. But it makes sense that cutting back on the average players ability to make sufficient funds for certain "uber" armors and weapons is not really a noble thing to do. As I have stated before, this has not had huge impact on uber-farmers, those with the time to invest both in farming and in trading. Some very bright folks have pointed out that it isn't just about the time spent farming, it is often about the time spent trying to find buyers.

I have great hope that Anet will see this and make it right.

'nuff said.

I can only hope someone from Anet reads this thread.

I used to enjoy farming, I used to love soloing, but now...it seems to have no point. Sure I get a little bit more gold, but that's it. I just think that loot scale was too big of a drastic change for Anet to make in the game. Never has any other game made a change like this, that has been hated by so many.

My name is Skyy Ardanien. I choose to be different


Great post dude, just about hit the nail on the head with that one, lol..
Solo HM ftw!!

Couple of great posts Thumper.

I personally think that ANET are not thinking from a players perspective. A lot of decisions recently seem to be aimed at taking the fun out of the game. Loot scaling being the worse example of this.

I too, am making significantly more money from just playing the game than I ever did before. Everything is cheaper now, so I don't have to farm to get all my precious shinies anymore. It's good stuff.

Casual players aren't hit hard by loot scaling at all, the people who are hit hard were those who did low-end farming runs to build up huge stashes of gold. They are then able to offer higher prices on everything, thus causing inflation on forcing everyone else to farm if they want to buy anything.

I responded to remark about needing an economics course. You don't need an ecomics course to sell things in GW.

No, I don't farm, and since the scaling I've bought my character a 15k. As some stated, gold seems to come easier then before.

I agree with one person in page1! I perfect 12 of my characters aged ago before loot drop, each chars have at least one 15k armors, most skills and tons of greens. So nerfing the drop won't affect me, but imagine..... for new comer it's horrible! Seriously horrible! And I do agree I refuse to buy anything now beside new skills.

And yes.... I agree more with that same person! My most income now is the free NF treasure chest! Those chest offer free money and rare item, and they reset monthly.... so I could earn a lot if I am willing to spend time runing each character for it. (problem is.... how many ppl actually AWARE of these little freebies??)

I think the economy needed cooldown.
What was happening that more gold was getting in the economy, casual farmers (not casual players) outnumbering bots.
(I think the main problem was not the bots!)
This caused high prices in the player to player market, which could already been observed in Factions.
A-net did several attempts to cool things down (green item weekends, double chest rewards, double key drops), but the prices stayed quite high.
This continued in NF, partly supported by A-net (the unlocked chest rewards).
With an economy where the casual player cannot obtain a green except by solo-farming, something is broken.
This has nothing to do with the drops casual players got, but all with the buying power of the casual solo-farmers (people making several K in a couple of minutes, time after time).
I do remember the high green prices in Tyria before Factions, but with the introduction of Factions A-net introduced a lot more greens on the market.
I see this as a sign they wanted those to be available to more people.

When people were stating some prices (most greens and runes) were unfair, they were just told 'stfu and go farm'.
This is a double-bad situation. If someone does not like solo-playing, he's not going to get the items. If someone goes solo-farming, he contributes to the problem.

What A-net did with this nerf was taking away the quick gold gain for casual solo-farmers. Several K's in a couple of minutes is not possible anymore (except perhaps for some uber-farmers).
As a side effect, those casual solo-farmers have less spending power, lowering the non-perfect/high req rare-skin market.
This caused double trouble for them, since that was also more a casual farming market.
The high-end market will not be hit as hard.

I think this solved some problems with the economy, but introduced some others. Specially to those that used to have huge spending powers and now have only 1/8 of that left. They might be seeking other (non-legal) ways to get their spending power back.

It could also introduce problems on the rare skin market, since players are not making enough gold and stop farming them, forcing prices up again.
This would not be a real problem for the casual player, since I don't see those as skins for the casual player. For example, how many casual players are there with a Chaos Axe?

Okay so you're telling me... I'll get a gold every 12th or 13 monster?
Or if i farm outside of my newest/was potential area...If i kill 23 mantids I'll get a drop?

Um...i just came off the game to post here...I JUST BLOODY KILLED 23 of them and got NOTHING!!!!

MSK: 1 Anet: 0

What's getting worse is the remandable ammount of LAG! *runs to Bergen*
OMFG! 25-37 Mo/W's. Um anyone realising anything wrong with this picture?

PING COUNT: 37,980
Internet Connection: 24mbs

hmmm okay..ANET! Either Wake up and start re-evaluating your current position or start looking for another career. I was in the Haiju Lagoon not too long ago and I had a new ritualist ask me... "Why arent we getting any drops?" I replied. "Anet's made sure no-one gets any"...This Ritulist has now moved to WoW...Just like that.

GG ANET.

I've been playing Gw for about nine months and prices have fallen. For instance, a FDS used to be worth selling and IDS were ultra-rare. Superior vigor runes used to cost 36K, and hardly ever dropped! Green prices have fallen, especially for items such as Exuro's and Milthuran's for example which drop just outside outposts.

The economy has changed. It used to be worth one's while to stand in LA trying to sell a good (but not brilliant) gold. Now --> straight to the merch.

I'm not as rich, especially now I can't farm vermin in NM. But I can buy more stuff with my money! many greens are within my reach. I trade less and play more. This is a GOOD THING.

Miss nuking those vermin, though

[QUOTE]you already have a proven track record of being wrong on almost everything.

did anybody tell you its random drops?



were you even aware that there are many hops on the way to the Anet servers that Anet has no control over which has nothing to do with how good a connecion you have to your ISP?

i think that has reached a new level of ignorance even for you.

drive away a new player with a answer that is either a lie or complete ignorance

Balls to the walls man, you said it all with that.

If people really want to make money, HM is there to solve that problem.

The idea isnt farmin nerfed now the drops are 'CURSED'. In HM too. Not tell me what am I gonna do with a req9 15^50 sword without an extreme skin. Koss gonna like it I suppose 1 gold never better then 10k worth of whites after all both are merchant valuse cause no one buys it. After all the drop rate is like that too. In before nerf you couldnt earn 10k in time you can loot a single gold now. HM farming isnt so different from normal mode. The point is drop rate of HM is less than 1/5 of before nerf.

Hmm...

Let's ask ourselves.."What was loot scaleing meant to do?"

A: Lessen the amount of gold coming into the game.

Has it worked? Yes. But what has lowered the cost of so many rare items such as golds, greens, collosal schimitars, dead swords, deadbows, and various other rare items?--Hard mode, and thats good right? Who doesnt want to have a 15^50 Collosal for 50k?

WELL...with loot scaleing it is now amazingly hard to get that 50k, or even the 10k for buying new max armor. You get 100g for killing 20 monsters, and about 2k for vanquishing a zone in hardmode, however solo-farming in Hard mode has seemed to dish out pretty good profits. However, How many "Casual" players have Hardmode unlocked and have a decked out 55 toon ready to farm bosses, or what Casual player even wants to? Barely any..the fact is that Solo Hardcore Hardmode farmers are reaping the benifits that were supposed to go for the casual players, and casual (and new) players are left in the dust because they dont farm hardmode, as they just want to play through the game regularly for about one or two hours a day.

SO i think Lootscaleing has pretty much backfired. Casual players are takeing it in the Arse, New players are having a grindfest to get the armor that costs even 50g a piece, and SoloHardcore Hardmode farmers are...well...happy.

Thumper, your post brought tears to my eyes. As everyone has said, you have nailed the reason I solo farm. It is for the adrenaline rush of seeing those mobs drop a max gold req9 rare skin! Nothing beats the anxiousness as you double click your ID kit, cross your fingers and pray for 15^50. This is just one of the things that makes Guild Wars great.

However, before you start calling me a fanboy, let me start bashing. Loot Scaling has made solo farming less enjoyable because of the sheer lack of good drops. Hard Mode was supposed to benefit solo farmers who were skilled enough to play it. This almost immediately went downhill into the mess that farming is now. If I HM farm on my 55 for 2 hours (which I cannot bear to do anyway) I may get 2 drops that LOOK good (req9 gold) but they turn out to be pieces of crap. This makes my 2 hours all for naught. I will never stop farming as long as I play GW, for I am greedy and want to feel P*I*M*P walking around with my weapons that make you salivate, but I cant help but feel that lootscaling has taken just a bit of the joy out of something that was not broken (exploited mabye, but not broken.)

Again thumper I just have to say that your post was inspiring (okay mabye I am a thumper fanboy ) and it took my mind off of all of those miserable treads going right now about how messed up GW is, and it reminded me of why I play this game.

Don't pay attention to Loviatar... it's a proven fact that he/she is against farmers in general. He/she's post can be dismissed. Talk about a proven track record.........

KANE

Woot! Made Pathfinder ragging on someone. *tear

HAHA grats Kane. Yes Loviatar really does hate us farmers. He never misses the chance to try to blame us for all his woes.

The problem that I see with the whole lootscaling idea is the reason it was implemented. It was implemented to reduce the amount of gold coming into the game, and reduce the effectiveness of bots. The way I see it howver is that it has done both of those remarkably well at the expense of those who farm for the thrill and cash.

Lootscaling has done a teriffic job lowering prices on nearly everything, but now sellers are poor, and buyers can buy what they want. However, this is the sort of thing that leads to an economic crash. If people cannot earn a decent profit off farming greens (for example) then they will stop farming them, and the green market will shrivel and die.

The other problem is that this was done to reduce the effectiveness of bots. Ah yes, those bots that are ruining out game so severely. I agree that something needed to be done, but not this! This has merely put a 2 second cripple on bots while giving legit HM farmers a total Mindfreeze . So many other suggestions were put forward as to how bots could be dealt with, and correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody said "give us less money" so they are less effective. That is probably the last thing anyone wanted. The solution to make them less effective is to make us poor? I know that when I play a game I am willing to invest the time and effort to make myself rich, and I don't see why the war against bots should ruin my fun. kinda like nuking the playground to see if Osama wont go there any more eh?

The problem is people are too damn stubborn to change with the games economy. The less gold in the game means that items will start costing less gold but due to the amount of gold being introduced to the economy it will keep the same value just less will equal more. I just hope that this wont lead to more of the lazy people turning to ebay and gold sellers.

There are three types of people playing this.
1) People who will buy gold online.
2) People who won't buy gold online.
3) And people who might buy gold online.

The people in group (1) will buy gold no matter the cost or the risk to their account. These people are usually refered to as noobs and have more money than brains. Loot scaling did nothing to these people except that it costs them a bit more real life money to get their fake gold.

The people in group (2) won't buy the gold no matter what becuase they either don't care about expensive stuff (perfect weapons, 15k armor, money titles, keys) or they want to earn it. Loot scaling hurt these people the most because they are willing to do the work to get money but now it requires eight times the work.

The last group of people, group (3), probably wouldn't have bought their gold online when it was easily farmable but now when it is hard to farm they are to lazy to do the farming themselves for nice stuff and will now turn to the gold sellers. They care about their account more than group (1) but not enough that the risk of losing their account would be a big deal to them like it would be to group (2).

If ANET wants to minimize the number of buyers, group (1), (sellers won't exist if there isnt people buying) they need to make gold easy to come by, imo. Most of the gamers are group (2), and group (3) is still a small group of people but more than group (1).

Casual farmers ARE hit hard. Try to farm trolls or vermins now. You get like 300 gold if you're very lucky. Casual farmers are the ones why farm big amount of monsters for their crap drops, in order to get some raw cash to spend on skills. They never make alot of cash, cause even after a 100 runs, you only got about 100K.

Hardcore farmers who farm for ecto's/golds/greens, however, got their targets exempt from the loot-scaling... And to clear things out, they lower prices instead of increasing it. You know what happens if millions of the same weapon come in the market in all reqs, damage mods and colours?

Look at the Colossal Scimitar, who went from 1000K to a mere 30K. This happened BECAUSE of farming. If A-net didn't allow this weapon to be farmed, there would only be a few of them in the game, and the prices would still be sky-high.

Ecto's? Because of the loot scaling, the prices skyrocketed to 14K (about 6K more than usually) in a matter of hours. When they were exempt, however, people farmed them more than ever (most other farm spots have been nerfed, after all), and the price is now lowered to 5K.

we have to THANK the hardcore farmers for the low prices, not the lootscaling.

The reason why runes are getting cheaper? Runes with inscriptions now drop in Kryta and Cantha, so way more people farm there now. Also, with the coming of Nightfall, it was 100% sure that you would salvage a rune off an item, and not crafting materials (Unless you choose for that), so that made the price go down, too.

Dyes? Double dye drop weekend, and exempt from loot scaling helps them stay low, too.

Combine this with a horrid trade system, and you get more and more of these things in the market. More going in than out. And that is what is lowering the prices. If these items weren't exempt or farmed, the prices would sky-rocket.


All the 'targets' like golds, greens, dyes, etc are exempt from loot scaling, and therefore are more common. The 'target' of the casual farmer/casual gamer has been nerfed, however. And that, gentlemen, is what the lootscaling is.

So here is a big 'thank you' to all the farmers bringing down the prices on traders. Too bad I can't buy it cause I'm a casual gamer, and my ways of making cash have been killed.

Are lockpicks exempt from loot scaling? Otherwise i've been making it fine by selling greens and tomes.

I've been playing since last August and until very recently I was completely unaffected by the various nerfs(the SR nerfs hit me hard) because I'm primarily a PvE player. Of all the recent changes the loot scale completely devastated me. I like to run around and explore and do quests and despite A-Nets assurances that I can do that and make money I can barely stay afloat. I've been pushing on in all the campaigns so I can cap all the skills I really want/need but that costs money. I have 9 characters and only 3 of them are at 20. Once my other toons get to 20 they'll need max armor and at least 1 sup rune. Due to the decreased material drops(Cantha seems to be exempt for this...I always get tons of Silk and Cloth from there) I'm forced to buy from the traders and paying 100g-250g per item, in the case of rare materials, makes getting max armor tedious and more expensive than before the loot scale. I don't care about being rich in-game. I just want to be able to get the skills I want and be well equipped(meaning the right equipment and max armor) without beggering myself.

I believe a lot of people are overreacting about loot-scaling.
None of my friends have any complaints about it and the forums keep getting spammed about it. I can't believe someone is THAT poor all the time that he can't buy his skills or 1.5K armor.

I spoke with one of my guildies yesterday.
He's been hit hard, but he just don't mention it in guild chat and he's not a forum member, so you won't hear him here.

On the armor:
I vanquished 2 areas today on Elona starter island (the south-west east islands) and I doubt that would have gotten me the 7.5K that I would need for max armor. That's playing Hard Mode, killing 200+ enemies in each area.
This has nothing to do with lootscaling, I was playing with a full H&H team.
It does say something on income gained by playing the game.
I'm used to this gold/hour rate, so no problem here.

However, when casual farming players are set back to this kind of income, they will cry out loud. They were used to make 1K in a couple of minutes.
Many of them probably have scaled their spending to this income rate, so they need to cut that back a lot. If they don't, cash is going down fast, leaving them with no gold for skills and armor. And then getting gold for armor or skills takes a long time.

It's not like that. It's that, that stuff is way more expensive now then it was ever. It used to be that a set of 1.5k armor was nothing to me and I would even give some of my close friends the funds for a set if they asked. But now, it's just hard to make the gold to get it. I have tons of characters so it is tough to supply for all of them, even though I have a set of 15k armor on one char, and 1.5k on 5 others. I used to be rich, so it's not like everyone who is complaining is poor.

The argument here is simple.

The less gold that one can get means less gold one can spend..

the argument about 1.5k armour? that times 5 pieces...7.5k...plus the requires materials...that if loot drops is scaled that people dont get as much of. so in turn getting max armour becomes difficult.

15k armour pretty much is out of my reach anytime soon.

Then if i want to participate in various things in game Im asked to have certain skills by the groups I try to join.....there is another 1k each skill.

the loot scaling hurts more than the economy. it hurts only the people that play the game with out using bots or exploiting. it only hurts honest people.

[QUOTE]wrong again as you are confused over the difference between inscriptions/mods/runes.

here is when the runes started getting much cheaper way before Nightfall or even Factions


http://www.guildwars.com/support/gam...ve-2005-06.php
and this is simply fascinating

would you mind telling me what those woes you mention are?

i am actually interested seriously what woes you think i have

Loot scaling is just another instance of anet killing the casual player/farmer and doing absolutely jack shit to the bots. They're too stupid to admit they were wrong and remove it, so the economy is going to stay RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up and casual players will not be able to make any money. GG anet.

How does loot scaling hurt the casual player exactly? A.Net has
1. Increased the value of gold by reducing the income of farmers
2. A.Net did this in a way that does not touch a casual players income (a group of 8 still gets the same drops as before loot scaling)
3. A.Net increased the supply of Rare items on the market by exempting them from loot scaling.

To me it looks like the ability of the casual player to buy something in Guildwars has gone up, not down.

If you are a farmer then yes, your buying power went down. The fact that A.Net would reduce your buying power to help out the casual player really doesn't surprise me. The casual player is the intended audience of Guildwars last I heard.

Finally, I don't believe that A.Net really expected loot scaling to do much to stop bots. I think if A.Net wanted to stop bots they would have done something along the lines of replacing the easily farmed mobs in certain zones with tougher ones. There is a precedent for that in Kepkhet and her brood moving into Prophet's Path to replace the easily farmed griffins there.

i am not spending 1 single gold coin other then farmin it fow entrence is like 1k so i play like getting 1.5k every 15 miniute(2.5k ever 15 minute 1k is fee) a-nets goal IS COMPLEATELY DIFFERENT THEN STOPIN BOTS. If it was they would have ban them(easy they would pm them and talk something bots cant answer)

I believe Gaile said that it was to stop bots(correct me if I'm wrong).

Cost of skills before 1k, Cost of skills after 1k. Cost of armour before 1k, Cost of armour after 1k. Cost of keys before 600g, cost of keys after 600g. Cost of common materials before 14-20g each, cost of common materials after 14-20g each. Cost of weapons/offhands before 5k, cost of weapons/offhands after 5k. Cost of id kits before 100g, cost of id kits after 100g. Cost of salvage kits before 400g, cost of salvage kits after 400g. Need I go on?

Looks like the value of gold is exactly like it was before the nerf.

Blatantly false. Most casual players needed to farm to afford basic gold sinks like skills and keys before the loot nerf. Most 8 person "adventuring sessions" end up losing 1-3k when you factor in the cost keys and buying new skills for the session. Every casual player I know (myself included) did the "low end farms" like vermin and spiders at least once a week, just to keep their bank balances above 0 - these runs have been the hardest hit by the nerf due to the very low rate of unscaled drops you get from them.

Rare items are wants, not needs. Their loot scaling cost doesn't affect your ability to play the game.

The price of every essential item stayed the same, but the ability of the casual player to make the required money to get them has plumetted. The cost of a shiny gold sword is totally irrelevent when a casual player cannot even afford to buy the skills they want!

The point is that they haven't helped the casual player buy anything that they actually need to buy!!!! They're even further out of reach now than ever before!

Spend an hour in Granite Citadel and then tell me that the power of farmers has decreased. Oh it has...but not by much. Farmers still make 8 times more than casual players after all.

How can people possibly believe that casual player's financial situations are any easier than before loot scaling? The prices of max armor didn't change much when all the Tyrian and Canthan armor was made inscribable. In most cases the price was only knocked down 500g. Which is 2500g in savings, in most cases, that the casual player can use to buy their sup runes, right? Well now that Tyrian and Cathan armor lost all their inherent characteristics you have to buy the corresponding insignia to get the old mods. This can be extremely expensive when you need something like a Bloodstained or Radiant insignia. After that there are your sup runes. Most are ridiculously inexpensive but some are beyond what the casual player can afford(i.e. Rune of Sup. Vigor). Once your armor is all done, what about weapons? I generally get max collector weapons because they're good and they don't cost any money. But you can't mod them and you may need something different. Having bad equipment makes playing difficult and decidingly unfun. Basic good weapons run about 3.5-5k. I'm talking about equipment that will do the job, not stuff with flashy skins or maxed out mods. After you get your weapons in order you need to get the right skills. 1k per skill isn't that bad but its terribly inconvinient at times. All this happens before you even zone out.

I think some people are misunderstanding what casual farming was before the nerf. Sure, some people did casually farm with a full team of 8. But the majority farmed solo or with a small party. Yes, you can be a casual farmer and farm solo. I farmed Vermin with just heroes and made out just fine after only 2-4 runs. Not rich but able to afford what I need and put a little in savings. Now a Vermin run would COST me money rather than turn a profit. Forget about my Insect run in Arjok Ward.

I don't know why...but I blame Hard Mode for everything. Including the Xunlai labor crisis. :P

Personally, i think i love loot scaling and HM now, Because it brought prices down to be affordable. I was tired of paying 11 Freaking K just for a black dye, Now its 6k-ish. Thank god for that. Ecto is now 5k, makes it so much more affordable to get fow armor now, by all means i wish the economy of this game would crash even more because thats whats really making it fun, I can still make 1k + gold items to sell in 10 minutes? Say i get 1k off just loot in 10 minutes, then any additional gold items to sell unid for 1k, money has come in fast fast fast for me this way, Had no problem with making money.

[QUOTE=Loviatar] By simple going back through all your posts is more than enough to show it.

Sorry but your another wrong person who thinks loot scalling helped. It was the exemptions to loot scaling that brought the prices down. Dont believe me just remember the first 12 hours of loot scaling before Anerf added the exemptions.

Seems we need a better definition of the casual player.
Because when I consider the casual player to be someone that PuGs/Guilds and H&Hs through the game with full team and you consider the casual player to be something else, we are never going to agree on this.

I've tried finding out in the guild what people consider a casual player, but it's hard to define.

Skills are a one time investment on each character and there are not that many different 'wanted' builds. It can turn out expensive in the long run (about 1100K when you want all skills on one character).
I doubt you need that many skills unlocked.
I'm saving for my last set of Elites for my final title, so I know how expensive skills are.
But that's just a matter of saving each and every piece of gold you get to achieve the goal.
When you need skills for PvP, consider killing a PvE character and making a PvP character. I did this and it saves a LOT of gold.

Keys are a choice. You don't need them and I only use those that drop for me. Low-ends go to merch without even thinking, because they don't add to title. That's an other 'buyable' title, aka gold-drain.
I use Lockpicks, but those only in specific areas (because I want better looking weapons on my heroes).